Sanchez Kicking Ass In Philly

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by JetsKickAss, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    notice how many SBs the Ravens made after they let Dilfer go. It took them 12 years to get back w/ a completely different team.
     
  2. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    And now many teams did dilfer play for that made a superbowl other than the Ravens?

    Dumb Argument Junc and you know it. Dilfer QB'd the team for 8 games plus the post season....and how did they win in the post season? By Having Dilfer just hand the ball off in that 2000 post season he completed more than 10 passes once, when the completed 12....he completed 43% in his post seasons....

    The Ravens won the post season by having Dilfer do as little as possible.
     
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  3. 74

    74 Well-Known Member

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    But he talks on TV about quarterbacks so he must have been good
     
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  4. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    To me that's a different thing, you can know a lot about something, you can understand a lot something, but still be very bad at doing that something. Most of the best coaches and trainers in sports were actually bad at the sport when they played, if they even played at all. You can be exceptional in the film room but stink when you get on the field because the game moves too fast, or your field vision isn't great, or you become indecisive...

    Lots of players understand the game and are football smart, very few become good on the field because that takes turning intellect and/or understanding and turning it in to instinct and reaction...often not the same thing.
     
  5. 74

    74 Well-Known Member

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    I was just joking around
     
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  6. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    he did take a 2nd franchise to the playoffs and it would have been a 3rd if he started one more game in Seattle.

    even great defenses need quality QB play, Dilfer gave Baltimore that. they won w/ D first but wouldn't have won the SB w/o Dilfer. you mentioned how they let him go after that b/c they thought they'd win w/ a "better" QB, he was a better #s QB but not a better QB for that team and they never got close to a SB again until Flacco came around.

    We never had a great D unlike what Dilfer had in Baltimore and while Mark may not have been the greatest #s guy he was a very good QB and perfect on those teams.
     
  7. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Woulda, coulda, shoulda. You see that's the problem with your "expertise", it relies on speculative presumption. You presume that if Dilfer had started "Just one more game" then Seattle would have made the playoffs, purely speculation, mind you he only played in 6 games that year and the next year he played in 6 games of the Seahawks and lost 4 of th 6 games he started for the same team...translation, assuming they would have won 1 more game with Dilfer is a leap of faith.

    But by using your playoff "logic" you do realize that in that Seattle season where if he had started "just 1 more game" he would have been doing so over a QB who led his teams to more playoffs and more playoffs wins than Dilfer...Hasselbrck. So by your definition of "quality" QB play Dilfer was replacing the "higher quality" Hasselbeck.....

    Flawed logic, it's why you should never trust only your eyes...the eyes lie, perception lies.
     
  8. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    He was 4-0 as a starter, Hasselbeck was 5-7. had he been primary starter they make it. w/ Trent they beat Den, KC, SD. w/ Matt they lost to Den and KC.

    One season is not the next so what they did the following season means nothing especially since in 2001 they played in the AFC West and in 2002 moved to a new conf and division.

    Hasselbeck was a good QB that was still developing and he developed in large part due to the help of Trent Dilfer.

    Trent Dilfer is incredibly underrated by the average fan b/c he didn't light up the fantasy #s. People actually think they could have plugged in any QB and won in 2000 which was why they went over a month w/o a TD w/o Trent and were struggling w/o him. Trent was vital to that run as Mark was vital to our 2 runs. That doesn't make them great QBs but to minimize what they actually did shows a lack of knowledge of this game and of that position.
     
  9. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Again, yes he was 4-0 as a back up spelling the starting QB. But you assume that what is a start is what will continue, it's speculative conjecture and nothing more....For someone who knocks people for worshiping "fantasy stats" you place a lot of emphasis on fantasy, which is what speculative conjecture is, fantasy. Case in point, Sanchez in 2009 won his first 3 games as a starter....by your assumption his next game would have likely been a win (remember you stated that if Dilfer had started 1 more game for the Seahawks they would have been in the playoffs (and even that's not certain, it would have tied them for the division but I don't know what the tie breakers were that year, it would not have qualified them as a wildcard.)) So by your logic Sanchez should win his next game in 2009, he lost his next 3 games and 6 of his next 7 games....having won 4 prior games does not reflect that the team will win the next game, or any other future games. But what you can do is look at that QB's overall performance. Is he a QB that makes the players around him better? or is he a guy you put on the field and hope he doesn't screw up too badly. Dilfer is in the latter category, so is Sanchez. Those in the seasons where they avoid the big screwups are called game managers, in seasons where they don't avoid the big screwups they're called scrubs....overall they're called backups.

    No team would choose dilfer to build their franchise around....no team would, at this point, choose Sanchez to build their franchise around....they're guys you have on your team and when they're on the field you do what you can to minimize the chances of them screwing up.

    They're good players, anyone in the NFL is a good player, relatively speaking. Only about 0.3% of all highschool football players ever even make a preseason NFL roster..even fewer actually ever make it on to a 53 man roster. But by NFL standards at the position they're bottom of the barrel players.

