[Backup QB]

Originally Posted by phaytal

My post had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with Tebow constantly putting himself in the spotlight.

You're an idiot.

He can't avoid the spotlight. I seriously doubt he wants your and CC's attention. But here you are... posting everyday...

... for apparently no reason at all...

... oh wait, it's a secret. I forgot.

[JFjets]

Originally Posted by phaytal

My post had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with Tebow constantly putting himself in the spotlight.

You're an idiot.

You have a phaytal case of dishonesty.

[phaytal]

Originally Posted by Backup QB

He can't avoid the spotlight. I seriously doubt he wants your and CC's attention. But here you are... posting everyday...

... for apparently no reason at all...

... oh wait, it's a secret. I forgot.

I'm not saying he can avoid the spotlight. What I am saying is that he brought it on himself. That's all.

And yep, here I am. Your tears are delicious.

[phaytal]

Originally Posted by JFjets

You have a phaytal case of dishonesty.

You have an uncanny case of reading what you want to read, not what someone wrote. But yeah, I can totally see how saying Tebow doing an anti-abortion ad is a religious post.

I'm sorry if I offended your fragile christian sensibilities.

[displacedfan]

Originally Posted by JFjets

No more unlikely than any other NFL QB improving his completion percentage with experience and time playing. See my list on the other thread of Hall of Fame QB's who improved their completion % anywhere from 5-15%+ over the course of their careers, in order to become one of the best of the best.



Please, do tell us why this is an incorrect sentiment that we aren't allowed to have with regards to those 2 QB's, or any other young QB, including Tebow? Please explain just exactly why Tebow's low completion % as a young NFL QB can't figure into the same category as Elway's low completion % and Young's low completion % as young QB's. I'll be waiting.



Oh yeah, that reminds me, I'm still waiting for you to name the last NFL team with a 35% PASS/65% RUN ratio that was a prolific, high-scoring offense. Having a wee bit of trouble finding one? Why does it not surprise me that you haven't even acknowledged this question of mine and furthermore why does it not surprise me that you haven't acknowledged that that run/pass ratio might just have an eensy, weensy little bit to do with why many of the games were low-scoring affairs?



Will wonders never cease. An admission of wrong. Don't worry, I won't get used to it.



Since Tebow declared for the draft, have you ever, at any time since then, felt like many of his detractors didn't want him to even have a chance to show he could play QB in the NFL? Have you ever seen such an accomplished player at his position in college, so vilified before he was even selected in the draft or had stepped on an NFL field for the first time? Do you know why that is? Because so many of his detractors DIDN'T want him to even have a chance to show he could play QB in the NFL! Man, it is not about football. I've said it 1,000 times if I've said it once. It's not about football. It's about Tebow the person/Christian, not Tebow the QB. Sure, a lot of them couch their criticism in football terms, but many of his detractors have been kind enough to let their guard slip and say something proving that this is exactly the case. There are a whole lotta' anti-Christian bigots in America, and anti-Christian bigotry is the driving force now, and always has been, behind the effort to drum Tebow out of the league. It's the reason he gets judged by a completely different standard than other young NFL QB's.

Uh just to clarify, I have no problem with is religion, I just think he didn't play very well and no NFL team will take the risk to build a system that can benefit the way he plays currently.

Also that ignores the fact that many players are religious and they often cut to the players praying in a circle after game. So why is Tebow singled out as the religious player and not the many other players?

But in general, I think you missed the boat on this one. The main reasons
Tebow isn't loved by everyone is

1) Media attention. The biggest sports media people gave him all the credit for the wins last year. When you have that thrown in your face constantly, you don't want it in your face. ESPN cut out of their programming to show a press conference for a backup QB. People got tired of that. Tied into this, Skip Bayless the troll doesn't help.

Is it a wonder that everyone hates the Jets before Tebow got here? The Jets went 8-8 last year and arguably got more media attention than playoff teams like the Bengals, Texans, etc.

Is it a wonder most of the country dislikes Red Sox vs Yankees? In fact you could take Red Sox vs Yankees series as a nice parallel. Overly hyped, heard about end on end before the games are played. REplayed over and over after the games are played. The game are usually ugly to watch, but entertaining. Very similar to Tebow.

If you get covered too much, especially in sports, most people tend to dislike it. When you get covered too much, and you are overhyped, people tend to dislike it even more. When flukey things happen, you are covered too much, and you get all the credit, people tend to dislike it.

It's the way it works. But as much as this weighs down on Tebow, he "chose" New York which would only add on. Now he's seen how fast the NY media can flip and how uhhh vicious I guess NY fans and media are. They want immediate results. You don't got it, get out.

