The Option Offense...

[dcm1602]

So one thing im noticing is this

The Jets new OC

Tony Sparano - Pioneer of the wildcat
Stephen Hill - Dynamic Receiver Jets trade up for, played in... The option offense
Timmy Tebow- Pure Option QB
Terrance Ganaway- Ran option offense with RG3
Robert Griffen- Can you say option offense


Sure it could all be a coincidental, but at the same time, this has to bode incredibly incredibly poorly for Sanchez.

I think we might be seeing WAY more option offensive sets next year than expected

[laxin]

I think this is reading way to far into it...

I doubt this is what put say Stephen Hill over Alshon Jefferey. Stephen Hill was the better prospect. They liked the size/speed combo in Ganaway, and I highly doubt that the picked was driven by the fact that he played in an option offense.

Just another way for someone to speculate on the so-called “QB controversy” that supposedly exists.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

The option is dead in the NFL. It works as a gimmick offense sparingly used but basically NFL players are too fast on defense to let it be more than that.

Tebow's numbers on the ground last year look good on the face of them but Footballoutsiders analyzed him to be about the 26th most effective QB on the ground last year in terms of yards vs potential yards for his team per carry. He was way behind Sanchez, whose 2.3 was ranked 15th or something like that.

If the Jets go heavy wildcat/option next year they're going to be leaving a bunch of production on the field.

[Docny1975]

So one thing im noticing is this

The Jets new OC

Tony Sparano - Pioneer of the wildcat
Stephen Hill - Dynamic Receiver Jets trade up for, played in... The option offense
Timmy Tebow- Pure Option QB
Terrance Ganaway- Ran option offense with RG3
Robert Griffen- Can you say option offense


Sure it could all be a coincidental, but at the same time, this has to bode incredibly incredibly poorly for Sanchez.

I think we might be seeing WAY more option offensive sets next year than expected

I'm expecting a 65 35 split between the two QBs going in of course thats subject to change based on performance. I don't understand the mindset in Football of why you can't have 2 QBs for the longest time teams had 1 RB and that changed. Every other position besides K P is subject to substitutions.

Question: Why is Sparano considered the pioneer of Wildcat didn't we have and use the Seminole before he was around down there? I know not as much used but I remember seeing it occasionally

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Sparano is not the pioneer of the wildcat.

[milo]

This whole "Hill is an option receiver" horseshit is hurting my head. The kid went to school where he went, and they ran what they ran.

The Jets are in the business of evaluating TALENT, not scheme. Would a 6'4" 215 pound guy have had success in a "pro-style" college offense? Of course he would have. Why? Because he's fucking 6'4" 215!!!!!

Are you just supposed to not scout anybody from an option program? Is RG3 an option quarterback, or did he just take the hand he was dealt and run with it?

Seriously I hope people don't really think we're running a fucking college system 100% next year, and if we are we'll go 4-12.

[Don]

So one thing im noticing is this

The Jets new OC

Tony Sparano - Pioneer of the wildcat
Stephen Hill - Dynamic Receiver Jets trade up for, played in... The option offense
Timmy Tebow- Pure Option QB
Terrance Ganaway- Ran option offense with RG3
Robert Griffen- Can you say option offense


Sure it could all be a coincidental, but at the same time, this has to bode incredibly incredibly poorly for Sanchez.

I think we might be seeing WAY more option offensive sets next year than expected

I don't think Sanchez will give a rats ass if all we run is the option as long as we win.

[evojoe67]

I'm all for using Tebow on ST and goal line but after that, take a seat Timmy.

[dcm1602]

Ok Sparano didnt Pioneer it (poor word choice), but he ran that shit into the ground, and maybe revolutionized it in the nfl.

All I know is we added 5 guys to our offense who all played significant roles in the option offense. I dont expect us to purely run an option offense, however, I wouldnt be surprised if we heavily featured it

[sogreedy23]

I'm expecting a 65 35 split between the two QBs going in of course thats subject to change based on performance. I don't understand the mindset in Football of why you can't have 2 QBs for the longest time teams had 1 RB and that changed. Every other position besides K P is subject to substitutions.


The problem is both QBs are so radically different. Yea defenses have to prepare for two QBs, but your problem at RT because the problem on your blindside. The play styles are so radically different for the oline, the WRs, the running backs. I'd rather not get cute, get Tebow in for like 5 O plays a game (max) or something. This is especially a problem because throughout his career, Sanchez has been known as a rhythm passer. I have the same problem as wen Schotty would call 5 great plays in a row, we've advanced 40 yards, then he calls a fucking reverse. Why break the rhythm like that? Taking snaps away from a young maturing rhythm QB is counter productive. If you're going to go with TT as your starter, fine, do it. Don't make it cutesy though, just get it done and have no problem with it.

As for the OP, I don't believe the system in which these players came back from is any indictment of a move away from Sanchez. I hope the organization stands behind him, especially now that he's getting a bit of stability with respect to his offense. I expect great things from Sanchez-30 pTD, maybe like 2 or 3 ruTD with under 15 picks. I don't care if his completion percentage is under 60% again, as long as he's holding on to the ball better and is raising his yards per attempt (enter: Hill:lol:).

To say I'm extremely excited to see this offense under a new coordinator, with new blood at WR and a full new blocking scheme is an understatement. Also excited that they're going to Cortland again so I can make a trip out of it again:)

[Tonetime320]

I hope we don't run the option I was getting excited about stretching the field and having big yardage plays. The option is just boring to me. I'll support anything but winning games but those denver games were down right boring.

[milo]

Two things about the Wildcat:

1) I think everybody took the "20 snaps a game" comment by Rex way too seriously. (By the way this weekend in an interview he said 30) What Rex was trying to say is you don't know if it's 2, 10, or 50, so you have to prepare for it. It was immediately taken as gospel that Sparano's going to run this 35% of the time.

