For all the talks about needing a FQB

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by GasedAndConfused, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    3 of the 4 QBs left in the playoffs are not considered FQB by most

    keenum - a 29 year old journeman QB. spent most of his career as a back-up. UDFA

    Foles - 28 year old journeyman QB. spent most of his career as a back-up. 3rd round pick

    Bortles - drafted 3rd overall but has been close to being benched many times in his career. even another team made a comment that "if the game is on the line and the ball is in bortles hand, he's going to choke"

    Who got knocked out?

    Big Ben - won 2 or 3 SBs in his career and is a HOF QB. to be fair his numbers yesterday were off the charts. almost 500 yards and 4 TDs not including the "lateral TD" . Lost to bortles

    Matt Ryan - probably not HOF but a pro bowler most of his career and MVP candidate several years. a true FQB as well. lost to foles

    Drew Brees - HOF QB with many broken records, a SB win, and one of the best all time. Lost to keenum.


    Yeah brady is still left and likely the favorite, but could you imagine a Bortles and Keenum SB? it could happen
     
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  2. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    I would say the average Super Bowl wins for a FQB, over the life of their career, is 2.

    If the Jets won 2 SBs over the next 12 seasons with the new draft pick, I doubt it would be enough to satiate our fans.

    Brees has 1 title.
    Ryan hasn't won shit.
    Rivers hasn't won shit.
    Stafford hasn't won shit.
    Cam hasn't won shit.

    Just a few of the 2nd to top tier QBs who had not had much success winning SBs.

    The QB enables your team to be a factor every year, but the SB is won in the other phases of the game.

    I'm not sure why everyone around here thinks finding a FQB is going to magically equal success. The Jets have to get a ton of other decisions correct as well AND then the coaching staff has to put it all together.

    Even when you put it all together and you are a contender it STILL doesn't necessary go your way.

    Very frustrating.
     
    #2 GQMartin, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  3. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    honestly i'd call 2 on the high side. maybe bumped up because brady has 5 but outside of him

    Ben has 2 or 3

    Brees 1

    Peyton manning 2

    Russel wilson 1

    aaron rodgers 1

    elway won 2 but at the tail end

    marino got none


    besides that look at the FQB in the NFL without a ring
     
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  4. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    Refresh thread. I edited my post. =)
     
  5. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    nice
     
  6. macbk

    macbk Well-Known Member

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    I know for me, I literally just want to see 1 in my lifetime. I swear to the heavens, if I see one, I will be fine.
     
  7. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I'm right there with you. 1 before i die would make me happy as hell
     
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  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Simply finding a FQB (or potential one) isn't going to "magically make the Jets a success", and no one with any brains thinks so. But it IS a primary ingredient to building long term successs. Speaking for myself IDGAF about the Jets barely sneaking into the playoffs, one and done, and then missing out the next year - in short their usual cycle of mediocrity. I want to see a long term dynasty, a la NE or at least sustained success over decades like the Steelers, Packers, Giants, Cowboys, Broncos. To do that you need a FQB-level QB. Yes, you can win with an above average QB as long as you have superior pieces in all other phases, but how hard is that to achieve? All of those QBs you named allowed their teams to be in the hunt, but as you said, you do need the other parts of the team to deliver, however a top FQB allows you to overcome some shortcomings in those other areas.

    After 50 years of not having a FQB, and "coincidentally" not winning shit as you put it, maybe it's time the Jets returned to that 50 year old formula.
     
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  9. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    First of all, I think many people confuse franchise QB with elite QB, and they’re not the same thing. There have been maybe 4 elite QBs in the last 10-15 years - Brady, P. Manning, Brees, and Rodgers. These are the kinds of guys who can take a team to the Super Bowl every year, as long as the team around them is at least good, and who can single-handedly beat anyone. No one in their right mind would ever not want to have guys like this on their team, and fans of their teams idolize them. They are first-ballot Hall of Famers, and in the conversation for best QB of all time. Those guys have 9 Super Bowl wins and 13 Super Bowl appearances between them, all in the last 15 or so years, so any notion that they’re not worth what it costs to keep them is completely insane.

    A franchise QB is something very different. He is someone who is consistently reasonably effective, who is consistently in the top half of the league, who can sometimes win games for you, but probably not against the best of opponents. These are the guys who can win a Super Bowl, but only if they have a very good team around them (often a dominating defense) or get incredibly lucky. There are plenty of those guys - Roethlisberger, Wilson, Rivers, Ryan, Newton, Stafford, E. Manning, Luck, Palmer, Flacco. Teams are very happy to have that kind of stability and performance at the position for 10+ years, but particularly in the salary cap era they can become real drains on their team, and either be released while still somewhat effective or result in the rest of the team deteriorating. Fans often have a love-hate relationship with them, the hate coming particularly as they start to get older. Those guys have 6 Super Bowl wins and 10 appearances between them. As long as they’re good enough to lead a good team to the Super Bowl they’re definitely worth paying, but they cause lots of problems at the end of their careers.