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by phaytal

You have an uncanny case of reading what you want to read, not what someone wrote. But yeah, I can totally see how saying Tebow doing an anti-abortion ad is a religious post.

I'm sorry if I offended your fragile christian sensibilities.

Don't feel bad. I had someone jump my shit yesterday for saying the word..... (brace for it....) ...FART.

Asked why another team with a bad QB roster would fart around with Tebow next offseason when there will be better options through the draft or free agency... dude lost ALL attention span.

[JFjets]

Originally Posted by phaytal

You have an uncanny case of reading what you want to read, not what someone wrote. But yeah, I can totally see how saying Tebow doing an anti-abortion ad is a religious post.

I'm sorry if I offended your fragile christian sensibilities.

You just can't help yourself, can you? That's okay, you're just piling more wood on top of the bonfire that is your obvious raging anti-Christian bigotry. The more obnoxious you are about it, the easier it is for the average person to see.

Originally Posted by displacedfan

So why is Tebow singled out as the religious player and not the many other players?

If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand. And I never said everyone disliked him because of his faith. Heck, there are plenty of Seminoles who can't stand him largely because of the drubbing he gave them for several years while a Gator. You certainly don't come across as the raging and fanatical bigot like phaytal and certainly many others that are members of TGG forums, but I don't doubt that even your "football" opinion on Tebow may have been influenced somewhat - perhaps unconsciously - by the overwhelming din of anti-Tebow hate that stems largely from issues relating to Tebow the person, not Tebow the QB.

Originally Posted by Concerned_Citizen

Don't feel bad. I had someone jump my shit yesterday for saying the word..... (brace for it....) ...FART.

Asked why another team with a bad QB roster would fart around with Tebow next offseason when there will be better options through the draft or free agency... dude lost ALL attention span.

Hey CC, how you coming on that high-scoring, 35 Pass/65 Run offense? As long as you're around on this forum, I'm going to keep bringing this up to you, so you might as well answer and get it over with, huh?

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by JFjets

If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand.

Yeah, it has to be some sort of a bigotry against Tebow. It can't be because he sucks, yet still gets the kind of attention you'd expect a guy bound for the hall of fame would get.

Originally Posted by JFjets

Hey CC, how you coming on that high-scoring, 35 Pass/65 Run offense? As long as you're around on this forum, I'm going to keep bringing this up to you, so you might as well answer and get it over with, huh?

Much better now that we can take advantage of being multi dimensional and not simply running the ball to compensate a cheap immtitation of a QB's inability to get the ball into the same zip code as a receiver. I see the punter a lot less often now. More scoring, beating teams up rather than barely squeaking by bottom feeder teams on some flukey break... I LOVE IT!!! Fukkin awesome they don't have to limit the playbook for a QB that scares the shit out of them when he throws.

Kinda miss the jump pass though... always good for a laugh.

BTW, how is Tebow's career going? Is he about to prove the naysayers wrong? Has he successfully removed the splinters from his ass from riding the pine all year?

[phaytal]

Originally Posted by JFjets

You just can't help yourself, can you? That's okay, you're just piling more wood on top of the bonfire that is your obvious raging anti-Christian bigotry. The more obnoxious you are about it, the easier it is for the average person to see.

Ahh, the plight of the persecuted. That is a very heavy cross you are bearing JFjets.

[JFjets]

Originally Posted by phaytal

Ahh, the plight of the persecuted. That is a very heavy cross you are bearing JFjets.

Toss another log on the fire.

Originally Posted by Concerned_Citizen

Much better now that we can take advantage of being multi dimensional and not simply running the ball to compensate a cheap immtitation of a QB's inability to get the ball into the same zip code as a receiver. I see the punter a lot less often now. More scoring, beating teams up rather than barely squeaking by bottom feeder teams on some flukey break... I LOVE IT!!! Fukkin awesome they don't have to limit the playbook for a QB that scares the shit out of them when he throws.

Kinda miss the jump pass though... always good for a laugh.

BTW, how is Tebow's career going? Is he about to prove the naysayers wrong? Has he successfully removed the splinters from his ass from riding the pine all year?

Hey, cool writing but I didn't see any mention of the last NFL team with a 35 Pass/65 Run ratio that was also a high-scoring offense. Did I miss it or are you just not man enough to say you've had a heck of a hard time finding one?

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by JFjets

Toss another log on the fire.



Hey, cool writing but I didn't see any mention of the last NFL team with a 35 Pass/65 Run ratio that was also a high-scoring offense. Did I miss it or are you just not man enough to say you've had a heck of a hard time finding one?

