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Noam
04-10-2012, 06:12 PM
I am not a fan of either QB but I am usually a fan of PFF articles and I thought some might find this article interesting.

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New York Jets: Sanchize or Tebow-Time?
March 22nd, 2012 | Author: Sam Monson

The Jets’ 2011 season ran right off the rails and Mark Sanchez was in the wheelhouse pushing the buttons.

They flirted with the acquisition of Peyton Manning this offseason and, when that failed, re-worked Sanchez’ contract to make it look like a “financial apology.” In reality, it made it far easier for them to say goodbye to him down the road. Now they have blown a quiet Wednesday out of the water with a trade for Tim Tebow, the enigmatic quarterback deemed surplus to the requirements by the Broncos after the signing of Manning.

Love them or hate them, you can’t deny that Rex Ryan’s Jets are always interesting.



The Tebow Breakdown

At this point, Tebow is something of an enigma. Anybody that claims he is abysmal as a quarterback really hasn’t been watching him play. It isn’t true to say that he has been good, or even average at the position so far in his career, though. He remains what he has been since the outset–an intriguing talent, but in need of significant help to be viable at this level.

Last season, purely as a passer, Tebow was our fourth-worst graded quarterback, better than only Blaine Gabbert, John Skelton and Sanchez. His completion percentage was behind all of these players, and only a relatively low percentage of dangerous throws saved his grade from being worse. What offsets some of the negatives, though, is his ability to run the football. His +12.5 rushing grade was second only to Cam Newton for 2011 quarterbacks and no other was close to that pair in their rushing grades or rushing output. They continue to represent a new breed of athletic quarterback who can augment their passing by carrying the football themselves and making plays with their legs.

The NFL has long shunned the idea of option football as an entity that simply wasn’t feasible at this level. Yet the emergence of the Wildcat in recent years, combined with what the Broncos put on the field last year showed that it can succeed, and do so as a base offense. Denver abandoned their conventional, pro-style offense in favor of running the option with Tebow as the quarterback just to make him viable. That offense was productive enough to get them to the playoffs, albeit in a weak AFC West.

The bottom line with Tebow and Newton is that if the chains are moving, nobody really cares how they’re being moved. Newton scored 14 rushing touchdowns and gained more than 700 yards on the ground. Tebow was able to gain more than 600 on the ground as part of the Broncos’ option-based rushing offense. His performance as a runner moved Tebow up PFF’s rankings, away from the foot of the table and towards the likes of Joe Flacco. As a passer, Tebow isn’t close to that level, but when you look at the total package; he brings more to the table than his throwing ability, which is just as well.

The question any team now has to ask is whether they can improve his ability to pass the ball to the point where he becomes a legitimate NFL starter in a conventional offense, because rarely is a coaching staff prepared to alter their entire offense to suit just one player. In the playoffs, Tebow showed that he could succeed when put in the most optimal situation a QB will ever face. With the Steelers playing cover-zero at times–stacking the box with everybody they had–Tebow was able to find receivers in single-man coverage, and ultimately won the game for the Broncos.

That was the first (and likely the last) time he will ever face that kind of suicidal game plan. A far more telling performance came the next week against the Patriots. New England simply sat back in relaxed coverages and dared Tebow to become an NFL-caliber thrower for the day to beat them. He could not and the game was a blowout. Yes, Tebow was able to win a playoff game, something people like to claim is an achievement in and of itself. That he did it in a manner that you would expect any NFL quarterback to be able to do, means very little in these circumstances.


The Burden of Sanchez

Since trading up to make Mark Sanchez the fifth overall pick in the 2009 draft, the Jets have been unable to get him to iron out his inconsistencies and develop him into the franchise quarterback they believed he was. His regression was so bad last year that they are clearly now losing faith and preparing for a life without him. Sanchez was the second-worst graded quarterback in the league last season (-27.9), beating only the catastrophic rookie season from Gabbert, but it wasn’t all his fault. The Jets’ offensive line, once the strength of the side, took a major step back almost overnight with Wayne Hunter replacing Damien Woody at right tackle.

The Jets had the best pass-protecting line in the league in 2010, giving Sanchez a platform on which to feel comfortable in the pocket, but in 2011 they dropped all the way to 12th in terms of pressure allowed. It’s a bigger problem than those overall numbers suggest it is, though, because the bulk of the pressure came from the right side of the line.

