Tebow draft day bait?

[Jetfan76]

Perhaps this has been brought up before,if so I havent seen it.Seriously does anyone think that it completely out of the real of possibilities for the Jets to look into moving up to the 7th overall in the draft which is Jacksonville's spot?I think that Tebow along with our first and possibly another pick would definately make alot of sense for us to trade to Jacksonville,whom you know would love to have him.Odds are there will be a great edge rusher available at that spot(Ingram)who Rex would love to have.Could this whole Tebow thing have been part of a major draft day move,or am I just wishfully thinking here.So what If they already sold countless Tebow Jerseys,I like the guy but dont think he is right for this team.

[GriffDog]

it wouldnt be that crazy -

[Jetfan76]

Most fans I have mentioned this to are praying to Tebow that it does happen.

[Demosthenes9]

Think it's absolutely crazy. Seriously doubt that Jax would trade for Tebow at this point.

[Jetfan76]

Think it's absolutely crazy. Seriously doubt that Jax would trade for Tebow at this point.

Who else do they really have at QB?I know its early but alot of experts are seeing Gabbart as a bust from a mile away and Chad Henne well hes Chad Henne,not exactly gonna fill up seats.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

I don't see it. Maybe I guess. The Jaguars would have to have decided that Blaine Gabbert is a bust after one season if they do make a move for Tebow. Gabbert won't have a prayer of holding the job against Tebow in Tebowland.

[Catt_County]

Who else do they really have at QB?I know its early but alot of experts are seeing Gabbart as a bust from a mile away and Chad Henne well hes Chad Henne,not exactly gonna fill up seats.

Chad Henne may not be a very good QB but he is a QB not a fullback who throws.

Going from 2 crappy QBs to 3 isn't going to help Jax sell that many more tix or anything else even in the Land of the Great Tim. They need to win games. Sorry, Jests fans, but Tebow -- and his congregation of crackpot stalkers -- is your cross to bear. Enjoy!

[Bannon]

Jacksonville doesn't want Tebow. Their GM dug in a long time ago, wasted a #10 pick on Plain Garbage, and is now professionally invested in seeing his hand-picked quarterback succeed.

Tebow would rather be here because the coaches want him, have plans for him, and he likes the attitude of the organization.

[Tonetime320]

Oh my Tebow I hope so.

[catsigater]

Don't think the Jets went after Tebow with this in mind, but don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility, either.

But as has been mentioned, the "football people" in Jax aren't big on Tebow. They may have an opportunity to rethink that when Gabbert crashes and burns, though.

[Bannon]

But as has been mentioned, the "football people" in Jax aren't big on Tebow. They may have an opportunity to rethink that when Gabbert crashes and burns, though.

"When?" They can go ahead and start rethinking.

[tzinc]

Sanchez is more likely to be traded then Tebow.

This is ludicrous.

You don't trade away 2 draft picks to then trade someone.

You don't plan out an offense and describe how you will use that player if you plan to trade him.

This is the absolute last thing that will happen.

Tanny and Ryan aren't going to stake their jobs on Sanchez Tebow is their back up plan should Sanchez start losing games.

[jerseyjay14]

id much rather trade sanchez.

jets also want tebow for the added media attention and sales. no way they move him.

and if we move up, id rather have richardson then a pass rusher.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Sanchez is more likely to be traded then Tebow.

This is ludicrous.

You don't trade away 2 draft picks to then trade someone.

You don't plan out an offense and describe how you will use that player if you plan to trade him.

This is the absolute last thing that will happen.

Tanny and Ryan aren't going to stake their jobs on Sanchez Tebow is their back up plan should Sanchez start losing games.
The Jets traded a 4th and a swap of a 6th for a 7th for Teblow. Do you know what they gave up to get Sanchez? Do you know what the Broncos gave up to get Tebow? You make no sense.

[jet setter]

Niether are going anywhere this year

[Bill Belichdouche]

i would never doubt tanny again

he would be considered a walking god in my book

[catsigater]

"When?" They can go ahead and start rethinking.
Prolly right. I was trying to be generous toward Gabbert. I watched a lot of Big 12 football when I lived in KC, and never thought the kid was all that great.

But then, I think Tebow can be a starting NFL QB, so not sure how much weight my opinion should carry. :)

[Don]

Not a chance in the world.

[red75bronco]

Jacksonville doesn't want Tebow. Their GM dug in a long time ago, wasted a #10 pick on Plain Garbage, and is now professionally invested in seeing his hand-picked quarterback succeed.

Tebow would rather be here because the coaches want him, have plans for him, and he likes the attitude of the organization.

Tebow would rather be here because it is the media capitol of the world.

[Bannon]

Tebow would rather be here because it is the media capitol of the world.

That won't help if the football side doesn't work. I think he believes he can be successful on the field here. Otherwise, it's just a larger stage to fail on.

So I guess, disagree.

[Catt_County]

Don't think the Jets went after Tebow with this in mind, but don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility, either.

But as has been mentioned, the "football people" in Jax aren't big on Tebow. They may have an opportunity to rethink that when Gabbert crashes and burns, though.

They already have. That's why they signed Henne.

[Catt_County]

That won't help if the football side doesn't work. I think he believes he can be successful on the field here. Otherwise, it's just a larger stage to fail on.

So I guess, disagree.

