Question for old-school Jets fans-Ken O'Brien

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BuddyRyans46, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. BuddyRyans46

    BuddyRyans46 Active Member

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    I remember Ken O'Brien QB'ing the Jets back in the 80's, and I was just reviewing his stats via profootballreference.com. Something that jumped out at me, was the utterly PHENOMENAL Pro Bowl season O'Brien had in 1985. He threw for over 3,800 yards (which was A LOT of yardage back in 1985), 25 TDs to only 8 INTS (obviously anything over 3:1 is a great TD to INT ratio) and a 60.9 Comp % (once again, but mid 80's standards pretty damn good, esp for qbs not in a west-coast scheme). He actually LED the league in average yards per attempt and in Int %.

    So my question is for old school Jets fans is this...why did he NEVER come CLOSE to duplicating the astounding success he had in 1985? Hell, 1985 was his first full season a starter, his 2nd season in the league, so it would stand to gather that he would have continued to improve as he gained more experience. Yet in looking at his stats for the rest of his career, he never had a season that even REMOTELY resembled the one he had in 1985. Why is that? Did the Jets have a great OC in 1985 who left the team after the season? Did they lose a ton of offensive weapons, after that season, whom they never replaced for the duration of O'Brien's career? Did O'Brien get injured after that season or something? Did the league's DC's "figure Ken O'Brien out" after that season or something?

    I find it hard to understand how a guy could have a phenomenal season like that, and then basically be a mediocre QB for the rest of his career.
     
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  2. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Omg Buddy ...that's like 33 years ago

    I can't say I remember why that is..maybe the guy went through a bad divorce or something and was never the same
     
  3. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    O'Brien was before I was born, but from what I've heard from older fans, injuries and a bad OL contributed to O'Brien's struggles.
     
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  4. LongIslandBlitz

    LongIslandBlitz Well-Known Member

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    Call up Francesa we are on to NE
     
  5. JoeWalton

    JoeWalton Well-Known Member

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    After an excellent 1985 season by O'Brien and the Jets, the ensuing 1986 season basically put a dagger into O'Brien and the franchise for many years to come. In '86, the Jets flew out of the gate at 10-1 and a Jets-Giants Super Bowl was looking like something which was very possible. But then, during another classic Jet collapse, the wheels came off and the Jets lost five in a row to finish the season at 10-6. But wait, this story gets much, much better.

    Getting back to O'Brien, he was benched for Pat Ryan during the end of season five game skid. Despite losing five games in a row at the end of the season, the Jets still made the playoffs as a Wild Card (the only team to ever do so after losing their last five). The Jets, led by Pat Ryan, easily disposed of the KC Chiefs in the wild card playoff game at Giants Stadium. Next up was the Division Playoff game at Cleveland, with the winner facing Denver in the AFC Championship.

    Against Cleveland, Freeman McNeil scored on a long rung to put the Jets up by ten points with a little over four minutes to play in the 4th quarter. On the ensuing possession, Cleveland had their backs up against the wall, when on 2nd and 14 from their own 16 yard line, Mark Gastineau and Carl Howard both roughed up Kosar on a late hit. The fifteen yard penalty on Gastineau would change the entire complexion of the game and Cleveland came back to win in OT. Arguably, this game sent the Jets and Ken O'Brien into a downward spiral which they were unable to recover from.

    It is of note that O'Brien did play the second half of the Cleveland game, although he did not start. I do not recall if Ryan was injured or pulled. As mentioned, the 23-20 overtime loss to the Browns did have a lingering affect on not only O'Brien, but the entire franchise. O'Brien lost his confidence and would never again have a season like '85 or the start of '86 when the Jets were 10-1.

    By the way, the full '86 Jets-Browns playoff game is on youtube and is a classic (despite the unfavorable result for the Jets), although long time Jet fans will probably have nightmares if they watch it again. It is one of those games that reminds you of that sick feeling you had in the pit of your stomach when watching it live back then.
     
  6. fggrimes

    fggrimes Well-Known Member

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    I was in my early teens at the time, so I can only go on what I remember from the time. O'Brien had a very strong and accurate arm (but lacked Marino's quick release). Problem for him was he'd stand in the pocket as long possible looking for a play downfield, he was as mobile as a statue, he had a mediocre (to put it charitably) pass blocking O-Line, and he took a beating. My personal belief is O'Brien's demise is probably largely due to some of the beatings he took. Still, for about a five year period he was about as good an NFL QB a team could hope for.

    Looking back, I was too young to remember Namath playing, but O'Brien might arguably be the second best QB this franchise has ever had (he's certainly the best throwing QB they have had since Namath). His worst sin was being the last QB drafted prior to Marino. As for the '83 Draft, he wasn't as good as Elway, Kelly, or Marino, but he was closer in passing talent to them, than he was to Blackledge and Eason.
     
  7. BuddyRyans46

    BuddyRyans46 Active Member

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    FrankGrimes, thanks for your response, I appreciate it. I agree with just about everything you said, the only place where we quibble is your statement that "for about a 5 year period O'Brien was as good an NFL QB as a team could hope for." In reviewing his stats, he really only had two really good seasons...1985 and 1986. After that, he was pretty mediocre/average at best. and even in 1986, he threw a ton of INTS (20).
     
