So Phil is 9 for 10 in regards to Final wins? Spoelstra is 2 for 4 and isn't nearly on the same level as Phil Jackson. Spoelstra would not replicate Jackson's success that is correct. How many coaches would lead the Lakers to a 3peat? Maybe Popovich from the Spurs? There aren't that many great HCs out there. They are a talented duo that lost in the first round. Dwight is the best defensive C in the league, Harden you can argue is the best SG. At least they should have gotten out of the first round. A coach that focuses on offense and defense could get the Rockets over the top. The Rockets were simply a better team, not the more talented one but the better team. Game 1 was the closest the Magic got that series.
WOW. It's an old time baseball "Hot Stove Meeting", but because of the date, its football. Get together and kick around all the things positive and negative about your team last year…and how it will affect the standings next year. Over 4 pages so far and wandering in and out of context from NFL to NBA. Love it, but won't enter any pithy comments. The ESPN Insider stirs up a hornet nest of controversy. He's earning his pay and promoting the EXPERTISE of ESPN INSIDERS. It' entertaining BS!
Not really entertaining, it's basically cheap fare designing to get fans of every team talking, but since it's on a national scale, it gets pretty much every half head who surfs a forum that has someone that wants to post illegal content to post an opinion. ESPN is now the cheap hooker of sports media, they know their junk is available illegally and don't care. And their junk is sloppy and diseased anyway, which makes the honest payouts feel cheated.
Huh? If he made it to the Finals in 1995, wouldn't that mean his team won a bunch of games? Or are you talking about just the series he lost? Anyways, Shaq was pretty young in pre-Phil days, as were his significant teammates, like Penny, so you can't expect him to just win all the time. Unless you luck out and make it onto a loaded team, there are growing pains for most players. No, Phil also lost two, aside for the one to the Pistons, the first time they played the Celtics. And you gotta realize, Spoelstra could've easily had more had not Wade's body broken down due to age/injuries. If Wade plays like the younger Wade, Heat probably win this year and LeBron probably stays in Miami. Jackson had better fortune/planning and got to see Jordan/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe and other players like Gasol/Odom in their prime for much longer. I think there are a lot more than just Popovich. There are many good coaches like Larry Brown, Rick Carlisle, Tom Thibodeau, Stan Van Gundy, Doc Rivers, Jeff Hornacek (these days), etc. It's just most of them don't get to even sniff the kind of talent Jackson has had throughout his career, so they toil in relative obscurity, still managing to win a title here and there when they get a chance. Gonna go out on a limb here and predict that the Howard/Harden duo never wins an NBA championship as the two best players on the team. Two very overrated players.
Whatever 9 for 11. Spoelstra and the Heat weren't going to win this year's finals if Wade was healthy. The lack of adjustments made in each game - the Heat still would have lost. They couldn't stop the big men from scoring inside and they couldn't stop the 3s from being made. Jackson is just a better all-around coach that motivates his players better, does better adjustments (ex putting Pippen on Magic instead of Jordan in the 91 finals). The problem you are having here is you believe talent and talent alone will wins you championships. Stan Van Gundy, made awful decisions in his lone Orlando Magic appearance by putting in Jameer Nelson and not staying with Raefer Alston (aka Skip to my Lou). Larry Brown is an awful offensive head coach. Rick Carlisle was fired from the Pacers after that brawl and the Pacers at that time had a lot of talent - never made it to the finals though. Put Phil Jackson on that team and they go to the finals - especially with the Triangle Offense implemented. No coach since Phil left could run the Triangle as efficient.
Here's the thing, are we judging right now or their whole career or the last 3-5 years? Because that really changes who moves up and down. And as you pointed out ,these 1-2 year coaches throw things off. Because if we judge Rex after 1 or 2 years, he probably flies up the list. Very strange ranking system too, only 30 people and 1-5 ranking and not really clarifying if it's ranking the coaches' whole coaching history, their history on that team, their history in the last few years I'm also upset I missed the basketball discussion, that's right in my wheelhouse! I saw the current Houston Rockets tossed around as a talent + bad coaching example and I second it. Talent in basketball can take you very far, it's the way the game is. But you need coaching to put you over the top.