2) Let's say we actually do take it literally and run it 35% of the time starting week 1. After Buffalo, who in my opinion has vastly improved their run (and pass) defense, we play the 1,3,and 8 run D's from last year all in a row. People are making the case for why Sanchez is going to get crushed and benched by week 5. I'd say it's more likely to see San Fran and especially Pittsburgh, with an offseason of film study and a BAD taste in their mouth, completely expose the Wildcat experiment and turn this whole scheme on its ass.

Sparano had the biggest advantage you can have when he had success with the Wildcat: surprise. Denver had it to a degree as well, but there's a year's worth of tape on Tebow now, most notably Belichick's blueprint on how to make him look like an asshole - twice.

Tebow by week 5? Tebow shouldn't be used as more than a Mike Alstott clone UNTIL week 5.

[Shake-N-Bake]

The option is dead in the NFL. It works as a gimmick offense sparingly used but basically NFL players are too fast on defense to let it be more than that.

Tebow's numbers on the ground last year look good on the face of them but Footballoutsiders analyzed him to be about the 26th most effective QB on the ground last year in terms of yards vs potential yards for his team per carry. He was way behind Sanchez, whose 2.3 was ranked 15th or something like that.

If the Jets go heavy wildcat/option next year they're going to be leaving a bunch of production on the field.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Fox's offense is like few offenses in the league. Fox didn't want a prolific offense at all. He wanted to junk up the game to damage both offenses to protect his own defense. IF you want to see Tebow's real value on offense you would have to look at the few times in the game when Fox let him actually play. Such as the end of games when they had to score to win. Tebow dominated in those moments. Fox and Elway also moved the only decent receivers he had before he was made starter.. it was obvious what they were doing to Tebow when they did that.... same reason he isn't there anymore after beating the Steelers in the playoffs.

[Pluvrr]

Its also possible these players fell in the draft due to them being in option offenses. So count our blessings for that if that's the case. Maybe we got better talent because they weren't on offenses to showcase it enough.

I think the Tebow offense is going to shine in ST and goal line situations like evojoe said. Tebow will be the the punt protector which means teams won't know when we will punt or run/throw. Love that. Sanchez gets us to the red zone very well but switching to Tebow in the red zone depending on the situation could really help our TD efficiency.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Its also possible these players fell in the draft due to them being in option offenses. So count our blessings for that if that's the case. Maybe we got better talent because they weren't on offenses to showcase it enough.

I think the Tebow offense is going to shine in ST and goal line situations like evojoe said. Tebow will be the the punt protector which means teams won't know when we will punt or run/throw. Love that. Sanchez gets us to the red zone very well but switching to Tebow in the red zone depending on the situation could really help our TD efficiency.

The jets had the #1 redzone offense in the league last year.

[Tonetime320]

We also lost our vertical threat that got us to number one in the redzone. Unless Stephen Hill can be that guy we have to figure something out..hopefully it's not Tebow but we have to do what we have to do to score.

[Bannon]

The real "option" that might be most viable in the NFL is mostly pre-snap option -- spread out the defense, look at what they are doing, and bust them with a run if they spread it out and a pass over the top if they crowd the box.

It's similar to the audible concept used by many teams and no-huddles, but with a more block-scheme oriented audible system -- i.e. multiple different run variations that can be called at the line. Tebow had the ability to call different things, all of which were run variations. (It's common for many audible schemes in the NFL to have only one run play to go to out of a pass play).

The zone read is a good play -- Cam runs it well also. But it's just that -- a play. It's not an offense. And I don't think "option" in the sense of pitching the ball during the play is a very viable long term approach.

[dcm1602]

We also lost our vertical threat that got us to number one in the redzone. Unless Stephen Hill can be that guy we have to figure something out..hopefully it's not Tebow but we have to do what we have to do to score.

Who was our vertical threat that we lost ?

If youre referring to Plax, I might have to laugh at you quite a bit.

[laxin]

The jets had the #1 redzone offense in the league last year.

Exactly... so Im not sure what putting Tebow in in the redzone accomplishes...

Tebow should be used on 3rd and short, ST’s, H-back, maybe Goal line (instead of just anywhere in the redzone). If you put Tebow in with Conner, Greene/Ganaway, with Hill at WR on 3rd and 2... That could scare some defenses and help our 3rd down conversions tremendously.

[Tonetime320]

Who was our vertical threat that we lost ?

If youre referring to Plax, I might have to laugh at you quite a bit.

Listen I wasn't a huge Plax fan because of his lack of seperation but he made some plays inside the 20. I'm pretty positive he had like 7 or 8 redzone touchdowns 3 of which were in the same game...but if for nothing else the opposition would be looking at him as a threat and focusing on him even if you weren't. We now don't have a big guy to go up and grab the football unless Stephen Hill or Hayden smith pan out. I'm not too worried about it I like Stephen Hill from what I have seen.

[Tonetime320]

Actually my bad I forgot all about Chaz Schilens he's pretty lanky.

[DRC™]

Tim Tebow played in Urban Meyer's spread option, which is not the same as the triple option, which is not the same as the spread that Baylor run

Thread fail

[KurtTheJetsFan]

The option is dead in the NFL. It works as a gimmick offense sparingly used but basically NFL players are too fast on defense to let it be more than that.

Tebow's numbers on the ground last year look good on the face of them but Footballoutsiders analyzed him to be about the 26th most effective QB on the ground last year in terms of yards vs potential yards for his team per carry. He was way behind Sanchez, whose 2.3 was ranked 15th or something like that.

If the Jets go heavy wildcat/option next year they're going to be leaving a bunch of production on the field.

The pieced together option is dead. In other words..teams in early season funk's looking for a quick way to spark an offense is dead.

But what if a team actually built an option offense complete with specific talent from the ground up? I'm not saying that's exactly what the Jets are doing but with the right personnel, & a more dense playbook with more complex option looks..I'm not so sure it wouldn't work. Especially for a cold weather team with a Rex Ryan defense.

