Trading up

Discussion in 'Draft' started by Big Cat, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Big Cat

    Big Cat Well-Known Member

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    I’ve always been firmly against trading the farm to go get a QB because it restricts your ability to build around him. However, this season has raised the question about whether or not trading up is really that detrimental to your roster.

    The Rams just pummeled the Giants on their way to 6-2 and the Eagles embarrassed the NFL’s best secondary to get to 8-1 just a year after trading up to 1 and 2 to get their guys. Despite the injury, it looks like the Texans won’t have any quarrels with trading up for Watson and the Chiefs have a ready set roster to turn over to Mahomes whenever they want (although they’re a unique case).

    If we wind up picking in the teens, is it really that huge of a deal to package a couple 2’s and next year’s 1 to go get somebody?
     
  2. Brook!

    Brook! Soft Admin...2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner

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    I am new to this NFL draft concept as I am following NFL and Jets with much focus only for like 10-11 years. But I think you might be right about this. If you have an excellent GM and scouts then go ahead and keep your picks no matter what. But we have been drafting like crap for the last 10 years. Go ahead and bet all the picks for that one QB prospect. But do you trust Jets to make the right pick? I don’t know that either so I will root for the Jets and embrace the pain that comes with it.
     
  3. Dsmiles13

    Dsmiles13 Member

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    Let's estimate the potential cost. At the moment it doesn't seem to be an emphatic #1 QB ala Peyton Manning or Matt Stafford. So let's say we need to go from #12 to 5 to secure a Rosen/Jackson/Allen whomever. In that scenario we'd have to give up something like #12, our top 2nd rounder, our 17 4th, and next years #1 as well. If the guy can be your franchise savior, then at the end of the day its an amazing deal. If he's RG3, then this type of deal seats us back approximately 3 years due to the depth and talent level we'd lose out on. With the fact that we need to secure a LT, C, possibly an OG, RB, #1 WR, DE (assuming Mo goes), OLB, #1 CB and nickel CB, it would also be very difficult to swallow losing that draft capital to fill these holes. So management better be right, or else we're back in the gutter for the next 3 years minimum.
     
  4. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    opportunity, chance and how the roster looks should determine if the Jets look to trade up or not. I look at the Jets weapons and I think they are OK there. The Jets line needs improvement at LT and C, how do you upgrade the position if you trade up? If the Jets can trade up and grab Rosen. Getting rid of next year's one is a tough one for me always, but it will cost it to move up 10+ picks.
     
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  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is a big deal. While the Jets' personnel is better than most thought, it is not nearly the roster that the Eagles had already or the Texans. I don't know that much about the Rams, so I can't really speak to them, but I do know they have Gurley and had some darned good defensive players.

    IMO one give up the ranch to trade up for a QB if one already has a very good team and is basically just missing the QB. It's another story entirely when one still has a bunch of holes on one's team, especially on offense, and one has to give up the ranch to trade up. Then one can't continue building the team around that QB. With the Eagles and Texans at least, they had excellent teams, just needed the QB, so all they had to do was plug the QB in and design the offense around what he does well.
     
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  6. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Trade up if you are sure about the prospect trade up. If you’re wrong it will be another gms problem anyway
     
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  7. Attackett

    Attackett Well-Known Member

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    Send whatever it takes, get your QB and worry about everything else later.

    Hopefully Bucs get ahead of the Giants.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    If I were the bills GM I would consider trading up, they are missing one piece, QB.

    The jets should not trade up under any circumstances as they have too many holes to fill at this point. There is also the chance that they end up grabbing a QB in the 3rd round that can become the FQB they are looking for with all the new players they draft.
     
  9. soh_vet

    soh_vet Well-Known Member

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    i'm a casual college football fan, so who in the draft at this point is the peyton/luck?
    i hear the usually names, darnold, rosen, allen, also heard they dont look like #1 picks. So who is?
    all i know is outside of Manning(s), no top 5 pick has won the super bowl since 1999.
     