Mark Sanchez is an easier target than Blaine Gabbert. A fourth year veteran QB who sucks is a lot easier to dislodge from the starting job than a 2nd year top ten draft pick QB who sucks. There are a lot more people who will think the 2nd year QB still has "upside" than will think that about the fourth year vet.

[xxedge72x]

If this happens then Tebow will have had a better Jets career than Drew Stanton.

[catsigater]

They already have. That's why they signed Henne.
Must give Jaguar fans a ton of confidence knowing Chad Henne's their "Plan B."

[Jon Bon Bruno]

Must say I'm quite excited to see if Mark can get back on improving, and also what Sparano comes up with Tebow in the mix... so, just for my own amusement - I'd be pretty happy to see how Circus Jets turns out this season.

[Don]

I'm not even sure this can happen, he turned down a trade to Jacksonville to come to the Jets. Even Tannenshit wouldn't brave the absolute shit storm the media would create if he now traded him to them.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

I'm not even sure this can happen, he turned down a trade to Jacksonville to come to the Jets. Even Tannenshit wouldn't brave the absolute shit storm the media would create if he now traded him to them.

He didn't turn down a trade anywhere.

[VanderbiltJets]

If we ended up with more draft value than when we started, this move would be genius.

[Don]

He didn't turn down a trade anywhere.

Use whatever words you want. Elway said he would trade him to Jacksonville or the Jets and he said he wanted the Jets.

Of course these puts doubt on that....or not.

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[LongTimeJetsFan]

Use whatever words you want. Elway said he would trade him to Jacksonville or the Jets and he said he wanted the Jets.

Of course these puts doubt on that....or not.

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They asked Tebow what his preference was. He never said he wouldn't go somewhere. He had no say anyway, the Broncos asked his preference as a favor to him.

[SKIBA-JONES]

Great thought, but i think its a bit unrealistic.

[Don]

They asked Tebow what his preference was. He never said he wouldn't go somewhere. He had no say anyway, the Broncos asked his preference as a favor to him.

That's why I said use whatever words you want. He had a chance to go home and he preferred to go to the Jets. Elway says Jacksonville offered more. To me that is turning it down.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

That's why I said use whatever words you want. He had a chance to go home and he preferred to go to the Jets. Elway says Jacksonville offered more. To me that is turning it down.

I'm sorry, there's a clear distinction between turning something down and choosing one option over another. If someone offers you the choice between an apple and a banana and you go apple, it doesn't mean you turned down the banana.

[Don]

I'm sorry, there's a clear distinction between turning something down and choosing one option over another. If someone offers you the choice between an apple and a banana and you go apple, it doesn't mean you turned down the banana.

Sure it does..there is a clear distinction between refusing one over the other and turning down one over the other. I never said he refused it, I said he turned it down and since that was a chance to return to his hometown I think it was worded exactly as it should have been.

[catsigater]

That's why I said use whatever words you want. He had a chance to go home and he preferred to go to the Jets. Elway says Jacksonville offered more. To me that is turning it down.
Saying, "I prefer 'X' over 'Y'," is not the same thing as "turning down 'Y'."

If Elway had chosen to trade him to Jacksonville, then he'd be a Jaguar. To Elway's credit he apparently considered Tebow's preference, but Tebow never had the power to turn down Jacksonville, unless he was willing to refuse to play in the NFL and there is no account whatsoever that was the case.

[catsigater]

Sure it does..there is a clear distinction between refusing one over the other and turning down one over the other. I never said he refused it, I said he turned it down and since that was a chance to return to his hometown I think it was worded exactly as it should have been.

That distinction is only in your own mind. The common and widespread understanding of "turn something down" is:

turn something down

1. to bend or fold something down.

2. to decrease the volume of something.

3. to reject something; to deny someone's request.

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"To turn down" is exactly synonymous with refusing or rejecting and not equivalent to "preferring not" to do something.

[Don]

That distinction is only in your own mind. The common and widespread understanding of "turn something down" is:

turn something down

1. to bend or fold something down.

2. to decrease the volume of something.

3. to reject something; to deny someone's request.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

"To turn down" is exactly synonymous with refusing or rejecting and not equivalent to "preferring not" to do something.

Yeah..right..he rejected the opportunity to go home. Let me give you another example..if two girls ask you to the dance and you say yes to one and no to the other ask the one you said no to whether you turned her down or not. That (according to Elway) was exactly the choice he had..in fact ask the Jacksonville owner if he turned them down or not.

[#1 Jets Fan]

Tebow would rather be here because it is the media capitol of the world.Not saying they will trade Tebow during the draft but he doesn't get a say so if they do or not.

[catsigater]

Yeah..right..he rejected the opportunity to go home. Let me give you another example..if two girls ask you to the dance and you say yes to one and no to the other ask the one you said no to whether you turned her down or not. That (according to Elway) was exactly the choice he had..in fact ask the Jacksonville owner if he turned them down or not.
Nope, that wasn't the choice.

Your example is erroneous because the Jets and Jaguars didn't ask Tebow. They informed the Broncos of their interest, and Elway graciously allowed Tebow some say.

So the scenario would be, "If two guys came and asked someone's father if they could take their daughter to the dance, and the father then asked the daughter what her preference was, all the while everyone knowing the father had the final say as to who she would go with," then the girl hasn't "turned anyone down," because she didn't have the power to do so.

