[laxin]

Originally Posted by Hobbes3259

Yes...I'm naming 4th and 5th stringers.l.that are Starting.

Kind of the point.

Hill was drafted to complement Holmes,
Holmes got hurt.

Then Keller,Then Hill..the rookie.


You are blaming the QB? Did you just take up the sport, or have you lost reason?

They arent starting though... They hardly play. Im not sure how your reading comprehension is, so Ill say this again "Rueland is a blocking TE, he has 10 receptions. Gilliard was on the team for like 3 weeks. Gates is the only one that has seen any kind of significant action in the passing game, yet has only caught 16 passes." If you want to consider that starting, then go ahead... Whatever makes you comfortable.

Also, I dont know how well you know this sport, but it doesnt take the talent around a QB to see that Sanchez is extremely fundamentally flawed.

[Hobbes3259]

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

On the coaching point, a lot of these guys want nothing to do with it because as more than a few ex NFL coaches who've turned broadcasters have said in their own words....they're never wrong as broadcasters and they can sleep at night without being second guessed unlike the coaching profession.

Also to be fair to Gannon, Dilfer just happened to be the QB of arguably the greatest one year defense in NFL history.

Journeyman or not, Gannon played the position at a way higher level than Dilfer ever could.

Yes but barely higher than Sanchez.

Till he got the right coach.

An honest answer from Gannon would be " I sat on the bench for several year, then played for several more before I got it...Sanchez is even younger than I was"

But Gannon is a douchebag. He was in the league and on his fourth team, before he became a productive player.

[Hobbes3259]

Originally Posted by laxin

They arent starting though... They hardly play. Im not sure how your reading comprehension is, so Ill say this again "Rueland is a blocking TE, he has 10 receptions. Gilliard was on the team for like 3 weeks. Gates is the only one that has seen any kind of significant action in the passing game, yet has only caught 16 passes." If you want to consider that starting, then go ahead... Whatever makes you comfortable.

Also, I dont know how well you know this sport, but it doesnt take the talent around a QB to see that Sanchez is extremely fundamentally flawed.

Of corse he is.
That's not the point.

The team was constructed to have Holmes at the Z, Keller at the Y, and the rookie Hill at the X, with Kerley in the slot.


Holmes went down immediately.

Keller and Hill, played how many games out of 32?

Kerley went from the slot to the Z.

Who is the Y in this equation? Cumberland came on late, but he was not the "y".

And at the X, we're talking Gilyard and Gates until Edwards shows up.

Reading comprehension.....?

Try ESPN

With the addition of Braylon Edwards, the Jets now have seven receivers on their active roster. The other six receivers combined haven't had nearly the production that Braylon Edwards has had in his career. In fact, Braylon Edwards had more receiving touchdowns in 2007 (16) than the other six Jets receivers have combined in their careers (15). Chaz Schilens: 98, 1160, 9 Jeremy Kerley: 81, 1042, 3 Stephen Hill: 21, 252, 3 Clyde Gates: 15, 178, 0 Mardy Gilyard: 8, 78, 0 Jordan White: 0, 0, 0

Yeah... QB is your problem this year.

[laxin]

Originally Posted by Hobbes3259

Of corse he is.
That's not the point.

The team was constructed to have Holmes at the Z, Keller at the Y, and the rookie Hill at the X, with Kerley in the slot.


Holmes went down immediately.

Keller and Hill, played how many games out of 32?

Kerley went from the slot to the Z.

Who is the Y in this equation? Cumberland came on late, but he was not the "y".

And at the X, we're talking Gilyard and Gates until Edwards shows up.

Reading comprehension.....?

Gates has never been above WR 4. When Holmes went down it was Kerley, Hill, Schillens. Right when Hill went down they brought in Edwards. Rueland has never been more than a blocking TE. You think by just naming these names you are making a point... Meanwhile you are just trying to come up with excuses.

Yes, the receiving core is shit and has no depth (lies square on Tanny's shoulders), but Sanchez has been shit all season long, especially from a fundamental standpoint.

I will not argue that injuries hurt the offense, but Sanchez is a huge part of the problem here despite who he's throwing to. By naming these players, you aren't really giving justification for Sanchez's horrible play, because his problems stem far beyond that of who's around him.



Try watching the games.

Sanchez is fundamentally flawed. Im not sure how else to put it. Its quite simple actually.