They beat pretty much the same Spurs team the previous year when Wade played more like classic Wade, so I think they would've had a great chance to win again if Wade wasn't a shadow of himself. Big part of them not being able to play good perimeter defense was the fact that Wade just couldn't run around like he used to. It's more than just talent, you need chemistry and hard work and coaching as well, but at the end of the day, teams with the most talent in the league tend to do well. They might not win the title every year, but they win quite often. You can nitpick every coach (including Phil Jackson), but all of those guys achieved much more than Jackson with much, much less. Larry Brown defeated him in those Pistons-Lakers finals when Pistons were massive underdogs, and Jackson, despite his famous ego-management skills couldn't even get Kobe to pass the ball to Shaq. Carlisle's Mavs ran Jackson's Lakers out of the building the year the Mavs won the title. And the fact that Stan Van Gundy got the Magic to the NBA Finals when their best offensive player was either Hedo Turkoglu or Rashard Lewis is pretty damn impressive. Haha, sorry man, not happening. You would never get Phil on that team, because if there was one talent he really did have, it was putting himself in the right situation, and he would have never come to that Houston team, because it has no chance to go anywhere. Their ceiling is to win a playoff series or two, if things break their way. In '97 they lost to miami 3-2 according to this: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Orlando-Magic/21/Playoff_History Also, the way you say it (swept every year) makes it sounds like they sucked. In reality, most of those losses came in NBA or Conference Finals, to outstanding teams (Olajuwon's Rockets, Jordan/Pippen Bulls, Duncan Spurs), so those teams with Shaq were really good. And this was before he developed into early 2000s unstoppable Shaq with an experienced superstar sidekick in Kobe.
he was on the Lakers in 1997, he didn't go to Miami until 2005 No his teams didn't suck but how many star players were getting swept every year?
It's not like he got swept in the first round year after year. He advanced deep into the playoffs most of those years, and just ran into great teams, while he himself wasnt at the top of his game yet, and his teammates certainly weren't. It's kinda like Lebron getting swept against the Spurs in the Finals when he was in Cleveland. Spurs were just a much better team at that point, and LeBron wasn't ready yet, but it's still quite an achievement that he brought that Cavs team all the way to the Finals. Same with Shaq, while he got outplayed by Olajuwon in his prime, he still played well enough to win the Finals, but his teammates didn't play well. And against Utah, at least one of those series was lost because Kobe was still playing at High School level but insisted on shooting(and bricking) every shot in the clutch.
It was timing, Jordan and Pippen were still playing against top caliber competition when flip was their HC. After the east declined in top all star players Phil had just taken over the bulls. The bulls played a bunch of nobodies on their way to their 6 titles. Look at the history, when the lakers and celtics were playing in their prime against each other, there were about 9 hall of famers on the court at the same time. When Jordan and Pippen played, they played against maybe one all star player and a couple of good players.