She merely was allowed to express her preference. It's the father who "turned someone down," just as it was Elway who turned down the Jaguars.

If Elway had told Tebow he was a Jaguar, he'd be a Jaguar, regardless of what his preference was.

Allowing someone to express their preference isn't the same as giving them veto power, unless you've already told them that whatever their preference is will be your decision.

No one's stated Elway ceded his authority to Tebow on this.

[Demosthenes9]

Nope, that wasn't the choice.

Your example is erroneous because the Jets and Jaguars didn't ask Tebow. They informed the Broncos of their interest, and Elway graciously allowed Tebow some say.

So the scenario would be, "If two guys came and asked someone's father if they could take their daughter to the dance, and the father then asked the daughter what her preference was, all the while everyone knowing the father had the final say as to who she would go with," then the girl hasn't "turned anyone down," because she didn't have the power to do so.

She merely was allowed to express her preference. It's the father who "turned someone down," just as it was Elway who turned down the Jaguars.

If Elway had told Tebow he was a Jaguar, he'd be a Jaguar, regardless of what his preference was.

Allowing someone to express their preference isn't the same as giving them veto power, unless you've already told them that whatever their preference is will be your decision.

No one's stated Elway ceded his authority to Tebow on this.


Kind of yes and kind of no. When you have two options and you pick one of them, you are choosing that one over the other, and you are indeed turning down the second in favor of the first.

If I am given the choice of chocolate or vanilla ice cream and I choose chocolate, then yes, I have turned down vanilla in this case, otherwise, I would have chosen it instead.

That said, this is not to say that I would always turn down vanilla ice cream, especially if it's the only thing offered to me.

[Jerseyboyisback]

This would be amazing!! They sold tickets, jerseys and what not and now get rid of him!!! This would be the best story of the decade!!

[catsigater]

Kind of yes and kind of no. When you have two options and you pick one of them, you are choosing that one over the other, and you are indeed turning down the second in favor of the first.

If I am given the choice of chocolate or vanilla ice cream and I choose chocolate, then yes, I have turned down vanilla in this case, otherwise, I would have chosen it instead.

That said, this is not to say that I would always turn down vanilla ice cream, especially if it's the only thing offered to me.
Being allowed to express your preference isn't the same as being given a choice.

For instance, parents may allow their kid to express a preference, and tell them they will take it into consideration, but that doesn't mean the kids are making the decision.

If we later learn that Elway told Tebow he'd do whatever Tebow wanted, then you can say he clearly turned them down. Otherwise Tebow was in the position of being allowed to voice his preference, but since it was the Broncos management that made the decision, Tebow didn't have the opportunity to turn anyone down.

[Demosthenes9]

Being allowed to express your preference isn't the same as being given a choice.

For instance, parents may allow their kid to express a preference, and tell them they will take it into consideration, but that doesn't mean the kids are making the decision.

If we later learn that Elway told Tebow he'd do whatever Tebow wanted, then you can say he clearly turned them down. Otherwise Tebow was in the position of being allowed to voice his preference, but since it was the Broncos management that made the decision, Tebow didn't have the opportunity to turn anyone down.


I disagree. Whether your thoughts are taken into account and acted upon, you still made a choice. You chose one option over the other.

[GoldenShowers]

And his choice was 1) 2nd string and wildcat, with a bit of Hback and RB, on a team that hasn't had a losing record in five seasons or 2) 3rd string, special teams, no special packages, on a team that is god awful.

[CowboysFan]

And his choice was 1) 2nd string and wildcat, with a bit of Hback and RB, on a team that hasn't had a losing record in five seasons or 2) 3rd string, special teams, no special packages, on a team that is god awful.

I agree.

However the reason he would have been third string in Jacksonville is because the GM Smith is so heavily invested in Gabbert but let's get real. Tebow could put on a blind fold and run the ball 45 straight times up the middle and produce more than Gabbert .

[rohirrim665]

i would never doubt tanny again

he would be considered a walking god in my book

I'd be impressed...

[awells05]

It would be a great move, but in all honesty I just dont see it.

[Barcs]

If trading Tebow can land us Kalil at #7, I will more than support it, although I highly doubt that will happen. I think we'll stick with pass rusher and get OL in round 2.

[Big Blocker]

I wonder about this trade idea.

The one thing I think that might make it more likely than otherwise is you have to wonder whether the FO was surprised by the mostly negative reaction to their getting Tebow. They could salvage that by trading him.

[Demosthenes9]

I wonder about this trade idea.

The one thing I think that might make it more likely than otherwise is you have to wonder whether the FO was surprised by the mostly negative reaction to their getting Tebow. They could salvage that by trading him.

Where is this "mostly negative reaction" ? From what I can tell, that's mainly just a few very vocal people here on the boards.

[Big Blocker]

Where is this "mostly negative reaction" ? From what I can tell, that's mainly just a few very vocal people here on the boards.

I'm guessing you don't get out much.

I'm very good at that kind of guess.

[catfish]

I'm guessing you don't get out much.

I'm very good at that kind of guess.

didn't the survey Quinnipiac University took show that New Yorker were overall for the Tebow move, like 15% againstm 43% for, the rest undecided/don't care? Same poll showed New Yorkers overwhelmingly prefer Sanchez as the starter

[Barcs]

Where is this "mostly negative reaction" ? From what I can tell, that's mainly just a few very vocal people here on the boards.

