Thank God we didn't tank.

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Unhappyjetsfan, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    So basically what your saying is if we don't trade up to get the top pick were screwed??? ;)
     
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  2. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    This is not a Strategy man...but I get your venting that "we suck at this ..so why bother TRYING"

    Listen I was brought up in a family who taught me winners never quit and quitters never win

    Hope and pray the Johnsons GIVE UP and SELL the team to someone like the Maras Rooneys etc who demand WINS and managers who can make SMART decisions
     
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  3. NYJFan10

    NYJFan10 Well-Known Member

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    Because there are other positions on the roster to evaluate too. You think if we had scattershot Petty or hopeless Hack playing the whole season that Robbie Anderson and Kearse would have broken out the way they did? They've already evaluated their young QB's, just cause we haven't seen them stink for that long doesn't mean they haven't already come to a decision.

    As for this idea they should have won 2-3 games, show me the Andrew Luck in this draft. Show me the Peyton Manning. None of these guys are guarantees, and you don't need to be in the top five for the almighty QB anyway. Hell they could have drafted Watson last year.
     
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  4. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    This was his career year. 94.5 was 2nd best in his entire career. [He once posted 104.5 through relief appearance.] 18 TD is his career best. And 5-8 is also his second best.

    Jesus. Fuck me.
     
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  5. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure you misinterpreted the "63% success rate with QBs in round 1". The 63% I think is the number that started at least half the games in their career. I guess if you consider players like JaMarcus Russell successful then you might have a point but even starting half your games as a 1st round pick is not a real accomplishment since teams will generally run that 1st round pick into the ground trying to get them to pick up the game at the NFL level. Sanchez is another that according to your stat is successful.

    And calling Trubisky a winner when he is currently 3-6 as a starter is laughable. Hell, 3 of 5 you listed have lifetime records under .500 as a starter.

    Between 2006 and 2015, not including the last 2 years because you can just as easily see one flame out like RG III (Another who would be considered successful by your metric), 12 of 26 could possibly be called successful but those 12 include guys like Tannehill, Winston, Cutler, Bridgewater, Bortles and Mariota so you could realistically cut the number down to 6-7 out of 26. This is not a question if you would take those guys over who is currently on the Jets roster, it is a question if you would want to build a team around them.

    Yes, of course a 1st round QB is going to give you the best chance of getting a winner but it is not even close to a 63% success rate. Try closer to 25-30%
     
    FJF likes this.
  6. Let’s make sure we have clean lines..

    Anyone who doesn’t want a QB in round 1 or sees no need for a trade up doesn’t Want the riddle solved.Theyre completely content having short term dog shit behind center & would rather continue filling holes on paper like we’ve done for most of the team’s existence.

    Don’t insult our intelligence w the talk of non 1st round QBs.thats just an excuse to not go QB in round 1.You guys have said that every year going back decades.Hell in 82 before Roselle said it was KOB he started with “Quarterback..” and there were already jet fans screaming in horror!Theres a segment of the fan base that would rather fill a hole in round 1 than embrace risk & a chance at real change.

    If that’s how you guys feel fine.Im sure you’ll get your wish & we’ll go Defense AGAIN..take some long shot QB from Division II in round 6 who won’t even make it out of training camp.Brady?Montana?Theisman?Fouts?Brees? More like Tajh Boyd & chuckle Clements.Championship!
     
  7. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Really? Developing young players isn't a strategy? Tanking for a top pick goes against the very idea of "winners never quit and quitters never win".

    I guess buying lottery tickets is a better retirement plan than working hard, saving and investing for the future, too.
     
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  8. Just come out & say you don't wanna address QB...it's the same set of excuses every single year as to why we shouldnt go QB in round 1 like every other stinking franchise seems to be able to figure out except us. You don't want a QB...fair enough.

    What defensive position do you want the team to select this season? Not that I have any intention of caring what that position is..no QB & I'm out along w. every other fan he feels the same way I do.

    How will you feel come April when a half dozen teams come away w. a QB & hope for the future & we come away w. another Corner or DE? Mighty tough pill to swallow..unless of course you don't want a QB..
     
    #68 KurtTheJetsFan, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2017
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  9. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I think Darnold is a better draft prospect than Luck was. It doesn't mean he will turn out to be a better pro player (or even a good pro player), it just means that I think he's demonstrated he's more likely to become a great pro player at the same point in their college careers (just prior to the draft).
     
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  10. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    HA!

    My point is that this coaching staff, while it has plenty of issues, is the first one the Jets have had in years that actually seems to be developing young talent. While we haven't seen them do it at the QB position yet, at least they're doing it somewhere on the roster.

