The Future at QB

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by DarrelleRevis.Human?, Aug 17, 2018.

?

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  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Don't forget a Marcus Maye type talent (if we've truly turned things around).
     
  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I think it was a perfectly valid question. While it's not likely that Darnold could wind up being as bad a Leinart, it is possible. More likely is that he could sustain a serious injury playing behind our OL, and then suffer lasting effects from it. Either way, it would be the typical snake bit bad luck that the Jets have had in the past. Hopefully, those days are over. They certainly seem to be. I'll feel a lot better once Darnold has "arrived" as the QB we think and hope he can be.
     
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  3. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    NC, the hypothetical question has only one legitimate answer. That answer being, Yes it would look bad trading Teddy since Darnold did not pan out and ended up being another Leinart and Teddy went on to have success.

    Now he wants to sign him to a multi year contract, so his true feeling is that he wants Teddy to be signed. That’s not a hypothetical opinion, it’s a statement of what he wants done.

    I have already stated my opinion on this matter in another thread. Start Teddy, half way through give Darnold the keys to the team and let the Jets future with their potential FQB begin.
     
    #23 Red Menace, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  4. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    Good teams don't get rid of good young QBs.

    It's not a difficult call to make Darnold and Bridgewater make the team. You never know what can happen.

    The 39 years old journeyman QB is the odd man out. Give him a job on the coaching staff or make him captain of the flight crew where he can cheer his lungs out after every Darnold first down conversion. LOL
     
  5. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I understand the dilemma, Teddy might want to leave and become a starter for another team. So really the question is how much do the jets give him as a backup?

    The jets are giving out $10 million a year to below average QBs like Mccown and Fitzpatrick, how much will it take to keep Teddy?
     
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  6. Harpua

    Harpua Well-Known Member

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    If past failures keep you from taking future chances you will never be successful.
     
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  7. DarrelleRevis.Human?

    DarrelleRevis.Human? Well-Known Member

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    1/7 is not the type of odds I would bet losing out on the best QB we've had in 11 years for. Not to mention even if Maye (who I LOVE) is the next Eric Berry giving up a starting QB is still not worth a non-QB in return.

    EDIT: I will make one exception that is present right now. If the Raiders were willing to trade Mack for Bridgewater and whatever ancillary pick to make that deal happen I would roll those dice.

    The question is hypothetical, my opinion in response to that question is not.

    Teddy wouldn't sign with the Jets to be a backup, nor has he given any reason to assign him to that position. By all reports he has been just as good as the other 2 QBs in camp (some saying better others worse) but he's clearly been spot on in preseason, and most importantly he's taken hits and been able to scramble with ease which is the only true concern since he's a known commodity. As far as salary and duration I outlined that in post #16.

    This isn't a pessimistic statement by me, only a reality check of just how difficult drafting in the NFL is. QB in the hand is worth more than 2 ?? in the bush.
     
    #27 DarrelleRevis.Human?, Aug 18, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  8. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I know and I was supporting your argument and your opinion. However it might take a lot more money if his agent feels he’s proven his worth.

    My concern with the jets is the oline, it plagued Bridgewater in Minnesota and it might get him hurt here as well.

    I also believe Mccown is the starter, Bowles could surprise us and give Teddy the job but Mccown has the veteran chip that Bowles likes.


    My opinion is jets should start Teddy half way in the season give reins to Darnold. It’s what the Rams did with Goff, Jets should do the same.

    The future is with Darnold not Teddy.
     
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  9. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Common denominator is our GMs poor decision making that will affect ALL QBs i.e. OL affords little or no protection

    It's 2 steps forward and 3 steps back with MM...why???

    Where's the planning??
     
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  10. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    It's not even close to the biggest question ever for the Jets. It isn't even a valid question. There isn't a scenario alive, unless of a catastrophic injury to Darnold, where Teddy should or will be here past this season. If that. No chance.

    It's fun talk to debate the merits of keeping him around for ever imaginable and idiotic reason we can come up with but it's still not happening. For all the reasons people give who are in the we have to keep him corner. He's too young and still has the potential to be a quality starting QB. At 25 he's not giving up on that idea. It's that drive that allowed him to come back, he's sited that way. He's not signing up to back up Darnold. And for all he's shown he isn't appreciably better, of at all, than we've seen from Darnold to keep him around as an option as the full time starter past a few early games. They're pretty even and Darnold hasn't scratched the surface yet.

    The real elephant in the room is what happens when Teddy gets hit wrong. He's still a huge question mark health wise. Bradford always looks healthy until that one hit send him back to the IR. I'm afraid for Teddy every time he's hit. I'm afraid it's just a matter of time. Who wouldn'?
     
    #30 LF911SC, Aug 18, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Just because we don't know what Mac's plan is doesn't mean that he doesn't have a plan, or didn't have to adjust his plan because OL he wanted were drafted by other teams ahead of him. Several posters speculated that some of Mac's trade downs over the previous couple of drafts were due to OL he wanted being taken. We'll probably never know if that is true. I think it's totally fair to say that perhaps his plan was flawed, that he hasn't prioritized the OL, and also that he has made some poor decisions in taking other position players rather than addressing the OL.