Blind side pressure might be more dangerous to an offense, because the quarterback doesn’t get a chance to adjust what he’s doing to take account of the impending hit, but to a young passer trying to remain calm in the pocket, open side pressure may be far more damaging. From 2010 to 2011, Sanchez’ quarterback rating remained virtually identical. However, his rating under pressure dropped from an already pretty wretched 51.9 to 37.4. This was due to being so fixated on the rush that he could see developing on the open side on a regular basis. Sanchez was pressured on 165 drop-backs last year and managed only 410 passing yards on those plays as he became a deer in the headlights and unable to make plays.

Sanchez is reaching the end of his rope with the Jets, and they have given him just enough to hang himself with. Tim Tebow is one of the few quarterbacks in the league who can make Sanchez look good as a passer. He comes to the Jets as a project, not as a viable alternate to start in a conventional NFL offense, and the Jets will likely have a season at the most to see how far he can develop as a passer.


The Business Side of Football

The last point to make about Tim Tebow is that he has become more than just a football decision. If it was only about football, the Broncos wouldn’t even have entertained trade offers. They would be looking to teach Tebow behind one of the greatest passers in league history, and maybe get some use out of him in certain situations and packages as a running threat. They instead chose to get rid of him at a cut-rate price because John Elway and the rest of the Broncos brass wanted rid of the media circus and headache that Tebow brings with him.

That’s the same reason there wasn’t a larger queue of suitors looking to take a look at a former first-round pick that has undoubted talent and leadership qualities. The Broncos were limited to just a few teams sniffing around the prospect of a cheap trade. Nonetheless, they happily jumped at receiving only a fourth round pick, as well as swapping the Jets’ sixth round pick for their seventh, in exchange for removing the millstone from around their necks. Tebow now transcends football decisions and has become a question of business for teams interested in taking him on.

The Jets clearly have a major issue at quarterback, with Sanchez failing to develop the way they insisted he could. However, Tebow is in no position to take over now without some major reworking of the offense in order to make him a workable option. He also brings with him a glaring spotlight that will only intensify in the Big Apple. The Jets will clearly need to work hard at balancing the use they can get from him as a role player in their offense and the hype that surrounds his very presence.

Taking a look at a former first-round draft pick for little cost may have been a smart football decision, but the Jets have potentially created the perfect media storm around a franchise that was already swirling in storm clouds.

catsigater
04-10-2012, 08:17 PM
Don't find much, if anything, to disagree with.

KILLER Klown
04-10-2012, 10:42 PM
They don't want the quarterback to run because they get hurt, Tebow played against the Pats with broken ribs and a bruised lung. Didn't see that in the article.

Demosthenes9
04-11-2012, 12:09 AM
Don't find much, if anything, to disagree with.

One glaring misconception is this one:

Denver abandoned their conventional, pro-style offense in favor of running the option with Tebow as the quarterback just to make him viable.

The Broncos ran quite a mix on offense last year, and yes, they did run some option, but nowhere near as much as people think. A good portion of the offense was run from "traditional NFL sets" such as the I formation, or single back sets.

Demosthenes9
04-11-2012, 12:10 AM
They don't want the quarterback to run because they get hurt, Tebow played against the Pats with broken ribs and a bruised lung. Didn't see that in the article.

Could be because Tebow got injured while trying to pass from the pocket, and not from running the ball.

Bannon
04-11-2012, 08:08 AM
Could be because Tebow got injured while trying to pass from the pocket, and not from running the ball.

And also, he played the whole game. The idea that he wouldn't have been able to play the next week will go down in legend, but we'll actually never know.

All we know for sure is that the guy has never missed a snap in his entire career due to injury. (Even that concussion he got in college, he had the bye week to recover).

The pocket is one of the most dangerous places in football.

catfish
04-11-2012, 08:17 AM
And also, he played the whole game. The idea that he wouldn't have been able to play the next week will go down in legend, but we'll actually never know.

All we know for sure is that the guy has never missed a snap in his entire career due to injury. (Even that concussion he got in college, he had the bye week to recover).

