Saquon Barkley 2017 Games Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Draft' started by Jonathan_Vilma, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I'm generally on the train that doesn't draft runningbacks higher than the second or third round. Many of the leagues top backs were drafted in the second through fifth rounds with some coming even later than that.

    For example, I liked Zeke coming out a lot, but I wouldn't have taken him or Fournette.

    However, this guy is a once in a lifetime type of player at that position. If we miss out on the top quarterbacks (let's say Rosen, Darnold, Jackson), I think it's a no brainer to take Barkley.

    We can rebuild the offensive line with the second round picks & free agency. We need to make the offensive line a priority though, at the very least center and left tackle as the guards are solidified and Shell (at the moment) appears as though he can hold down the position.

    We've tried the lower round offensive lineman thing for the better part of the past ten years. Time to go get us a stud early.

    Frank Ragnow is my first choice at center. The dude moves people.
     
  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I do think that if they had been able to get Fournette, the same thing you predict for Barkley would hold true, but unfortunately they didn't get that chance. We'll get to see if that's true this week.
     
  3. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Fournette is an excellent pure runner. But he's also taller (which could lead to injuries) which makes him less compact. He's not much of a pass catcher either, and didn't display the patience Barkley has.

    That takes nothing away from him though. He's basically the best pure runner the league has seen since AP.

    The patience can work against Barkley sometimes as he won't have the time he has in college to make a decision.

    Barkley to me is the complete package. Every single aspect of his game is exactly what you want if you were building the perfect runningback.

    His game against Iowa was one of the best I've ever really seen from a college runner.
     
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  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree, and if they Jets can't Rosen (or whoever the can't miss QB is, who is Rosen for now IMO), then I like taking Barkley and then look for a QB later - that might be with the 2nd pick if someone really good is still there, or maybe in the 3rd/4th round or even in 2019 if they decide to grab a stud LT/C/Pass Rusher with the 2nd pick. I could live with Barkley and an improved OL for a year until they find their FQB. Or they might even sign Cousins or someone else to fill that role. I would LOVE to see them give Petty a shot, and if he pans out like I think he can, adding Barkley to him would make a pretty good offense as a next step.
     
  5. Cody Hummel

    Cody Hummel Active Member

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    I'm all for getting enough wins to knock us back to the 3rd-5th spot to snag Barkley. I live near Penn State and go to every home game. You should see the kid up close he looks like a damn linebacker. I know it's a bold statement but I truly feel he will go down as one of the best nfl backs of all time. (Providing he stays healthy) Id much rather roll into next season with Petty as the starting quarterback Barkley in the backfield. And spend every dime we can next year fixing the holes we have.

    If we do end up with the #1 pick id love for us to trade down to #3 or #4 we could get a ton in return and still get Barkley.

    I'd rather spend the money all over than invest big in Cousins.

    P.s for what it's worth Barkley grew up in the bronx he is a huge jets fan. His dad actually has jets tatoo.
     
  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    If they have the #1 or #2 pick, I'd still prefer Rosen at this point, but as I said before, Barkley and a "lesser" QB might not be bad outcome, assuming they can add to the OL and fix other holes. What scares me with your suggestion to trade down is that any team between where they originally were, and where they traded down to might take Barkley instead. That would be a real Jets outcome!
     
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  7. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    For every Ezekiel Elliott, there's a Jordan Howard.
    For every Leonard Fournette, there's a Kareem Hunt.

    So essentially, I am saying there is not a chance in hell we are trading down from the #1 pick. Rosen would be ours right then and there.
     
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  8. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I still want the franchise quarterback. But if we end up too far down in the draft to grab one of those guys, Barkley would be a good consolation prize.

    Again, I'm always in the group that is against taking a runningback high, but he's an exception to that rule IMO.

    Jordan Howard, Le'veon Bell, Devonta Freemen, David Johnson, DeMarco Murray, Lamar Miller, Frank Gore, Lesean McCoy, LeGarrette Blount, Matt Forte, Jeremy Hill, Jay Ajayi, Carlos Hyde, etc. are all second round or later picks.

    The only first round selections in the top 30 in rushing last year were Zeke, Melvin Gordon, Todd Gurley, Jonathan Stewart, Mark Ingram, Ryan Matthews (27th), and Doug Martin (29th).