[MaximusD163]

We also lost our vertical threat that got us to number one in the redzone. Unless Stephen Hill can be that guy we have to figure something out..hopefully it's not Tebow but we have to do what we have to do to score.

Verticl threat? Do you mean Plaxico Burress? He was never a "vertical" threat, but if you mean his height, we have multiple tall receivers in Patrick Turner, Chaz Schillens, and Stephen Hill, so that will not be a problem.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

The pieced together option is dead. In other words..teams in early season funk's looking for a quick way to spark an offense is dead.

But what if a team actually built an option offense complete with specific talent from the ground up? I'm not saying that's exactly what the Jets are doing but with the right personnel, & a more dense playbook with more complex option looks..I'm not so sure it wouldn't work. Especially for a cold weather team with a Rex Ryan defense.

If teams tried to run the option in the NFL they're toast. NFL linebackers and safeties are too big, fast and smart to allow a branching offense that operates behind the line of scrimmage to succeed.

[strngplyr]

The option in the NFL died on January 14th.

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[Tonetime320]

Yeah you're right I meant he was more physical in the air not so much in release off of the line though which I now realize completely defeats the purpose of a reciever being a legit "vertical threat". But the guy could go up for the ball. I really do like Stephen Hill after watching highlights of him and with Plax gone now Patrick Turner can have a bigger year as well atleast depending on if Sanchez is under center.

[AbdulSalam]

Loving all the option guys to come in run the Tebow packages. Should be fun to watch and I think Tebow will be very successful throwing the long ball to Hill as well.

[JET'S_my_name]

I wouldn't look too deep into it. A lot of college teams run a form of the spread. I do find it interesting though, that's it's usually a big knock on guys, but almost no one mentioned during all this mock draft and draft stuff that RG3 never took an under center snap. Previous years it was a stock killer.

[tzinc]

if you look at the plays where they actually ran option in Denver almost every play was a good for positive yardage

where the DEN offense faltered was in the non-option, very predictable calls lack of imagination

look at the option Tebow ran under Meyer in Florida they had all kinds of passing

spread WRs unlike DEN 2 WR sets these sets had 3 4 and even 5 wrs

all kinds of play action and screens unlike DEN

that is what the Jets need to run with Tebow

[klecko73]

Tebow will be on the field about 20 times a game, but probably not how you think.
Way I figure it...

6 punts per game (Jets average last year)
4 kicks per game (if the Jets use him as holder)
10 plays per game (at a combo of RB, H-back, TE, QB in goal line/ 2pt conversion scenarios)

[strngplyr]

if you look at the plays where they actually ran option in Denver almost every play was a good for positive yardage

where the DEN offense faltered was in the non-option, very predictable calls lack of imagination

look at the option Tebow ran under Meyer in Florida they had all kinds of passing

spread WRs unlike DEN 2 WR sets these sets had 3 4 and even 5 wrs

all kinds of play action and screens unlike DEN

that is what the Jets need to run with Tebow

Denver lost yards on nearly every option play against NE after the 2nd quarter in the first game they played through the end of the playoff game. Once you see it once, its not hard to teach players how to stop it.

[Catt_County]

The real "option" that might be most viable in the NFL is mostly pre-snap option -- spread out the defense, look at what they are doing, and bust them with a run if they spread it out and a pass over the top if they crowd the box.

It's similar to the audible concept used by many teams and no-huddles, but with a more block-scheme oriented audible system -- i.e. multiple different run variations that can be called at the line. Tebow had the ability to call different things, all of which were run variations. (It's common for many audible schemes in the NFL to have only one run play to go to out of a pass play).

The zone read is a good play -- Cam runs it well also. But it's just that -- a play. It's not an offense. And I don't think "option" in the sense of pitching the ball during the play is a very viable long term approach.

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can read defenses, pre-snap or post-snap.

[ILL-AL]

So does this mean Redskins are going to run the "option"? You know, drafting RGIII and all SMH

[dcm1602]

So does this mean Redskins are going to run the "option"? You know, drafting RGIII and all SMH

Yes because drafting one guy is the same as adding a OC, QB, WR, HB, and OL who all have significant experience running option offenses.

The exact same thing.

[Bannon]

Tebow will be on the field about 20 times a game, but probably not how you think.
Way I figure it...

6 punts per game (Jets average last year)
4 kicks per game (if the Jets use him as holder)
10 plays per game (at a combo of RB, H-back, TE, QB in goal line/ 2pt conversion scenarios)

But that is how I think. No way it gets to 20 without counting some of those things.

[Bannon]

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can read defenses, pre-snap or post-snap.

Tebow can, pre-snap. That's how his whole game is geared.

He's getting better at post-snap. (Which is apparently pretty important. :breakdance:)

[Demosthenes9]

The option is dead in the NFL. It works as a gimmick offense sparingly used but basically NFL players are too fast on defense to let it be more than that.

Tebow's numbers on the ground last year look good on the face of them but Footballoutsiders analyzed him to be about the 26th most effective QB on the ground last year in terms of yards vs potential yards for his team per carry. He was way behind Sanchez, whose 2.3 was ranked 15th or something like that.

If the Jets go heavy wildcat/option next year they're going to be leaving a bunch of production on the field.

If teams tried to run the option in the NFL they're toast. NFL linebackers and safeties are too big, fast and smart to allow a branching offense that operates behind the line of scrimmage to succeed.

The option isn't even close to being dead in the NFL. What you saw last year was Mike McCoy grabbing a handful of option plays and inserting them into Denver's offense.

With an OC that really knows what they are doing, the Option is extremely difficult to stop, especially when you start getting into the different variations.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

The option isn't even close to being dead in the NFL. What you saw last year was Mike McCoy grabbing a handful of option plays and inserting them into Denver's offense.

