Alright, I give. Tebow is already a giant pain in the ass. I think I hate him.

[74Mangold]

I know the thread title has the word "Tebow" in it. I know the word is the topic of the article, and it's the driving force behind my post. Still, I don't think this is a Tebow thread. It's a Mark Sanchez, (our Quarterback, anybody remember?) thread. I hope.

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Keller says Tim Tebow isn't coming to Jets to be backup QB
NFL.com
Published: April 2, 2012 at 04:46 p.m. Updated: April 2, 2012 at 10:58 p.m.

Tim Tebow isn't heading to the Big Apple to be a backup. He wants to start.

At least that's what New York Jets tight end Dustin Keller told The Star-Ledger.

He's not coming in just thinking, 'OK, I'm the backup quarterback,' " Keller said Monday at the NFL's new pop-up store in New York. "Every quarterback wants to go in -- or every position -- and wants to be a starter. He's definitely going to push Mark (Sanchez), so I think it's going to be friendly competition there."


Keller and Sanchez are good friends, and according to the tight end, the quarterback is handling the situation "very well."

"I spoke with him about it, not like, 'Is it bothering you?' or anything like that," Keller said. "But those guys are always going to make the moves that are in the best interests of the team, and he understands the whole thing that a lot of people have been saying: He needs a backup quarterback that is going to push him and everything, and this may be that. So hopefully it works out for the best."

When asked how he thinks Sanchez will handle Tebowmania and the possibility that fans will be calling for the backup to replace him, Keller said the quarterback wouldn't crack.

"I think he'll handle it very well," Keller said. "That's why they brought him in. He came from a school, USC, I would say is the highest or closest equivalent to being in the New York market. He's always been able to handle that pressure best when it comes (to) that time of year. Playoffs, whenever the pressure is on, that's when Mark plays his best football, so I think in this scenario, he'll handle this just as well."

Keller added that he wasn't worried about a Sanchez-versus-Tebow debate splitting the locker room.

"We all know that decision is not ours, and the guys upstairs are going to choose whatever is best for us," Keller said. "We just have to let it play out however it plays out."

I'm not really blaming Dustin for popping up and giving a nice juicy one for the drama machine to tee up and run with. It's clear that he was at least trying to pick his words and keep it upbeat for Mark. More than some can say at least. Still, no part of this sits particularly well with me. Not earth shattering, but definitely somewhat annoying. First of all, why can't he just no comment the guy and go on his way? He wanted to get this on the record.

It plays at times like he's saying: "Hey, Mark's great. Love Mark. But shit, Tebow might be fun too guys! Either way, don't worry too much, we're good." No, no we're not Dustin. If Tebow becomes our starting Qb we can all kiss any Super Bowl dreams goodbye.

When I read this article I finally had the sinking feeling of the reality set in. It's never going to end. As long as Tebow is here, there is going to be an unfounded quarterback controversy.

I got the image of the many, many old guys striking up a conversation at half time in the concession lines over the past two years. They dissing Sanchez. Me politely trying to ask them to keep an open mind towards the kid, he's done a lot for us already.

Back then, you could laugh it off. You could talk AFC Championship/s. You could both get your beer and walk off peacefully.

But as last season progressed, you could see the true colors of our bread and butter fan base on their flags flying full mast. "This Sanchez has gotta go" "Sanchez can't throw", "I've never seen such an inaccurate Quarterback in my life", "We better get looking for a new Qb again". You'd hear it a hundred times a game. Now they're not even bothering to start conversations. They're just shouting it at whoever can hear on the escalators.

Enter Jesus.

I go back to the stadium this year. It looks like the Colosseum in Rome as it is today sort of. Also kind of Escape From New York meets The Walking Dead. The SOJF's are roaming the stairways in gangs. They're here for blood.

But no, that's not enough. The idolaters show up by the busload from Florida in their fanny packs and coupons. They're here for #15 and they won't quiet down till they get him. Come join the church while you're at it!

They find common ground. They join forces. Church raffle this Tuesday. We'll drink a naughty beer with you on Sunday after mass. They combine their chants and it's louder than your average J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

If Sanchez doesn't come out firing on all cylinders like a veteran All-Star from the first snap in week one it's going to be time to prepare. Strap on your helmet. Fasten the seat belt. Shit is going to be real.

Fuck.


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[GRNYT]

I know the thread title has the word "Tebow" in it. I know the word is the topic of the article, and it's the driving force behind my post. Still, I don't think this is a Tebow thread. It's a Mark Sanchez, (our Quarterback, anybody remember?) thread. I hope.

