[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Yisman

Since the beginning of the 2010 season, when he strung together some effective starts, he's been the worst starting pitcher in baseball to keep his spot in the rotation (aside from when he was injured last season, of course).

Are you exaggerating for emphasis when you say he's been the "worst," or do you really mean that?

[NYCKNP]

Originally Posted by VanderbiltJets

Tonight's home plate ump is a screamer.

Yeah. I like the way umpire Jim Joyce yells "Stri-EEEK!". It's hilarious

[Jake]

Didn't catch the end of this one as I was watching the LA Kings play the 0-time Champions. The box tells me Nova labored, and Soriano ran into trouble but the bats saved the day. Good to win another series.

Twinkies up next.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Originally Posted by Yisman

, he's been the worst starting pitcher in baseball to keep his spot in the rotation (aside from when he was injured last season, of course).

John Lackey says hello.

[Yisman]

Lackey hasn't even pitched this season.

Pavano allows 3 in the first and none since.

Originally Posted by Cappy

Are you exaggerating for emphasis when you say he's been the "worst," or do you really mean that?

a little of both. I couldn't think of anyone worse off the top of my head, but it's possible there are pitchers who have been worse and still are starting. Can't be many, though. Guys who are that bad over such a long period tend to lose their starting jobs.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Yisman

Guys who are that bad over such a long period tend to lose their starting jobs.

You need to put "that bad" into perspective, though.

For his career, Hughes has been slightly to moderately below league average (as a starter), and two of those seasons as a starter had him dealing with significant injuries. Not trying to make excuses for him, but... *shrugs* ... he's no Burnett.

As a highly touted prospect for the NYY in the AL East, his performance has obviously been disappointing. That's still a far cry from the worst starting pitcher in baseball, though.

[Yisman]

No, definitely not the worst starting pitcher in baseball.

I was referring to the combination of being bad and keeping a hold on a spot in the rotation.

[Jake]

Carla beats the Yankees. Putrid.

[AMJets]

Glad I only saw about 2 minutes of this shit fest.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Yisman

No, definitely not the worst starting pitcher in baseball.

I was referring to the combination of being bad and keeping a hold on a spot in the rotation.

Even that's not true, though. Especially given the qualifiers you gave in your first post. He's been horribly inconsistent. And perhaps somewhat prone to injuries. But not the worst starter to keep his job.

And he clearly hasn't "kept a hold on a spot in the rotation." After a shitty, injury-plagued 2008, he spent most of 2009 in the pen. His 2010 was fine... first half clearly better than second half, but still fine. His 2011 was... well... messed up. He was injured or out of shape or something. When he came back from that injury, he put up an ERA of 4.49. Not great, but hardly awful. And, really, it's been completely hit or miss with him. Even after coming back last year, Hughes would have three good starts, and one atrocious one. It all comes back to his fastball command. When it's on, he's very hard to hit. When it's not... for whatever reason, he's very predictable and gets rocked.

[Yisman]

Originally Posted by Cappy

And he clearly hasn't "kept a hold on a spot in the rotation." After a shitty, injury-plagued 2008, he spent most of 2009 in the pen. His 2010 was fine... first half clearly better than second half, but still fine. His 2011 was... well... messed up. He was injured or out of shape or something. When he came back from that injury, he put up an ERA of 4.49. Not great, but hardly awful. And, really, it's been completely hit or miss with him. Even after coming back last year, Hughes would have three good starts, and one atrocious one. It all comes back to his fastball command. When it's on, he's very hard to hit. When it's not... for whatever reason, he's very predictable and gets rocked.

If you go back and look, I'm talking about from mid-May 2010 until now, not 2007-2009. He was not good in 2010, aside from the first month and a half.

He has "kept a hold on a spot in the rotation", because he's been kept in the rotation, which is what I'm talking about.

[Don]

So Cashman could have kept Garcia or Colon.......

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Yisman

If you go back and look, I'm talking about from mid-May 2010 until now, not 2007-2009. He was not good in 2010, aside from the first month and a half.

He has "kept a hold on a spot in the rotation", because he's been kept in the rotation, which is what I'm talking about.

I know, but that's kind of a weird sample to choose from. Hughes had a lousy second half of 2010 after a great first half. Hardly surprising he kept his spot through the end of 2010. He was injured at the start of 2011 and when he came back his was okay. Inconsistent. Not great, but certainly not terrible, and was moved to the pen at the end of the year and for the postseason. Which leaves you with this year, where he probably looked the best of any Yankee pitcher in ST stuff and command wise. That performance won/earned Hughes his spot in the rotation to start this year. He has now had two ineffective starts, but very likely won't keep his spot in the rotation if this continues once Pettitte and Pineda are ready.

[Yisman]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I know, but that's kind of a weird sample to choose from. Hughes had a lousy second half of 2010 after a great first half.

Not exactly. Like I said, the only time in his career when he strung some good starts together was before May 13 in the 2010 season. He never had a great half. He had a great six starts.

After that:

5 IP, 6 H, 5 ER
5.2, 8, 4
7, 5, 2
7, 6, 1
6, 9, 3
5.2, 7, 5
7, 5, 3
5.2, 10, 6
6, 6, 5

So yes, his overall numbers for the first half looked good, but it was because of those first six starts, because he was never consistently good after that.

I also would've kept him in the rotation in 2010, chasing that form, but I would've taken him out in 2011.

[Cappy]

Sure, I'm happy to say he was "never consistently good."

That's a far cry from terrible, or the worst starting pitcher in baseball to keep his job... which is the claim I took issue with.

[VanderbiltJets]

I love watching the Bombers rock Liriano.

[Yisman]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Sure, I'm happy to say he was "never consistently good."

right, and that includes the first half of 2010

That's a far cry from terrible, or the worst starting pitcher in baseball to keep his job... which is the claim I took issue with.

He's been pretty bad since then. Tell me the pitchers you think are worse. Like I said, there won't be many who fit the criteria. Obviously each season there have been starting pitchers who fared worse, but those guys tend to lose their spot in the rotation.

[Cappy]

Jesus Christ, if you're going to parse data, at least do it consistently.

[Yisman]

You still haven't answered my question. Jesus Christ indeed.

What I said was pretty simple, but you're trying to come up with as many ways to misconstrue it as you can.

[Cappy]

What question?

The one about finding worse pitchers? But how I'm not allowed to find ones who were worse at comparable times, only right now... except I also have to include hughes's entire body of work, except for the times he was good. Oh, and I'm not allowed to consider context about injuries either. That question?