    But let's assume that your Dilfer is an adequate QB...he still did what Sanchez couldn't do...get to a superbowl. That said, that's not my standard of a QB, wins and losses to me are a team stat...the best QB can't win with a bad team (though he makes the bad team better) and a bad QB can win with a very good team (but he makes the team worse with a smaller margin of error allowed). A quality QB is someone who you can trust not to screw up....Sanchez and Dilfer, and they're ilk, are not that type of QB. They're both at their best when asked to do the least.

    In fact, looking at all of your arguments 99% of them are based on fantasy presumptive speculation....ironic for someone who accuses everyone of following "fantasy stats".
     
  10. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    you like to make up a lot of things. Dilfer was 4-0, Hasselbeck 5-7. in 8 less games he had 1 less win including beating 2 of the teams Matt lost to but nah he wouldn't have made a difference had he started more games.

    Some team will build around Mark,. one already tried and was successful and he will be the hottest FA QB on the market barring a shocking release of another QB.

    this game is about winning, it's hard to win in January and it's hard to find a QB that can win in January. Mark is one of them, average fans want fantasy wins, I want real wins. keep your #s and give me a guy who makes plays to win games. That is all that matters. Great defenses still need quality QB play to win big, we never had a great D and we won big. Someday you guys will realize what we had.
     
  11. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I make things up? I can document everything I've said. You on the other hand made up that with one more start Dilfer would have won..could he have won? absolutely. would he have won? he's a career 500 QB. so likely no.
    "Mark will be the hottest FA QB on the market." I heard those words last off season, and despite there being several starting jobs out there he took (or was only offered?) a backup role where he knew he wasn't going to compete for the starting job.
    No team will build around Mark though as a choice, there are few, if any, building teams that will be looking QB The Bills Might be, the Texans Might be, the Redskins might be looking to....for a new backup to RG III. The Texans are an unlikely landing spot because most people view the two QB's roughly the same way, guys who can make plays but will make the dumb mistake that costs you if you ask them to do much. The Bills might be a landing spot, but I doubt they fully give up on EJ that quickly.

    If Sanchez had wanted a starting job this was his year to get it. The Raiders seem to have found their QB, The Titans are practically gushing about Mettenberger and most expect him to be starting by years end. Tampa is a possibility..but there just aren't a lot of teams that QB is going to be high on their list...at least starting QB's.

    Yes it's hard to win in January....but you got to get to January in order to win there. AND since winning is a team stat........Sorry Junc, what we had was a guy who IF you built a league leading defense and running game around could win by mostly handing the ball off and hoping he didn't make the brain fart dumb ass mistake that cost you too many games. The one year Sanchez kept his mistakes to a minimum the team won a lot of games...every other year they were basically a .500 team....nothing more.
     
  12. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    you hear Mark would be the hottest FA QB on the market last season? from who? we had no idea if we would even release him and he was coming off missing a season w/ a major shoulder injury and you are asking where you make things up?

    There are many teams that will be after Mark, many places where Mark would easily be better than the QBs they have in place now.

    Teams are always looking for QBs and unfortunately for Mark he became a FA a month into FA when Oakland and others had acquired vets.

    w/ a HOFer in 2008 we couldn't make the playoffs despite the easiest sched ever and no Tom Brady.
     
  13. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Actually pretty sure it was from you that said Mark would be snapped up the minute he was cut and have his choice of starting jobs, might have been Hobbes, but pretty sure it was you.

    And no, there aren't many places that Mark would be better than what they have in house. Only 2 or 3 teams are not comitted to young QB's.
    As far as other teams having signed vets....if they wanted mark they would have waited for him....Everyone and their dog knew Sanchez was getting cut.
     
  14. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    you would be wrong again, I never said that and he was scooped up immediately by an offensive guru but obviously not as a starter. Next offseason coming off his impressive camp and preseason and year away from injury he will be highly sought after day 1 of FA.

    of current starters Mark would be an upgrade in:

    Buffalo
    Miami
    NY Jets
    Houston
    Ten
    Jax
    Oak
    Was
    Min
    TB
    Ari
    SL

    and is as good as many others.
     
  15. b.reyes16

    b.reyes16 Well-Known Member

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    HE IS GONE! WHY THE FUCK IS THIS STILL A THING!?!
     
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  16. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    we are 1-6, that's why. if we were winning we'd be past it but we let a better QB go and replaced him w/ a worse QB
     
  17. 1968jetsfan

    1968jetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Wrong on nearly every count.

    he was "scooped" up by an offensive guru....after he didn't receive any starting offers. BTW that offensive guru hasn't even let Sanchez in to a game in mop up duty.
     
  18. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    4-5 teams came at him immediately, there weren't any starting jobs open. he focused in on Philly from the starter b/c it was the best situation.

    so if he came in and handed the ball off in mop up duty that would tell us what?
     
  19. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    Your source for 4-5 teams?
     
  20. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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