Are There Any Jehovah Witnesses On Here

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by jetophile, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Got no problem at all with people refusing medical treatment on religious or any other grounds.
     
  2. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    What about when they are refusing to treat their minor child, for something that is easily treatable? Sure if an adult doesn't want treatment that's fine by me, child is a different story.
     
  3. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I don't disagree whatsoever, and it is certainly a slippery slope for sure, but good luck with that. I should know, will fully explain another time.==> When I was posting last night, I had to give up on an edit because I kept getting that bizarre Error Message from the site (see previous page). I think the difference maker here is that it involved a 100% preventable death of a full-term baby, not just the woman who was dying. I realize they shouldn't and can't intervene, but it wasn't just her own life that was involved. I get it, believe me, I get it all too well. It's really more the fact that I can't stand this organization. They're leeches and emotional vampires even though the lower rungs do it 100% free of all malice. At least things like Sikhism make lyrical poetic sense and feed destitute people out of true goodness that comes from a pure place (Sikhs are great peeps, btw). JWs? Testify! Recruit! JWs are just flat out brainwashed, and I'm tellin' ya, Mr. Watchtower is living high on the hog. The higher ups are gazillionaires and they're about as Jesusy as that scumbag Robert Coy who just got re-outed in FL (Megachurch). No way JWs tax exempt status ever gets challenged, though.

    There are several cases out there where this has happened with JWs, including one in Philly, PA and then the parents of the dead woman and baby sued the hospital relentlessly for malpractice BECAUSE THEY DIED - when she signed consent forms and her family kept telling hospital staff to essentially let her bleed out from a C-Section with a dead grandbaby on top of it . . . so they did. This particular case involved a procedure to recycle her own blood if she went into distress, which she fully consented to because of her refusal of blood products, and when she was on the brink of dying, they pleaded with the family re: a transfusion because she was hemorrhaging so much, there wasn't enough of her own blood to sustain her. They said no. And then they turned around and sued. Several judges later got fed up and threw the case out, which was the right decision. Can't have it both ways.

    That aside, F child abuse/sexual abuse. The fines have been going on since 2016, and the only thing the Elders turned over about covering it up was something so incredibly redacted, it's laughable. Any religious organization that protects pedophiles on bullshit grounds deserves nothing but contempt. Where is your love of the Lord when it comes to basic conscience? Fukk them. I hope it hits a billion and they're forced to pay it.
     
  4. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    As usual you beat me as I was contemplating the bust of Homer.
     
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  5. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Much trickier issue, sure, but who gets to raise your kids, you or some collective wisdom out there in the brooding omnipresence? No easy answer, but my feeling is parents are responsible for their kids and make millions of decisions for them that will affect them forever anyway. If their religious beliefs counsel them to do things I wouldn't do, as long as it doesn't harm me, I'm cool with it. Medical science isn't exactly batting a thousand either.
     
  6. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    I understand that point of view also but I am talking about clear cut cases like parents who refused to have a child taken in to close a small congenital hole in her heart. They prayed over her but of course that did nothing. Now the girl is 20 years old and has to carry an oxygen tank with her everywhere. She'd like to see her parents prosecuted.

    Or in another case, child contracted food poisoning, instead of getting her treatment they prayed, she threw up so much she ruptured her esophagus. That was also left untreated and she bled to death.

    I understand there is a slippery slope of when to step in but there needs to be a point where they do.
     
  7. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying I like it, but if someone's faith tells them this is what god intended for them, you and I are in no position to contradict them.
     
  8. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    Except the child is being subjected to what the parents faith tells them. Below is an except from an article on the subject. It's where I got the info from the previous 2 incidents I mentioned.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...us-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help

    Brian Hoyt, who lives in Boise, grew up in the Followers of Christ church.


    Hoyt is a fit 43, and lives in a well-scrubbed suburban neighborhood. He runs a successful window cleaning business that started with a squeegee mop and a bucket after his teenage escape from home left him with no cash and few educational opportunities. When I visited him, his house was being renovated – what was once a “barebones bachelor pad” now accommodates his partner and step-children. Slowly, Hoyt has developed the capacity for family life, after a life in the sect left him “unable to relate to families” for a long time. “I didn’t understand the concept,” he said.


