[mute]

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[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by mute

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Man that guy totally owned the tea party woman

[devilonthetownhallroof]

What the fuck is she wiping from her mouth at the start of that? It can't be shit, that was what came pouring out once she started talking.

[The Lord]

Oh my god, she is a moron

[jixxjr]

Originally Posted by The Lord

Oh my god, she is a moron

"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already;

but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows,

without a shadow of doubt,

what is laid before him.

-Leo Tolstoy, 1897

[The Great American]

I have a sincere question that I'm really surprised has not been asked yet. Petraeus just resigned over a sex scandal ... why didn't Bill Clinton resign over his indiscretion?

[Cman55]

Originally Posted by The Great American

I have a sincere question that I'm really surprised has not been asked yet. Petraeus just resigned over a sex scandal ... why didn't Bill Clinton resign over his indiscretion?

Seriously TGA, let it go man. Just stop with the bullshit already and let it go. This is 2012. Repeat, it is 2012. Bill Clinton is no longer president and Monica Lewinsky isn't relevant anymore.

Let.... It.....Go...

[The Great American]

Originally Posted by Cman55

Seriously TGA, let it go man. Just stop with the bullshit already and let it go. This is 2012. Repeat, it is 2012. Bill Clinton is no longer president and Monica Lewinsky isn't relevant anymore.

Let.... It.....Go...

LOL!! Sorry ... History has always been one of my favorite subjects.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by The Great American

I have a sincere question that I'm really surprised has not been asked yet. Petraeus just resigned over a sex scandal ... why didn't Bill Clinton resign over his indiscretion?

Petraeus resigned because all the people coming at him to resign were on the same side of the battle. Clinton was in a situation in which partisan warfare was the driver of the attempts to remove him.

There's also the issue of security protocols apparently being breached by Petraeus that was exposed by the incident however it is not clear what really happened there.

[Dierking]

Originally Posted by The Great American

I have a sincere question that I'm really surprised has not been asked yet. Petraeus just resigned over a sex scandal ... why didn't Bill Clinton resign over his indiscretion?

What were you wiping out of your mouth just before you posted this?

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

Getting back to the Clinton-era tax rates as a baseline for negotiation is obviously the right move. The Democrats should begin changing the public perception of the fiscal cliff at this point. It's not a cliff unless all the effects of it stay in place and some are not retro-actively changed.

The danger that the Republicans will just say no at that point and not participate in a large middle-class tax cut are zero. Grover Norquist will be a Democrat by June and campaigning for them if the Republicans are still in "no tax cut" mode. Alternately he'll be exposed as a tool, which some have suspected all along.

On the spending side, well, would it really be a disaster if we cut another trillion dollars out of the budget for the next decade? Particularly given that the two things most heavily effected by the cuts are military spending and big government?

I think the table is set for the Democrats to just ride this one out and do what they can to mitigate damage on the other side.

The Republican response will probably be taking us near a debt-limit failure.

Well, would having the Republicans cause that level of insanity really be to the Democrats disadvantage? The executive branch figures out which checks get cut and which don't. Congress appropriates the money but the executive then spends it. I can see all sorts of places where Obama can make the Republicans pay a price in blood for making the government run out of money.

The underlying dynamics of the battle to come are in Obama's favor in a way they haven't been since early 2009. He botched that era by trying to be too conciliatory with a foe who would not bargain. I doubt he has those blinders on at the moment. i suspect he'll let the Republicans go a bridge too far.

As a believer in tax reform if I was a Republican I would be very comfortable with the Democrats making the argument to go back to the Clinton era taxes for everyone. I would not however let the Democrats off the hook by going back to Bush era tax cuts for 99% of the public and letting the Democrats take credit for supporting Bush era taxes and calling it a Democratic proposal.

If this is going to be about Bush tax code or Clinton tax code I think the Democrats should be willing to accept the Clinton tax code.

The reality is both arguments are highly flawed, we do need tax reform and the last good tax reform was the Bipartisan act of 86. That would be a much better alternative to either Bush or Clinton era tax codes.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by Biggs

As a believer in tax reform if I was a Republican I would be very comfortable with the Democrats making the argument to go back to the Clinton era taxes for everyone. I would not however let the Democrats off the hook by going back to Bush era tax cuts for 99% of the public and letting the Democrats take credit for supporting Bush era taxes and calling it a Democratic proposal.

If this is going to be about Bush tax code or Clinton tax code I think the Democrats should be willing to accept the Clinton tax code.

I'm in agreement with this. We should be at the Clinton-era tax levels. I don't give a rats-ass about the rich being discriminated against in a progressive tax code however the country has rung up quite a debt at this point and I think we need to start fixing that. The Bush Tax Cuts are a fiscal disaster and the longer we maintain the pretense that taking just incomes above $250k back up to pre tax cut levels will fix everything the longer the fiscal disaster will continue.

Originally Posted by Biggs

The reality is both arguments are highly flawed, we do need tax reform and the last good tax reform was the Bipartisan act of 86. That would be a much better alternative to either Bush or Clinton era tax codes.