[Hobbes3259]

Originally Posted by laxin

Gates has never been above WR 4. When Holmes went down it was Kerley, Hill, Schillens. Right when Hill went down they brought in Edwards. Rueland has never been more than a blocking TE. You think by just naming these names you are making a point... Meanwhile you are just trying to come up with excuses.

Yes, the receiving core is shit and has no depth (lies square on Tanny's shoulders), but Sanchez has been shit all season long, especially from a fundamental standpoint.

I will not argue that injuries hurt the offense, but Sanchez is a huge part of the problem here despite who he's throwing to. By naming these players, you aren't really giving justification for Sanchez's horrible play, because his problems stem far beyond that of who's around him.



Try watching the games.

Sanchez is fundamentally flawed. Im not sure how else to put it. Its quite simple actually.

I said he was, but you are the one not watching the games.

Schillens as roughly 40 targets to Gates 35.

And Schillens was brought into camp.

The X is the guy that stretches your field, when he sucks....and your Z is replaced by your slot guy when the offense was set up to key off the Z (Holmes).... You cannot make a rational argument that the QB is the issue, when you've got A rookie,Schillens,and Gates at the X.

And your best offensive player...lis already gone.


That defies reason.

Ps. The Jets signed Edwards, after Hill injured his knee. But he only played in 11 games due to Hammy issues, and had roughly as many targets as Schillens.

[laxin]

Originally Posted by Hobbes3259

I said he was, but you are the one not watching the games.

Schillens as roughly 40 targets to Gates 35.

And Schillens was brought into camp.

The X is the guy that stretches your field, when he sucks....and your Z is replaced by your slot guy when the offense was set up to key off the Z (Holmes).... You cannot make a rational argument that the QB is the issue, when you've got A rookie,Schillens,and Gates at the X.

And your best offensive player...lis already gone.


That defies reason.

Its easy to make a rational argument that QB is an issue. Its not THE only issue, but it sure as hell is one of them. God, how thick is your skull that you cant realize that your precious Sanchez is a major problem??? Why is it so hard to think that there could be multiple reasons for why this offense is truly hard to watch?

Your rational for him being benched is that they are "saving him" so he doesnt get hurt... I will no longer be responding to your incompetence, because it truly is a waste of time. If you honestly believe that Sanchez is on the bench so that the Jets protect their future investment, then you are truly mistaken. He's on the bench because he sucks. Its as simple as that. He does not give us the best chance to win (you know, because of all his turnovers- which have you explained why he is triple pumping to the receiver he is going to throw to? Let me guess, its the receivers fault?).

How about him being benched during the Cardinals game? Im sure they were really protecting his ass there...

Goodbye.

[94Abraham]

Originally Posted by laxin

Its easy to make a rational argument that QB is an issue. Its not THE only issue, but it sure as hell is one of them. God, how thick is your skull that you cant realize that your precious Sanchez is a major problem??? Why is it so hard to think that there could be multiple reasons for why this offense is truly hard to watch?

Your rational for him being benched is that they are "saving him" so he doesnt get hurt... I will no longer be responding to your incompetence, because it truly is a waste of time. If you honestly believe that Sanchez is on the bench so that the Jets protect their future investment, then you are truly mistaken. He's on the bench because he sucks. Its as simple as that. He does not give us the best chance to win (you know, because of all his turnovers- which have you explained why he is triple pumping to the receiver he is going to throw to? Let me guess, its the receivers fault?).

How about him being benched during the Cardinals game? Im sure they were really protecting his ass there...

Goodbye.

Theres no reasoning with half of these idiotic Sanchez fans on this board. They use the receiver excuse this year but when he had a healthy Holmes and Edwards and Keller he was still a bottom of the league QB. You're wasting your time with them. Just hope they all go cheer for the next CFL team Mark plays on because no one in their right mind is dumb enough sign that piece of trash....

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by Murrell2878

None of that has to do with not having weapons? Are you sure about that? I don't think you have a clue about the QB position or you wouldn't have made that asinine comment. Maybe you're just butt hurt because your boy toy was never given a chance here. Yeah, that's probably it.

Then why don't you explain how "not having any weapons" led Sanchez to throw the INT in the Seattle game when he had 2 WIDE OPEN receivers ? When he pumped fake twice to Kerley and then, when it was too late, threw to him and was picked off ?

What part of that play are you going to try and blame on lack of weapons ?

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by raortega3

I am going to get ragged for being a Sanchez homer when I am not, more of a "this team is hot garbage." Type... But, how many if those int's are due to a QB making a mistake, and how many are due to wrong routes, how many are due to him feeling the need to make a play instead of taking a sack or throwing it away, etc.?

