Draft order concerns versus Darnold's progress. Were you happy with the win today?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Brook!, Dec 9, 2018.

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Were you happy with the win today?

  1. Yes

    72.3%
  2. No

    13.4%
  3. Not sure yet

    14.3%
  1. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    Wait, why the heck would we trade back if Bosa, Allen or Ferrell were on the board?
     
  2. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    Maccagnan also tried to trade into that spot for Mariota too.
     
  3. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    I just was referencing this on Twitter. I went to Nashville for that game with our group of season ticket guys and we had a freakin blast... only to hop on Twitter (honestly, probably worse on here) to see people whining and crying and complaining. How'd that big Titans loss work out for them?

    Titans almost won that game on a Dolphins-esque hook and ladder play. They were coming right at our endzone and the Titans fans were screaming "NO NO NO!!"
     
  4. Attackett

    Attackett Well-Known Member

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    Next thing we know there will be Jets fans threatening to end their fandom if they win another game.
     
  5. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Several. Over/under? I'm still in the running with my 7-9 prediction, haha.
     
  6. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. Teams especially in the top 10 trade back and get a number of picks. I think the number 1 would bring back the best return so that is where I'm coming from. That being said anywhere we fall and if the right guy for us isn't there we can trade back and get more. The next three weeks will determine as well as what we do in free agency. Still time to tell.
     
  7. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    Let me take this back... if we have to choose between Allen and trading back, I would sure as hell track back. So the post I quoted isn't totally off base. But yea, why the heck would we entertain trading back if Bosa was on the board?
     
  8. Peebag

    Peebag Well-Known Member

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    at this point, it's all about Darnold's growth.
     
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  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    First, while we might've been sitting at #1 after the game and for this week, there's no guarantee we would wind up with it in the end. Secondly, we still might get it if we lose the rest of our games and other teams "cooperate". But in the end, we should be sitting in a good spot no matter what, and seeing Darnold p;lay like he did yesterday was worth it IMO.
     
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  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    The thing is one can't just go by a "legit stud, top tier first round player." We'll never know how players' careers would have panned out if they were drafted by different teams. Surely some would still have thrived, while others would have fared better, and others worse.

    If Buffalo had scored on their last drive and won the game yesterday, it wouldn't have diminished Sam's accomplishment one iota. He still would have had an excellent 2nd half, put the team on his shoulders and led them to a comeback. It would have been on Bowles, Rodgers and the D for not preserving the victory. By losing two spots in draft order, it could cost the Jets an opportunity to trade back and gain a couple of picks (a 2nd and 3rd or a 2nd and 4th). With those picks, the Jets could add a great edge rusher prospect and a great RB prospect, address other needs, or could upgrade two other positions.

    The best example of winning a meaningless game costing us dearly is in the 1990 season. We won our last 2 games in December to finish at 6-10, which left us drafting after the Falcons. We didn't have a 1st round pick. The Falcons took Brett Favre just ahead of us in the 2nd round. Think our history would have been a little different if we had drafted Favre? Ron Wolf was our personnel director and wanted Favre. Perhaps if we had gotten Favre, Wolf would have stayed here rather than going to GB, and our history over the last 28 years could have been radically different. I didn't check other rounds, but they matter too.

    In the 2016 season, the Jets won twice in December, including their last game to finish at 5-11. Take away those two wins, and the Jets and we'd have been tied with the Bears at 3-13. Picking 3rd or 4th, we may have had more trade down possibilities, or even if had stayed put and taken Adams in the 1st round, in subsequent rounds we would have had a lot of excellent players to choose from that instead we never had the opportunity to draft. There are too many to name.

    In the 2014 season the Jets won week 15 against the Titans and beat the Dolphins in their last game of the season to finish at 4-12. If they had lost both games, they would have been at 2-14. The Bucs picked #1 and their record was 2-14. The Titans drafted #2 and were also 2-14. I don't know if the Jets would have wound up picking ahead of one of them, but if so, then they would have had a shot at Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota. Granted that neither has proven to be all that, but they could have and the Jets would have had their potential solution at QB a lot sooner. I didn't look at other rounds.

    In 2007, the Jets won on Dec 2 of that season vs the Dolphins and won their last game against Kansas City to finish at 4-12. The Atlanta Falcons finished at 4-12 and drafted Matt Ryan in the 2008 NFL draft. Take away one of those wins and the Jets could have had Matt Ryan at QB. I didn't look in other rounds, but am sure there were probably players the Jets could have taken that were better than who they wound up taking.

    In the 2005 season, the Jets won twice in December, including their last game vs the Bills, and as a result, finished at 4-12 and picked 4th in the NFL draft. Take away those two wins and they would have been 2-14 and tied with Houston for the top pick ahead of the Saints. Brick was the right pick in the 1st round, but in the 2nd round instead of trading down for Kellen Clemens we could have had Demeco Ryans or D'Qwell Jackson, both very good LBs. I didn't look at other rounds.

    In the 2003 season the Jets again won twice in December, finishing at 6-10. They drafted in the #12 spot in the 2004 draft. The Steelers finished at 6-10 and drafted at #11. They took Ben Roethlisberger. The Browns finished at 5-11. They took Kellen Winslow. The Cardinals finished at 4-12 and drafted #3. In the 1st round they took Larry Fitzgerald and in the 2nd took Karlos Dansby. Again, I didn't check other rounds.
     