Not to mention the Jets getting bashed all over the media for the move. Trust me, though, I haven't met a single Jet fan that wasn't angry at the trade when it first happened. Most have realized by now it will make us better, but almost everyone was angry at first, including me.

[Big Blocker]

Not to mention the Jets getting bashed all over the media for the move. Trust me, though, I haven't met a single Jet fan that wasn't angry at the trade when it first happened. Most have realized by now it will make us better, but almost everyone was angry at first, including me.

I personally know Jet fans who are so opposed to the trade they don't even want to pay attention to the off season moves, and have given up on the coming year.

I don't know on what you base the notion it will make the Jets better.

[Bannon]

Not to mention the Jets getting bashed all over the media for the move. Trust me, though, I haven't met a single Jet fan that wasn't angry at the trade when it first happened. Most have realized by now it will make us better, but almost everyone was angry at first, including me.

I think that probably has more to do with drama queen emotion than football. At first, nobody wants to be made fun of, or the subject or ridicule or unwanted attention.

But when it's 4th and goal on the 2, all the sudden that kind of stuff goes away. Nobody on the defense is chuckling then. And the fans love a guy that plays with all his heart.

[Big Blocker]

I think that probably has more to do with drama queen emotion than football. At first, nobody wants to be made fun of, or the subject or ridicule or unwanted attention.

But when it's 4th and goal on the 2, all the sudden that kind of stuff goes away. Nobody on the defense is chuckling then. And the fans love a guy that plays with all his heart.

Even better is when they play the game at a high level.

[Bannon]

Even better is when they play the game at a high level.

And even better when the team wins. It's the most potent potion of all.

[Demosthenes9]

Even better is when they play the game at a high level.

I do believe the kid took his team to the playoffs and actually won a game there. That's more than most NFL QBs did last year.

Yeah, sit and stew on this one for a bit. Tim Tebow had more playoff victories last year than Big Ben, Mike Vick, Matt Sanchez, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Matthew Stafford and Aaron Rodgers, just to name a few.

[BrowningNagle]

I do believe the kid took his team to the playoffs and actually won a game there. That's more than most NFL QBs did last year.

Yeah, sit and stew on this one for a bit. Tim Tebow had more playoff victories last year than Big Ben, Mike Vick, Matt Sanchez, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Matthew Stafford and Aaron Rodgers, just to name a few.

Really dude?

That's a hell of a way to stretch one playoff victory.

Might as well say this:

Tim Tebow had more playoff wins in 2011/2012 than:
Joe Montana, Joe Namath, John Elway, Brett Favre etc....

or you could say this:
Tim Tebow has more 35 point playoff losses in 2011/2012 than.....

[displacedfan]

I do believe the kid took his team to the playoffs and actually won a game there. That's more than most NFL QBs did last year.

Yeah, sit and stew on this one for a bit. Tim Tebow had more playoff victories last year than Big Ben, Mike Vick, Matt Sanchez, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Matthew Stafford and Aaron Rodgers, just to name a few.

Over the last 3 years Sanchez has more or the same amount playoff victories than Brady, Eli, Rodgers, Stafford, Ryan. Flacco has more or the same amount also. Does that mean Sanchez and Flacco are better than Eli and Brady of course not.

[Demosthenes9]

Really dude?

That's a hell of a way to stretch one playoff victory.

Might as well say this:

Tim Tebow had more playoff wins in 2012 than:
Joe Montana, Joe Namath, John Elway, Brett Farve etc....

or you could say this:
Tim Tebow has more 35 point playoff losses in 2012 than.....


Last I checked, Elway, Montana, Namath and Favre weren't starting QBs for NFL teams last year, were they ? All the QBs that I listed were.

[Demosthenes9]

Over the last 3 years Sanchez has more or the same amount playoff victories than Brady, Eli, Rodgers, Stafford, Ryan. Flacco has more or the same amount also. Does that mean Sanchez and Flacco are better than Eli and Brady of course not.

Go back and look at the post I was responding to. I wasn't claiming that Tebow was "better" than those other QBs. I was making the point that he played "on a high level" and won a playoff game.

[BrowningNagle]

Last I checked, Elway, Montana, Namath and Favre weren't starting QBs for NFL teams last year, were they ? All the QBs that I listed were.

Really? Were they?

Sorry I havent watched a football game in 25 years I was just merely pointing out the ridiculous analogy you made.

[Barcs]

I personally know Jet fans who are so opposed to the trade they don't even want to pay attention to the off season moves, and have given up on the coming year.

I don't know on what you base the notion it will make the Jets better.

Yes, I've met a few that were ready to quit being a Jets fan over the move.

He's a better backup QB than we had, plus we'll see him and Mark on the field at the same time for many plays and it will make the defense adjust and have to prepare for many possibilities. There's no way the move makes us worse. It'll be much better than the circus we saw last year with Schotty running the same plays over and over despite the fact that they don't work. It'll be much more diverse. We'll see Tebow at HB, FB, RB and possibly even TE this year. I don't see this extra option in our offense as detrimental at all. It only makes us worse when you look at the media, but in terms of actual football you gotta be crazy to say it doesn't make us better, even if only slightly. I'm not the biggest wildcat fan, but I see what they're trying to do. Confuse the defense. Our offense lacked that ability completely last year.

[Demosthenes9]

Really? Were they?