My thing being - every QB throws picks. When your team sucks donkey balls like the NYJ's (Kerley being #1 type suck), you can say, "throw it here, throw it there, take the sack, throw it away..." All you want but after some time - it is time to make a play. I remember when people would harp on him for getting sacked, saying he couldn't feel the pressure. Once he stopped taking sacks and tried to make plays, people got pissed that he was forcing passes and getting picked or fumbling. McElroy gets sacked 11 times and he is a breath of fresh air.

Seriously though - this team is, talent wise, pathetic. Frenbar mentioned Gronk and other top talents helping any team. When, at any time during Sanchez's tenure as a NYJ did he have top offensive talent? He has had two old average skilled RB's and now one slow as hell punisher. In 2009 the NYJ's jus happened to have a good ol. He has never had anyone as skilled as Gronk or Welker. Holmes is not as great as Tanny paid him to be. The steelers let him go for peanuts.

People are pissed that Sanchez has never developed as a QB. My response to that is: this team has progressively deteriorated to the point of disgrace. We send our backup QB who never lost a game in college or HS or something like that and he gets sacked 11 times - and people are happy. That, if anything, is a sign of the times.

In order of preference, I'd expect a QB to try and throw the ball away if he's pressured and no one is open. IF he can't do that, then take the sack while protecting the ball.

Of course, somewhere in there is escape/avoid the pressure, again, while protecting the ball.

What I can't excuse or tolerate is a QB deciding that he wants to avoid pressure, so instead, he decides to throw the ball into triple coverage.

As for sacks, you know what happens when you get sacked on 1st down ? You are left with 3 more downs to try and move the chains. When you get sacked on 2nd down, you still have 2 more down to try and move the chains. When sacked on third down, you still have 1 down left to punt the ball and change the field position for the other team.

Do I like it when the QB gets sacked ? Nope. But I'd much prefer that he takes a sack and holds onto the ball, than throwing what could be a back breaking interception.


With McElroy specifically, people naturally have a different set of expectations than they do with Sanchez. It's just like with most people in their day to day jobs, you expect more from someone with "experience" than you do from someone else who's on their first week in a new job.

People are happy/content with McElroy because he didn't commit boneheaded mistakes.

[Jetfanmack]

Sanchez isn't a great quarterback when he's confident and all is going well, but he had no confidence this season, either in himself or in his receivers.

I feel a lot of his mistakes came from not throwing before receivers are open and anticipating. He doesn't trust his receivers to make the right cuts. He waits until receivers are open, then throws the ball, and by that point, the defenders can make a play on the ball.

[Acad23]

Originally Posted by Jetfanmack

I feel a lot of his mistakes came from not throwing before receivers are open and anticipating. He doesn't trust his receivers to make the right cuts. He waits until receivers are open, then throws the ball, and by that point, the defenders can make a play on the ball.

He's definitely late on a lot of throws. What's perplexing to me is his inability to make simple throws...like screens and check downs. He also misses wide open receivers. His mechanics are awful.

There's really nothing that he does well any longer. If he stays a Jet, I hope he uses the off season to rebuild his game from the ground up.

[azhar80]

Originally Posted by Jetfanmack

Sanchez isn't a great quarterback when he's confident and all is going well, but he had no confidence this season, either in himself or in his receivers.

I feel a lot of his mistakes came from not throwing before receivers are open and anticipating. He doesn't trust his receivers to make the right cuts. He waits until receivers are open, then throws the ball, and by that point, the defenders can make a play on the ball.

Your second paragraph is basically what Braylon said also.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Jetfanmack

Sanchez isn't a great quarterback when he's confident and all is going well, but he had no confidence this season, either in himself or in his receivers.

I feel a lot of his mistakes came from not throwing before receivers are open and anticipating. He doesn't trust his receivers to make the right cuts. He waits until receivers are open, then throws the ball, and by that point, the defenders can make a play on the ball.

anyone watching the receivers understands why he doesn't trust them.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Then why don't you explain how "not having any weapons" led Sanchez to throw the INT in the Seattle game when he had 2 WIDE OPEN receivers ? When he pumped fake twice to Kerley and then, when it was too late, threw to him and was picked off ?

What part of that play are you going to try and blame on lack of weapons ?

It's SOOOO Fucking obvious that Sanchez did not trust his receivers to be where they were supposed to be.