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I'm not really blaming Dustin for popping up and giving a nice juicy one for the drama machine to tee up and run with. It's clear that he was at least trying to pick his words and keep it upbeat for Mark. More than some can say at least. Still, no part of this sits particularly well with me. Not earth shattering, but definitely somewhat annoying. First of all, why can't he just no comment the guy and go on his way? He wanted to get this on the record.

It plays at times like he's saying: "Hey, Mark's great. Love Mark. But shit, Tebow might be fun too guys! Either way, don't worry too much, we're good." No, no we're not Dustin. If Tebow becomes our starting Qb we can all kiss any Super Bowl dreams goodbye.

When I read this article I finally had the sinking feeling of the reality set in. It's never going to end. As long as Tebow is here, there is going to be an unfounded quarterback controversy.

I got the image of the many, many old guys striking striking up a conversation at half time in the concession lines over the past two years. They dissing Sanchez. Me politely trying to ask them to keep an open mind towards the kid, he's done a lot for us already.

Back then, you could laugh it off. You could talk AFC Championship/s. You could both get your beer and walk off peacefully.

But as last season progressed, you could see the true colors of our bread and butter fan base on their flags flying full mast. "This Sanchez has gotta go" "Sanchez can't throw", "I've never seen such an inaccurate Quarterback in my life", "We better get looking for a new Qb again". You'd hear it a hundred times a game. Now they're not even bothering to start conversations. They're just shouting it at whoever can hear on the escalators.

Enter Jesus.

I go back to the stadium this year. It looks like the Colosseum in Rome as it is today sort of. Also kind of Escape From New York meets The Walking Dead. The SOJF's are roaming the stairways in gangs. They're here for blood.

But no, that's not enough. The idolaters show up by the busload from Florida in their fanny packs and coupons. They're here for #15 and they won't quiet down till they get him. Come join the church while you're at it!

They find common ground. They join forces. Church raffle this Tuesday. We'll drink a naughty beer with you on Sunday after mass. They combine their chants and it's louder than your average J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

If Sanchez doesn't come out firing on all cylinders like a veteran All-Star from the first snap in week one it's going to be time to prepare. Strap on your helmet. Fasten the seat belt. Shit is going to be real.

Fuck.
hahahaha...thats actually a really good post! you should be a writer

[74Mangold]

hahahaha...thats actually a really good post! you should be a writer

Thanks. I could totally Rich Cimini that shit.

[Royce Parker]

I don't necessarily agree that the situation is that dire, but that was very entertaining. Keep doin yer thang. :metal:

[Jake]

You just realized this? This hit me day one. Sanchez is going to have to come out guns a-blazin'. It doesn't help that our players have absolutely no idea how to talk to the media.

[74Mangold]

You just realized this? This hit me day one. Sanchez is going to have to come out guns a-blazin'. It doesn't help that our players have absolutely no idea how to talk to the media.

I mean, I knew...it was kind of like losing a loved one though. My head told me this right away, but then I read that article and my whole body told me.

[whichfan]

I guess it's going to take some time for most Jets to come to the realization Tebow is the future if Rex and Sanchez don't get it done this year? Everyone else has. Most seem to be in denial mode. Even most Patriots fans have figured it out this is Sanchez's, Mike's and Rex's last year here if things don't get done.

He's the freaking relief. He's not the "back-up" as much as he is "Plan B". Those guys are trying to save their jobs, and they are going all out. He's here to take over if shit goes bad. They saw how he was able to turn a franchise around mid-season and they're hoping he's going to do that here if things don't go well with Sanchez. It's great to have that but it also means someone at the top has lost confidence in the leaders of this franchise or are clearly on board with the fact the landscape of the NFL is changing.

They could have gotten a million other dudes to run the wildcat for a lot cheaper if that's all the Jets wanted. You don't trade for Tebow who never ran one wildcat play in the NFL if that's all you want. The players aren't stupid. They see what's happening and they see the very real potential of what can happen.

The NFL wasn't his first go around. This is his thing. It's like a routine he does. In high school, he wasn't even playing QB. He was playing some other position. He took over it, won a championship. In college, he was the back-up. Took over won two championships. Won the damn Heisman. In the NFL, he was Orton's back-up. Took over a 1-4 team and got them into the playoffs.

This is what he does. Loves to be in that underdog role, come off the bench, and then explode. For whatever reason, whether by circumstance or intention, he finds or maybe even positions himself in this same situation. Most people buy into the whole charade of Tebow's innocence, and the criticism of what he "can't do". This entire situations is basically set up perfectly for Tebowmania part 4. He thrives off all this.

