Does this really change the culture

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Glenn G, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. Glenn G

    Glenn G Member

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    Ok, this is my first thread. I've been reading about two weeks and this term "culture" seems to get tossed around a lot.
    It seems a youth movement if you want to even call it that infuses a new culture into the team according to some posters. What new culture is it that you see?
    Do we still suck at QB? Do we still have a questionable OL? Are we suspect in the secondary? Do we have an edge rusher?
    What I just listed are things that imo define the culture of the Jets so are any of those fixed?
    Now if you want to say culture is a mind set where players will go out and play hard from start to finish. That might happen but let's be real about this. This team is going to get pounded into the ground by some of the stronger offensive teams like the Pats. We simply won't be able to score against other teams. Losing like this will take a mental toll on the team and mind you, this team has never shown a solidarity in the lockerroom so I don't think this team is mentally tough.
    The truth is the culture won't change until the team develops leaders and starts winning. We are just perpetuating what has always defined the Jets until we can show we can compete, the only thing we compete for this season is Darnold
     
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  2. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    I disagree.

    To lose together. Is to learn how to win together.

    Put a bunch of good kids together. Who play for one another. Who don't quit on eachother. Who all learn how to win together (once they come together)

    And a bunch of good things can follow.

    Mo Wilk.
    Leo.
    Adams.
    Maye.
    Enunwa.

    Etc.

    These kids can be developed into leaders amongst one another (as well as others).
     
  3. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger... Sometimes you have to start over and the Jets are long overdue in that regard. No more band aids. In spite of the bravado you're reading, everybody associated with this team except perhaps the most sunny of optimists know in their hearts this will be a long and painful process. With our new placeholder/mentor/WCO "expert" behind center for a few games, it simply buys time for Hack to get his shit together since Petty really has never been in the conversation. Culture starts with shared experiences and that's what gonna happen here. They'll lose together, they'll learn together, and hopefully one day in the not too distant future they'll start to win together.
     
    #3 Cman68, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  4. JetLifeLo

    JetLifeLo Well-Known Member

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    What we are doing is drafting and developing leaders... They're young and this is still a rebuilding process... so the point is to do exactly what you concluded your post with. As far as the positions on the field being questionable that's what this is for. See what we have, and over time draft replacements or sign a stud with all the money you save while doing this approach. This will be a process. It may take another two years before we're back in playoff conversation but for now it's all about evaluating and developing.

    If we go 3-13 but see promise from the young guys we expect to be here for years than that's awesome. If we find a gem or two we didn't expect to be good but is, that's awesome. If we lose some hard fought games but didn't just lay down and quit.. that's awesome. If that 3-13 results in a franchise QB in next years draft that's awesome. So I don't think there will be a mental toll.. these guys understand that this is a rebuild.. no old vets to go out there and say "I believe we're a super bowl team" knowing damn well we stink then go out and go 5-11 on the year.
     
  5. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    If our young and speedy linebackers show any kind of development, our corners belong in the league at all, and our rookie safeties live up to their potential at all, I expect the Jets to give strong offensive teams fits.*

    Strong defensive teams, I expect, will blow us out.
    Carpenter is the Jets only above average lineman, unless Beachum can stay healthy and recapture his form from days of yore. Enunwa is the only receiver on the team that isn't a complete question mark. Forte may or may not have anything left in the tank, and Powell can't carry the team on his own. Any decent defense is going to first confuse, then crush into oblivion any QB that lines up to take a snap.


    *This is not to say I expect the Jets to win.**

    **I don't expect the Jets to win.
     
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  6. CBG

    CBG Well-Known Member

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    not to rain on anyones parade but ------IF ----the team buys into what the coaches are teaching / instructing and IF the fans but more importantly the players see results the culture will change . Years ago with the Cowboys in Aikmans first year that team sucked ass, but you saw that they had Aikman, Emmitt , Irving, the future looked bright what do we have ? Yes we have some very good def lineman but we have more questions than answers right now,, anyone who continues to stroke our Linebackers and say this defense is going to be real good all I have to say is I will believe it when I see it,,,,ps Bowels is still the coach and I do not believe he can coach them up he has not shown me that so I will believe it when I see it .
     
  7. Bellows1

    Bellows1 Well-Known Member

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    I think the "culture change" is not hanging on to aging vets, just to have aging vets.

    The youth we added may not know the game as well as the vets, but they may make up in speed what we lose from age with the vets. The vets are not likely to get any faster, the kids are likely to get better.

    Also, we're not making any noise in the afc east, without a QB. Why not save the money, develope a youth movement in hopes the Patriots will suck in a couple years?
    If we have a couple of good drafts, developed these kids, we will be solid with or without "hitting" on a draft QB. Then we can bring in a hired gun if we have to.