    He lost his faith around the age of five, when a baby died in his arms in the course of a failed healing. While elders prayed, Hoyt was in charge of removing its mucus with a suction device. He was told that the child died because of his own lack of faith. Something snapped, and he remembers thinking: “How can this possibly be God’s work?” His apostasy set up lifelong conflicts with his parents and church elders.


    In just one incident, when he was 12, Hoyt broke his ankle during a wrestling tryout. “I ended up shattering two bones in my foot,” he said. His parents approached the situation with the usual Followers remedies – rubbing the injury with “rancid olive oil” and having him swig on Kosher wine.


    Intermittently, they would have him attempt to walk. Each time, “my body would just go into shock and I would pass out”.


    “I would wake up to my step-dad, my uncles and the other elders of the church kicking me and beating me, calling me a fag, because I didn’t have enough faith to let God come in and heal me, while my mom and my aunts were sitting there watching. And that’s called faith healing.”


    He had so much time off with the untreated fracture that his school demanded a medical certificate to cover the absence. Forced to take him to a doctor, his mother spent most of the consultation accusing the doctor of being a pedophile.


    He was given a cast and medication but immediately upon returning home, the medication was flushed down the toilet, leaving him with no pain relief. His second walking cast was cut off by male relatives at home with a circular saw.
     
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  9. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but you're approaching it from what you (and I) perceive to be the rational way parents are supposed to protect their kids. There are people out there who truly believe their god is more important than their kids. (Frankly, if you truly believe in your faith, I think you have to come to that conclusion, its just that most religions look at the protection of children as something that's consistent with their doctrine).

    All the science and the rationality in the world doesn't matter to some people. This is who they are. God is testing their faith. If they're not putting yours or my kids in harms way, I think we have to let them have at it.
     
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  10. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I know (see Justina Pelletier), but we're not talking about an 85 year old with children in their 50s arguing about pulling the plug. Not really sure how someone could live with themselves over allowing a full term infant to die because they're gonna be in some garden somewhere in the sky and shit. I'm waiting for someone to say that they won't vaccinate their children on religious grounds. You know that one is coming.

    Haha, found something hilarious a couple of weeks ago. 'How to get rid of Jehovah's Witnesses: Will you please get the Hell off of my porch? Spraying them with a hose is likely to be effective, but not recommended.' Pretty good. I saved the quotes, just have to find the link again.

    This website is glorious. The Royal Commission is kicking ass. I said it in the Pell thread. Of course we haven't heard anything about that slime bucket since 10/6 or so while I'm at it. It will drag on for years. Anyway, cult.

    https://jwvictims.org/
     
  11. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Crazy, but all true. Close friends of ours met in Bible College, three cool highly intelligent deeply religious (pounded into them) quirky creative kids, all now in their 30s. We're talkin' Church of the Nazarene religious. Fast forward, one is a closet Wiccan, the other one is a married lesbian with a kid and still a practicing Christian (our friends wound up legally adopting the daughter of her former partner - she's a wonderful well-adjusted child, now 11), and the last one, the baby of the family (here's where it gets weird) wound up getting married to a closet atheist. Our friends completely mellowed over the years as you can see, but that last one? When he came out as an atheist, it was like the guy was dying of terminal cancer with only two weeks to live. So ya got a Wiccan (which they kind of "know" about), a gay same sex-married daughter with a baby that they very much and obviously adore and accept , and another daughter with an atheist husband. That last one? Literally the end of the world as we know it.

    Here's another doozy. I used to go to a local gym after work and one of the women there was an off the wall Born Again. She was very sweet but her logic, well, let's just say there wasn't any. So one day I engaged her (ooof) in a discussion that she started about man having a choice. Bad idea. Yeah, man has a choice, alright. The victim does not. Ask Lisa Steinberg. Crickets. What about starving children, why doesn't God intervene and prevent despotic governments from starving out their own people? Why are people macheted in their beds and gang-raped? Well, they're choosing to do that. The children who are starving are not choosing to starve and the people who are macheted in their beds and gang-raped are not choosing to do that, see how that works? Her answer (I swear I'm not making this up)? Those children aren't in pain and they don't know they're suffering because it's all they've ever known. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT.