You can't overlook his track record that he's been doing this all his life, under pretty much the same circumstances. If you could compare it to coaching, Sanchez is basically one step away from being a lame duck quarterback right now.

[74Mangold]

I guess it's going to take some time for most Jets to come to the realization Tebow is the future if Rex and Sanchez don't get it done this year? Everyone else has. Most seem to be in denial mode. Even most Patriots fans have figured it out this is Sanchez's, Mike's and Rex's last year here if things don't get done.

He's the freaking relief. He's not the "back-up" as much as he is "Plan B". Those guys are trying to save their jobs, and they are going all out. He's here to take over if shit goes bad. They saw how he was able to turn a franchise around mid-season and they're hoping he's going to do that here if things don't go well with Sanchez. It's great to have that but it also means someone at the top has lost confidence in the leaders of this franchise or are clearly on board with the fact the landscape of the NFL is changing.

They could have gotten a million other dudes to run the wildcat for a lot cheaper if that's all the Jets wanted. You don't trade for Tebow who never ran one wildcat play in the NFL if that's all you want. The players aren't stupid. They see what's happening and they see the very real potential of what can happen.

The NFL wasn't his first go around. This is his thing. It's like a routine he does. In high school, he wasn't even playing QB. He was playing some other position. He took over it, won a championship. In college, he was the back-up. Took over won two championships. Won the damn Heisman. In the NFL, he was Orton's back-up. Took over a 1-4 team and got them into the playoffs.

This is what he does. Loves to be in that underdog role, come off the bench, and then explode. For whatever reason, whether by circumstance or intention, he finds or maybe even positions himself in this same situation. Most people buy into the whole charade of Tebow's innocence, and the criticism of what he "can't do". This entire situations is basically set up perfectly for Tebowmania part 4. He thrives off all this.

You can't overlook his track record that he's been doing this all his life, under pretty much the same circumstances. If you could compare it to coaching, Sanchez is basically one step away from being a lame duck quarterback right now.

I'm just not sure which part of "kiss any Super Bowl dreams goodbye" you skipped over. Allergic to that sentence I guess.

If Tebow wins the Super Bowl for us, I feel like maybe Brad Smith could have if it were him instead. Since Brad Smith couldn't....yeah I'm going to have to say it's going to take a lot of luck and the sickest couple drafts in the history of the NFL for Tebow to get it done long term.

Since I would prefer to NOT turn into Bradw4ysux by the age of 50 myself, I'm going to request to not see that performance.

Lovely story and all. Take it across the Hudson to Broadway though. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Thanks.

[whichfan]

You know I haven't really said much about this, and I hate to start some kind of racial debate, but it has to be said.

I actually feel bad for Sanchez, but in a lot of ways he is very much a victim of stealth racism and stereotypes. More so than probably even black quarterbacks are because it is so freaking stealth and because he has little "backing and support" from his race. Most of the criticism that you hear about him, stems from his background.

He's lazy.
He's not a good leader.
He's laid back.
Etc, etc, etc. And the million other off-handed remarks.

Unfortunately for him, and this is where I'm going to agree with Skip Bayless, whether true or false, perception is a lot of what makes up reality, and he did VERY LITTLE to combat those. He didn't stand up for himself. He allowed it to go on around him.

Now in most cases, keeping your mouth shut and doing your job works. Proving it on the field. In this case, because of the type of things that were said about him, he should have said something.

But his passive reaction to everything, re-enforces the criticism. As innocent and harmless as Tebow appears, even he takes up for himself. He doesn't do it in a confrontational manner, he has a very assertive personality, but he does it.

No QB that makes it to the NFC Championship game in back to back years loses his status this quickly, but somehow, Sanchez has managed to do just that. And it doesn't help the fact that in today's NFL, Tebow who just took his team to an NFL divisional playoff game, and Alex Smith who also took his team to the NFC Championship, were basically completely replaceable. And of course Peyton Manning, got cut by the colts. And even McNabb who accomplished a lot more than Vick, and was arguably a better QB than his replacements in Minnesota, got the boot.

This is now the message these franchises are sending QB's. You don't get to stick around for years anymore feeling all safe and trying to get better. It's not just fans that have the "what have you done for me lately" mentality. It's now the owners and GM's. Their patience is starting to wear thin. Whether that's good or bad, is a different story, but that's what's happening.

