[Bellows1]

Loyalty for past performance is what got us into the mess we're in now... Over paid, under performing players. Same holds true for coaches and GM's.

[Barcs]

Of course it matters. It would have been great to go further, but its something the Jets have never done before in their history, so I'd have to go with, yes, it's an accomplishment, and yes, you can't fire Rex. 2 good seasons with deep playoff runs and 2 mediocre seasons doesn't warrant firing a coach. Terrible thread BTW. People act like our team had all this mega elite talent in 09 and 10. We had more talent yes, but it wasn't like we went from elite to crap. We went from good to mediocre as we're rebuilding and replacing a lot of seasoned old vets with young talent. It's a transitional period at a lot of positions this year not to mention the injuries to our best players.

[LeonNYJ]

Originally Posted by JetBlue

not a single person has said they are okay with being mediocre the past couple of seasons simply because we had the joy of back to back AFCCG appearances.

people are saying that if Rex, or Sanchez or whoever were good enough to get us there before, they are good enough to get us there again. there are certainly flaws in that argument if you explore those appearances deeper (there is more validation for Rex's ability in them than Sanchez's), but the flaw isn't that it means people are satisfied with this year simply because of those years.

As you say there are flaws to that argument but people keep repeating it. Most people will acknowledge that Rex is a good coach. The problem is that he seems to be stubborn and almost arrogant to a fault. Some will say he's loyal to a fault, but I don't know if it's that or if he just is too arrogant to acknowledge that he was wrong/failed. Of course none of us see what goes on behind the scenes but listening to him after games has become ridiculous and frustrating. He seems delusional. Also the decline in talent since he has come is alarming. Of course Tanny is also to blame, but let's also remember that Tanny was here when those teams were built during those two years (Mangini era). These are the reasons why some people want Rex gone.

Also many feel that you can't get rid of Tanny and keep Rex. Of course that's not necessarily true, but you would assume that any new GM would want to pick his own coach. So if Rex isn't that guy then he wouldn't stick around.

I won't even get started on Sanchez.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FOURTHANDLONG

Not winning the AFC Championship just made us the biggest losers in the AFC with a worst draft choice than the last place team. We need a Championship mentality like the Giants, Pats and Steelers. Champions or BUST!

again, the difference btw us losing in Pitt and NYG winning in SF was a call that could have been called incomplete was called a fumble for a TD return in our game and a non fumble that should have been called a fumble was whistled deadin in SF. That had nothing to do w/ "winning mentality".

[FOURTHANDLONG]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

again, the difference btw us losing in Pitt and NYG winning in SF was a call that could have been called incomplete was called a fumble for a TD return in our game and a non fumble that should have been called a fumble was whistled deadin in SF. That had nothing to do w/ "winning mentality".

If Pitt or the Giants would have lost those games their team or fan base would not have considered it a good season. They expect to win the big ones!

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by alleycat9

but rex was winning with another guys players. this is his team that we see today.

and you always hear about hte brash talkative ones firing everyone up at first but then they grow immune to it and it begins to become more of a problem than a positive. i am not sure if that is happening but we have ex players calling our decision makers idiots, we have coaches saying that they are being forced to play guys that they dont want to play we have the weekly catastrophe of leaks and rumors and outright shit talking in the locker room.

i dont know if rex can fix it at this point. i think he is too far gone. i am very confident that a team of rex and tanny CANT procure talent and that tanny needs to finally go away. which means in all probability rex will also.

Fair points but a couple things to keep in mind..

1. It's fashionable to say it's Rex's players..or Mangini's players..but other than input the personnel of this organization falls on Tannenbaum/Bradway.Nobody else.

2. The Jets window for contention was 2008 to 2010. They had some minor holes..but for the most part they fielded an extremely talented, complete team. Jets gambled away SOME long term for the short term to try & get over the top. It didn't work. Granted, they haven't come out & admitted it to the public..but this current team IS in somewhat of a rebuilding project. So if you want to say that Rex has "his guys" now..fine..but there are obvious holes on this team who don't exactly represent Rex's handpicked talent.

3. No doubt the Jets need to get the PR situation resolved. But a large portion of it is a result of losing. The jets go back to winning & you'll see all those former players aligning themselves as Rex lovers/apologists. That's just the way the sports media world works right now. Jets open up their operation more than any other franchise in football. Therefore, they are more subject to the trials & tribulations of the sports media world. What you end up w/ is extreme peaks & valleys. Win & it isn't an issue. It's that simple.

[LeonNYJ]

Originally Posted by KurtTheJetsFan

2. The Jets window for contention was 2008 to 2010. They had some minor holes..but for the most part they fielded an extremely talented, complete team. Jets gambled away SOME long term for the short term to try & get over the top. It didn't work. Granted, they haven't come out & admitted it to the public..but this current team IS in somewhat of a rebuilding project. So if you want to say that Rex has "his guys" now..fine..but there are obvious holes on this team who don't exactly represent Rex's handpicked talent.

Is it really good building if your window is only 3 years? I mean there are teams who are top tier teams for a decade and the Jets can only get there for three years?

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FOURTHANDLONG

If Pitt or the Giants would have lost those games their team or fan base would not have considered it a good season. They expect to win the big ones!

I bet the 2007 Giants would have considered it a good season,

[JetBlue]

Originally Posted by FOURTHANDLONG

If Pitt or the Giants would have lost those games their team or fan base would not have considered it a good season. They expect to win the big ones!

that simply isn't true and you cannot provide any sort of proof that even validates that statement.

[soh_vet]

Originally Posted by alleycat9

exactly...

i keep hearing people talk about how we went to the afc championship game 2 years in a row. that means we were afc divisional round playoff CHAMPIONS. which like you said means absolutely NOTHING.