  10. Dsmiles13

    Dsmiles13 Member

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    There really isn't a consensus #1. Darnold was going into this year but 2017 hasn't been very kind to him so he's no longer surefire. Rosen probably has the best chance of the bunch but other blue chip talents like Saquon Barkley have a shot to take the #1 throne depending on the draft order. My QB rankings would be as of now in regards to our system under Morton:

    1. Darnold
    2. Jackson
    3. Rosen
    4. Mayfield
    5. Allen
    6. Thorsen
    7. Rudolph

    Darnold looks tailor-made for a WC system and could be a top 5 QB in year 2 of his NFL career. His release is a little long and he needs to work on his vision under pressure, but those are things that can be corrected with a good offseason or 2 and some game time. His accuracy when he's on is spectacular and his footwork is already top-notch from running USC's Pro-style system. Jackson to me probably has the most upside thanks to his athleticism but he's going to need work on his progressions and his footwork to be successful in a WC system
     
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  11. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Let's continue to debate, discuss and ponder 100 variables before moving up to take a QB..

    Let's fret about other "holes in the team " that can easily be resolved in rounds 2 and 3

    Let's continue to let an important opportunity go by the boards for the upteenth time in SOJ's history

    Does anyone here really believe the Rams and the Eagles did not have a doubt or two grabbing these soon to be star QBs??????

    Did Andy Reid have second thoughts about Mahomes ????

    Nothing stops these guys from pulling the trigger and changing their course of history

    Live and learn
     
  12. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Trading up now is a bad idea for two reasons. First, trade-ups that work like Wentz, Watson, and Goff are the exception. For every one of those, there's a Manziel, RG3, Gabbert, Sanchez, etc. The reason it's working now as opposed to before is luck. Second, in every market you want to buy low and sell high. Without fail. Because the last couple trade-ups worked out, it will take giving up more picks to trade up this year than last year. Which is a mistake because reason 1. You're falling into the trap of buying high. Don't fall into it.
     
  13. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    So you learned absolutely nothing during Tannenbaum days, eh?
     
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  14. Walt White

    Walt White Well-Known Member

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    If they ever did that they better be damn sure the guy they like is at least as good a prospect as Goff/Wentz. Not sure if that will even be the case.
     
  15. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    They can't know, anyone who pretends they know is fooling themselves.
     
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  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree that trading up is a bad idea, but not for your reasons. I don't think luck has much to do with it. Manziel was a disaster waiting to happen. The warning signs and track record were all there, then there's his size. IMO in order to succeed in the NFL, RGIII had to forget about running the ball and stay in the pocket. With his thin frame, he was an injury waiting to happen.. Gabbert and Sanchez were never that good a prospects. Sanchez needed to sit for a year at a minimum if he was to have any chance of succeeding. In addition, the Jets didn't have an OC worth a damn and they didn't help Sanchez by failing to keep talent around him and by Rex predicting a SB victory Sanchez' rookie season.

    Wentz, Watson and Goff are working because the owners were smart enough to hire offensive minded HCs, and they built the teams before trading up for their QB.
     
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  17. blackssmagic

    blackssmagic Well-Known Member

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    The one that I had high hopes for was Allen. He is built like Wentz, Cam etc...he is athletic as can be. He has shown minimal if any progression this year. I love Jackson but he is built like a stick, maybe Mayfield is the guy
     
  18. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Wentz faced weak competition in college, the NFL was too much for him.
    Watson's wins at Clemson were because of his teammates, without them he's nothing.
    Goff was a product of the Cal spread, he couldn't adjust to the NFL game.

    See how easy it is to craft narratives for busts? All you have to do is look up the old scouting reports and cite the negatives while ignoring the positives. Had Wentz, Watson, and Goff been the busts instead, you would have written something like I did.
     
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  19. LV Coach

    LV Coach Well-Known Member

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    Trading up for next year's draft is a very bad idea. We have a lot of holes to fill. There may be a good QB available in later rounds. It all depends on our scouting staff to unearth one. Quien sabe?
     
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    If you're certain that the guy you want will work in your system, or you're committed to building the system around him, then I wouldn't rule out trading up, but I wouldn't mortgage the farm for him unless he was a consensus FQB prospect, like P. Manning. I would consider giving up a "little" for someone like Mahomes or Watson last year, and possibly Rosen this year, but there are a couple of decent possibilities that might fall to where the Jets will be drafting so trading up might not be necessary. There's still a lot of football to be played yet, both for the Jets, to determine their draft slot, and the college prospects to improve/decrease their value.

    Bottom line, I wouldn't rule out trading up a for a true "franchise" player, especially a QB or RB.
     

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