[packersfan]

74Mangold I understand what you are saying. It was kind of like that during the whole Favre/Rodgers saga in Green Bay. The thing is as a Jets fan you want the best player out there as your quarterback. Right now that is Sanchez, but if he ends up not winning or not playing well then yes you will have a controversy on your hands. If you are Sanchez this is your time to prove you are the future Jets quarterback. Good leaders rise up in times of challenge and don't shrink back. Don't you want to know what you truly have in Sanchez? This year he has something to prove, lets see him do it.

[whichfan]

I'm just not sure which part of "kiss any Super Bowl dreams goodbye" you skipped over. Allergic to that sentence I guess.

If Tebow wins the Super Bowl for us, I feel like maybe Brad Smith could have if it were him instead. Since Brad Smith couldn't....yeah I'm going to have to say it's going to take a lot of luck and the sickest couple drafts in the history of the NFL for Tebow to get it done long term.

Since I would prefer to NOT turn into Bradw4ysux by the age of 50 myself, I'm going to request to not see that performance.

Lovely story and all. Take it across the Hudson to Broadway though. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Thanks.

That's great because to win a Super Bowl it does require a lot of luck. I don't really care to debate how you feel about this team's chances of winning the Super Bowl stand because of Tebow. It's all based on a bunch of perception and nonsense anyway as far as Tebow's concerned. Not sound logic or facts so you have a right to your opinion. You can believe what you want to believe. But I say considering you've tried everything under the sun for the past 50 years, and it didn't work, maybe praying about it and leaving it up to chance and luck might be the most logical thing to do. That's just my advice though.

[Jake]

74Mangold I understand what you are saying. It was kind of like that during the whole Favre/Rodgers saga in Green Bay. The thing is as a Jets fan you want the best player out there as your quarterback. Right now that is Sanchez, but if he ends up not winning or not playing well then yes you will have a controversy on your hands. If you are Sanchez this is your time to prove your the future Jets quarterback. Good leaders rise up in times of challenge and don't shrink back. Don't you want to know what you truly have in Sanchez? This year he has something to prove, lets see him do it.

Precisely. If Sanchez can't handle the presence of a shitty Quarterback potentially unseating him, he isn't NFL material. I think he'll rise to the occasion.

[74Mangold]

I understand what you are saying. It was kind of like that during the whole Favre/Rodgers saga. The thing is as a Jets fan you want the best player out there as your quarterback. Right now that is Sanchez, but if he ends up not winning or not playing well then yes you will have a controversy on your hands. If you are Sanchez this is your time to prove your the future Jets quarterback. Good leaders rise up in times of challenge and don't shrink back. Don't you want to know what you truly have in Sanchez? This year he has something to prove, lets see him do it.

The problem is that he is GOING TO. But if he doesn't do it just like everyone likes right from the gun, this could turn into a real shitshow.

You know Keller is going to be calling for Tebow behind closed doors being the natural TE. Possibly Santonio. Players can turn. Fan base can turn. There might be a chance we could run him out of town a year too soon and live to regret it for the rest of our fucking lives.

For Tim fucking Tebow. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Not in 2013. Not after this year. You draft another 1st rounder if you must. Never happen.

Level headed JETS fans intuitively understand this fully. Psychotic Tebownauts do not. They can go to one of the 10,000 other Tebow threads and splash their magic Tebow cream wherever they want.

This thread is meant for actual Jets fans that plan on being here after the Tim Tebow train either rolls along to his next stop or settles into this station to be forever second fiddle. If people had a clue they'd know there's no third option.

Making long term moves to replace Sanchez isn't going to get Rex and Tanny fired. They know that. They've won Woody's heart for years to come even if they haven't won everyone else's. That's all that matters.

They'll lose their jobs if they cut ties with Sanchez for Tebow and they live to regret it when Sanchez pans out. They'll lose their jobs if they cut Sanchez for Tebow and Tebow just isn't that great as a quarterback. Going with Tebow for Sanchez long term can only end in disaster from their positions. It won't happen.

[packersfan]

The problem is that he is GOING TO. But if he doesn't do it just like everyone likes right from the gun, this could turn into a real shitshow.

You know Keller is going to be calling for Tebow behind closed doors being the natural TE. Possibly Santonio. Players can turn. Fan base can turn. There might be a chance we could run him out of town a year too soon and live to regret it for the rest of our fucking lives.

For Tim fucking Tebow. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Not in 2013. Not after this year. You draft another 1st rounder if you must. Never happen.

Level headed JETS fans intuitively understand this fully. Psychotic Tebownauts do not. They can go to one of the 10,000 other Tebow threads and splash their magic Tebow cream wherever they want.