Sorry I havent watched a football game in 25 years I was just merely pointing out the ridiculous analogy you made.

That you apparently don't understand the point doesn't make the analogy ridiculous.

Just an FYI for ya.

[Don]

I personally know Jet fans who are so opposed to the trade they don't even want to pay attention to the off season moves, and have given up on the coming year.

I don't know on what you base the notion it will make the Jets better.

What reason can they possibly use to be so opposed to a backup qb? Were they like that when the Jets signed Brunell too? One more example of people trying to use this trade as a coverup to some other agenda they may carry with them.

[Big Blocker]

I do believe the kid took his team to the playoffs and actually won a game there. That's more than most NFL QBs did last year.

Yeah, sit and stew on this one for a bit. Tim Tebow had more playoff victories last year than Big Ben, Mike Vick, Matt Sanchez, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Matthew Stafford and Aaron Rodgers, just to name a few.

Football is a team sport.

Learn the game if you want to be taken seriously.

[BrowningNagle]

That you apparently don't understand the point doesn't make the analogy ridiculous.

Just an FYI for ya.

You should work in marketing.

[Big Blocker]

What reason can they possibly use to be so opposed to a backup qb? Were they like that when the Jets signed Brunell too? One more example of people trying to use this trade as a coverup to some other agenda they may carry with them.

You choose to ignore the point, but it is still there.

Bringing in Tebow does not help the Jets assess Sanchez's viability as the Jet Qb going forward. It complicates the assessment, since the O not only has to learn a new offense with Sparano, they have to bring in plays for Tebow.

If Tebow were a true backup, it would be different. They'd be using essentially the same O for Sanchez and his backup.

Instead they will be learning new plays for Tebow. That does not help Sanchez.

Add in that Sparano is a first time OC.

It's quite straightforward, actually. The criticism of the move, i mean.

[Don]

You choose to ignore the point, but it is still there.

Bringing in Tebow does not help the Jets assess Sanchez's viability as the Jet Qb going forward. It complicates the assessment, since the O not only has to learn a new offense with Sparano, they have to bring in plays for Tebow.

If Tebow were a true backup, it would be different. They'd be using essentially the same O for Sanchez and his backup.

Instead they will be learning new plays for Tebow. That does not help Sanchez.

Add in that Sparano is a first time OC.

It's quite straightforward, actually. The criticism of the move, i mean.

That's no point at all. Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point. Sanchez is a big boy (I know he is from southern California, but still). If this scares him he doesn't belong in NY to begin with. He already failed miserably last year. A number of his teammates said he is lazy, let him use this to motivate him.

[Demosthenes9]

Football is a team sport.

Learn the game if you want to be taken seriously.

Kind of figured that one out 30+ years ago, back when I played the game :)


You seriously don't give Tebow any credit for that win over the Steelers ??

[BrowningNagle]

That's no point at all. Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point. Sanchez is a big boy (I know he is from southern California, but still). If this scares him he doesn't belong in NY to begin with. He already failed miserably last year. A number of his teammates said he is lazy, let him use this to motivate him.

Good post - Exactly how I feel.

Bringing in Tim Tebow can have zero effect on Mark Sanchez if Mark Sanchez or on a lesser level Rex Ryan make it so.

It would be like the equivalent of bringing in Brad Smith or Ronnie Brown or something... Sure they put in special plays for them but does that really hurt the starting QB?

I think I've been here long enough to warrant the fact that I'm not a Teblower, but I also don't feel bad for Mark Sanchez at all - why should I? He's still the starting QB of the NYJ and he's got a little bit of competition that he could essentially blow out of the water starting week 1. And I hope he does.

If Sanchez plays great than they will likely not want to take the ball out of his hands and Tebow will see the field less and less. The fans (teboys or not) don't run the team Rex Ryan does and this will be a no-brainer.

Tebow is a backup QB/RB.. and he's pretty good at it - I don't hate the addition, just his fanboys.

[packersfan]

That's no point at all. Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point. Sanchez is a big boy (I know he is from southern California, but still). If this scares him he doesn't belong in NY to begin with. He already failed miserably last year. A number of his teammates said he is lazy, let him use this to motivate him.
Exactly! How come more Jets fans can't see this?

[packersfan]

You choose to ignore the point, but it is still there.

Bringing in Tebow does not help the Jets assess Sanchez's viability as the Jet Qb going forward. It complicates the assessment, since the O not only has to learn a new offense with Sparano, they have to bring in plays for Tebow.

If Tebow were a true backup, it would be different. They'd be using essentially the same O for Sanchez and his backup.

Instead they will be learning new plays for Tebow. That does not help Sanchez.

Add in that Sparano is a first time OC.

It's quite straightforward, actually. The criticism of the move, i mean.
I understand your point of view, but it sure as hell helps them assess him as a leader.

[packersfan]

Good post - Exactly how I feel.

Bringing in Tim Tebow can have zero effect on Mark Sanchez if Mark Sanchez or on a lesser level Rex Ryan make it so.

It would be like the equivalent of bringing in Brad Smith or Ronnie Brown or something... Sure they put in special plays for them but does that really hurt the starting QB?

I think I've been here long enough to warrant the fact that I'm not a Teblower, but I also don't feel bad for Mark Sanchez at all - why should I? He's still the starting QB of the NYJ and he's got a little bit of competition that he could essentially blow out of the water starting week 1. And I hope he does.