With an OC that really knows what they are doing, the Option is extremely difficult to stop, especially when you start getting into the different variations.

No, it's not hard to stop at all. If it was you'd have a bunch of teams running it. Michael Vick would have run it. All the Option QB's that came out of Option offenses in college would have run it instead of being converted to safety, WR or a Pro set.

Many high school offenses are option based. A fair percentage of college offenses are option based. NO NFL offenses are option based, despite the fact that many players have played nothing but the option since high school and so there are many players who understand the various option systems.

Why do NO NFL teams run the option? Because it is an offense that depends on the offense being more coherent and faster than the defense. By the time you get to the NFL level that is no longer true. Defenses are fast, coherent and they attack the offense almost as much as the offense attacks them.

If the Option was an option it would be run. Tim Tebow doesn't change that fact. The fact that the Broncos tried to cobble together an Option offense for Tim Tebow last year just tells you how bad Tim Tebow is at doing the things that an NFL QB has to do to play the position effectively in the NFL. It doesn't mean the Option is suddenly viable. It's not. It just means that Tim Tebow is a sucky QB, and yes, he is.

[Demosthenes9]

So one thing im noticing is this

The Jets new OC

Tony Sparano - Pioneer of the wildcat
Stephen Hill - Dynamic Receiver Jets trade up for, played in... The option offense
Timmy Tebow- Pure Option QB
Terrance Ganaway- Ran option offense with RG3
Robert Griffen- Can you say option offense


Sure it could all be a coincidental, but at the same time, this has to bode incredibly incredibly poorly for Sanchez.

I think we might be seeing WAY more option offensive sets next year than expected



Think it's nothing but coincidence as more and more college teams are going to "option" systems. That said, I'm hoping that our "Wildcat" will actually be the Spread Option and it certainly won't hurt to have players with option experience.

That said, the drafted players will work very well with Sanchez also, so you can't really read anything into it. I mean, a 6'5" receiver who runs a 4.3 40 is good to have regardless of what system he came from.

[Demosthenes9]

No, it's not hard to stop at all. If it was you'd have a bunch of teams running it. Michael Vick would have run it. All the Option QB's that came out of Option offenses in college would have run it instead of being converted to safety, WR or a Pro set.

The reason most teams and QBs don't run the option is that they don't have the QBs that can take the hits. Vick gets injured if you freaking stare at him too intently.


Many high school offenses are option based. A fair percentage of college offenses are option based. NO NFL offenses are option based, despite the fact that many players have played nothing but the option since high school and so there are many players who understand the various option systems.

Why do NO NFL teams run the option? Because it is an offense that depends on the offense being more coherent and faster than the defense. By the time you get to the NFL level that is no longer true. Defenses are fast, coherent and they attack the offense almost as much as the offense attacks them.

If the Option was an option it would be run. Tim Tebow doesn't change that fact. The fact that the Broncos tried to cobble together an Option offense for Tim Tebow last year just tells you how bad Tim Tebow is at doing the things that an NFL QB has to do to play the position effectively in the NFL. It doesn't mean the Option is suddenly viable. It's not. It just means that Tim Tebow is a sucky QB, and yes, he is.

Really ? All that huh ? Hmm, seem to recall that Cam Newton had a stupidly good year this year. Guess what they run quite a bit of down in Carolina ? Yep, the Spread Option and the Read Option. Two differences really between Denver and Carolina last year; first: Cam Newton is a better passer than Tebow, second: Chudzinski did a hell of a lot better job designing the offense and Carolina did a great job of stacking it with the right type of players.


BTW, do you know one of the major reasons why teams in college and highschool run Option offenses ? This will come as a shock to you, but it's because they often face teams with much greater talent, size, and speed. The Option offense helps to level the playing field as it gives the offense a +1 advantage AT MINIMUM. Often, it can give the offense a 2 player advantage.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

@Demosthenes9

If you think the option is a viable NFL offense in the absence of it being run anywhere as more than a gimmick and with the only team to run it as more than a gimmick immediately doing everything they could to get rid of the guy who enabled it, well have at the lunacy. That's all it is.

[Demosthenes9]

@Demosthenes9

If you think the option is a viable NFL offense in the absence of it being run anywhere as more than a gimmick and with the only team to run it as more than a gimmick immediately doing everything they could to get rid of the guy who enabled it, well have at the lunacy. That's all it is.

"only team to run it" ?

Newsflash for you, they ran a heck of a lot of Option down in Carolina this past year with a QB you might have heard of, does the name Cam Newton ring a bell ?

Nice to see that you apparently can't argue specifics about Option football, but instead, can only come up with bullshit like this.

Tell me, just out of curiousity, do you know or understand the fundamental basics of option football, and why it is successful ? Do you know or understand the underlying philosophy of the Spread Option ?

[Demosthenes9]

@Demosthenes9

If you think the option is a viable NFL offense in the absence of it being run anywhere as more than a gimmick and with the only team to run it as more than a gimmick immediately doing everything they could to get rid of the guy who enabled it, well have at the lunacy. That's all it is.


Cam Newton busting a 49 yard TD run on a Read /OPTION play.

Oh yeah, and that was in Week 16 of the season. You know, when teams supposedly should have figured out how to stop the Option attack.


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You might want to rethink that "only team to run it" comment.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Cam Newton busting a 49 yard TD run on a Read /OPTION play.

Oh yeah, and that was in Week 16 of the season. You know, when teams supposedly should have figured out how to stop the Option attack.


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You might want to rethink that "only team to run it" comment.

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Find the word option in this description of the Panther's offense from the hometown Charlotte Observer on Dec 19, 2011.

Don't you think they'd have used the word "option" somewhere in this fairly good article on the Panther's offensive turnaround from 2010 to 2011?

Don't you think that if the Panthers were running an option offense the article would have mentioned Cam Newton running the option offense?