    [​IMG]

    There's a reason Kevin Carter committed suicide.
     
  12. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Some dishrag you met at the gym said something stupid? Next you’re gonna tell me some asshole who adores jethro Tull posts imbecilic shit on the internet about the jets.

    Not a great source of material for making sweeping conclusions about people
     
  13. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I swept all the corners. ; )

    There's a tiny Church near where I live that was fallow for well over 40 years. I mean tiny. Tiny and old. Luckily no-one was never enough of a jerk to break any of the windows (I have some great pics of the place from the outside). I went snooping a bunch of times because where there's an old tiny Church, there's grave stones. Came up empty on the latter.

    To make a long story short, Baptist Minister renovated the place about 12 years back. Abandoned buildings and boneyards are what I do, and one day the door was open. People were painting and spackling the inside. Hmmm. I was on my way to work. Next time. A few months later, I saw the door open again, but it was a day off, so I went in while some parishioners were vacuuming, dusting, really giving it an overhaul after most of the major work had been done.

    The Minister was there and I explained what I was doing there, introduced myself, that I just wanted to take some photos. "Come back on Sunday." "To take photos?" Haha, anyway, one of the sweetest people that I've ever met on the fly. It's an all black congregation, and me being as white as mozzarella with a camera in my hand, ya know. He hugged me in this innocent way that I can't explain. It was so kind and warming. He's gotta be pushing 90 now, and I secretly weed his flowers outside the entrance on the sly all the time. I know that he knows that it's me. I'm not a prick every day of my life.

    The point that I've been trying to make is believe whatever you want. But (and I know people will argue that Christianity isn't a cult) examine what you believe. I mean, really examine it. Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, Mormons, they're all NUTS. I actually sat in on a Quaker Meeting, it was low-key, kind of interesting, no talking. Felt like faking an uncontrollable tic and screaming GO JETS!

    EDIT & P.S.: Jehovah's Witnesses, big time cult. The operative word is cult.
     
    #93 jetophile, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  14. Sam Hammer

    Sam Hammer Well-Known Member

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    Neither do I. Evolution will take care of idiots like that the natural way. When people do it to their children, however it should be considered child abuse.
     
  15. Sam Hammer

    Sam Hammer Well-Known Member

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    So if somebody's faith believes it is good to rape all of their children before the age of 8, you'd be okay with that? What position are you in to contradict that?
     
    #95 Sam Hammer, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  16. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    TommyJ, this one is for you. Since the Jehovwhatevers Witnesses to Fakeness in the Sky moved to a theatre near me, their door to door assault has gone full nuclear. My neighbor across the street, she's from the Bx and very street smart. I don't associate with anyone except the kid next door (who is now 40, HOLY CRAP), and her. The neighbor thing is kind of OK in theory but not in practice. Once you get involved, you get sucked into a vortex that you can't escape, so I generally avoid. I never got sucked into the vortex mostly because I used to commute to NYC and was just never interested beyond being generally friendly and saying nothing other than hello to people and going on my way. Block parties? That's a negative. And I'm sure I was called an anti-social bitch - if they knew my name, that is.

    So anyway, my sweetheart neighbor across the street, she's very, VERY funny. She's Puerto Rican, and I wish I could imitate her lingo here. She really is a doll, and we trade recipes and food. I don't eat to live, I live to eat, and our dogs love each other to pieces and are glued at the hip. Her electric garage door opener wasn't working, and she knows the old man is handy, so she texted me for some help. You must understand this woman gives us tostones and Turran Duro on the regular, so how could we say no?

    I text her to say is it OK if the old man comes at xzy time. No words are a typo: "That be great, but some Jehovah here and I'm stuck worse than that garage. I worked Corrections but I can't give this a beat down because of Jesus." I don't think that I ever laughed so hard in my life.
     
    #96 jetophile, Mar 18, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018

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