    There is no doubt this franchise needs a QB, and it needs to be as close to a sure-fire FQB as possible. If they don't select a QB, I hope they at least set up for a QB pick next year by loading up on Offensive Linemen so that when they do bring in a QB, he has some protection.

    The only thing worse than picking the next Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf would be picking the next David Carr, i.e.: having a real FQB but getting him killed before he ever develops.

    I'm all about getting THE RIGHT QB in round 1, even if it takes a massive trade to get the guy. The question is, do you have faith in this GM and Scout team to make the right pick? How many years is it going to cost this franchise if this team picks another Mark Sanchez? A decade? More if they pay a high cost to trade up.

    If, as most of the posters on here seem to think, Bowles and his staff aren't going to be around for long, might it not be better for the Jets to pick a LT in the first, maybe a real pass rusher and a Guard this year so the next staff can pick a QB that fits the system they're going to bring in?
     
  11. I see what your saying & you make some good points.That said I see going OL is just another excuse not to draft skill.While OL is a major need I’d rather see it addressed in FA where we’d have success bringing in guys like Faneca,Carpenter..in other words it doesn’t signal real change..

    Let’s bare in mind though that selecting a QB in round 1 that busts is nowhere near the disaster it was before the rookie wage scale..You can survive a miss.

    Also..I’d hope the need for a FQB is is bigger than just the coach.From a longer scope this is the heaviest QB laiden draft in at least a decade..arguably the most QB starved team in football is now gonna shy away bc the coach hates offense? You maybe onto something but the stands will be empty,the blogs will be salty & TB/Mac will have their resumes all over NFL job boards..
     
    #71 KurtTheJetsFan, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2017
  12. dman928

    dman928 Well-Known Member

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    Super Bowl QB's taken in first Round

    Joe Namath, NYJ 1965
    Len Dawson, KC 1957
    Earl Morrall, BAL 1956
    Craig Morton, DAL 1965
    Bob Griese, MIA 1967
    Bill Kilmer, WAS 1961
    Terry Bradshaw, PIT 1970
    Craig Morton, DEN 1965
    Jim Plunkett, OAK 1971
    Dan Marino, MIA 1983
    Jim McMahon, CHI 1982
    Tony Eason, NE 1983
    Phil Simms, NYG 1979
    John Elway, DEN 1983
    Doug Williams, WAS 1978
    Jim Kelly, BUF 1983
    Troy Aikman, DAL 1989
    Steve Young, SF 1984s
    Drew Bledsoe, NE 1993
    Steve McNair, TEN 1995
    Trent Dilfer, BAL 1994
    Kerry Collins, NYG 1995
    Ben Roethlisberger,
    Peyton Manning, IND 1998
    Rex Grossman, CHI 2003
    Eli Manning, NYG 2004
    Aaron Rodgers, GB 2005
    Joe Flacco, BAL 2008
    Cam Newton, CAR 2011
    Matt Ryan, ATL 2008
     
  13. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Jets seem set at WRs. Kearse/Anderson/Enunwa/Stewart/Hansen is as good as it gets. Seriously.

    ASJ could definitely benefit from some catching improvement, but he's been a major addition to the roster that just didn't have TE before. Eric Tomlinson has been impressing, and then there is Jordan Leggett. I'd say, with some development, Jets are actually set at TE as well.

    RB - Jets do need some major improvement there.

    From all the skill position, maybe RB is the biggest need.

    ============================

    If it is the 1st round QB, so be it. I am not against it by any stretch. Whatever it is - JUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SORRY OFFENSIVE LINE. Starting with a center. Fuck it - Richburg would be a UFA come next spring. He's going to be a major improvement over Wesley Johnson. [I am NOT saying Richburg would be an instant savior at C. He's a mediocre center at best. And mediocre is a major improvement. Jesus fucking Christ.]

    ============================

    Now I am looking at OLB FAs. Devon Kennard from the Giants looks promising at 26. [He's UFA.]
     
    #73 Zach, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  14. We appear set at WR however I’d like to see a short area WR to compliment all the intermediate/deep guys who can move the chains & break a few long ones after the catch.Maybe Stewart is that guy..we’ll just have to wait & see...also we lack a true number 1. These aren’t pressing needs but at least worth considering.

    RB is the big need outside of QB in the skill. Only worth taking 1st round if they’re 3 down backs who can block,catch & make plays in space.

    I’m with you Richburg.Hes steady but unspectacular..a drastic upgrade over Wesley Johnson.
     