For shits and giggles, i'm going to start off every thread i post in with "Did you know that Rex Ryan brought us to the 2009 AND 2010 AFC Championship back to back. Hope you enjoy it.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by LeonNYJ

Is it really good building if your window is only 3 years? I mean there are teams who are top tier teams for a decade and the Jets can only get there for three years?

No it's not a good idea. As I stated prior this team's biggest issue is sustained success. My point to the context in question was that Rex has not been given the same set of factors within his contructing of the team that Mangini was.

[soxxx]

The playoff wins are fading away now...

reminds me of the chargers, in 07 they went to afc championship, in 08 they beat a 12-4 Colts team, followed up with 13-3 the next year and then have fallen apart since the Jets beat em.

The one thing i always feared was if we would ever get back, its so hard to get there, even if you are good its hard. Just look at the Packers last year. Its a shame we couldnt close the deal in 2010,Rex coulda silenced everyone for the rest of his life. All it takes is 1 ring.

[xxedge72x]

Originally Posted by alleycat9

but why compare him to them? they are far far in the past. why not compare him to mike tomlin or belichick or someone else successful, why are we forced to compare him to jets coaches who sucked? yes i get it this franchise has sucked for most of my life... id like to see that change, but not just to getting into the playoffs half the time but to being dominant and winning divisions and getting home playoff games and maybe even a superbowl appearance.

ill give him that he is the most successful coach i have seen coach for the jets. that doesnt mean the things that are occurring arent happening.

There's no point in even comparing him to Tomlin and Belichick. You can't look at the Jets through a microscope and single out any one person... Rex Ryan, Mark Sanchez, Mike Tannenbaum, or whoever else is getting blamed right now.

Every team is a sea of moving parts all of which contribute to the greater success or failure of the franchise. While the Patriots have the "ideal" configuration of having its two major points be its HC and QB, it isn't everything because the smaller pieces need to do their part too. If the Patriots smaller pieces were doing their part, the Patriots would have won even more Super Bowls since their last.

Right now the Jets have numerous problems going all across the map. There is no silver bullet to fix this team. Firing Mike Tannenbaum won't save the Jets. Firing Rex Ryan won't save the Jets. Cutting Mark Sanchez won't save the Jets. The Jets are a big stinking mess right now. They are toxic.

Organizationally, a decision needs to be made whether to try to cut out the fat and improve across the board over time, or to just blow the whole thing up with an atom bomb and start from scratch. The fact that the Super Bowl is going to be in NY next year leads me to believe Woody J will hold off on using the nuke one more year at least.

So moving forward into next season, out of all the problems the Jets do have, Rex is lower on the list than say Tannenbaum and Sanchez. Again, we're not going with the nuke theory so changes are only going to happen in limited areas. Rex will survive this debacle, and there's a strong chance Sanchez will too because of his contract and the fact that there's unlikely to be a "franchise QB" in this upcoming draft that's worth making an investment in.

If Woody drops the bomb then all bets are off... otherwise you need to gauge where to sit pat and where to cut to improve for next year... Rex will stay.

[FOURTHANDLONG]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

I bet the 2007 Giants would have considered it a good season,

Winning organizations do not accept anything other than championships. Since the Jets have not won in so long we will accept anything to find some ray of hope. Sad but true.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FOURTHANDLONG

Winning organizations do not accept anything other than championships. Since the Jets have not won in so long we will accept anything to find some ray of hope. Sad but true.

The "winning" Giants hadn't won a SB since 1990, they hadn't won a playoff game since 2000. if they lost in GB in '07 it would have been a smashing success for the year.

[FOURTHANDLONG]

Originally Posted by JetBlue

that simply isn't true and you cannot provide any sort of proof that even validates that statement.

Do you think the Pats were satisfied with losing the SB to the Giants? Do you think they consider that a good season being 18-1?

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FOURTHANDLONG

Do you think the Pats were satisfied with losing the SB to the Giants? Do you think they consider that a good season being 18-1?

a team that won 3 SBs in 4 years and was 18-0 has slightly different standards than a team that hadn't won a playoff game since 2004 and hadn't won 2 playoff games in a single postseason since 1982.

[jets4lyfah]

that was the greatest era in last 2 decade of Jets history

i'm glad i witnessed it first hand. it was around when i started following this team seriously too. what a treat

[JetBlue]

Originally Posted by FOURTHANDLONG

Do you think the Pats were satisfied with losing the SB to the Giants? Do you think they consider that a good season being 18-1?

it takes a severe mental defect to conclude that I must think the Pats were satisfied losing the Super Bowl simply because making the Super Bowl inherently means you had a successful season overall, even if they had a terrible Super Bowl.

you see, there are two different factors to consider -- the season as a whole and the specific game of the Super Bowl. just getting to the Super Bowl requires a significant amount of success, so to say it isn't successful to do so just because they lost it is contradicted by the amount of success it took to actually get there.

The Pats sure looked excited to win the AFC Championship. if losing the Super Bowl means the season is a failure, then winning the AFC Championship is a failure as well. no team has ever won the conference championship and reacted as if it is a failure to do so.

[Footballgod214]

Of course it's important. Actually, it's huge.

Four playoff wins, on the road, within the last 3 years are very credible cinder blocks that help define a team.

Try telling fans of teams that haven't even sniffed the playoffs in over 10 years how 'irrelevant' it is to beat Peyton Manning and the Colts, and Tom Brady and the Pats, in their houses in back to back games, and those fans would probably SLAP you.

If you really think that anything short of winning the SB is bullshit and irrelevant, then skip watching football altogether. If the Jets win the SB, you can watch in on your DVR. That way you wont waste even one second watching an 'irrelevant' team.