The pocket is one of the most dangerous places in football.

not to beat a dead horse, but how many QB's NOT named Tebow were hurt last year? It seemed like several teams had both their first and backup guy hurt at one time or another

Bannon
04-11-2012, 08:53 AM
not to beat a dead horse, but how many QB's NOT named Tebow were hurt last year? It seemed like several teams had both their first and backup guy hurt at one time or another

They drop like flies.

I think what people are trying to get at is a quarterback can't be a workhorse running back and still be an effective passer, within a particular game. Those hits in the pile are bound to reduce passing accuracy over four quarters.

But instead they get all crossed up and start talking about injury, which is a fact of life for all players. Tebow has a way of making people argue like a girl. :smile:

catfish
04-11-2012, 08:58 AM
They drop like flies.

I think what people are trying to get at is a quarterback can't be a workhorse running back and still be an effective passer, within a particular game. Those hits in the pile are bound to reduce passing accuracy over four quarters.

But instead they get all crossed up and start talking about injury, which is a fact of life for all players. Tebow has a way of making people argue like a girl. :smile:

to answer the effective passer argument I would point them at Cam Newton. I think what people are getting confused on is the difference between cant and hasnt in recent memory. Tebow is not an effective passer right now, may never be, but that doesnt mean it cant be done.

tzinc
04-11-2012, 08:59 AM
They don't want the quarterback to run because they get hurt, Tebow played against the Pats with broken ribs and a bruised lung. Didn't see that in the article.

He didn't get hurt running vs. the Pats he got hurt when the atrocious Bronco pass blockers allowed a clean shot on him while he was in the pocket.

The offense Denver ran had some options added in and those actually worked well most of the time. With Tebow there their running game improved as the defenders being aware of Tebow helped the RB. The problem with the Denver offense was the same before and after Tebow their OC was way too predictable you could almost always tell when they were going to run the ball. Their passing was limited lack of screens, dump-offs, crossing routes, spread sets, etc. It was too predictable and did not feature much diversity like say the Florida offense Tebow played in. The other drawback is Denver has the worst receivers in the NFL. Tebow didn't have much to work with.

Demosthenes9
04-11-2012, 04:51 PM
They drop like flies.

I think what people are trying to get at is a quarterback can't be a workhorse running back and still be an effective passer, within a particular game. Those hits in the pile are bound to reduce passing accuracy over four quarters.

But instead they get all crossed up and start talking about injury, which is a fact of life for all players. Tebow has a way of making people argue like a girl. :smile:

Guess I could argue that Tebow did it for 4 years in the SEC, which has defenses that are closest to the NFL in terms of talent, speed and hard hitting.

Big Blocker
04-12-2012, 08:00 AM
The fact that Qb's can get hurt in the pocket does not dispute the fact that the risks of getting hurt go up when the Qb runs or otherwise leaves the pocket.

Bannon
04-12-2012, 08:31 AM
The fact that Qb's can get hurt in the pocket does not dispute the fact that the risks of getting hurt go up when the Qb runs or otherwise leaves the pocket.

Not just "can get hurt in the pocket." Often do get hurt in the pocket. Happens a lot.

I'm not sure it's beyond dispute that the "risks of getting hurt go up when the QB runs," if he knows what he's doing and is big like Cam and Tebow. Every player is different.

To me, it's more of a "wear and tear" problem than a risk of catastrophic injury.

I hope quarterbacks like Cam and RG3 continue to evolve the game by using their feet.

catfish
04-12-2012, 08:32 AM
The fact that Qb's can get hurt in the pocket does not dispute the fact that the risks of getting hurt go up when the Qb runs or otherwise leaves the pocket.

I don't know that I have ever read any scientific evidence that that is in fact true, IIRC Tebow himself stated the the hits he took in the pocket were way worse than the ones he took on the run. I hear a lot about how much more dangerous it is for QBs to run, but like I said haven't seen a study proving there is any truth to it

Slap
04-12-2012, 08:44 AM
Sound article with the type of denialist comments that are Tebow fans specialty.

Anybody else notice the two quarterbacks who ran the football most effectively were the two who had the least NFL experience?

The pocket is so dangerous that Peyton Manning played 13 seasons before taking a significant injury that caused him to miss playing time. Tebow made it 13 games.