Who cares? Not sure what why you are hung up on that to begin with. I'm not the one that brought that up. The Denver offense is productive and it wasn't last year. Among the league leaders in passing, Manning on a nice streak of games where we get more than 300 yards. I can think of ONE glaring reason for that. Couldn't be happier. I still don't think they peaked yet either.

Not sure why you seem to get a tickle up your leg about some run/pass ratio. Broncos are averaging close to 30 points. Much better than the 16 against bottom feeders.

Hmmm .... this year's model or last year's model... tough decision.... NOT. Wonder how many Jet fans would take our offense over a Tebow led one?

[JFjets]

Originally Posted by Concerned_Citizen

Who cares? Not sure what why you are hung up on that to begin with. I'm not the one that brought that up. The Denver offense is productive and it wasn't last year. Among the league leaders in passing, Manning on a nice streak of games where we get more than 300 yards. I can think of ONE glaring reason for that. Couldn't be happier. I still don't think they peaked yet either.

Not sure why you seem to get a tickle up your leg about some run/pass ratio. Broncos are averaging close to 30 points. Much better than the 16 against bottom feeders.

Hmmm .... this year's model or last year's model... tough decision.... NOT. Wonder how many Jet fans would take our offense over a Tebow led one?

There you go with the lying again. You have harped, again and again, on the low-scoring Denver offense last year with Tebow under center, and how if the Denver defense hadn't held a lot of opponents to 15 points or less that Tebow wouldn't have such a good W/L record. I repeat, you have harped on this again, and again, and again, and again. I said it just might have something to do with the fact that an offense that had such a high Run/Pass ratio isn't going to be a high-scoring offense. I challenged you to find me just one other NFL team that had such a high Run/Pass ratio that was also a high-scoring offense. Your response, for days afterwards, is.....crickets. When pressed on it again and again, your response is "Who cares?" Seriously?

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good opinion.

You really are unbelievable.

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by JFjets

There you go with the lying again. You have harped, again and again, on the low-scoring Denver offense last year with Tebow under center, and how if the Denver defense hadn't held a lot of opponents to 15 points or less that Tebow wouldn't have such a good W/L record. I repeat, you have harped on this again, and again, and again, and again.

I remember.

I said it just might have something to do with the fact that an offense that had such a high Run/Pass ratio isn't going to be a high-scoring offense. I challenged you to find me just one other NFL team that had such a high Run/Pass ratio that was also a high-scoring offense. Your response, for days afterwards, is.....crickets. When pressed on it again and again, your response is "Who cares?" Seriously?

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good opinion.

You really are unbelievable.

What lie? I never challenged you on that to begin with, so why would I scour the internet looking for a high flying high scoring 65% running team? Never said there was one and never argued with you that it could be done. There probably ISN'T one. Happy? That reinforces my point that Tebow's game is almost WORTHLESS without a stronger defense to compensate.

Wasn't my point anyway about the low scoring low productive offense. The offense was the way it was because he couldn't throw. made them REALLY one dimensional and easy to stop. Are you really that dense? They chose to run it that way because really, that's all Tebow can do. Sure, he'll hit on a good pass here and there, but THAT is why they ran the ball so damn much. It was either that or a better than 50% chance of NOTHING (based on his completion percentage.)

...and besides. You are pointing out that a run heavy team isn't going to put up a lot of points in this league. Then doesn't that prove Tebow is no good for this pass happy league? Doesn't that reinforce my point on how much more important the defense's role is in winning the game for Tebow? If all you should need is 16 points to win on the back of a good defensive performance... then WHAT is so damn special about Tebow. Any shmuck could fill in and win with 16 points. Orton did, is he special too? They changed their playbook for the one guy who couldn't pass.

[JFjets]

Man, CC, you are really confused. You're arguing in circles and proving that points that you have previously tried to make are actually irrelevant and pointless. You should keep a little better track of things you have said earlier. You tell about as straight and consistent a story as Bill Clinton.

What lie? I never challenged you on that to begin with, so why would I scour the internet looking for a high flying high scoring 65% running team?

The lie that you didn't bring it up, when in fact you have been harping forever on the low-scoring Denver offense under Tebow (as though he was the sole cause) and the idea that if the Denver defense hadn't held teams to 15 points or less, there was no way Tebow could score more points and beat those teams (despite the fact they did score more than 15 points in eight games with Tebow under center).

Never said there was one and never argued with you that it could be done.

