Quite surprisingly...

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Zach, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Even with street FA pickups and scrap-heap materials, this offense looks rather functional.

    On the other hand, ST is still a grade 1 disaster that it was yesteryear and defense is getting worse and worse.

    =======================================

    Maybe we are onto something with Johnny Morton hire. If we somehow fix up the OL, Petty or Hack might have future for us too.

    Now, Bowles can't get his head out of his ass even with all the quality draft picks. I am starting to think that, Jets D has sufficient talent; just their HC is making them look like total ass.

    And yes. We need a fucking ST coach.
     
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  2. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The offense is running smooth. There's just not enough talent to make bigger plays. The running game came alive today and the offensive game plan called for chips on Khalil Mack and running at him to neutralize him.

    It also is not that predictable for what seems like the first time in a decade. A lot of varied formations and personnel groupings, but not enough to be confusing and leading to penalties. Morton seems to run an organized ship.

    Again, the special teams being so dreadful is probably due to the horses.

    Most teams use rounds five through seven to draft cornerbacks, linebackers and safeties to fill in those units.

    We drafted: quarterback, guard, nose tackle and tackle, punter, receiver in 2015 and 2016. None of those positions contribute on special teams.

    2017 saw us draft defensive end, runningback, cornerback (non-football injury list), and cornerback (inactive both games). No one from the 2012-2014 drafts are really left on the roster that could be special teamers.

    2017 might've been a cool year to draft some special teamers. Instead we were too busy trading up and down and getting unfair value to worry about that stuff.

    Sooo we haven't drafted anyone in the key special teams rounds to help the god awful units.
     
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  3. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if Jets offense lacks talent as they look like they do.

    The most glaring problem with current Jets offense is the offensive line. And even this line isn't all that bad. Carpenter and Winters look like a solid guards tandem. Wesley Johnson is shaky, and both OTs need major upgrade, but both guard spot seem fine so far.

    I don't know about you, but I think Elijah McGuire and Bilal Powell can tally 35 snaps a game, if the blocking up front holds. Austin Sefarian Jenkins and Jermaine Kearse look like a good one-two punch for a receiving corp. Just the protection has to hold up - which has been a problem.

    ===============================================

    One of the reasons Jets ST are devoid of talent is because, Jets gamble in dumb way with low round picks. They drafted a CB with ACL injury. [Duh.] Whose pick is this? I would really like to know. If Mac is behind this, I'm going over to 'Fire Mac' camp.
     
  4. I believe the OL criticism is vastly overrated. That's not to say they can't be upgraded or that they shouldn't be upgraded moving forward.I just think folks are failing to realize that outside of acouple teams there aren't a lot of great OLs in today's game. All things considered the Jets likely have an average OL league wide.

    Additionally people are failing to acknowledge that we've switched to a zone blocking scheme that doesn't plow open holes for runners like everyone is screaming for. This is a scheme that is about footwork,quickness off the snap & winning the point of attack.

    For all the criticism this unit has gotten they've managed to allow arguably the porous skill group in the league to put up double digit points on the road 2 straight weeks.now imagine if we had actual skill talent & a legit QB.. I'm not sure why folks are so reluctant to be on board w. This concept.This team actually upgrading offensive skill..it's like the fan base is just as misguided as the team but rather than it being defense it's with offensive line..

    After Walton,coslett & Kotite went heavy on skill & let the OL suffer it's like this fan based became obsessive about building this impenetrable front line which is just as unattainable & silly as the super defense.

    Offense is about balance.Of course OL is included in that but it's like people on here go crazy the second Anyone prioritizes a game breaker over the OL.We haven't had a game breaker since Leon Washington..doesn't anyone wanna see some points scored?arent people tired of trying to win w defense & trench play?I guess not..im alone in this distinction.
     
  5. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Well-Known Member

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    The OL has been decent actually. Beachum was good yesterday, Shell was handling Mack well, he continues to play really well.
     
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  6. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. The OL is playing better than expected, but it still needs to be better. Mac has had opportunities to upgrade it and failed. He continues to seek bandaids rather than actually fixing problems on the OL.

    There are only 2-3 posters who are really fanatical about the OL play. Most of the rest of us want the OL upgraded to protect the QB, but we want playmakers.
     
  7. Peebag

    Peebag Well-Known Member

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    yes but if you can control the LOS, most times you win the ballgame. if you have an average to below average OL, the only way you win is with extraordinary QB play and we ain't had that since the late 60s.
     
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  8. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    Idk why guys keep thinking Shell isn't/hasn't played well.
     
  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I wasn't saying the OL wasn't important or didn't need upgrading.
     
  10. This is where I disagree.Watch a given game between 2 teams w legit passing attacks..focus on on the trench battle..you'll find more often than not it's not longer who "tows the line" but rather which QB is able to execute a quick passing game & get the ball to his playmakers at optimal timeframes.