  8. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    Jets had some brutal drafts and Joe Walton was the head coach in 85 and then they fired him in 89. That also was Al Toon's rookie season. He and Wesley Walker were a great duo when they could stay on the field. O'Brien was one of those QB's that needed a strong OL and massive time to throw. He took a lot of sacks and contrast that Dan Marino who release was lightning quick.
     
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  9. BuddyRyans46

    BuddyRyans46 Active Member

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    thanks for the response, boozer32. I appreciate it.
     
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  10. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    The picking of Ken O'Brien over Dan Marino, after already years of wandering in the desert, convinced me that the Jets were doomed. I don't know why I continued to root for them. I should've cut them loose then. But the O'Brien years were the last of any kind of offense-driven approach. It seemed like his failure convinced Hess & Co. that the way to get back to the SB was "Defense Wins Championships"...it helped that the '86 Bears actually won a SB using that recipe. From that time until now, the Jets have been chasing after a SB using that outdated formula. after 30=something years you'd think they'd try something different, but then they ARE known as the SAME Old Jets, right?

    As for Kenny O, he won one of the greatest games I ever saw, a shootout with Marino, September 21 1986, 51-45. That was pretty much his last hurrah though. He wasn't even in the same world as Namath (or Marino or Elway). The Jets haven't had anyway like Namath, but I see that "something" in Darnold that reminds me of Joe Willie - I hope he proves to be.
     
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  11. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Kenny O'Brien took an epic beating during the 1985 season. His offensive lines were consistently Bottom-5 in the league for his entire career, but in 1985 the offense was built around throwing deep to Wesley Walker and Al Toon. Like Miami, the Jets were a dynamic deep-throwing offense. Coupled with the terrible offensive line, it resulted in tons of sacks. He led the league in being sacked that year. This continued through the first couple games of 1986 and then he took a real beating and overnight, Joe Walton changed his offensive philosophy on 3rd downs. Presumably, he believed one day O'Brien would drop back, get annihilated (again) and he'd lose him for the season ... so in response, every 3rd and long become either a draw up the middle or a screen pass in the flat to the tailback. EVERY 3rd and long. And just like that, the offense became mediocre to bad, despite having a two Pro-Bowl wide receivers, a Pro-Bowl tight end, a good QB and above average backs.

    Then Freeman McNeil got dinged up, then Wesley Walker got old, then Al Toon got the concussions, then O'Brien got happy feet ... all the while, we had terrible draft after terrible draft, and bad offensive line became even worse.

    I'm convinced that if the Jets had drafted Marino (and O'Brien gone to the Dolphins), you'd be asking, "Marino seemed to have so much talent, why did he flame out after 5 seasons?" and O'Brien would have had a one-step-below HOF career. He was a much better player than some of his contemporaries that get much more publicity - he was better than Phil Simms and Bernie Kosar, but not quite as good as Boomer Esiason and Warren Moon.
     
    #11 Unhappyjetsfan, Nov 12, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  12. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    It's worth noting that the Dolphins had one of the best O-lines in the league --along with the Redskins, Bengals, and Rams-- in the early-to-mid 1980's. The Jets' O-line was just okay--quite decent at run blocking, not too good at pass protection. Kenny took a ton of hits, and I always felt that Marino, with his quick release, would have mitigated the Jets' average line, while Kenny's oh-so-slow release and stellar accuracy would have done better with the Dolphins than he did in NY.
     
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  13. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Jinx!
     
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  14. BuddyRyans46

    BuddyRyans46 Active Member

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    This was a VERY insightful and interesting post, Thanks, UnhappyJetsfan.
     
  15. RPOZ51

    RPOZ51 Well-Known Member

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    Because . . . Jets.
     
  16. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    Like others have said, GREAT arm and accuracy.... unfortunately that came with a long delivery and holding the ball too long. That was a bad mix behind an O-line that had questionable pass pro (decent in the running game though)..... He also didnt like to throw the ball away (hence very low INT rate) but that also resulted in him taking some poundings (that was before today's "protect the QB" rules)

    Think Drew Bledsoe meets David Carr = tragic ending


    OOOOOHHHHBRRRRIIIIEN TO WAAAAALLKKKERRRRRR
     
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  17. sec314

    sec314 Well-Known Member

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    It's very easy to explain. He was sacked 62 times, 62 TIMES in 1985 and was never the same. If we had Ken O'Brien during the Rex Ryan years we would have won 2 super bowls. He was beaten to death that year and others and he was as good in the pocket as Eli Manning. Zero es capability, as simple as that. http://www.nfl.com/player/keno'brien/2502323/careerstats
     
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  18. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    No problem.
     
  19. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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    joe walton
    offensieve line
    failure to replace skill players.
     
  20. BuddyRyans46

    BuddyRyans46 Active Member

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    Thanks for the stat, sec314. I didn't realize that O'Brien was sacked that many times in 1985.
     

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