So glad you brought that up. If it can't be done and hasn't been done for an NFL team with a 35 Pass/65 Run offense ratio to be a high-scoring offense, then how in the heck could the Broncos have been a high-scoring offense last year with Tebow under center when a 35 Pass/65 Run offensive ratio is the exact ratio they had?!?! And yet, you continually harp on the fact that the Denver offense didn't score more points last year. So, which is it? How could they have a been a high-scoring offense with that run/pass ratio if it's never been done before? If Tebow sucks so badly, as you say, did you really expect him to be able to guide such a run-heavy offense towards being a consistently high-scoring offense, even though when I asked what other NFL teams have ever done that, your very words are "There probably ISN'T one"? Maybe you can see now why you look so silly, criticizing Tebow for not living up to a standard that you admit has probably never been met by any other team, either?

There probably ISN'T one. Happy? That reinforces my point that Tebow's game is almost WORTHLESS without a stronger defense to compensate.

Yes, very happy that you have now admitted that you were blaming Tebow for not accomplishing something that no other NFL team has ever accomplished, either. And contrary to your statement, the only point it reinforces, once again, is that you're holding Tebow to an impossible standard, one that not even the best in the NFL have met or could meet.

Wasn't my point anyway about the low scoring low productive offense. The offense was the way it was because he couldn't throw. made them REALLY one dimensional and easy to stop. Are you really that dense? They chose to run it that way because really, that's all Tebow can do. Sure, he'll hit on a good pass here and there, but THAT is why they ran the ball so damn much. It was either that or a better than 50% chance of NOTHING (based on his completion percentage.)

Except when they gave him the chance to get into a passing rhythm in the 4th quarter and didn't have such a high percentage of throws being downfield bombs, and, voila, he can complete passes. Had 9 completions in a row against the Bears in the 4th quarter. 18-24 in the 4th quarter and OT. He wasn't that good in the 4th quarter of every game, but there were a number of games where his completion % was considerably better in the 4th q/OT than in the first 3 quarters. 57%, 100%, 60%, 66%, 75%. By the way, 52% of Tebow's pass attempts were in the 4th quarter and OT. 52%! How the heck is a guy supposed to get in a comfortable passing rhythm in the first 3 quarters when more than half his pass attempts aren't even until the 4th quarter?

...and besides. You are pointing out that a run heavy team isn't going to put up a lot of points in this league. Then doesn't that prove Tebow is no good for this pass happy league?

Again, so glad you brought this up. The idea that Tebow is a run-first QB, or ever has been a run-first QB, is a bald myth, or lie, whichever you prefer. At Florida, he had 962 pass attempts and 603 rush attempts, a 61% pass -39% run ratio. In the NFL, he has had 353 pass attempts and 165 rush attempts, a 68% pass -32% run ratio. You want to talk about someone who came out of college being much closer to a "run-first" type QB, then let's talk about Cam Newton. At Auburn, he passed 51% of the time and ran 49% of the time.

Doesn't that reinforce my point on how much more important the defense's role is in winning the game for Tebow?

Nope, it doesn't, not a bit. When did the Broncos usually score points the quickest last year? In the 4th quarter and OT in games when they were behind and had to let Tebow throw the ball to move up and down the field quickly. That didn't have a darn thing to do with the defense, it had everything to do with the coaches finally being forced to open the playbook. I give the defense credit for keeping some of those games close so they had a chance to make a 4th quarter comeback, but if the coaches had opened the playbook earlier, it very well may have been unnecessary for them to hold some of those opponents to 15 points or less. Since you are so fond of playing the "if" game (so long as it posits a negative viewpoint about Tebow), let's try on for size the notion of how many points the Broncos offense might have scored last year if they had opened the playbook up in the 1st quarter of every game instead of waiting till the 4th quarter, and had the pass/run ratio just a tad bit closer to 50-50 instead of 35/65, which you yourself have admitted there has probably never been an NFL team with that kind of playcalling that was a high-scoring offense.

They changed their playbook for the one guy who couldn't pass.

Except he showed that when given the chance, he could pass, and could score points quickly.

[chris5533]

From everything I have seen of his career, I don't think tebow is an avg qb. With that said, there is no denying he won games. Really is a shame the jets are so heavily commited to sanchez financially that they are going to keep slamming him down everyones throat. I would love to see tebow play at this point. Which is a complete 180 from anything I would have ever said about him before. I use to laugh watching clips of him, I even lauhlghed when we played them last year. I laughed so much I kind missed the point that he just went on a 99 yard game winning drive. Lol sanchez is awful at this point. The jets should be playing anyone but him. Maybe watching would help him. I feel bad for tebow. We asted a year of his career. On a whole besides a few select players, the jeta orginization is a disgrace. Its back to be embrassed to be a jet fan again. I haven't been ambrassed to be a jet fan since pre parcells. Worst I felt about a jet orginization in a very long time

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by JFjets

Man, CC, you are really confused. You're arguing in circles and proving that points that you have previously tried to make are actually irrelevant and pointless. You should keep a little better track of things you have said earlier. You tell about as straight and consistent a story as Bill Clinton.