    The quick passing game & offensive friendly rule changes have affected line plays overall impact on both sides of the ball.OLs are no longer prioritizing the running game & are no longer being asked to block for more than 3 seconds in pass pro..

    Additionally there are far more athletes on the DL than there are dancing bears to contain them.What does that mean?The quick passing game & pass heavy philosophies are here to stay.That drastically changes the role & impact the OL Has on the grand scheme of things.

    Its not about dominating the line of scrimmage anymore..it's about allowing the QB & skill players to make plays down field.While subtle this is very meaningful & game changing
     
    #10 KurtTheJetsFan, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2017
  11. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Controlling the LoS is so '60. We don't play '60 football any more.

    Who likes a cloud of dust and 3 yard football?

    ==================================================

    The point is, even when the talent level of the offensive squad is subpar, somehow it looks more than functional. That includes the OL, the QB, the RB and the receivers.

    On the other hand...
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Oh spot on Kurt! Almost no team has an impregnable OL. The best teams DO have multiple game breakers, starting with the QB. And yes, drafting these guys are huge gambles, but that's because of the huge impact they have. The Jets philosophy - especially since gambling on Sanchez and failing (more about that later) - seems to be "If I don't gamble big, I can't lose big, so I'll go with BPA and no one can blame me". A truly good GM would've drafted Mahomes first, and then Maye - or even better, Kareem Hunt. Oh yeah, there WAS a team that did that - the Chiefs! Or maybe Mahomes and Charles Harris; or McCaffrey and Harris; or, well you get the idea.

    But Maccagnan is NOT a good GM and I have no hope while he remains that this team will improve.
     
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  13. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    All I've been saying thus far has been, [we know for sure how bad Todd Bowles is, but we don't know how bad Mac is.]

    I don't even know how the drafting board was set up; did Mac run the draft? Or did he have someone twisting his wrists? I wouldn't know. If at all, he cleaned the scouting department [which produced the 2014 draft, people.] so I'd like to see how better he can do with the new scouting department.
     
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  14. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    one thing I also noticed, why doesn't Ardarius Stewart and Elijah Mcgurie return punts? I swear I've seen a muff punt at least 4 to 5 times a season with the Jets.

    Both did it in college, why not now?
     
  15. I don't think in theory that "BPA" is a poor method for success.If your scouts & evaluators know what they are doing it's the easiest way to take emotion out of equation when a team is on the clock.Quite often a team's worse sins on draft day are due to panicking due to need & over drafting as a result;See Hack. Additionally if you miss there is an obvious reason to point to from a accountability/QA perspective;Over evaluation.

    It just can't be big board BPA.In other words you can't just rank every single player 1 to 3-400 something & blindly take the best guy.You certainly will have that big board for navigation purposes but you have to dwindle that big board to the Jets board based on prototypes & the highest possible standards.Its from the Jets board you want to select the best player available.

    Mac seems to try to build a "jets board" but still ends up w a random collection of talent that is not definitive nor complimentary.This is where Bowles enters the equation given that the player development & scheme fits have been an "F" across the board.Perhaps Mac envisioned the players being molded into a cohesive unit which clearly has not happened
     
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  16. JetDan

    JetDan Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree, the offense is far superior to the defense at this point. I thought we were going to have the worst offense in NFL history-but they actually look like an offense you have to game plan against.
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a place for BPA, but not blind worship of it as Macc seems to do. When rebuilding a team, you need to know what your philosophy is and the types of players who fit it - THAT should be your primary factor, and then BPA within that. If you go away from that formula because a "consensus BPA" falls in your lap - Williams, Adams - you screw up your rebuild by missing out on a potentially much better player for YOUR team. Of course you also mitigate the criticism you might get because you can say "Hey, everybody thought this guy was BPA!:. So how much difference has WIlliams and Adams made so far?
     
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  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    This is where I think Mac has failed (along with his sense of priorities or just giving Bowles what he wants). He has a philosophy,vision and/or plan, but has let BPA distort and disrupt that plan. He is too obsessed with BPA on the big board, and not focused on the balance of need and player whose skills best fit what the Jets do.
     
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  19. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Mac only knows BPA when it's an obvious choice [Williams, Adams].

    Could've paid me a fraction of the price to make those moves.
     
  20. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    I don't think [fail] fits the description of Mac. Not just yet.

    Don't just take my words for it. For all the defensive picks and all, he somehow grabbed subpar, but functional offense that scores at least 1 TD a game. Do I think this is more of Johnny Morton than Mac? Yes. Do I think Mac assembled this offense? You bet.

    So whose influence is bigger on field? GM or a coach? I'll always lean on the coach's side on that one.

    If Bowles made this defense semi-respectable, they wouldn't have been blown out by 45 points. To me, Bowles is the #1 disaster. After that - I don't know, but I'd say Kacy Rodgers is a close second.
     
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