Again, I'm in total agreement here. Having the government live off of credit cards as a way of life, as opposed to as a reaction to disaster, is bad for us and feeds into all Americans choosing to do this also when given easy access to credit.

BTW, the reason everybody ran from Simpson-Bowles was that it represented the biggest middle class tax increase in at least 80 years. Don't look for Simpson-Bowles to be the starter here. It's political poison for everybody involved.

[The Great American]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

Petraeus resigned because all the people coming at him to resign were on the same side of the battle. Clinton was in a situation in which partisan warfare was the driver of the attempts to remove him.

There's also the issue of security protocols apparently being breached by Petraeus that was exposed by the incident however it is not clear what really happened there.

I still don't see the difference. National security could have been compromised during Clinton's sexcapades as well.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by The Great American

I still don't see the difference. National security could have been compromised during Clinton's sexcapades as well.

The Director of the CIA is held to a higher standard when it comes to security issues. Politicians are politicians. Professionals not only should know better but also know that the drop is right there in front of them if they screw up.

BTW, I like Petraeus and I think his departure is bad for the country. With the CIA turning into a paramilitary organization at a rapid pace it made sense to have a forward-thinking general heading the organization up. I hope the next director is also from the services.

[Sundayjack]

All my leftward friends are happy with the election results, I assume? I wish I had the time to go through all of the banter on and around Election Day. Sorry I missed all the larfs. I was working for the Romney campaign, as some here know. Spent time down in Coral Gables, which appears to have been wasted, but for the warm weather.

Onward and upward....

[akibud]

Originally Posted by Sundayjack

All my leftward friends are happy with the election results, I assume? I wish I had the time to go through all of the banter on and around Election Day. Sorry I missed all the larfs. I was working for the Romney campaign, as some here know. Spent time down in Coral Gables, which appears to have been wasted, but for the warm weather.

Onward and upward....

I was wondering where you were hiding, just figured you were too disgusted to come on and defend the Myth. Turns out instead you were in the trenches taking on fire for the Myth. Good for you.

[Sundayjack]

Originally Posted by akibud

I was wondering where you were hiding, just figured you were too disgusted to come on and defend the Myth. Turns out instead you were in the trenches taking on fire for the Myth. Good for you.

I think he ran a rock solid campaign down the stretch, but a lousy Election Day operation. And, ultimately, I think he lost because the gods decided to give a Barack an opportunity to look presidential after he had long since abandoned that strategy. Stuff happens. (Note the limp post, caused by a fiance who asked that I give up swearing for good. Gone - a whole inventory of really useful words. It's been a tough few weeks.)

[akibud]

Originally Posted by Sundayjack

I think he ran a rock solid campaign down the stretch, but a lousy Election Day operation. And, ultimately, I think he lost because the gods decided to give a Barack an opportunity to look presidential after he had long since abandoned that strategy. Stuff happens. (Note the limp post, caused by a fiance who asked that I give up swearing for good. Gone - a whole inventory of really useful words. It's been a tough few weeks.)

I think that whatever happens the next 4 years, the best thing that could happen from the election is that Old white male politicians stop thinking that America is a white man's country, ..... STILL. And they start respecting the diversity of America and treat everyone equally. I hope that happens.

[milo]

Originally Posted by Sundayjack

I think he ran a rock solid campaign down the stretch, but a lousy Election Day operation. And, ultimately, I think he lost because the gods decided to give a Barack an opportunity to look presidential after he had long since abandoned that strategy. Stuff happens. (Note the limp post, caused by a fiance who asked that I give up swearing for good. Gone - a whole inventory of really useful words. It's been a tough few weeks.)

All I can do is speak for my little corner of the Earth in South Florida, but I totally agree with you Jack, for whatever reason the ground game was horrendous for Romney.

I live about a mile from the Romney campaign local headquarters, and every day I passed it for six months it was fully staffed and buzzing. I think they even had Guliani at the place the Saturday before.

Now at my house? Total 180...I had 7 people knock on my door in 10 days asking if I was voting for Obama, and on election day saw three different carloads in my neighborhood alone.

Romney? Not a damn thing. Somebody seriously dropped the ball when it comes to boots on the ground execution over there.

[Sundayjack]

Originally Posted by akibud

I think that whatever happens the next 4 years, the best thing that could happen from the election is that Old white male politicians stop thinking that America is a white man's country, ..... STILL. And they start respecting the diversity of America and treat everyone equally. I hope that happens.

I hear your point. I've heard it before. I don't agree with it, but I still hear it.

If I were a minority in the Democrat party and I were at all self-aware, I would be asking: what has this Party done for the advancement of minorities out of poverty or otherwise? 1970's housing programs served only to lock a whole class of underprivileged in decrepit, substandard, horrible housing, with the hope of nothing better. Teachers unions and centralized education planning does everything possible to see that underprivileged minorities are stuck in lousy schools. Cries of "racism!" at EVERY turn only diminish genuine claims of civil rights infringement.

The Republican position is, and should always be, that people should always be judged on the content of their character, and that a government program is not the solution to all that ills society. More often than not, it's the cause itself. I hope there's no compromise on that point.