    The point is that only one of the 20 starting QBs in the last ten Super Bowls wasn’t one of these guys - Colin Kaepernick in 2013 (Kurt Warner wasn’t on my list because he retired a while ago, but he was clearly also a franchise quarterback). This year is interesting because at least one more non-franchise QB will be added to the list, but there are caveats. Foles has had virtually nothing to do with the Eagles being here; Wentz, who played like an MVP, is the QB that mattered. If Philly is eliminated this week he’s a footnote. Unless Keenum suddenly is a star he’s different - a guy who had an a excellent year but wasn’t ever really considered to consistently be among the top quarterbacks in the league, who took his team to the Super Bowl. There were a bunch of those in the early 2000s (Grossman, Hasselbeck, McNabb, Delhomme, Brad Johnson, Gannon, Dilfer, Kerry Collins), but they’ve disappeared in the past 10 years. Could this be the start of a change as the Big 4 retire? I don’t know, but this year is definitely not enough evidence to make anyone think that acquiring a franchise quarterback isn’t still the #1 goal of any general manager or coach.

    And then there’s Bortles - a guy who was terrible and could be taken to the Super Bowl despite him, not because of him. If the Jags beat the Pats, and especially if they do it because of Bortles making big plays, it just might be the biggest upset in many many years.
     
    #9 statjeff22, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  10. Balance is critical in the NFL. However,unless you have an exceptionally rare combination of a dominant running game & defense, you have to be able to pass to win in today's NFL. You have to have big plays, be able to move the chains & convert in the red zone.It is a scoring league. Scoring should not be a massive challenge for a top NFL offense in 2018. We've had all these stubborn defensive types who w.o a FQB, lean on ball control,avoiding turnoversand trying to win up front. We've had some good RB's, some outstanding OLs & even a few big plays downfield but never a consistently effective or explosive passing attack able to impose their will on an opponent or imagine this: Mounting a comeback of more than 10 points when the D has a rough start..

    Having a franchise QB grants a team the ultimate component of consistency within a productive passing attack.Of course you still need 10 other guys to go along w. that as well as balance schematically. But your QB is your leader,he's your face in front of the media & he's who leads the most pivotal aspect of modern offensive football: The passing game. It's also a very difficult to position to get top end talent at. When a team are in position to grab one particularly with no one else in house, they must pounce.
     
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  11. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

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    All of the QB's left are better than McCown/Petty on way better teams with MUCH better coaching. So what's your point?
     
  12. Boomboom

    Boomboom Active Member

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    Nice just the excuse we need to draft a interior DLineman with the first pick. Sign keenum to a crazy contract after he chokes in the super bowl and proceed to win 5 games next year.
     
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  13. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    that the real FQBs all lost their games this week outside of brady, to much lesser ones. Point being while a FQB makes winning easier, it sure as shit isn't the only thing you need
     
  14. 6-10 once again

    6-10 once again Well-Known Member

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    Yes quite true but we all know that in the end the cream that is tom Brady will rise to the top and another super bowl will be won by a franchise QB, and the fans of the Vikings eagles and jags will be put in their rightful place...
     
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  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    No one has said that having a FQB is the only thing you need. But how about we try STARTING with that and building up around him? Or do we need to wait until we have that elusive impregnable defense in place first, like some seem to argue? The fact is that since Joe Namath the Jets have not taken a QB-centric approach to building the team. And yet that was the last time they were truly successful. Now more than ever the NFL is a QB-driven league and it's long past time the Jets accepted that.
     
  16. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    I found $100 bill today on the street. I think I’m going to quit my job and just wander the streets. I’m certain to find $100 on every street I walk down.

    Or perhaps exceptions don’t make the rule.
     
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  17. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I never said it wasn't
     
  18. Boomboom

    Boomboom Active Member

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    Well some of the FQB that we been talking about for years are old and past their prime besides Brady. Do you absolutely need a FQB to win? no you can have a defense carry you and have a semi good offense, but the thing with that is, this is an offensive driven league and there will be no consistancy without a really good offense year in and year out.

    Look at the Broncos now they wouldn't even be able to Buy themselves into the playoffs with that shit offense and their defences that hasn't been able to replicate what they did their championship year. it's hard for defences to be world beaters every year because of how the NFL is set up.

    If a game was on the line with 1 minute to go would you rather have Rodgers or Foles as your QB
     
  19. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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    the real issue is the QB's listed have given their respective teams stability at the most important position on the field - thereby allowing the team to upgrade other important positions and put themselves in a position for success.
     
  20. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    OP is misleading.

    Brady is the best QB in the league, and the Pats will probably win the SB.
    Keenum played like a franchise QB this year, he was top 10 in passer rating.
    The Eagles got the bye and home field advantage because of Wentz.
    Bortles and the Jags are the exception and will probably get throttled Sunday.
     
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