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  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I echo Kurt's post - you make some good points, and I won't reiterate what he's already said, but I would make the point that drafting Sanchez didn't set the franchise back. Allowing all the skill talent around him to evaporate and not replacing it did. He was no FQB, but he was above average before he got hurt in that stupid P.S. game, and would probably have improved. I know this is a minority opinion here, but Sanchez wasn't the problem, the FO and CS were bigger problems.
     
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  16. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    You're right that cap-wise, drafting a QB isn't as big a risk as it used to be. That's not really what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about time and missed opportunities.

    Make no mistake-- IN TODAY'S NFL, QB IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE FIELD.

    If you swing and miss on a top prospect, it usually means a change in coaching staff, a change in GM, and probably 3-5 years wasted giving him a shot and trying to put a team around him.

    In my humble opinion, these are the IDEAL conditions under which a team picks a potential FQB: 1: Picked a great young LT in the last 3 years and he's progressing well (bonus points for additional young, quality O-linemen). 2: Have a coaching staff (at least an offensive system) in place with a reasonable expectation that it will be in place for the next 3 years, minimum. 3: Have at least a couple of elite skill position players in place who already know the system.

    OBVIOUSLY, you can't have all those things all the time, and OBVIOUSLY, having all those thing in place doesn't guarantee the right QB is coming out when you need him to, or that your scouts won't screw the pooch. BUT I believe having those things in place creates the BEST POSSIBLE CIRCUMSTANCE for a young QB prospect to actually develop into a FQB.

    I am just pointing out that the QBs who are successful (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Roethlisberger, etc.) in the league are the ones who had several years (in some cases, whole careers) in one system early in their careers while they were getting the hang of playing in this league.

    How many offensive systems have we been through since Brady has been the QB in NE? Sure, they've had different OC's, and the play calls have been tailored to different players over the years, but the system hasn't changed much.

    I'm not saying we should keep Bowles (though I don't dislike him as much as many on here do), and I'm not saying we shouldn't pick a QB at the top of the draft: I'm saying that IF we keep Bowles, THEN we should draft for the offensive line in this draft. Let the 2019 new coaching staff pick the QB, or, if Bowles lights it up and earns an extension, then let him pick a QB. What if there's no great prospect in 2019???? That's always a possibility--and it's the best argument for drafting a QB whenever you can find one. Above all else, I fully support picking a QB (even a "mortgage the future" trade up for a QB), as long as the FO is willing to do whatever it takes to put him in the best possible position to succeed. I would rather not take a QB, and settle for a safe pick of an OL or a LB than invest the franchise in a high first round QB and not give him a decent O-line, decent weapons, and system continuity.

    I don't see much evidence that this franchise is there right now.
     
  17. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Remember that Todd Blackledge was the 2nd QB off the board in the best QB draft of all time, and Elway never played a down for the team that drafted him, and none of the others ever won a Super Bowl....Being a QB laden draft guarantees nothing, results-wise.

    Just a thing to keep in mind....

    OTOH--The Jets have nothing at QB right now. That does guarantee something---FAILURE.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I CAN guarantee that there are NO guarantees. So trying to wait for a perfect alignment of conditions so that you don't "waste" your pick of a potential FQB isn't going to really help. If you need a FQB and there are potential FQBs at the time you pick, you need to grab the one you think is the best. You might swing and miss for several reasons, One your evaluation was off target and the kid just doesn't have what it takes. Two, he has what it takes, but the surrounding cast he plays with sucks and he can't over come that, especially early in his career. Three, the coaching sucks and the system isn't compatible with his strengths. Of course it can be a combination of all of these. But the bottom line is that this year there are 5-6 legitimate prospects and the Jets need to figure out which one is the best for them and go all out to get him before they even think of drafting another position.
     
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  19. I see where your coming from..and you aren’t wrong. There are definitely advantages to having pieces already in place so the QB can hit the ground running. Jets do have a decent corps in place in terms of TE/WR. They’ll have the ammunition to address RB as well as OL in both FA & the draft. All & all it might be the best surrounding cast already in place among the QB needy teams.Not great but hey these are teams generally picking in the top 1p

    But it’s a double edged sword.Teams dont really get to choose when top QBs can be made available to them in the draft.Passing on one could be more fatal than missing on the one they select. It’s become a lot harder to find legit QB in later roundsThe stock is drastically inflated.But hey it’s a lifeline.The league is so QB oriented now it’s difficukt balancing act.We’re so barren at QB heading into next year they maybe forced to draft a QB & they won’t be able to wait beyond early round 2;And that’s if they’re lucky
     
  20. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Wow Kurt..you must be a lawyer...trying to explain to some posters here what we need to do at QB is like arguing before before the Supreme Court ahahah...and they still don't get it...duh

    Please ...save your energy some people on here just ain't worth it
     

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