[NYJetsRevis24]

Originally Posted by klecko73

In 2007, Giants fans were running Eli Manning out of town. He cratered in a horrible game 11 against the Vikings in which he posted a 33.8 QB rating. Yet despite all the cries by Giants fans to bench Eli, the Giants were able to rally despite a season in which Eli had QB ratings of 44.9, 33.8, 51.1, and 32.2.

Now I watched the Giants on a pretty regular basis and I can tell you that no matter how bad Sanchez has looked, he did not look as bad as Eli did that year. There were times where Eli was completely lost out there and I am not talking about flukey plays either.

Now, I will be the first to admit that Sanchez has been maddeningly frustrated to watch BUT I think the Jets need to give him these last 9 games to put it together. He lost his most dynamic offensive player and #1 WR Holmes for the year, and has been without his starting #2 WR, TE and FB for most of the first 7 games. It is clear that with most of his weapons back, Sanchez has been at the worst servicable and at his best pretty good. With a revolving cast on offense, poor route running and dropped passes galore, it could be a lot worse but it isn't. On defense, the Jets' lost their best player and a top ten NFL talent for the year and with the exception of parts of several games, their starting interior defensive lineman Pouha and Ellis haven't been on the field together. They are also making a very noticable transition at LB, finally starting to move Thomas and Scott to the bench as they are clearly done.

It looks like the Jets have finally committed to a youth movement with Coples and Davis on the field with a patchwork of offensive replacements in Reuland, Hilliard, Hill, Kerley, etc. I also think that the Holmes, much like Tiki Barber in 2007, has been an addition by subtraction for this team. The Jets have played much better these past 3 weeks despite going only 1-2.

Do they have to play better? Yes. Does Sanchez need to pick it up? Yes. But the problems that plagued the team early in the year are now starting to settle and barring any further injuries, the Jets should be getting Ellis and Powell back in a few weeks. In the event the Jets are 4-4 at the bye, they have 8 games to make a statement. They need to get these rookies and young players coached up with some reps so they can start taking off in the 2nd half of the season.

The AFC is wide-open this year, and with the exception of the SF game, the Jets have been in every game. The defeatist attitude is that the season is over but looking at the schedule, the Jets could reasonably pick-up another 5-7 wins. It is very possible that an 8-8 team will make the playoffs in the AFC.

Getting back to my initial point, facing similar adversity and basically sliding into the playoffs, Eli was able to turn it on beginning a run that started the last game of the season against the Patriots. People forgot also that Coughlin was under the gun as well as there was alot of talk that he wasn't going to return. Now I am not saying the Jets or Sanchez are going to the Super Bowl but throwing in the towel isn't the answer either. Ultimately the Jets need to make a decision on Sanchez and he now has 9 games to make a statement if he wants to be this team's leader.

As an FYI, for those of you wanting Tebow, just another reminder of Eli and Mark's stats through their first 4 years. They are pretty similar...

Eli...

SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT
2004 NYG 9 95 197 48.2 1,043 5.29 6 52 9 2 -- 55.4
2005 NYG 16 294 557 52.8 3,762 6.75 24 78 17 7 -- 75.9
2006 NYG 16 301 522 57.7 3,244 6.22 24 55 18 7 -- 77.0
2007 NYG 16 297 529 56.1 3,336 6.31 23 60 20 9 -- 73.9

Sanchez...

SEASON TEAM GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT
2009 NYJ 15 196 364 53.8 2,444 6.71 12 65 20 8 31.6 63.0
2010 NYJ 16 278 507 54.8 3,291 6.49 17 74 13 5 48.0 75.3
2011 NYJ 16 308 543 56.7 3,474 6.40 26 74 18 4 33.6 78.2
2012 NYJ 7 116 218 53.2 1,453 6.67 9 66 7 4 35.5 74.6

We were running Sanchez out of town last season to and nothing speical happened just a melt down of epic proportions

[FriendlyGiantsFan]

Originally Posted by dmw

It must have been very early in the season. They lost their 1st 2 games.

Eli actually played pretty well in the first game (he lead the team to 35 points) but the new defense let up 45 points. He injured his shoulder that game and played a decent game against GB next week. He actually earned some man points for playing through a shoulder separation.

It wasn't until the Minnesota, 2nd Redskins, and Buffalo games that the hate really began to churn up.

[davecrazy]

Originally Posted by FriendlyGiantsFan

Eli actually played pretty well in the first game (he lead the team to 35 points) but the new defense let up 45 points. He injured his shoulder that game and played a decent game against GB next week. He actually earned some man points for playing through a shoulder separation.

It wasn't until the Minnesota, 2nd Redskins, and Buffalo games that the hate really began to churn up.

It's funny how nobody who makes these dumb comparisons mentions that A) the Giants were 6-2 headed into their bye week and B) Manning had a bad shoulder injury that the doctors told him was going to keep him out a month minimum and possible the season.