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  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Because we can potentially sign an elite edge rusher in FA, and can't sign an elite LT in FA. Protecting Sam, helping him develop and upgrading the offense are higher priorities than edge rusher. Even if drafted Bosa, Allen, or Ferrell and they wound up HOF players it wouldn't matter if Sam wound up getting seriously injured or never developed because he was constantly having to run for his life.
     
  12. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    Something like this too can change. With a new hc will come a new defensive scheme. Based on that does the new dc run a 3-4 or 4-3. That'll decide the pass rusher we might need. All things that will be interesting to follow.
     
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  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It's way too early to say which of the Big Four QBs will become the best - although I'm still pretty sure it won't be Allen - but if Sam gets better coaching, and gets the supporting talent he should get, he'll be the best QB the Jets have had since Namath.

    I think Baker would've been good here - assuming Bowles and Bates are fired - and Rosen could be great if he gets the right pieces around him. Given that Macc f'ed up by passing on Mahomes, I'm happy with Sam and pray they don't screw him up.
     
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  14. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    This is different than previous years when you wanted to tank for a draft pick. These young players need to learn how to win. I'm not gonna be upset with any wins down the stretch.

    Draft looks weak anyway
     
  15. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Even Bowles couldn't f*ck this kid up. Too much talent; too much swag.

     
  16. FrontOfficeFanatic

    FrontOfficeFanatic Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling we are going to go 2-1 to finish the year....are defense is decent and is playing free because of not being in contention. The offense will be more aggressive I think and score more points. Macc will probably stay at this point....Bowles will be fired after the season concludes.
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    You've laid out a compelling history of how meaningless wins have hurt the Jets drafting, but while I'm sure you'll disagree, I submit that yesterday's win was NOT meaningless by any stretch. And I disagree that Sam would've gotten the same benefit whether they won or lost. Engineering a come from behind win in the closing minutes of a game for the first time, playing against a guy who he was measured against in college and the draft, and will likely always be measured against as long as they both play, was HUGE. Sure, he would've been able to feel good about himself even if they lost, but the difference between winning and losing is night and day.

    And by your own catalog above, pointing out that the Jets missed on Favre because Atlanta drafted ahead of them, you fail to note that Favre was passed up by every team in the 1st round, meaning that had the Jets drafted 30th that year they could've gotten him, no "tanking" required.

    The bottom line is that the Jets have been done in more by shitty player evaluations and draft strategy than their draft position. Sure, I too want them to have the highest pick they can, which means they have more potential quality to choose from and therefore that increases their chances of striking gold, but the real problem has been, and still is, really shitty scouting and evaluation. To put it another way, let's say the Jets had the #2 or #3 pick in 2017 (they weren't going to get the #1 pick since the Browns were 1-15). Do you think Macc would've taken Mahomes? Hell no! He passed on his at #6! In fact, there's a good chance he still would've taken Adams, and while Adams is damn good and becoming a great leader, there is no other position aside from QB that will ever has as much impact. So, again, it wasn't the draft position, it was the guy doing the drafting. We can only hope he isn't the guy doing the drafting this year.
     
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  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I know, I know! A colossal miss by Macc! Again, wou;d he be performing for Bowles like he is for Reid? Hell no! But he would still be better than anyone the Jets have had since Namath (and in the end, I believe even better than Joe Willie). For this miss alone Macc should be fired.
     
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  19. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    Let’s not forget the Browns loss in Mayfields debut. That one had to sting. This should help resolve some of that for Sam, at least.
     
  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but they didn't have a 1st round pick so couldn't take him then. The point is that they still could have taken him if it weren't for a meaningless win or two.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on the rest. Whatever good feelings they got from winning yesterday will be gone by Saturday. They aren't gonna look back at this season and say, "Boy, I'm sure glad we were 4-12 instead of 3-13." Sam would have accomplished the very same things if the Bills had scored on the last drive and won as he did in their winning.

    Absolutely, there's no question that they have been done in more by shitty player evaluations, draft strategy, and I'll add a lousy job of player development/adapting systems to fit the talent they have by worse draft position due to a meaningless win or two following bad years.

    As to your question regarding Mahomes, no, I don't think Mac would have taken him at #2, BUT if the Jets were drafting #3 instead of the Bears it might have affected their trade up plans. SF may have wanted more for the Bears to move up two spots, and the Bears may have offered us that trade instead. Even if not, in the 2nd round, would Mac still have taken Marcus Maye rather than Forrest Lamp? In the 3rd round, would he have passed on Alvin Kamara instead of trading down? Would it have affected his decision in the 4th round?

    The other thing I'll add is that more often the Jets have not had a chance to draft a QB or elite edge rusher because of where they were picking, than their simply passing on that player. I've been following the draft closely for the last 15-20 years, and they have consistently missed out on those two positions because of where they have been drafting. They have great seasons the year before a very good draft, and they have lousy seasons the year before a weak/lousy draft. This franchise is cursed.
     
    #140 NCJetsfan, Dec 10, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018

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