Draft order concerns versus Darnold's progress. Were you happy with the win today?

I was hoping that you would post this. That pass was simply amazing! He never looked left even after he threw the ball. He just knew that he was accurate and the pass was completed. He made some dumb rookie mistakes in the game, but is learning and has amazing talent and potential.

 

Let me start by saying I appreciate how much went into this post. Point taken... but...

While on paper you can say "the Jets would have taken Matt Ryan" in 2007, they were still committed to Chad Pennington and at that point, we didn't know Kellen Clemens was a career backup. In fact I remember that year, the Jets were tied heavily to McFadden. Who is to say we wouldn't have taken McFadden third overall instead of Matt Ryan? In fact, given the makeup of the team at the time, I would say it was more likely than not that we would have.

The 2014 one I can't give you. Both Winston and Mariota might not even make it to a second contract with either of their teams. We would have set ourselves back 5 years (not that we haven't already) taking either of them. If anything, 2014 is more proof that "meaningless" wins haven't really hurt this team. We got Leo 6th overall, and yes he's been underwhelming but he was also a consensus top 3 player in that draft.

It's all conjecture. You don't know who would have taken who and especially in the 2nd round and later. On paper, you can make a ton of claims. Seeing as how we've been gifted three guys in the last few years that were never supposed to fall to where they did... obviously reality plays out a bit differently.

If we had no QB and not a ton of money to spend, I'd be a little bit more 50/50 on wins/losses this late in a lost season. But we have the QB and to me the lift of winning that game especially when he was the reason for it far outweighs the draft position we MIGHT lose.

 

Draft position means zero, zilch, nada, especially when you already have your QB. It is so far more important for a young team to learn how to close out games and win than the difference between a couple spots in draft order.

I swear the only thing possibly dumber than Jets management is Jets fans. This conversation is so beyond idiotic I can’t believe anyone isn’t completely embarrassed to support it in a public forum.

 

Thanks for acknowledging the work I put in.

I disagree that the Jets were still committed to Chad Pennington at that point. 2007 was his last year with the Jets and he went to Miami the next season as a FA, I believe. Why would the Jets have taken Clemens if they were still so committed to Chad. I never liked Kellen Clemens and couldn't believe that the Jets traded down to take him. Yes, there were rumors about McFadden, and I liked him a lot, but with the importance of the QB position and with Chad having no arm strength by that point, I think they would have taken Ryan.

We'll have to agree to disagree. As I said, you can't just look at (cherry pick) 1st round studs in retrospect. You have to look at how players were rated in that draft and what the Jets' needs were. Tennessee's coaches have been little better than the Jets. Systems and personalities can make a difference in how a player develops. I'm not saying that Mariota would be any better if he had come to the Jets instead, but he might be. One thing we know for certain is that it has sucked having Geno, Fitz and McCown, and if we had taken Ryan, we would never have had Sanchez and quite possibly would have won a SB or two under Mangini or Rex. With the potential that Mariota had, he could just have easily wound up being a star, and still could. Those years wouldn't have been wasted, either, because instead of all the defensive picks, Mack might have taken offensive players to build around Mariota. With regards to Winston, it doesn't matter, because I never wanted him anyway due to his poor character.

Yes, it's all conjecture. That's my point. Things could have worked out very differently and better for the Jets. It would be hard for them to have been much worse than they have. When you have the ability to draft a player, then a number of things can happen, but when you have no ability to draft a player because he was taken before your pick and you couldn't trade up, then nothing good can happen with that player. All higher draft position does is put more options and possibilities on the table. The GM still has to make the right decisions/picks.

Thanks for the discussion. I'm not really unhappy that the Jets won yesterday, just more disappointed that yet again they managed to screw up their draft position (at least temporarily) by winning a game that in the long run won't matter one whit.

 

I am happy with the win. Although draft order is important, if I owned the jets I would want my players to try to and to win every game. As others have posted, however, I really want the jets to get a new GM and coach this offseason, so I hope the Johnsons don't see us beating the lowly bills as some sort of accomplishment that we need either back next year.

 

What about your hair, is it signature?

 

Who? This is an amazing draft if you need a pass rusher, and an awful one if you need pass protection. Most of the college LTs coming out don't project as NFL LTs:

Greg Little, Ole Miss, is likely the best available, and he's probably a mid-1st round pick. In most drafts he'd probably be the 3rd or 4th LT off the board. He's not strong or consistent enough.
Jawan Taylor, Florida, is likely to be great RT or a G, but not a top tier LT.
Jonah Williams, Alabama, is likely a G, maybe a RT, maybe an emergency LT.
David Edwards, Wisconsin, is almost certainly an RT.
Dalton Risner, Northwestern, is probably a C.
Andre Dillard, Washington State, will have to make it work at LT, as his run blocking isn't very good.
Isaiah Prince, Ohio State, is likely a RT or a G.
Yodney Cajuste, West Virginia, is likely a G.