If Sanchez plays great than they will likely not want to take the ball out of his hands and Tebow will see the field less and less. The fans (teboys or not) don't run the team Rex Ryan does and this will be a no-brainer.

Tebow is a backup QB/RB.. and he's pretty good at it - I don't hate the addition, just his fanboys.
Don't hate all his fanboys. We aren't all bandwagon fans. I don't give a shit if Tebow himself gave me season tickets to the Jets screw that I have been a Packers fan my whole life and nothing can change that.

[Big Blocker]

That's no point at all. Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point. Sanchez is a big boy (I know he is from southern California, but still). If this scares him he doesn't belong in NY to begin with. He already failed miserably last year. A number of his teammates said he is lazy, let him use this to motivate him.

You don't like the point, but it certainly is a point.

You implicitly feel the team has unlimited amounts of time, energy and attention to bring in a new O and one inherently more complicated than if it did not include Tebow.

That is ridiculous and not based on the real world.

I also am very much NOT a Sanchez Fan, but his problems imo had more to do with not reading defenses than with lack of effort. The "coddling" stuff had to do not with lack of effort but that the Jets were not holding Sanchez accountable for the errors on the O.

There is in any event no evidence that making Sanchez more scared is a useful and effective tactic.

You completely ignore the chain of events. Why did they extend his contract and add another guaranteed year if they were trying to scare him? THat makes no sense at all. They got Tebow for the marketing effect.

If they were primarily about scaring Sanchez, then how come in the same paragraph you claim that you also say "Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point"? That makes even less sense.

Your post is filled with illogic. No wonder you are making friends here with the Tebots.

[Big Blocker]

I understand your point of view, but it sure as hell helps them assess him as a leader.

They take Sanchez out, or put him on the sidelines as a phony wr, and give the ball to Tebow. How does that help them assess whether Sanchez should be their Qb going forward?

[Don]

You don't like the point, but it certainly is a point.

You implicitly feel the team has unlimited amounts of time, energy and attention to bring in a new O and one inherently more complicated than if it did not include Tebow.

That is ridiculous and not based on the real world.

I also am very much NOT a Sanchez Fan, but his problems imo had more to do with not reading defenses than with lack of effort. The "coddling" stuff had to do not with lack of effort but that the Jets were not holding Sanchez accountable for the errors on the O.

There is in any event no evidence that making Sanchez more scared is a useful and effective tactic.

You completely ignore the chain of events. Why did they extend his contract and add another guaranteed year if they were trying to scare him? THat makes no sense at all. They got Tebow for the marketing effect.

If they were primarily about scaring Sanchez, then how come in the same paragraph you claim that you also say "Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point"? That makes even less sense.

Your post is filled with illogic. No wonder you are making friends here with the Tebots.

Actually yours is and it starts with not realizing they are obviously bringing in an entire new offense the day they fired Schitty and hired Sparano, did you miss that?

[Don]

You don't like the point, but it certainly is a point.

You implicitly feel the team has unlimited amounts of time, energy and attention to bring in a new O and one inherently more complicated than if it did not include Tebow.

That is ridiculous and not based on the real world.

I also am very much NOT a Sanchez Fan, but his problems imo had more to do with not reading defenses than with lack of effort. The "coddling" stuff had to do not with lack of effort but that the Jets were not holding Sanchez accountable for the errors on the O.

There is in any event no evidence that making Sanchez more scared is a useful and effective tactic.

You completely ignore the chain of events. Why did they extend his contract and add another guaranteed year if they were trying to scare him? THat makes no sense at all. They got Tebow for the marketing effect.

If they were primarily about scaring Sanchez, then how come in the same paragraph you claim that you also say "Tebow is here to improve the running game, that is the only point"? That makes even less sense.

Your post is filled with illogic. No wonder you are making friends here with the Tebots.

Actually yours is and it starts with not realizing they are obviously decided to bring in an entire new offense the day they fired Schitty and hired Sparano, did you miss that?

They wern't about scaring Tebow but you seem to think they were. He is a backup..only a backup..he runs like a 240 pound FB..what are you so worried about?

[BrowningNagle]

They take Sanchez out, or put him on the sidelines as a phony wr, and give the ball to Tebow. How does that help them assess whether Sanchez should be their Qb going forward?

That's silly saying that, because that helps them assess Tim Tebow, not Mark Sanchez.
What helps them assess Mark Sanchez is how he reacts when he gets back under center. Both players will be assessed properly this is the NFL.

Was the Jets assessment of Mark Sanchez damaged by Brad Smith? Hell no, and both him and Tim Tebow were successful college QBs the Jets acquired with a 4th round pick. Smith left and it hurt the Jets a little, especially on 3rd downs, so they replaced him with a similar, maybe better player with Tim Tebow. - How is this a bad thing?

[displacedfan]

That's silly saying that, because that helps them assess Tim Tebow, not Mark Sanchez.
What helps them assess Mark Sanchez is how he reacts when he gets back under center. Both players will be assessed properly this is the NFL.

Was the Jets assessment of Mark Sanchez damaged by Brad Smith? Hell no, and both him and Tim Tebow were successful college QBs the Jets acquired with a 4th round pick. Smith left and it hurt the Jets a little, especially on 3rd downs, so they replaced him with a similar, maybe better player with Tim Tebow. - How is this a bad thing?