Also rearing it's head is the myth that the Broncos offensive line didn't protect him. No mention that Tebow struggled to read defenses and looked to throw deep a large percentage of the time. Quarterbacks get hit in the NFL and Tebow showed last year that his playing style - running and holding the ball forever in the pocket - caused multiple injuries (shoulder, ribs, pectoral) that finished him as useful before the final whistle.

The Broncos did rework their offense significantly to make Tebow viable. Trying to play him in a conventional offense led to the Detroit Massacre and the "Tebow

instaGATOR
04-16-2012, 12:54 PM
Sound article with the type of denialist comments that are Tebow fans specialty.

* Unlike the slap-happy twits with their usual idiot-hater-shtick, right?



Last season, purely as a passer, Tebow was the fourth-worst graded quarterback,
better than only Blaine Gabbert, John Skelton and Mark Sanchez.

But to off-set that (which few ever do) was the fact that he had young/inexperienced and/or crappy backup receivers
and he made his team the #1 Rushing Team in the NFL.
They also ALWAYS mention his Completion % but NEVER mention his TD/Int Ratio, Yds/Comp,
or his W/L record as a starter.

* Sanchez was the second-worst graded quarterback in the league last season (-27.9), beating only the catastrophic
rookie season from Gabbert. His rating under pressure dropped from an already pretty wretched 51.9 to 37.4 as he became
a deer in the headlights and was unable to make plays when under pressure.
The Jets clearly have a major issue at quarterback, with Sanchez failing to develop the way they insisted he could.
(and that's NOT coming from any Tebowmaniac)

Tebow brings no media circus with him, that's an outright lie.

The Media-Morons assemble 'their own circus' and then they take it with them wherever Tebow is, nothing Tim can do to stop it.
The Jets know and understand this. They wanted it because they are the ones that set up Tim's initial press conference
and then TOLD Tim to attend to it.
Don't act like Tim's the one that called the press conference to advance himself. Plus he didn't make a dime extra for
doing it, he just tried to stay 'excited' to be a Jet.
================

"I think what people are trying to get at is a quarterback can't be a workhorse running back and still be an effective passer,
within a particular game. Those hits in the pile are bound to reduce passing accuracy over four quarters."

Tebow's total run-pass stats from Pee-Wee all the way to the NFL would seem to contradict that claim.
Only his Comp % dropped off at Denver and that was due in large part to what he had to work with.
Name any other 2011 QB that had his #1 & #2 Veteran WR's traded away before coming in cold off the bench for a game 5 first start.
Tebow's results depend a great deal on who he has as teammates.
See 'Gators in the NFL' that played with Tebow at UF during his 4 years for some insight.

The Pouncey Twins & Marcus Gilbert on his OL.
C Mau Pouncey and OT Gilbert - Steelers
OG/C Mike Pouncey - Dolphins

WR Dallas Baker 6-3 207 rsSr 3L -- Steelers, currently with CFL Roughriders
WR Jemalle Cornelius 5-11 185 rsSr 3L -- Bills, Colts, Cards, currently a FL HS Head Football coach.
WR Andre Caldwell 6-1 203 rsJr 3L -- Bengals, (hired by Broncos after signing Peyton)
WR Louis Murphy 6-2 197 So 1L -- Raiders
WR David Nelson 6-5 206 rsFr -- Bills
*Plus TE Cornelius Ingram 6-4 230 rsJr 1L -- Eagles, Lions, now with Broncos
WR Riley Cooper 6-3 206 Fr -- Eagles
WR Jarred Fayson 6-0 200 Fr -- Jr xfer to Illinois for playing time because of Harvin, - F/A to Saints, now with Colts
WR/RB Percy Harvin 5-11 180 Fr -- Vikings
*Plus TE Aaron Hernandez 6-2 256 07-Fr (#1 HS TE in the Nation) -- Pats
Not to memtion the several great RB's that could both run and catch.
Coached by a 2X National Coach of the Year.

When Tim has 'equal talent' surrounding him and 'competent coaching,' he wins Championships while setting both Passing and Rushing Records.

PS
He has already set both Bronco and NFL Records in both Passing and Rushing!
(but I've NEVER seen a single Media-Moron list them while carpping about Tim)