Think you're the one that is confused.

I tell you that defense was the reason for almost all of Tebow's wins. because he didn't score
You come back with some run pass ratio thing and ask me how many were high flying and high scoring.
I tell you that they had no choice but to run the ball because Tebow sucked at throwing it.

No confusion there, it all fits.

The lie that you didn't bring it up, when in fact you have been harping forever on the low-scoring Denver offense under Tebow

I never said I didn't bring up Tebow's low scoring. you popped off about me about some run pass ratio thing and challenged me to find a team that was "high flying" when they ran the ball that much.

That challenge made by you missed the boat completely. Are you really so dense that you aren't following my argument?

TRUE, teams don't score much when they run the ball 65% of the time. You are right about that.

ALSO TRUE is they had no choice BUT to run the ball, because more than half of Tebow's throws found the dirt or the tenth row. FACT, less than half of his passes were completed. FACT, most of Denver's drives ended very quickly in part, because they were limited by a shitty quarterback that couldn't throw. THAT is why they had to run the ball and THAT is why they were unproductive because of it. If Tebow were any good with that erratic arm of his, they woudln't have HAD to run the ball 65% of the time.

Hence, the offense was severely limited in production for being one dimensional because the quarterback sucked ass!! Man I'm tired of being right.

Let me know if I need to draw that in crayon for you.

Originally Posted by JFjets

Except he showed that when given the chance, he could pass, and could score points quickly.

Yep, he showed that 46.5% of the time he was given that chance. Failed the other 53.5.

[Backup QB]

Originally Posted by phaytal

I'm not saying he can avoid the spotlight. What I am saying is that he brought it on himself. That's all.

And yep, here I am. Your tears are delicious.

Riiight... probably the most boring interview of any NFL player... the equivalent of Bill Belichick interview-wise, but yet he brought it the spotlight upon himself.

No off-field arrests, no controversial statements. Nothing. He definitely has the spotlight, but it has more to do with the media and people like me and you than it does Tebow.

[JFjets]

Originally Posted by Concerned_Citizen

TRUE, teams don't score much when they run the ball 65% of the time. You are right about that.

ALSO TRUE is they had no choice BUT to run the ball, because more than half of Tebow's throws found the dirt or the tenth row. FACT, less than half of his passes were completed. FACT, most of Denver's drives ended very quickly in part, because they were limited by a shitty quarterback that couldn't throw. THAT is why they had to run the ball and THAT is why they were unproductive because of it. If Tebow were any good with that erratic arm of his, they woudln't have HAD to run the ball 65% of the time.

Sorry, but your version of the facts just isn't supported by the actual facts. The actual facts are that he usually moved the team up and down the field and scored points quickly when the coaches had to let him throw the ball and he was able to get in a passing rhythm, usually in the 4th quarter and OT. You can say "he can't throw the ball" 500 times fast, in a row, if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he did pretty well throwing the ball and scoring points when he needed to and was allowed to get in a passing rhythm with a "spread" type passing attack. Period.

[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by JFjets

Sorry, but your version of the facts just isn't supported by the actual facts. The actual facts are that he usually moved the team up and down the field and scored points quickly when the coaches had to let him throw the ball and he was able to get in a passing rhythm, usually in the 4th quarter and OT. You can say "he can't throw the ball" 500 times fast, in a row, if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he did pretty well throwing the ball and scoring points when he needed to and was allowed to get in a passing rhythm with a "spread" type passing attack. Period.

You realize the coaches saw the same thing you did? The difference is you are interpreting it differently

It continues to amaze me how you guys think that the coaches saw Tebow throwing the ball down the field late in games to win them and then because I guess they wanted to lose games they went back to limiting Tebow.

The reality is that there was no secret agenda. He sucked for 55 minutes of the game. HE did that. So how the hell is a coach supposed to react to a player like that?

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by BeastBeach

You realize the coaches saw the same thing you did? The difference is you are interpreting it differently

It continues to amaze me how you guys think that the coaches saw Tebow throwing the ball down the field late in games to win them and then because I guess they wanted to lose games they went back to limiting Tebow.

The reality is that there was no secret agenda. He sucked for 55 minutes of the game. HE did that. So how the hell is a coach supposed to react to a player like that?

I know how I'd react to it. I'd start the next game in Spread formations with Tebow in the shotgun.

Don't know why Fox and McCoy didn't, other that the fact that Fox is less interested in passing than Rex is.