Well they brought in the media circus, everything will be about Tebow. No matter what happens in a game, expect the media to play up Tebow. Will the team mind this, who knows. It is slightly new to them that a backup QB gets traded and then is the talk of the media with any question you get being asked about him.

Also, Brad Smith was never the #2 QB on the depth chart. It seems strange to promote Tebow straight to #2 but then say he is going to be used in every other package.

And, Kerley ran the WC well the few times the Jets ran it. I feel like a 4th rounder could have been better used to find OL depth, S, WR, etc etc. They just signed Stanton so backup QB was not a need.

Also, it can help this football team, I am not denying not. But the sequence of events before the trade makes it very strange. Extend Sanchez aka keep him an extra year and create more cap room, sign Stanton as backup #2, trade for Tebow? Could this be a great more, sure and I really hope it does and I think it will be. But it was a very strange scenario to get Tebow and then name him #2 QB but then say he will be used all this different ways.

Also, a new offense is being established with Sparano. Hopefully they don't really mean two "separate playbooks". There is always a learning curve to a new offense for the whole offense, but what happens when the lineman, TE, WR have to learn two new playbooks? That should be a slight concern. Just because Tebow/Sanchez don't have to learn each others, it doesn't mean the rest of the team only has to learn one.

[BrowningNagle]

Well they brought in the media circus, everything will be about Tebow. No matter what happens in a game, expect the media to play up Tebow. Will the team mind this, who knows. It is slightly new to them that a backup QB gets traded and then is the talk of the media with any question you get being asked about him.

Also, Brad Smith was never the #2 QB on the depth chart. It seems strange to promote Tebow straight to #2 but then say he is going to be used in every other package.

And, Kerley ran the WC well the few times the Jets ran it. I feel like a 4th rounder could have been better used to find OL depth, S, WR, etc etc. They just signed Stanton so backup QB was not a need.

Also, it can help this football team, I am not denying not. But the sequence of events before the trade makes it very strange. Extend Sanchez aka keep him an extra year and create more cap room, sign Stanton as backup #2, trade for Tebow? Could this be a great more, sure and I really hope it does and I think it will be. But it was a very strange scenario to get Tebow and then name him #2 QB but then say he will be used all this different ways.

Also, a new offense is being established with Sparano. Hopefully they don't really mean two "separate playbooks". There is always a learning curve to a new offense for the whole offense, but what happens when the lineman, TE, WR have to learn two new playbooks? That should be a slight concern. Just because Tebow/Sanchez don't have to learn each others, it doesn't mean the rest of the team only has to learn one.

This is a fair response, here are my feelings.

The media has nothing to do with what the Jets play on the field looks like. They can freak out about Tebow all they want but it won't make a damn difference at all unless the Jets make it do so..

Brad Smith was never no 2. on the depth chart but he got more snaps than the no 2. and his competition was better. Does it really matter what the "depth chart" says? Personally I think Brad Smith is a better NFL player/ backup QB than Drew Stanton./Mcelroy, but I think the same about Tebow.

Make no mistake, the loss of Brad Smith made a difference on the Jets last year. Maybe he didn't have great success in Buffalo, but his departure hurt the Jets last season. They tried to make up for it with Kerley, had limited success but Kerley didn't bring the Jets what Brad Smith brought and can't what Tebow will. He's got his role as a WR.

The playbook thing I think is a little overrated as well. The Jets were going to run Wildcat formations / plays this fall no matter what based on Sparano's past. If they didn't bring in Tebow the offense would still have had to learn "separate" plays / formations, etc. So if they were going to have to do it anyway, why not bring in a guy who can do it better than what they had on the current roster?

[displacedfan]

This is a fair response, here are my feelings.

The media has nothing to do with what the Jets play on the field looks like. They can freak out about Tebow all they want but it won't make a damn difference at all unless the Jets make it do so..

Brad Smith was never no 2. on the depth chart but he got more snaps than the no 2. and his competition was better. Does it really matter what the "depth chart" says? Personally I think Brad Smith is a better NFL player/ backup QB than Drew Stanton./Mcelroy, but I think the same about Tebow.

Make no mistake, the loss of Brad Smith made a difference on the Jets last year. Maybe he didn't have great success in Buffalo, but his departure hurt the Jets last season. They tried to make up for it with Kerley, had limited success but Kerley didn't bring the Jets what Brad Smith brought and can't what Tebow will. He's got his role as a WR.

The playbook thing I think is a little overrated as well. The Jets were going to run Wildcat formations / plays this fall no matter what based on Sparano's past. If they didn't bring in Tebow the offense would still have had to learn "separate" plays / formations, etc. So if they were going to have to do it anyway, why not bring in a guy who can do it better than what they had on the current roster?

Fair enough, all reasonable. I think I am more on the pessimistic side and you are more on the optimistic side of the deal.

True the media doesn't affect the play, but they can make things worse than it seems. We saw what they did with the lockerroom and anonymous quotes last year. Watch Sanchez have one bad game and all the media will say is "what do you think about Tebow starting, what do you think about so and so". The media will push for Tebow to be the starter at the first Sanchez slipup. Everyone says Sanchez needs competition, but who did Flacco, Ryan, Eli have as "competition" when they were in their first 3 years?