    Matthews is out of the league now I believe or a backup somewhere. Jonathan Stewart is almost out of the league, and Ingram is in a timeshare in New Orleans. Only Martin, Zeke, Gurley, and Gordon are the full time highly drafted feature backs in the league right now.

    Add Fournette to that list. I don't see McCaffrey ever being a full tilt feature back as he'll remain the freshest being used as 1a/1b type of running that he's in with Stewart.
     
    #28 Jonathan_Vilma, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  9. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Yeah if we are out of range for the QB, then definitely look at the OT and the RB. Under certain circumstances, I don't mind taking a RB high as long as we have the line and the QB. Like Zeke for example. I been watching Rashaad Penny from San Diego State could be a steal.
     
  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of going some combination of OT/QB/RB with our first and two seconds. Obviously Rosen, Darnold or Jackson are ideal. But let's say they're all gone. I wouldn't be upset with Barkley/Tackle/Mayfield. And then by some stroke of god have Frank Ragnow, the center from Arkansas fall to our third round pick.

    This is an extremely deep draft for offensive lineman as well as receiver. Could be looking at 5-6 of each position going in the first round. I'm not sure what the drop off is after the first round talent for offensive line is, but it doesn't seem too steep.

    I'd also loooove to sign Nate Solder. Something tells me the Patsies won't let him go. They have to be pretty close to the salary cap limit though.

    Solder-Carpenter-Ragnow-Winters-Shell actually could then turn this line into a strength.

    OR.

    Rookie-Carpenter-Ragnow-Winters-Shell.

    Wesley Johnson is not the answer at center. Billy Price and the kid from Florida are both good potential options at center as well.
     
  11. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Walter Football ranks the following tackles with first round grades.

    Carpenter likely only has another season or two of maintaining his play at the current level. However, I think we can stand pat at guard, especially since Dozier has even looked solid as if he can be a quality backup for us.

    Tackles
    Rankings
    1 LT Trey Adams, Washington (1st)
    2 T Connor Williams, Texas (1st)
    3 T Mike McGlinchey, Notre Dame (1st)
    4 T Martinas Rankin, Mississippi State (1st-2nd
    5 T/G Martez Ivey, Florida (2nd-3rd)
    6 T Jamarco Jones, Ohio State (2nd-3rd)
    7 T Mitch Hyatt, Clemson (2nd-4th)
    8 T Orlando Brown, Oklahoma (2nd-4th)
    9 T Brock Ruble, Florida State (2nd-4th)
    10 Tyrell Cosby, Oregon (3rd-4th)

    Interior lineman - center
    1 G/C Billy Price, Ohio State (1st-3rd)
    2 G/C Frank Ragnow, Arkansas (2nd-3rd)
    3 G/C Will Clapp, LSU (2nd-3rd)
    4 G/C Scott Quessenberry, UCLA (2nd-3rd)
    5 C Alec Eberle, Florida State (2nd-4th)
    6 C Bradley Bozeman, Alabama (2nd-4th)
    7 G/C Ross Pierschbacher, Alabama (2nd-4th)

    Interior Lineman - guard
    1 G Quenton Nelson, Notre Dame (1st)
    2 G Will Hernandez, UTEP (1st-3rd)
    3 G/C Billy Price, Ohio State (1st-3rd)
    4 G Braden Smith, Auburn (2nd-3rd)

    The rest were listed in the center rankings. Obviously some of this will change and some won't come out. But that's a hell of a lot of depth.

    I spy a couple interior Alabama offensive lineman. I'm not sure how I feel about them. Their offensive line are absolutely dominating in college, but often seem to lack the speed necessary to play at the pro level, at least at the tackle position.
     
    #31 Jonathan_Vilma, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  12. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Patriots did draft Antonio Garcia last year, surely he's being groomed for that spot by one of the best o-line coaches in NFL history, Dante Scarnecchia. The Jets, definitely need a LT and a C. Won't be able to really address that in FA, so if you need new starters, it must be done via the draft. I look at the line as the biggest need, it has to be upgraded in order to get a young QB to play well. Run game has been subpar 3 games in.

    Tough task in order for Mac.
     
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  13. WW85

    WW85 MOCKERATOR
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    I would have no issue drafting Barkley, as long as "our" franchise QB is not available in Rd 1.

    Heard an interview of Barkley on Sirius/XM a while back, he is extremely well spoken, loves football, humble and intelligent.