The Panthers ran a vertical attack last year which included Cam Newton carrying the ball on designed plays more often than most QB's do. They didn't run the option as more than a very minor gimmick package in the overall offense. If they had surely the word option would have featured prominently in the article in question as opposed to not being mentioned once...

[red75bronco]

The reason most teams and QBs don't run the option is that they don't have the QBs that can take the hits. Vick gets injured if you freaking stare at him too intently.



Really ? All that huh ? Hmm, seem to recall that Cam Newton had a stupidly good year this year. Guess what they run quite a bit of down in Carolina ? Yep, the Spread Option and the Read Option. Two differences really between Denver and Carolina last year; first: Cam Newton is a better passer than Tebow, second: Chudzinski did a hell of a lot better job designing the offense and Carolina did a great job of stacking it with the right type of players.


BTW, do you know one of the major reasons why teams in college and highschool run Option offenses ? This will come as a shock to you, but it's because they often face teams with much greater talent, size, and speed. The Option offense helps to level the playing field as it gives the offense a +1 advantage AT MINIMUM. Often, it can give the offense a 2 player advantage.

didnt teblow break a rib or something against NE? They said he could not have played the following week if Denver won.

[Demosthenes9]

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Find the word option in this description of the Panther's offense from the hometown Charlotte Observer on Dec 19, 2011.

Don't you think they'd have used the word "option" somewhere in this fairly good article on the Panther's offensive turnaround from 2010 to 2011?

Don't you think that if the Panthers were running an option offense the article would have mentioned Cam Newton running the option offense?

The Panthers ran a vertical attack last year which included Cam Newton carrying the ball on designed plays more often than most QB's do. They didn't run the option as more than a very minor gimmick package in the overall offense. If they had surely the word option would have featured prominently in the article in question as opposed to not being mentioned once...

Dude, it's not a "fairly good article" on the Panther's offense. I mean, I searched and searched and can't find the word SHOTGUN in that article, does that mean the Panther's didn't spend a lot of time in the gun ?

I can't find the phrase "I formation". Does that mean they didn't run from the I ?

I can't find the phrase "single back set". Does that mean they didn't run single back sets ?

I can't find the word "Fullback". Does that mean they didn't have one ?

I can't find the words "Tight end". Does that mean that they didn't have those either ?

BTW, just for kicks, here's something from ESPN:

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Breaking with the traditional way of thinking that a rookie quarterback should shut up and conform to a team's offensive playbook, Rivera hired Chudzinski, who'd coached with Rivera on Norv Turner's staff in San Diego. Pale-faced and bespectacled, the 43-year-old Chudzinski is an emerging rock star in NFL coaching circles. After arriving in Charlotte, he installed a variation of the Chargers' aggressive vertical passing offense while mixing in a heavy dose of the read-option package Newton ran at Auburn.

Or a article from Tampa Bay after they faced the Panthers?

The Bucs defense also did its part. Newton and running backs Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams combined to rush 20 times for 219 yards. Even though they practiced stopping the Panthers' spread option all week, the Bucs seemed helpless against it.

"It's like college football," cornerback Ronde Barber said. "You get ready for this week and you feel like you're back at your alumni trying to get a big option guy down on the ground. (Newton's) difficult."

Or how about NFL.com ??

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Newton, Tebow prove spread option will work in the NFL


Or, just for kicks, how about the same Charlotte Observer that you grabbed your article from ?

Chudzinski, 43, led the Panthers to the most prolific offensive season in their 17-year history. With rookie quarterback Cam Newton directing Chudzinski's diverse attack, featuring option runs and downfield passes, Carolina finished with a franchise-record 6,237 yards.

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[Demosthenes9]

didnt teblow break a rib or something against NE? They said he could not have played the following week if Denver won.

Fair point, though I would add that Tebow was injured when he got crushed while standing in the pocket, as opposed to while running down field. I'd go further and argue that Tebow is safer running down field than he is standing in the pocket.

[Demosthenes9]

The Panthers ran a vertical attack last year which included Cam Newton carrying the ball on designed plays more often than most QB's do. They didn't run the option as more than a very minor gimmick package in the overall offense. If they had surely the word option would have featured prominently in the article in question as opposed to not being mentioned once...

BTW, I have to ask at this point, do you really even understand what the Spread Option or Read Option are and how they work?

[Sloup]

Just because teams don't run the option doesn't mean that it can't work. My hunch is that teams want to get the most value out of their players as possible, and part of that is not letting your QB get beat up as much as you can avoid it so he can keep running the offense.

[RochesterJet]

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can read defenses, pre-snap or post-snap.

your right, they are NFL QB's that cant read a Defense. Thats why they both got drafted in round 1, and have won playoff games...When was the last tme Buffalo had either? RIGHT...STFU

[Catt_County]

your right, they are NFL QB's that cant read a Defense. Thats why they both got drafted in round 1, and have won playoff games...When was the last tme Buffalo had either? RIGHT...STFU

Oh, yeah, drafting a QB = success! :rofl2:

Whatever happened to David Carr, Joey Harrington, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and JaMarcus Russell, all QBs drafted in the top ten who never learned how to read defenses, either? :lol: I expect that Mark Sanchez will be added to this list within the next two seasons.

As for Tebow, he's proof that HCs should never be given total/major power over personnel decisions. Only somebody as stoooopid and incompetent as Josh McDaniel would trade away Jay Cutler and then draft Tim Tebow in the first round!

[TurkJetFan]

So one thing im noticing is this

The Jets new OC

Tony Sparano - Pioneer of the wildcat
Stephen Hill - Dynamic Receiver Jets trade up for, played in... The option offense
Timmy Tebow- Pure Option QB
Terrance Ganaway- Ran option offense with RG3
Robert Griffen- Can you say option offense


Sure it could all be a coincidental, but at the same time, this has to bode incredibly incredibly poorly for Sanchez.