I don't think Smith is a better backup QB than Stanton or McElroy. Backup QB's are most successful if they can come in when the QB is injured and continue the same offense. Smith/Tebow had to have the offense slowly built around them if they were to fill in for an extended amount of time. They are better football players, but not backup quarterbacks in my eyes, if that makes any sense.

And yes Brad Smith leaving the Jets hurt, but I would venture to say that they had bigger problems/holes than lack of a WC QB. I would put RT, O line depth, S, OLB, #2 WR above WC QB. It seemed like we addressed the 5th most important need. Now we can hit the others in the draft, but it just seemed strange to me to use the 4th on Tebow. I feel like a 4th and 6th for a S,OLB,OL and 7th could have been made and it would have better helped the team.

[BrowningNagle]

Fair enough, all reasonable. I think I am more on the pessimistic side and you are more on the optimistic side of the deal.

True the media doesn't affect the play, but they can make things worse than it seems. We saw what they did with the lockerroom and anonymous quotes last year. Watch Sanchez have one bad game and all the media will say is "what do you think about Tebow starting, what do you think about so and so". The media will push for Tebow to be the starter at the first Sanchez slipup. Everyone says Sanchez needs competition, but who did Flacco, Ryan, Eli have as "competition" when they were in their first 3 years?


I don't think Smith is a better backup QB than Stanton or McElroy. Backup QB's are most successful if they can come in when the QB is injured and continue the same offense. Smith/Tebow had to have the offense slowly built around them if they were to fill in for an extended amount of time. They are better football players, but not backup quarterbacks in my eyes, if that makes any sense.

And yes Brad Smith leaving the Jets hurt, but I would venture to say that they had bigger problems/holes than lack of a WC QB. I would put RT, O line depth, S, OLB, #2 WR above WC QB. It seemed like we addressed the 5th most important need. Now we can hit the others in the draft, but it just seemed strange to me to use the 4th on Tebow. I feel like a 4th and 6th for a S,OLB,OL and 7th could have been made and it would have better helped the team.

I personally think Smith/Tebow are better than Stanton but that's just me. Its possible the Jets didn't even think so and wanted to keep Stanton as 2 and Tebow as WC QB, (similar to the way things were with Smith) but Stanton conceded the no 2. QB position by default when he bitched out asking for a trade.

I will say alot of what you mention as positions of need I agree with. We can differ on how badly they needed a WC QB, or whether Tim Tebow was worth a 4th rounder ( which I think is a more valid argument than others use against the trade) I happen to think it was worth a 4th round pick.

I will say that I will be really pissed though if the Jets neglect some of those other needs you mention or sacrifice them by trading up thursday.

[displacedfan]

I personally think Smith/Tebow are better than Stanton but that's just me. Its possible the Jets didn't even think so and wanted to keep Stanton as 2 and Tebow as WC QB, (similar to the way things were with Smith) but Stanton conceded the no 2. QB position by default when he bitched out asking for a trade.

I will say alot of what you mention as positions of need I agree with. We can differ on how badly they needed a WC QB, or whether Tim Tebow was worth a 4th rounder ( which I think is a more valid argument than others use against the trade) I happen to think it was worth a 4th round pick.

I will say that I will be really pissed though if the Jets neglect some of those other needs you mention or sacrifice them by trading up thursday.

Like I said, I think Smith/Tebow are better football players than Stanton, but Stanton is a better backup QB. It makes sense in my head, but when I type it out it doesn't make sense haha.

Oh man if they trade up in the first, I might throw my remote at the TV. If they trade up in the 3rd/4th or lower, I could live with that depending on who they choose.

[Big Blocker]

That's silly saying that, because that helps them assess Tim Tebow, not Mark Sanchez.
What helps them assess Mark Sanchez is how he reacts when he gets back under center. Both players will be assessed properly this is the NFL.

Was the Jets assessment of Mark Sanchez damaged by Brad Smith? Hell no, and both him and Tim Tebow were successful college QBs the Jets acquired with a 4th round pick. Smith left and it hurt the Jets a little, especially on 3rd downs, so they replaced him with a similar, maybe better player with Tim Tebow. - How is this a bad thing?

I assume you are agreeing with me, since my point was it is silly to say that bringing in Tebow allows the Jets to better assess Sanchez.

On the other hand, helping them assess how Sanchez reacts when he goes back in is, let's face it, not a significant metric for understanding what makes a qualiity starting Qb in the NFL. If it were, more teams would use that kind of metric. I can't think of any right now that do.

[Big Blocker]

The playbook thing I think is a little overrated as well. The Jets were going to run Wildcat formations / plays this fall no matter what based on Sparano's past. If they didn't bring in Tebow the offense would still have had to learn "separate" plays / formations, etc. So if they were going to have to do it anyway, why not bring in a guy who can do it better than what they had on the current roster?

"little overrated" All DPF said is that one should not ignore the need to have ALL the players on O learn a new playbook.

Now, with a brand new OC, someone who has never been an OC before, we start out with a roster choice that only make sense with a more complicated playbook.

So, not only a new playbook, but a more complicated one.

Ftr I don't think it is impossible for this team to handle it. I just think it is baseless optimism to act like it is no issue whatsoever. So how important is it before we "overrate" it?

Actually, there is no point in answering that right now. We shall see.

[VanderbiltJets]

Let's just take advantage of the fact that Tebow's too nice to say no and ship him off to Jacksonville.