    If one if our QB's work out, we can spend some money on any areas of need.
     
  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    IMO culture has nothing to do with positions or units on the team. Culture is it's core identity, it's work ethic, what the expectations are that are set down from the top down (good or bad). Positive chemistry is involved when there is a strong, vibrant culture, its part of the fiber of being a "team." It's a shared commitment to ideals and vision, and a shared mindset.

    One aspect of the team's Culture could be that the team never quits fighting, and plays hard for 60 minutes. Another could be that they're playing for their teammates and fans, and not just themselves. Forté has said several times that last season, players were just playing for themselves, for their stats, etc. Another aspect is whether a team expects to win, or merely "hopes" that they will win. That mindset makes a big difference.

    Of course a team's "culture" requires strong leadership and discipline from above. The tone is set by the owner, his expectations, the GM, CS and team staff he hires, and unfortunately, that's where it may all go to crap with the Jets (as it usually does), because we have a moron for an owner. It also requires players that are leaders.

    For instance, during Rex's term as HC the Jets' culture involved having fun, anything goes, lack of accountability and discipline, and talking big.

    Last season the culture was a joke. Bowles didn't instill any discipline, and veteran players who were seen as leaders dogged it, they only cared about themselves, they didn't come together as a team.

    Cman is right also that it's going to take some time to establish that new identity or culture. It's going to take persistence, insistence (on the part of the FO and FS), consistency and patience. It's going to take bringing in the right type of players, players who love the game, who have a strong work ethic and high character, who have a burning desire to win and be the best they can be, and who don't have off-field issues. It's going to mean avoiding types who play football just for the fame and money.

    I think we're finally on the right track with the types of players that Mac has brought into the team via the draft. FA has been about trying to fill the many holes, so it has been less about bringing in leaders and high character individuals, but I think that is even changing. I think the pursuit of Steve Smith was a part of that trying to change the culture.

    I think the Patriots' culture is that winning and excellence are expected, and team comes first and foremost. They have a belief, a confidence that they are going to win no matter what. Selfish players need not apply. Greedy players need not apply.
     
    #8 NCJetsfan, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  9. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    The culture has to change and I think what the Jets are doing is not only changing the culture but they are trying to find young players who can become leaders and be around for ten years or so like Brick, Mangold, and Harris. Though I don't like the way Harris was released I am not opposed to what the team is doing. With Harris or Decker the Jets weren't winning more than three games anyway. Let the young guys play and see who we should and shouldn't keep. Harris and Decker would've stunted that growth.

    As for the change of culture by letting the young guys play the Jets will realize who the leaders are allow them to get experience so in two or three years when the Jets are fighting for playoff spots these guys will have experience to be the leaders. The culture change and seeing the young guys play is what is making me excited about the upcoming season. Otherwise I wouldn't watch.
     
  10. MurrellMartin

    MurrellMartin Well-Known Member

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    No, the culture hasn't changed. I'll believe in this regime and in this organization again when they give me a reason to do so.
     
  11. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    All great points. Bowles is the x-factor in all this tanking. He is still incompetent and we will be spinning our wheels until he is gone. Expecting these young guys to be leaders of the team? That should be his job and just because you got rid of the strong headed people does not take the bullseye off of you. Bowles needs to step up his game or this grand plan goes nowhere.
     
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  12. GreenfiendNYJ

    GreenfiendNYJ Active Member

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    I think you have listed elements of team identity. Culture is more about guys being dedicated, showing up to meetings, staying out of trouble off the field, not obviously giving up on coaches, generally things that pertain to individual character. We didn't have much identity last year and the culture was suspect (that's a conservative statement since I wasn't in the locker room to make an accurate judgment). That said I do hope the culture improves and leads to a stronger identity and most importantly, wins and rings... Fingers crossed though, it's still the Jets.
     
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  13. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Bingo.. he is the key. if he continues as he has this team will not jell period.
     
  14. thankyourevis

    thankyourevis Active Member

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    Winning in football takes more than a franchise qb. It takes a combination of a winning owner, gm, coach, and qb. Right now we have none. Matthew stafford is a really nice qb.. whom i would be thrilled to have. Detriot hasnt won squat. You dont need all of these things but you need at least some of them. And right now we are so far away from winning its sad. We will go 2-14, fire bowles , fire mac, and get sam d. Hopefully we wont screw up our next hires.
     
  15. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Well then thank the Football God's that All-Time great GM's, Head Coaches & NFL QB's weren't written off after only their 1st two years of hire.