I think we might be seeing WAY more option offensive sets next year than expected

i guess it depends who was expecting what.

[reverseapachemaster]

If there was an option to make Tebow go away I'd say let's play that every down.

[Shake-N-Bake]

Cam Newton is a better passer than Tebow

Believe it or not but this is not true.. cam had a loaded offense last season and even in college.

Tebow had the complete opposite last season.. weak O and good D.

Even in college everyone said Cam played as well as Tebow on a far worse team.. yet without Cam and after losing the whole team Auburn beat Florida last year.

Everyone raves about Cam's passing last year but his bad D allowed his offense to put up big numbers in games he didn't win. People also ignore all his interceptions for some odd reason. Like Tebow couldn't put up big numbers on a good O and rack up lots of interceptions? If he had done that all people would talk about are the losses and interceptions.

Tebow had more wins than Cam in 5 fewer games and with coaches and a team trying to bring him down where they were coddling Cam.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Believe it or not but this is not true.. cam had a loaded offense last season and even in college.

Tebow had the complete opposite last season.. weak O and good D.

Even in college everyone said Cam played as well as Tebow on a far worse team.. yet without Cam and after losing the whole team Auburn beat Florida last year.

Everyone raves about Cam's passing last year but his bad D allowed his offense to put up big numbers in games he didn't win. People also ignore all his interceptions for some odd reason. Like Tebow couldn't put up big numbers on a good O and rack up lots of interceptions? If he had done that all people would talk about are the losses and interceptions.

Tebow had more wins than Cam in 5 fewer games and with coaches and a team trying to bring him down where they were coddling Cam.
Cam Newton is a far better passer than Tim Tebow. Stop with this delusional shit. Are you the same guy that said Tebow's throwing motion is the same as Favre's?

[Shake-N-Bake]

Cam Newton is a far better passer than Tim Tebow. Stop with this delusional shit. Are you the same guy that said Tebow's throwing motion is the same as Favre's?

Put Cam Newton under John Fox and see if he performs as well as Tebow did last year.. you have to be delusional to think he would

Cam is a better short passer than Tebow.. but since when is being a short passer more valuable than being a deep passer?

Cam LOOKS prettier passing the ball but who gives a crap? It's about effectiveness.. I have seen Tebow make passes to win games Cam has NEVER made. He had plenty of opportunities to win games last season and couldn't do it.. UNTIL he started mimicking the way Tebow plays and passed less and ran more.

Tebow trained Cam in college now he's training him in the pros too... Without Tebow there would be no Cam Newton.

[CowboysFan]

The option is dead in the NFL. It works as a gimmick offense sparingly used but basically NFL players are too fast on defense to let it be more than that.

Tebow's numbers on the ground last year look good on the face of them but Footballoutsiders analyzed him to be about the 26th most effective QB on the ground last year in terms of yards vs potential yards for his team per carry. He was way behind Sanchez, whose 2.3 was ranked 15th or something like that.

If the Jets go heavy wildcat/option next year they're going to be leaving a bunch of production on the field.

Can you post that football outsiders link, I looked everywhere but could not find it, I would like to see it.

[catfish]

Can you post that football outsiders link, I looked everywhere but could not find it, I would like to see it.

profootballfocus.com had him rated as the second best running qb, but 4th worst passing qb, pretty much where I would put him.

disclaimer, the article is pretty negative on Sanchez, I didn't write it so don't blame the messenger

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

edit:

I believe this is wha the previous poster was referring to

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[MURDR]

Did we probably draft a few players to aid in our Wildcat offense? Yes, it appears that way. But does trying to improve our Wildcat mean Tebow will become the starter and we will run the option exclusively? Not even close.

[Shake-N-Bake]

Did we probably draft a few players to aid in our Wildcat offense? Yes, it appears that way. But does trying to improve our Wildcat mean Tebow will become the starter and we will run the option exclusively? Not even close.

That's true. We really have no way of knowing. The Jets brass could be lying just as easily as telling the truth. Look at the Cleveland Browns before they drafted Weeden. They acted as if they were all in with Colt and then did completely the opposite.

[TTTTebowAndTheJets]

Why was this moved to tebowmania? It was a thread started dissecting the possibility of the Jets using the option given some of the players recently drafted and Sporano as the OC... Just because some people discuss tebow within a thread doesn't mean it needs to be sequestered and quarantined as if it's diseased...

This was a Jets thread, not a Tebow thread.... Just my $0.02

[Bannon]

Why was this moved to tebowmania? It was a thread started dissecting the possibility of the Jets using the option given some of the players recently drafted and Sporano as the OC... Just because some people discuss tebow within a thread doesn't mean it needs to be sequestered and quarantined as if it's diseased...

This was a Jets thread, not a Tebow thread.... Just my $0.02

Don's sweat it. It will be fun to watch heads explode when Timmy is leading the Jets to championships --- Derp? What forum for this?!

[TTTTebowAndTheJets]

Don's sweat it. It will be fun to watch heads explode when Timmy is leading the Jets to championships --- Derp? What forum for this?!

Thats probably the main reason i want to see Tim succeed.... just to watch all the crow eating. I enjoyed it last year on the Denver forums and can't wait to see it this year.

[Bannon]

Thats probably the main reason i want to see Tim succeed.... just to watch all the crow eating. I enjoyed it last year on the Denver forums and can't wait to see it this year.

Might not be this year. And maybe he'll help them when as something other than the starter at quarterback.

But I think this "Tebowmania" subforum will be a constant albatross when actual wins, actual football feats involving Tebow are coming up for discussion. I think it will be realized that it's kind of problematic to start a special forum -- because that "derp" moment will come, one way or another, sooner or later.

[Demosthenes9]

Believe it or not but this is not true.. cam had a loaded offense last season and even in college.

Tebow had the complete opposite last season.. weak O and good D.