Who am I missing here?

 

We missed out on Bosa a great pass rusher that we haven't had in over 10 years same old Jets.

 

I'm not sure if this is a real post or you're just making fun of SOJF...

 

Yea what a joke, especially considering this draft isn’t absolutely loaded with edge rushers... oh wait

 

And the response for this is the same as any other similar post. You can lament the following facts all you want - however it doesn't change a thing.

1) Players and coaches who aren't guaranteed anything in the future generally don't play to lose. They don't tank on purpose. If you could come up with a defensible reason why a borderline player (which the Jets have plenty of) would give less than his best effort for the benefit of future draft choices then you would be the first. Marginal players are bound to make good plays some of the time and when you pile enough of those good plays together that team will win every so often.

2) Somebody has to win the games. They can't all end in n ties. The fact that one bad team will beat another bad team is inescapable.

3) Occassionally a bad team will beat a good team. It happens in September and it happens in December too.

These facts above are really not up to debate. Also, it's fruitless to argue that drafting at #1 is not better than drafting #5.

However, as for my own opinion, the reason why traditionally bad teams are bad is not because they don't lose enough at the end of the year to get better draft positions. It's not a "lack of opportunity" to draft good talent. Bad teams are historically bad because the FO didn't draft well enough given their position and their CS didn't do a good enough job at developing the players that were drafted. It's as simple as that.

 

940 votes on a baseball poll.

 

Unless you need a franchise QB worrying about draft order is a waste of time..add to that there's no stud offensive players in this year's class.

 

As you stated, draft position makes no difference if you know what you're doing.
Teams like the Pats, Steelers, Packers, Ravens, never draft in the top 5 but they're in the playoffs every year because they have a QB and a clue. THAT should be what we root for a Jets fans. Not losing games to help the front office to not fuck up. If that's what you're hanging your hat on, we will spend another 50 years without sniffing a Lombardi.

 

Absolutely zero concern over winning with Darnold at the helm. Glad we went winless with McCown. I want Darnold to be successful and build momentum going into next season. Could care less if we win out. Go Jets and Go Darnold. Can't wait to watch him play the rest of the season and for the offseason.

 

If you’re so embarrassed, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I don’t feel people posting here appreciate you taking shots at them over a difference of opinion. Keep it civil.

 

I've seen some of the draft sites and the projections you list above, but they were on lesser draft sites. I'm waiting until I can see tape on all of the above and read some other draft reports from more respected sources. It's still very early in the draft season, and nfl.com hasn't even put out their draft profiles yet.

For right now, Little is my favorite. I saw the report suggesting that Jonah Williams would be better off at OG but I find that hard to believe, especially if he projects to a top 5 pick. He has started at LT for Alabama since his freshman year hasn't he? I doubt that Risner will wind up at C. He played C as a freshman then moved to RT and has been a pretty darned good one. That stupid draft game site has him as a C, but those jerks don't know jack.

You left off one LT. Trey Adams. If he had entered the draft last year, he was projected to be a high 1st rounder and perhaps the best LT in the class, but then went back to school, tore his ACL and missed the whole year. He played this year, but was still recovering from the injury and didn't start. I think that right now he is projected to go in the 2nd round, but he still has talent, and with a good Combine, he could rise up the draft boards. A couple of posters here that I respect a lot are high on Yodney Cajuste. He could also be a possibility. I'm sure that there is probably a LT or two from small schools that, while not likely to be 1st rounders, could wind up playing like first rounders. We'll just have to wait and see how things shake out.

Here's an interesting article on CBS Sportsline that you might want to read: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...y-jonah-williams-looks-like-best-in-a-decade/
The author considers this the best OT class in a decade.

 

I never said anything about players and coaches playing to lose. Why does someone always have to throw that straw man argument out there when discussing this topic? Stick to the facts.

Yes, someone has to win, but if the Jets have to be inept all season long, why do they suddenly get it together in December? I remember years when they were pretty good and couldn't win a December game and now that they're lousy, they play like champs in December. It's assbackwards.

Jets GMs definitely haven't drafted well enough regardless of where they're drafting. In general, the players who are projected to be top players or stars at their position go at the top of the first round, and when the Jets have had a horrible season, I want them drafting as high as possible in the top 5 so they have as many options as possible. It increases the odds that our doofus GMs will get it right, particularly when the top QBs, LTs and edge rushers always go high. Those have been needs for years. LT less than QB or edge rusher, but it still has been a pretty big need ever since Brick's play started falling off a cliff.

 

LOL! I wish you would not "sugarcoat" it--next time tell us how you REALLY feel.