    I love everything about this Kid and being a local is even better.
     
  14. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Solder is the only available tackle I'd trust at left tackle for bigger money. He's been a rock for the Patriots.

    There aren't really any centers available this upcoming offseason that I'd want to target. I've voiced my want for Ragnow, but I'd definitely be OK with another Ohio State center in Billy Price. He shifted to center when Elflein left after being an All-American guard.

    Offensive line is the only position group I'm not wary of drafting from Ohio State. We haven't had great success elsewhere from OSU (Gholston, Lee). :mad::mad:

    He wears 54. Mangold wore 55. Completely unrelated omen? Heck yes.

    Dude just looks like a nasty blocker.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Have to admit, I've only seen a handful of games with this guy. How does he stack up against Zeke and Gurley?
     
  16. Brook!

    Brook! Soft Admin...2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner

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    Interesting. He has my attention now. I will root for him wherever he goes. I hope we snag a top QB but if we can't I am down with this pick.
     
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  17. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen he's similar to Zeke in that he doesn't do anything poorly. He has a bit more power than Zeke does, and absolutely incredible balance.

    He's a bit shorter than Zeke and more compact which is where the power comes
    from.

    I think he's more elusive than Gurley in the open field.

    The only knock against him that I've seen is that he sometimes suffers from Barry Sanders syndrome in that he will dance around a bit and immediately look to bounce the ball outside. That's not to say he can't run in between the tackles, but he won't always have the time he has in college to bounce the ball outside. He may need to learn to take what the defense gives him at times.

    Le'veon Bell has made that sort of 'patience' a staple in his game though. He's excellent at setting up blocks. This can only be done if you have an offensive line that won't leak defenders into the backfield.

    I think Le'veon is his best pro comparison, although he's a better back in college than Le'veon was. Again, that's not a knock on Le'veon as he had a great junior year and solid freshman and sophomore years in more of a time share. Barkley has been consistently great all three years.

    I also do not think anyone foresaw Bell having as much success in the pros as he has had. Barkley will be drafted high and have a lot of hype to live up to. I think he'll do so though, assuming he *knock on wood* avoids injury.

    He actually doesn't even have huge useage numbers one might think he would have as a three year starter. 520 carries so far. Will likely finish at about 700 or so touches by the time the seasons done, which seems about standard for runningbacks coming out. Maybe a little bit higher than a pro team would like but he has the body type to absorb it.

    Catches & carries
    - Zeke had 650 touches
    - Bell had 749.
    - Gurley had 575, but also the ACL tear.
    - Melvin Gordon had 653.
    - Doug Martin had 684.
    - Dalvin Cook had 766.
    - DeMarco Murray had 809
    - LeSean McCoy had 649 in only two seasons.
    - Jay Ajayi had 751

    He's on a good pace if he comes out this season. I'd be a bit worried about his useage if he stays for his senior season as he'll likely enter the 900+ touch range which essentially takes away an NFL season from him.

    Ricky Williams had 1,096 touches in his career at Texas. He's an unusual case as he broke down more mentally than physically. But still we know what happened there. And he as physically gifted and conditioned as there's ever been.
     
    #37 Jonathan_Vilma, Sep 30, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
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  18. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    He's only a junior, but Bryce Love's game rushing totals are as follows.

    180, 160, 184, 263, 301.

    He's over 1,000 for the season through 5 games. He'd need to average right around 230 yards per game for the remaining 7 games on the schedule to have a chance at Barry Sanders record. Worth a slight discussion though.

    How does this kid stack up for the pros? He ran through some pretty big holes today. But he's listed at 196, looks bigger and stronger than that.
     
  19. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    This guy's athleticism is off the roof, Bo Jackson was one of the more athletic RBs of all time. I looked up his squatting #s and powerlifting #s and this guy is a freak of nature. Also, has tremendous talent as you already indicated. Looks like he can catch and block too so he's a 3 down back. Come draft time, I will be interested to see his 40 time. He might be one of the more physically gifted RBs in the last decade or so.
     
  20. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone see the TD pass he threw yesterday? Looked better than Hack...
    Looks like we will miss on the top 2 QBs and if Barkley is available for us Mac better pick him.
    Of course that will give the Mac haters more ammo. ( He fell to us, it wasn't a good pick) see Williams and Adams.
     

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