Even in college everyone said Cam played as well as Tebow on a far worse team.. yet without Cam and after losing the whole team Auburn beat Florida last year.

Everyone raves about Cam's passing last year but his bad D allowed his offense to put up big numbers in games he didn't win. People also ignore all his interceptions for some odd reason. Like Tebow couldn't put up big numbers on a good O and rack up lots of interceptions? If he had done that all people would talk about are the losses and interceptions.

Tebow had more wins than Cam in 5 fewer games and with coaches and a team trying to bring him down where they were coddling Cam.

Ummm, yes, it is indeed true that Cam is a better passer than Tebow. Much of that is due to his good mechanics.

Jesus, why does everyone think that things are binary, and that if you say one person is better at something, that it must mean that the other person sucks at it ?

It doesn't matter that Cam had a loaded offense this year or in college. The FACT is that he is a more polished passer. This one simply isn't up for debate. Watch him throwing the ball and watch Tebow.

Cam also had the benefit of taking snaps from under center while at Blinn Jr. College and at Auburn as well. I.e. he already has experience with taking the snap, doing 3, 5, and 7 yard drops, and having the correct footwork.

All of these are things that Tebow is still working on.

As for the interceptions, that doesn't speak to his PASSING ability, rather, it says something about his decision making ability.

[VanderbiltJets]

As for the interceptions, that doesn't speak to his PASSING ability, rather, it says something about his decision making ability.

So are interceptions exclusively decision-making mistakes? I hope that's not what you're implying. They're both about decision-making and accuracy (you can make a great decision but if your accuracy is crap the decision-making didn't cause the INT).

[Shake-N-Bake]

It doesn't matter that Cam had a loaded offense this year or in college. The FACT is that he is a more polished passer. This one simply isn't up for debate. Watch him throwing the ball and watch Tebow.

No.. all that matters are results.. when it mattered most Tebow was the better passer.. you are condemning him because his motion looks weird and because he played in Fox's offense.

Who are you to say what mechanics are right and what are wrong? There is no real science there.. Tebow may have a longer weirder looking motion but it may be more effective.. people make assumptions that aren't based on anything.. that doesn't make them right it's all guess work. IF they knew what they were talking about all these QBs wouldn't bust and you wouldn't have guys like Tom Brady and Brees surpassing expectations all the time..

By you logic Cam Newton shouldn't even be int he NFL because there are countless QBs that look like better passers than Cam..

Cam also had the benefit of taking snaps from under center while at Blinn Jr. College and at Auburn as well. I.e. he already has experience with taking the snap, doing 3, 5, and 7 yard drops, and having the correct footwork.

And yet won fewer games... and had tons of interceptions.. and a worse running game than Tebow witha better offense...

All of these are things that Tebow is still working on.

Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs.. I think cam is the one that needs the work not Tebow..

As for the interceptions, that doesn't speak to his PASSING ability, rather, it says something about his decision making ability.

WTF? that makes zero sense... if Tebow had all those interceptions people would say it was his long throwing motion that caused them... it just shows how it's all BS.. looks mean nothing. Orton looks like a more polished passer and decision maker than Tebow and Cam combined.. yet he has been kicked to the curb time and time again..

[Demosthenes9]

So are interceptions exclusively decision-making mistakes? I hope that's not what you're implying. They're both about decision-making and accuracy (you can make a great decision but if your accuracy is crap the decision-making didn't cause the INT).

In my view, most (not all) interceptions come down to decision making. It might be a QB thinking that he's more accurate than he really is, and trying to stick a ball in a place he has little chance of hitting. Or, he might think that he can throw it harder and blow right past a defender. Yada, yada, yada.

[VanderbiltJets]

In my view, most (not all) interceptions come down to decision making. It might be a QB thinking that he's more accurate than he really is, and trying to stick a ball in a place he has little chance of hitting. Or, he might think that he can throw it harder and blow right past a defender. Yada, yada, yada.

Oh ok. That's fair

[Demosthenes9]

No.. all that matters are results.. when it mattered most Tebow was the better passer.. you are condemning him because his motion looks weird and because he played in Fox's offense.

Who are you to say what mechanics are right and what are wrong? There is no real science there.. Tebow may have a longer weirder looking motion but it may be more effective.. people make assumptions that aren't based on anything.. that doesn't make them right it's all guess work. IF they knew what they were talking about all these QBs wouldn't bust and you wouldn't have guys like Tom Brady and Brees surpassing expectations all the time..

By you logic Cam Newton shouldn't even be int he NFL because there are countless QBs that look like better passers than Cam..



And yet won fewer games... and had tons of interceptions.. and a worse running game than Tebow witha better offense...



Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs.. I think cam is the one that needs the work not Tebow..



WTF? that makes zero sense... if Tebow had all those interceptions people would say it was his long throwing motion that caused them... it just shows how it's all BS.. looks mean nothing. Orton looks like a more polished passer and decision maker than Tebow and Cam combined.. yet he has been kicked to the curb time and time again..


Good lord, don't really even know where to begin. Guess I'll start with the fundamentals, and that is noting that there is a difference between saying that someone is a good "passer" and saying that they are a good QB.

Guess what ? Kyle Orton WAS a better passer than Tebow was last year. That said, Tebow was a better QUARTERBACK. Orton's problems aren't that he can't pass the ball. His biggest problems are that he crumples like a napkin under pressure and that he has little leadership ability. He's not a guy that can lead his team anywhere, but sure, he can come in and throw some pretty passes if need be.

As to your comments about Brees and Brady, again, that speaks to the difference between talking about a "passer" and talking about someone's ability as a QB. "Passing" is just one component of being a QB, and one can be a good QB without being a great passer. One can also be a great passer, but a lousy QB.

[Remarker]

Reminder:
There was a time when passing the football was looked upon as a loser 'system'.

Currently most NFL gurus believe a pure pocket passer is the key to SB paradise.