    And if last years Jets team could win 5 games with Fitzpatrick as (by far) the leagues worst QB, Decker missing 13 games, Harris & Mangold both aging, Revis playing washed up while literally getting beat and destroyed every game, Pryor embarrassing himself back there, Forte being a new HB with an old man offensive coordinator who didn't know how to utilize his abilities and get him into open space, no type of TE production due to our OC in Chan Gailey, both of our stud D-Lineman in Wilkerson & Richardson having down years along with young kids everywhere in Robby, Enunwa, Peake, Jalin, Leo, Lee, Jenkins, Burris & Simon etc then i find it very hard to believe that 2017's team is "set in stone" for an 0-16, 1-15, 2-14 etc type of season.

    If anything i think they can have more success by default when compared to 2016's train wreck.

    Despite all of the ugly last year fans seem to forget that 4 of our loses were by 5 points or less (a combined 13 points). Even that disaster team could still have won 8-9 games.

    I'm not calling for a postseason run or anything crazy but damn. Last years team played just about as ugly as you could possibly play with Fitzpatrick shitting the bed as our QB and we still pulled of 5 wins.

    But yea. I guess this is where we thank the Football God's that All-Time great GM's, Head Coaches & NFL QB's weren't written off and ran out of town as career losers after only their 1st two years of hire.
     
    #15 DefenseWinsChampionships, Jun 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    A great culture requires players who have great character. A winning culture requires that, plus players who have the skills/ability to win, AND a winner's mindset. At this point we can't say that Jets have any of these ingredients. And with Bowles as the HC, I seriously doubt if they can acquire any of them.

    But this problem pre-dates Bowles, and goes back decades really, with the brief exception of Parcells's reign. And this shows that this winning culture must come from the top down. An owner who is committed to winning, to doing everything he can to win, will hire people who are like-minded. Just look at the track record of Woody and Hess to see their lack of commitment to winning, They only want to win secondarily to the bottom line. They don't understand that "If you build a winner, they will come" to paraphrase Shoeless Joe in "A Field of Dreams". Whether you hate Steinbrenner or not, he understood this, which is why he gambled on paying FAs so much money...in the long run he knew it was peanuts compared to what he would take in.

    I just don't see Woody ever getting it.
     
  17. Jersey Joe 67

    Jersey Joe 67 Well-Known Member

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    Culture starts with the owner and works its way down through the GM, HC & so on....right there I may as well stop typing.
     
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  18. Pags2112

    Pags2112 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the culture IMO is just beginning to take shape. The removal of the previous leaders and so-called leaders was the first step. Emptying the lockeroom with negative personalities and filling it with positive Alpha Males was the second step. The third step will take shape during the season as the team develops its own personality. A new different Jets team. The snow globe has been shook up, lets see where the snow lands.
     
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  19. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    I think the organization is going in the right direction to build both good and winning cultures. Young kids will make mistakes. If they continue to make the same off field mistakes, you have to move on from them.
    Sadly we are learning some of the young players may not be the character guys we are looking for but they are young and can learn from their mistakes and grow. You really have to take a look at where the majority of these kids come from. One or no parent homes, inner cities that are war zones. It's a sad truth that too many refuse to see.
    We have some talented young kids, with strong leadership abilities. Last year's team had zero leaders. I keep reading about the released vets equalling a loss of leadership but not one of them were a leader last year. In fact they hindered the team. Williams even said he was reluctant to speak out in the locker room as he was so much younger than the vets. It's time for Williams, Adams , Mays, Powell and guys like Carpenter and Winters to step up.
    Being a long tenured player does not make you a leader.
    It's putting the team first, setting an example,on the field,in the locker room, at meetings and off the field. This has been lacking for too long.
    Steinbrenner had a significant advantage with MLB having a soft cap. You can spend an infinite amount of money. The NFL has a hard cap. No luxury tax. Can't spend a penny over.
    Woody has spent, has not been cheap in his pursuit to win. He just is not a football minded individual and doesn't know enough to stay out of personnel decisions. Hopefully he has learned, key word being hopefully.
     
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  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well I agree that Woody is not a football-minded individual (nor was Hess) and that's most of the problem in a nutshell. And while you think he hasn't been cheap, I think in important ways he has been. For starters, deciding to share a stadium with his competition, especially when it was called GIANTS Stadium. I think that set a tone for the entire culture right there. And then when it came to hiring F.O. people and Coaches, there's no cap involved there, but he didn't go all out to get the cream of the crop in those areas. For example, why not hire a great football guy as a Pres. or VP of Football Ops. to establish a successful structure and culture? Was that a financial decision, or just ignorance, or what?

    I guess what I'm saying is, compare Woody (or Hess before him) to any successful owners - Kraft, the Maras, the Rooneys - and tell me that he's as dedicated to winning as they are. I don't believe he is, and therefore, in the end, being frugal tops winning.
     

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