[lakersmetsjets49ers]

I barely realized this thread is 237 pages lmao

Between now and happens this offseason I'm sure the next 50 pages will go as follows

People defending Sanchez, pointing out flawed o line and receivers

People calling them Sanchez loyalists or fan boys and saying Sanchez sucks

The people defending Sanchez calling the people saying he sucks Sanchez haters

Some people viewing him from a middle ground point of view, he's part of the problem but not the whole problem

Mixed in with some fire sporano, and Tanny and bring in norv turner talk.

All this will be rehashed over and over again for the next few months.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by alleycat9

theres no reason to be a jerk to the guy just because you disagree.

and i think YOU are completely wrong. absolutely and completely incorrect.

as a matter of fact i cant even fathom in all of the worlds how you would think that you might even possibly be correct. you just couldnt be more wrong.

and on top of it you just had to throw your little tebow jab in there.

guess what i dont like tebow and your still wrong.

What am I wrong about? Was I somehow mistaken and Sanchez was surrounded by superb talented weapons?

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by laxin

A good amount of it lies on Sanchez. Not saying that our receiving core is good (because its not obviously), but his mechanics, ability to read a defense, ability to hit a receiver in stride, accuracy ect has all regressed since 2010 to where he is a bottom 3 QB in the league.

Megatron could go out there and Sanchez would still have a hard time completing passes simply because he can not deliver an accurate ball on time- never in stride. His footwork, ability to read a defense, arm strength, pocket presence, accuracy ect has all decreased tremendously since 2010. That has little to do with who he's throwing to.

No Im sure the lack of talent and coaching on the offense has scarred Sanchez, but right now, Im not sure who is catching the ball matters as much as his regression in terms of fundamentals.

He must work on his footwork (I made a comment about that awhile back) there's no doubt about it. And he has some things he must work on (arm strength not being one of them however). But it's so obvious that having sub-par players around him who he could not trust affected him. If you are not positive your receiver is running the right route or that he can get separation it's going to slow your decision making process. He looked so much better throwing to Braylon at the beginning of the Titans game, but he was so mentally fucked that when he threw that first INT he self-destructed / panicked.

I don't know if he can ever come back from this. But I know that if he can be surrounded by better receivers - who he can trust, then there is a chance he can come back from this.

Either way, we're financially tied with him and this QB market isn't really going to give us a better option.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by 94Abraham

Theres no reasoning with half of these idiotic Sanchez fans on this board. They use the receiver excuse this year but when he had a healthy Holmes and Edwards and Keller he was still a bottom of the league QB. You're wasting your time with them. Just hope they all go cheer for the next CFL team Mark plays on because no one in their right mind is dumb enough sign that piece of trash....

he was not a bottom of the league passer when he had Keller, Edwards and HOlmes. He led the Jets to many come from behind wins and was a big reason we won 11 games in 2010. The Jets should have continued to build on that, but instead started tearing it down by letting Edwards and Cotchery go and bringing in Plax (who couldn't get any separation) and Mason who was traded mid-season. I will always say that this thing would have been different if the Jets kept Edwards instead of Holmes.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by Acad23

He's definitely late on a lot of throws. What's perplexing to me is his inability to make simple throws...like screens and check downs. He also misses wide open receivers. His mechanics are awful.

There's really nothing that he does well any longer. If he stays a Jet, I hope he uses the off season to rebuild his game from the ground up.

He's going to need a lot of work this off-season. Hopefully we bring in a QB minded OC this offseason and we get him in early to begin re-working Sanchez. He can be saved, but it'll take a lot of work. I don't see us as having any other option.

[stevepokal]

i just think its hilarious that a person claiming that braylon was a weapon for mark sanchez this year told somebody to 'actually watch the games'....

or claiming that guys like gates reuland and gillyard werent a major part of the offense this season...

mark has lost the jets a ton of games this year and last year, but hes also won quite a few more. that is all hearsay. when looking at marks play, you can see two obvious flaws. decision making and mechanics. the thing is, those are mental and not physical problems. mark needs to see a psychologist and get his shit together. if he can shake the troubles of the last 2 seasons and stop being so damn nervous two things will happen. his footwork will clean up, leading to more accurate throws, and he wont be constantly second guessing himself. he needs to get back into playing the game rather than worrying about how well he is actually playing.

either way, mark didnt start to play poorly this season until after holmes went down. he became shit after the loss in foxboro. i dont think he ever fully recovered from fumbling that one away.