    The Jets had a LOT of holes, and every NFL team needs a couple of star-type players, so imo it's easy to understand why Mac (a young GM eager to make his imprint on the team) stayed put and took the elite players that fell to him in Williams and Adams rather than trading down. IMO it wasn't "poor decision making", but rather a matter of priorities. Perhaps an experienced GM might not have followed that path, but then again, he might have. I agree that the OL hasn't been a priority and I do think that is a mistake, one that I hope that Mac will soon realize and correct. In spite of all the draft picks the Jets had used in previous years on D and the DL in particular, the Jets had little to show for it on defense and they had a defensive-minded HC. If a HC and GM are going to have a good working relationship, especially as peers rather than boss/employee, then Mac had to give Bowles some love on D. I was as sick of all the D picks as anyone and no love going to the offense, but I can understand why the D has been a focus.

    In addition, the 2018 and 2015 drafts have been widely known and accepted as having been poor drafts for OL.

    I also get the feeling that if Mac had traded down and taken lesser prospects and not taking Leonard Williams or Jamal Adams or some of the other very good young players we have, that some posters here and the media would have ripped Mac for that or for ignoring those other positions. In this most recent draft, we didn't have a 2nd round pick. In the 3rd round Mac took Nathan Shepherd who looks like he is going to be a real force on the DL, and that was a need. Following are the OL that were drafted in the 3rd round after the Jets took Shepherd: Geron Christian, T, Redskins; Martinas Rankin, C, Texans; Orlando Brown, T, Ravens; Joe Noteboom, T, Rams; Alex Cappa, T, Bucs; and Mason Cole, C, Cardinals. In addition, Brandon Parker, T, was taken by the Raiders with the 1st pick of the 3rd round. I don't pretend to remember how each of those guys were ranked, but do remember reading up and researching several of those players and they didn't sound like good prospects to me. I hadn't heard of Shepherd, but once I read about him following the draft, I loved the pick. Who would you have drafted instead of Shepherd? In the 4th round, the Jets took Chris Herndon, TE. The following OL prospects were taken after Herndon: Brian Allen, C, Rams; Rick Leonard, T, Saints; and Will Richardson, T, Jaguars. Would you have taken any of those guys over Herndon? If so, whom you have taken?

    The 2017 draft was an exceptional year for OL. IMO, that's when Mac should have loaded up on OL. It had a number of very good OL prospects. In the 2017 draft, the Jets took Jamal Adams at #6. There was no OL ranked or taken in the top 10. The first OL taken was Garrett Bolles, T, by the Broncos at #20. Would you have had Mac bypass taking Adams, an elite talent and leader, trading down and taking Bolles or Ryan Ramczyk, T, who was the last pick of the 1st round by the Saints? I loved Ramczyk, but loved Adams more. If Mac could have found a trading partner, would taking Ramczyk and an additional 2 players in the 2nd and 3rd round (maybe even more compensation) have been better than taking Adams, who has HOF potential? Only time will tell. I will say that could have potentially been a better move, but then again, he would have had to have found someone who coveted Adams or another player still left and then taken the right players. Ramczyk started every game last season and was solid, and is supposedly primed to break out this season. He's playing RT for the Saints, however, and not LT. Would he have been our future LT and been really good, and would he have helped change the culture and provided the leadership the way Adams has and is? In the 2nd round of the 2017 draft, Mac took Marcus Maye. That has us set at the safety position for the next decade. Instead of Maye, he could have traded down and taken one of Ethan Pocic,C (Seahawks); Dion Dawkins, G (Bills); Taylor Moton, G, (Panthers) or perhaps traded up and taken either Cam Robinson, T (Jaguars) or Forrest Lamp, G (Chargers). I will say that the addition of Ramczyk, Lamp, Maye and Moton or Dawkins could quite possibly have been better than Adams and Maye, but again trade partners would have to have been found, and we don't know if those OL were liked by the Jets and all would have fit their blocking scheme.

    The 2016 draft had some great LT prospects (Ronnie Stanley and Laremy Tunsil) some pretty good RT prospects (Jack Conklin and Taylor Decker) and a very good C prospect (Ryan Kelly) that all were taken before the Jets pick. Mac tried to trade up for Tunsil, but was unable to. Mac took Darron Lee, which looks like a mistake. The only OL taken after Lee in the first round were Joshua Garnett, G (Niners) and Germain Ifedi, G, (Seahawks). I personally don't think 1st round picks should be used on OGs, even at the bottom of the round. Jason Spriggs, T (Packers) was an OT prospect I really liked, and he was taken 4 picks ahead of Hackenberg. Nick Martin, G (Texans) went the pick before the Jets. Even if either had still been available, Mac probably would have taken Hack, so that would definitely have been a mistake. Mac also could have tried to trade up for Spriggs or Martin, or stayed put and taken Cody Whitehair, C instead of Hack. In the 3rd round the OL who went before the Jets' pick (Jordan Jenkins) were Max Tuerk, C (Chargers); Shon Coleman, T (Browns); and Le'Raven Clark, T (Colts). I don't remember Tuerk, but I'm glad we didn't trade up for him. He only lasted one season with the Chargers, and is now with the Cardinals, and hasn't started a single game and has only appeared in 1 game in 2 years. I didn't like Shon Coleman but he started 16 games for the Browns last season. I liked Le'Raven Clark a lot, but he must not have been as good as I thought as he has only appeared in 23 games the last two seasons, starting only 8. He is the the Colts backup LT behind Anthony Costanzo. Mac perhaps should have traded up for Coleman or Clark, or stayed put or trade down. The two OL who were taken in that round following the Jets' pick were Graham Glasgow, G (Lions) and Rees Odhiambo, G (Seahawks). Glasgow has been a starter for the Lions, but Odhiambo has been a backup.