even if he ran into the greatest teams that's no excuse not to keep his team competitive but what great teams did he run into? 1994 swept 3-0 by Indiana in 1st rd. good team, not great 1995 swept in finals by Houston. I hesitate to call them great b/c if Jordan plays they don't win a title and they were 5 or 6 seed that year but they were really good. 1996 lost to Bulls in conf finals. '96 Bulls were a great team BUT a mediocre Knick team won a game and Seattle did take 2 from them in Finals. 1998 lost 4-0 to Utah. very good, not great team. a team that was taken to game 5 in the 1st rd(when it was best of 5) 1999 Spurs. I don't think that team was great, a few years later they would be great but they lost a game in the 1st rd so why couldn't Shaq and a Laker team that would win title the next year w/ Phil win at least 1 game? 1991 title run: swept Knicks- 1 HOFer in Ewing beat Philly 4-1- 1 HOFer in Barkley swept 2 time defending champ Pistons- 3 HOFers- Isiah, Dumars, Rodman 1992: swept Miami- no HOFers beat Knicks in 7- Ewing HOFer beat Cleveland 4-2- no HOFers but 2 should be in, Daugherty and Price beat Portland 4-2- 1 HOfer- Drexler 1993: swept Atl: 1 HOFer- Dominique swept Cle: none beat NYK in 6: Ewing beat Pho in 6: Barkley 1996: Miami 3-0: Mourning NYK 4-1: Ewing Orl: 4-0 Shaq Sea 4-2: Payton and kemp probably will be but we'll say 1. 1997: Was 3-0: none Atl 4-1: none as of now, Mutombo will make it Mia 4-1: Mourning Utah 4-2: Stockton, Malone 1998: NJ 3-0: none Cha 4-1: none Ind 4-3: Miller, Mullin Utah 4-2: Stockton, Malone total: 21 now let's check Magic and Bird's championships: Magic: 1980: Pho 4-1: none Sea 4-1: Dennis Johnson Phi 4-2: Dr. J 1982: Pho 4-0: Dennis Johnson SA 4-0: Gervin Phi 4-2: Dr. J 1985: Pho 3-0: none Por 4-1: Drexler Den 4-1: Alex English Bos 4-2: Bird, Johnson, McHale, Parrish 1987: Den 3-0: English GS 4-1: Mullin Sea 4-0: none Bos 4-2: Bird, Johnson, McHale, Parrish, Walton(barely played) 1988: SA 3-0: none Utah 4-3: Stockton, Malone Dal 4-3: none Det 4-3: Isiah, Dumars, Rodman total: 23 Bird: 1981: Chi 4-0: Gilmore Phi 4-3: Dr. J Hou 4-2: Malone 1984: Was 3-1: NYK 4-3: King Mil 4-1: Archibald, Lainier LAL 4-3: Magic, Worthy, Kareem, McAdoo 1986: 3-0 Chi: Jordan 4-1 Atl: Dominique 4-0 Mil: none 4-1 Hou: Hakeem, Sampson total: 14 looks pretty similar to me especially when there are going to be more from Jordan's era to make it. The Lakers-Celtics skew each other a bit b/c each team had so many but Bos only beat LAL 1 time and LAL only beat Bos twice.
I think the poll was kind of a going forward assessment. An HC whose team had a bad year last year would not fall too far down the list if before last year he had performed well, like Smith. Sometimes HC's have bad years and bounce back. But I don't think they are assessing the career as a whole in the sense that how an HC did five years ago is not so much an indication of how they will do this coming season as last year and to a diminishing extent the year before that and the year before that. By that measure Rex is overrated by too many here who refuse to acknowledge the Jets have in general performed worse as his tenure has gone on. Having said that I am not predicting Rex will have a continuing negative effect on the team's development. And I am certainly not of the view that he would be primarily responsible if the Jets say do not have a winning record this coming season. It will depend.
Let's be realistic here: 2009- took over team that had HOF QB the year before, no Tom Brady to worry about and the easiest sched we may have ever had and we couldn't make playoffs. he tales team w/ rookie QB to title game. 2010- tales them back to title game 2011- this was only bad year, had issues in LR, team underachieved 2012- was a miracle we were in playoff race in dec w/ the healthy talent we had on O. lost best O and D players early in year. 2013- rookie QB who wasn't ready to play, numerous injuries around him and got us to .500 and 2nd place the last 2 years were the 2 best years of coaching I have seen from a jets HC outside of parcells and the '97 Jets.
So I guess they all played a bunch of nobodies, with the exception of when the lakers and celtics met.
they faced who they faced. looking at that list the Celtics looked like they had the easiest time, then the Bulls then the Lakers but all faced similar obstacles. would Utah be considered a great team if not for the Bulls? they would likely have 2 titles but the Bulls got in their way. all were great teams.
What is with ppl ranking Marvin Lewis top 15 dude has done nothing with the Bengals which has had a pretty good roster for some yrs now