Based on the current successes of more athletic QBs, we may be witnessing the NFL's next evolutionary step.

[Shake-N-Bake]

Guess what ? Kyle Orton WAS a better passer than Tebow was last year. That said, Tebow was a better QUARTERBACK. Orton's problems aren't that he can't pass the ball. His biggest problems are that he crumples like a napkin under pressure and that he has little leadership ability. He's not a guy that can lead his team anywhere, but sure, he can come in and throw some pretty passes if need be.

There are multiple errors in your logic here.. first of all.. Orton is NOT a better passer than Tebow.. this goes to the heart of all the misconceptions. Orton played with Lloyd last season Tebow did not. Last season Tebow outplayed Orton on the same team. Tebow is a far better deep passer than Orton.. Orton has a weaker arm yet no one mentioned this last season when everyone was saying Tebow had no business starting over Orton. It just goes to show that Tebow is viewed irrationally... Again.. I saw Tebow make far better passes to win games than Orton did. So is Orton a better passer than Tebow?

Orton and Cam are a lot alike.. they both excel passing short. I don't know how this came to be considered being a better passer... being a weak downfield passer kills your run game. Running wins playoff games..

When Cam quit trying to pass the ball so much and therefore quit turning the ball over and ran more like Tebow he won more games last season. He learned that watching Tebow.

Just because Tebow doesn't have to rely on his passing doesn't mean he can't pass. He was hamstrung by having no receivers last season and having no real offense..

[Demosthenes9]

There are multiple errors in your logic here.. first of all.. Orton is NOT a better passer than Tebow.. this goes to the heart of all the misconceptions. Orton played with Lloyd last season Tebow did not. Last season Tebow outplayed Orton on the same team. Tebow is a far better deep passer than Orton.. Orton has a weaker arm yet no one mentioned this last season when everyone was saying Tebow had no business starting over Orton. It just goes to show that Tebow is viewed irrationally... Again.. I saw Tebow make far better passes to win games than Orton did. So is Orton a better passer than Tebow?

Orton and Cam are a lot alike.. they both excel passing short. I don't know how this came to be considered being a better passer... being a weak downfield passer kills your run game. Running wins playoff games..

When Cam quit trying to pass the ball so much and therefore quit turning the ball over and ran more like Tebow he won more games last season. He learned that watching Tebow.

Just because Tebow doesn't have to rely on his passing doesn't mean he can't pass. He was hamstrung by having no receivers last season and having no real offense..

Dude, you can't be serious. Really, just stop.

[Shake-N-Bake]

Dude, you can't be serious. Really, just stop.

Just remember I told you so... looks can be very deceiving. Do you remember last preseason when everyone said Colt McCoy was going to tear the NFL up? They said he was a better passer than Tebow too.. the dude has a weeny for an arm.. he was living off gimmicky dinking and dunking.. a lot like Cam.. Cam just has a much better offense..

[MURDR]

There are multiple errors in your logic here.. first of all.. Orton is NOT a better passer than Tebow

This is the single most retarded statement I have ever read in my entire life. You Tebots are ridiculous.

Tebow is our Wildcat QB, he will not start a single game for the Jets while Sanchez is on the tea, barring injury, and if he does start games for us, prepare to go back to being the SOJ and going 4-12 every other season. He's a shit quarterback and has no business throwing the ball in the NFL. The only thing he should be doing is running it.

[MURDR]

Just remember I told you so... looks can be very deceiving. Do you remember last preseason when everyone said Colt McCoy was going to tear the NFL up? They said he was a better passer than Tebow too.. the dude has a weeny for an arm.. he was living off gimmicky dinking and dunking.. a lot like Cam.. Cam just has a much better offense..

Not being able to throw far does not mean you can't throw well. You're an idiot if you believe that.

[#1 Jets Fan]

Don's sweat it. It will be fun to watch heads explode when Timmy is leading the Jets to championships --- Derp? What forum for this?!He would had won it last season but he ran into that great 31st rank Pats D that stop him.

[Bannon]

He would had won it last season but he ran into that great 31st rank Pats D that stop him.

Oops! I thought it was a team effort?

Oh, that's right. Only the wins are a team effort.

[Shake-N-Bake]

Not being able to throw far does not mean you can't throw well. You're an idiot if you believe that.

Yes it does in my book. Otherwise you need other players to bail you out by getting yards after catch... it would be like a game manager needing a runningback to carry them like Sanchez...

[Shake-N-Bake]

This is the single most retarded statement I have ever read in my entire life. You Tebots are ridiculous.

Tebow is our Wildcat QB, he will not start a single game for the Jets while Sanchez is on the tea, barring injury, and if he does start games for us, prepare to go back to being the SOJ and going 4-12 every other season. He's a shit quarterback and has no business throwing the ball in the NFL. The only thing he should be doing is running it.

You are dead wrong.... Tebow, does things unconventionally.. he doesn't have to do things like other Qbs. This is why people assume he can't pass.. but in clutch moments you see him make plays that guys who are supposed to be great can't make.

You know what a great analogy for this is? Michael Jordan in his prime. He wasn't considered a good shooter.. but when he had to shoot he was unstoppable and dominant... this is for the same reason.. it's because Tebow and Jordan don't have to rely on that aspect of their game. if they did they would be great at it.. just like Jordan was as he got older.

[displacedfan]

You are dead wrong.... Tebow, does things unconventionally.. he doesn't have to do things like other Qbs. This is why people assume he can't pass.. but in clutch moments you see him make plays that guys who are supposed to be great can't make.

You know what a great analogy for this is? Michael Jordan in his prime. He wasn't considered a good shooter.. but when he had to shoot he was unstoppable and dominant... this is for the same reason.. it's because Tebow and Jordan don't have to rely on that aspect of their game. if they did they would be great at it.. just like Jordan was as he got older.

This might be the worst analogy ever.