    So, there have been opportunities that Mac missed.in 2016 and 2017, and possibly 2015 and 2018 as well, but I don't have time to research those.
     
    #31 NCJetsfan, Aug 18, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  12. Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo Tomassi Well-Known Member

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    This. There were folks balking about taking Darnold because...USC.

    Moronic. Look at the PLAYER not the school.

    We whiffed on Gholston and possibly Lee.

    If we're in a position to take Nick Bosa next year and we don't because...you know...Ohio State...I will send Mac a very stern letter. And include a hot steaming dump in a zip lock bag.
     
  13. Harpua

    Harpua Well-Known Member

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    Yes drafting is difficult, but the more chances you have the more likely one of them is to be a success (unless your Idzik). That’s why successful teams trade down more often than trading up. We have terrible depth in several areas so the more picks the better.
     
  14. CBG

    CBG Well-Known Member

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    If anyone thinks that Bridgewater will be traded or that he WILL NOT or could not be here next year , let me ask what are tonights lotto # s I could use them ? What is to stop the Jets from tagging Teddy after this season ?
     
  15. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

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    This thread is really inane....seriously if anyone thinks the Jets took Teddy on, just for a few preseason games to trade him off and put all the pressure on a 21yo QB, is smoking some good weed. And with the state of flux the OL is in , Bowles can't be that stupid to allow the Jets to give him away.

    And besides, what would TB garner for picks and/or players enough to help the Jets's immediate needs at this stage? There's no logical sense to this at this point in time.

    Jets would not only be wise to start Teddy game 1,2,3,4 for Darnolds sake, but to also build on TB being more in demand for other teams and getting more for their trade.

    Ridding of him now with a 39yo old backup?!!? That's just too funny.
     
  16. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Sam Darnold. He is the #3 overall pick. This is common sense, folks! Darnold will play sooner than later. They gave up a lot for him. They won't be tagging Teddy or having any other long-term answer because Sam is it. That is how football works.

    Go back to the beginning:
    -Jets wanted Cousins.
    -Cousins signs with Vikings.
    -Jets sign McCown.
    -Jets sign Bridgewater.
    -Jets trade up from #6 to #3.
    -Somehow Sam Darnold falls to them at #3 overall.

    Maybe fans saw Hackenberg be terrible and not see the field for 2 years, but that is not the case with top QB picks.

    They signed Teddy for insurance. All they had was McCown, Petty and Hackenberg and the #6 overall pick at the time. Now they have Sam, so that is when trade rumors began to surface.
     
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  17. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

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    Very true, but when you have 'insurance' as you pointed out, do you cancel it if the item insured has not been determined to be 'safe'? That's like me canceling my home insurance 2 days before the weather forecasts a hurricane nearing.

    Let's make believe for a second that the opposing D is the hurricane, the OL is the house and the insured , a 21yo QB that hasn't played a down in a regular season game is inside that house. omg, lol.....
     
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  18. NYJalltheway

    NYJalltheway Well-Known Member

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    Nice little debate thread.

    Without reading any of the answers yet, I will say no it's not a good decision. A 3rd, or 2nd would be helpful, (maybe) but the situation of having Sam, and Teddy is WAY more assuring to me as a fan that we will have good QB play, which is the most important thing, than getting a 2nd, or 3rd round pick, and hoping that A. Sam works out, and also B. the draft pick is a really good starting player.

    I don't see any need to trade him away, unless it's a first round pick. I know that won't happen, but hey..Bradford got traded for a first round pick, so you never know.

    Besides, if we let him walk after the season, we'll get a conditional pick anyway. I just think the team shouldn't get too overconfident that everything is hunky dory.
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    In many ways, I agree with you. I think it is possible to get a 1st for Teddy if he starts vs the Giants and continues to play very well, and then starts the season for the Jets, plays well, has the Jets winning and then a starter for a playoff contender goes down with a season-ending injury.

    With regards to the conditional compensatory draft pick, that's not likely as the Jets will be big players in FA and that will negate the Jets getting a compensatory pick for Teddy.
     
  20. NYJalltheway

    NYJalltheway Well-Known Member

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    Excellent point. I did not think about that. Well, if the offer is right, then ok, but a 2nd to me is borderline.
     
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