Wake me up when Dog Shit, I mean Sanchez leads this team to a 6-2 record with a bad shoulder.

[MurrellMartin]

Originally Posted by davecrazy

It's funny how nobody who makes these dumb comparisons mentions that A) the Giants were 6-2 headed into their bye week and B) Manning had a bad shoulder injury that the doctors told him was going to keep him out a month minimum and possible the season.

Wake me up when Dog Shit, I mean Sanchez leads this team to a 6-2 record with a bad shoulder.

Or when Sanchez shows some of the promise Eli showed during his first three seasons, something Sanchez has yet to show as he's progressively gotten WORSE. Although it was slow moving, Eli was actually improving.

The comparisons are RIDICULOUS.

The 2012 Jets are NOTHING like the 2007 Giants and Sanchez is NOTHING like Eli Manning.

[DemoIsland]

Originally Posted by MurrellMartin

Or when Sanchez shows some of the promise Eli showed during his first three seasons, something Sanchez has yet to show as he's progressively gotten WORSE. Although it was slow moving, Eli was actually improving.

The comparisons are RIDICULOUS.

The 2012 Jets are NOTHING like the 2007 Giants and Sanchez is NOTHING like Eli Manning.

EXACTLY RIGHT. Giants had a solid pass rush, a big WR, and a few fluke plays. Quit the comparisons.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by davecrazy

It's funny how nobody who makes these dumb comparisons mentions that A) the Giants were 6-2 headed into their bye week and B) Manning had a bad shoulder injury that the doctors told him was going to keep him out a month minimum and possible the season.

Wake me up when Dog Shit, I mean Sanchez leads this team to a 6-2 record with a bad shoulder.

I'd rather start 4-4 and end up 6-2 than start 6-2 and end up 4-4. regardless of all the excuses you threw out(Sanchez was knocked silly at Pitt and that affected him for multiple games but no mention of that- how come? he's been mising most of his weapons most of the year but no mention of that- how come?). Eli threw 23 TDs and 20 INts that year before playing sanchez like in January and the D taking off to lead them to a SB.

[nyjunc]

The difference btw NYG conf title games in '07 & '11 and NYJ in '09 & '10 is that NYG's D and Sts won those games while our D got beat up both games. The difference wasn't the QB play.

[Velocityvirus]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

I'd rather start 4-4 and end up 6-2 than start 6-2 and end up 4-4. regardless of all the excuses you threw out(Sanchez was knocked silly at Pitt and that affected him for multiple games but no mention of that- how come? he's been mising most of his weapons most of the year but no mention of that- how come?). Eli threw 23 TDs and 20 INts that year before playing sanchez like in January and the D taking off to lead them to a SB.

You really said that!!!!

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by MurrellMartin

Or when Sanchez shows some of the promise Eli showed during his first three seasons, something Sanchez has yet to show as he's progressively gotten WORSE. Although it was slow moving, Eli was actually improving.

The comparisons are RIDICULOUS.

The 2012 Jets are NOTHING like the 2007 Giants and Sanchez is NOTHING like Eli Manning.

Eli wasn't improving. That's why the Giants fans were throwing their hands up in the air. He threw 20 picks in 2007 after throwing 18 in 2006. His number of throws was *exactly* where Sanchez number of throws have been. His YPA went back down to 6.3 that year also. His completion percentage dropped back down to 56.1 after peaking at 57.8.

He was in Sanchez-land.

Then the Giants got hot at the end of the season and won an improbable Super Bowl.

Eli had a couple of good seasons after than and then he threw 25 picks in 2008.

The people who discount the Eli-Sanchez comparisons are only doing so because they have an agenda to sell. It's not a perfect comparison but Eli was much more disappointing as the #1 overall pick halfway through the 2007 season than Sanchez is now. It's only the difference in the fan bases and their level of discontentment that makes Sanchez seem like the bigger loser.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Velocityvirus

You really said that!!!!

Sanchez in Januayr has been excellent. Let's compare them in their playoff apps through 3 years in the league:

Sanchez:
95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, 94.3 rating, 4-2 record, led O to 20 PPG

Eli:
26-45, 58%, 274 yds, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 53.3 rating, 0-2 record(including being shutout at HOME), led O to 10 PPG.


Eli's overall playoff #s:
219-356, 62%, 2516 yds, 17 TDs, 8 INTs, led O to 19 PPG

if we prorate Mark's through 11 games:

174-287, 61%, 2118 yds, 17 TDs, 6 INTs, led O to 20 PPG


Not so laughable now is it?

NYG D in playoff games allowing 16.8 PPG
NYJ D 19.8

[MurrellMartin]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

The difference btw NYG conf title games in '07 & '11 and NYJ in '09 & '10 is that NYG's D and Sts won those games while our D got beat up both games. The difference wasn't the QB play.

Yeah, the offense was spectacular in the first half of the Pittsburgh game.

"Oh but we came back to make it close!"

Cool story bro. Philosophies and HUMAN mindsets change when up 24-0.

Offense was really clicking in the second half of Indy, too.

Team effort of sucking.

[MurrellMartin]

Originally Posted by DemoIsland

EXACTLY RIGHT. Giants had a solid pass rush, a big WR, and a few fluke plays. Quit the comparisons.

Yep.

We're not finding a consistent pass rush anytime soon. I like Coples and Wilkerson's upsides, but we still don't have a pure outside rusher. Nor do we have Eli Manning. Mark Sanchez will never, ever, ever, be Eli Manning. And you're right, they still needed the luckiest play in NFL history (outside of maybe the Franco Harris "Hail Mary" vs. Oakland in the 70's.)

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

Bottom line is we're in year 4 and still talking about potential. I don't think all of it falls on Sanchez' shoulders, I think the organization hasn't always done enough to get him to reach his potential. But the way it stands now, he's simply not good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by MurrellMartin

Yeah, the offense was spectacular in the first half of the Pittsburgh game.

"Oh but we came back to make it close!"

Cool story bro. Philosophies and HUMAN mindsets change when up 24-0.

Offense was really clicking in the second half of Indy, too.

Team effort of sucking.

The D set the tone w/ a LONG TD drive to start the game, the O got it back to w/in a 1 score game and we needed our D to stop Pitt from getting 2 1st downs- they couldn't and we lost mainly b/c of the D.

The Giants D got critical stops and gave Eli the ball in OT at the GB 34 in the '07 title game, in '11 the STs set up Eli for the only 2nd half and OT scores they would get w/ fumbled punts.

[Bellows1]

Originally Posted by klecko73

Br4d -



Sanchez feels that pressure to make the play because he doesn't have have the player on offense that scares anyone. Yesterday, Eli was bailed out because Victor Cruz made a huge play. When was the last time a Jets WR did that? Off the top of my head it was Braylon a few years ago against the Colts.


K73

This week Hill had two guys beat for what could have been a TD, Mark threw it short for a pick. A couple of weeks ago Cro had his guy beat by a mile and Mark threw it out of bounds. He has had guys in position to make big plays...

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Bellows1

This week Hill had two guys beat for what could have been a TD, Mark threw it short for a pick. A couple of weeks ago Cro had his guy beat by a mile and Mark threw it out of bounds. He has had guys in position to make big plays...

that happens to every QB every week, Brady left plays on the field too. Mark put us on his back and had us in position to win the gamem the D failed in a big spot yet again.

[rohirrim665]

I hate to admit it, but the Giants, not only in 2007 but even last year have proved that anything is possible and you don't have to be worldbeaters to get deep into the playoffs. I am open to all possibilities, why not? It makes things more interesting.

[FriendlyGiantsFan]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

I'd rather start 4-4 and end up 6-2 than start 6-2 and end up 4-4. regardless of all the excuses you threw out(Sanchez was knocked silly at Pitt and that affected him for multiple games but no mention of that- how come? he's been mising most of his weapons most of the year but no mention of that- how come?). Eli threw 23 TDs and 20 INts that year before playing sanchez like in January and the D taking off to lead them to a SB.

Dude, c'mon. Sanchez stepped up his game in the playoffs in his first two years, but let's not go crazy now.

[FriendlyGiantsFan]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

The D set the tone w/ a LONG TD drive to start the game, the O got it back to w/in a 1 score game and we needed our D to stop Pitt from getting 2 1st downs- they couldn't and we lost mainly b/c of the D.

The Giants D got critical stops and gave Eli the ball in OT at the GB 34 in the '07 title game, in '11 the STs set up Eli for the only 2nd half and OT scores they would get w/ fumbled punts.

Eli & Burress torched Al Harris (when he was at or near the top of his game) in that game. This was also done in freezing temperatures. Eli outplayed Favre in Green Bay in freezing weather and you're going to argue that it was because of the defense, on a night in which the passrush was pretty much a nonfactor, and special teams (on a night when Tynes missed 2 chip shot FGs in regulation) won that game?

Really, junc?

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FriendlyGiantsFan

Eli & Burress torched Al Harris (when he was at or near the top of his game) in that game. This was also done in freezing temperatures. Eli outplayed Favre in Green Bay in freezing weather and you're going to argue that it was because of the defense, on a night in which the passrush was pretty much a nonfactor, and special teams (on a night when Tynes missed 2 chip shot FGs in regulation) won that game?

Really, junc?

I didn't say he sucked but did his D not set him up for the GW FG? Outside of Burress absolutely dominating Eli didn't do much else. Plax had 151 of Eli's 251 pass yds, that was more Plax than Eli.

Eli was good in that postseason, Eli was really good last year but in both title games he was set up in OT by TOs for the GW FGs.