This thread is meant for actual Jets fans that plan on being here after the Tim Tebow train either rolls along to his next stop or settles into this station to be forever second fiddle. If people had a clue they'd know there's no third option.

Making long term moves to replace Sanchez isn't going to get Rex and Tanny fired. They know that. They've won Woody's heart for years to come even if they haven't won everyone else's. That's all that matters.

They'll lose their jobs if they cut ties with Sanchez for Tebow and they live to regret it when Sanchez pans out. They'll lose their jobs if they cut Sanchez for Tebow and Tebow just isn't that great as a quarterback. Going with Tebow for Sanchez long term can only end in disaster from their positions. It won't happen.
Ok good points, but then the question should be asked do you see any way Tebow actually improves to the level where you would want him as your quarterback or have you already formed your opinion of him by last year.

Yes he sucked bad at times last year, but he also had moments that have kept me with an open mind. You are asking for people to keep an open mind about Sanchez, but you seem to have already formed your opinion about Tebow as a quarterback. Just my opinion.

Again, I personally think that as long as Sanchez stays healthy he is going to have a very good year.

[74Mangold]

Ok good points, but then the question should be asked do you see any way Tebow actually improves to the level where you would want him as your quarterback or have you already formed your opinion of him by last year.

Yes he sucked bad at times last year, but he also had moments that have kept me with an open mind. You are asking for people to keep an open mind about Sanchez, but you seem to have already formed your opinion about Tebow as a quarterback. Just my opinion.

Again, I personally think that as long as Sanchez stays healthy he is going to have a very good year.

I allow for the possibility that Tim Tebow could become a dynamic and effective football playing weapon for the Jets or even a few other teams with the right type of roster and organization for him to succeed. I very well may want him on the team for any price within reason.

I will not ever want him to be the long term New York Jets starting quarterback. Not ever. I don't care how much better he gets at throwing the football. Unless Mark Sanchez goes down and Tim Tebow at the minimum gets us to the Super Bowl after winning his way through the playoffs, I don't want him starting the next year if he isn't just holding the reigns for a minute while our 1st round pick develops for a year.

Watching Tim Tebow throw a football is like watching women's figure skating. But I don't mean the Olympics at the end of the night with Michelle Kwan and Nancy Kerrigan. I mean in some medium sized arena in Toronto for a B level competition that made it to TV at 3 in the morning on Tuesday when they're competing against infomercials.

The girl jumps in the air and she starts twisting as fast as she can. She's not so hot so it doesn't flow at all naturally. It looks like she kind of throws herself in the air. But she didn't jump just right either so she starts wobbling in her triple sow-cow and it's anybody's call whether she's heading for a major tumble in .3 seconds.

Sure, sometimes she sticks the landing and the audience sighs in relief that they don't have to all give her that sad hurt face of empathy until she's off the ice and out of their sight. Yeah. Thanks but no thanks. I'll have me a pocket Quarterback please. Or at least one that can throw.

When Sanchez has a little confidence and a couple decent targets he throws the ball like vintage Brett friggin' Favre when he wants to. He don't give a fuck. He just whips it in there 40 50 yards and drops it right in their bread basket with time expiring and the world watching when it matters most. Boom, headshot. Ya dead. No big thing.

Tim Tebow will never do that for as long as he lives. Don't tell me about wildcat value. Brad Smith had wildcat value. It's not the same zip code. Never will be.

[SwagMuffin]

You know I haven't really said much about this, and I hate to start some kind of racial debate, but it has to be said.

I actually feel bad for Sanchez, but in a lot of ways he is very much a victim of stealth racism and stereotypes. More so than probably even black quarterbacks are because it is so freaking stealth and because he has little "backing and support" from his race. Most of the criticism that you hear about him, stems from his background.

He's lazy.
He's not a good leader.
He's laid back.
Etc, etc, etc. And the million other off-handed remarks.

Unfortunately for him, and this is where I'm going to agree with Skip Bayless, whether true or false, perception is a lot of what makes up reality, and he did VERY LITTLE to combat those. He didn't stand up for himself. He allowed it to go on around him.

Now in most cases, keeping your mouth shut and doing your job works. Proving it on the field. In this case, because of the type of things that were said about him, he should have said something.

But his passive reaction to everything, re-enforces the criticism. As innocent and harmless as Tebow appears, even he takes up for himself. He doesn't do it in a confrontational manner, he has a very assertive personality, but he does it.

No QB that makes it to the NFC Championship game in back to back years loses his status this quickly, but somehow, Sanchez has managed to do just that. And it doesn't help the fact that in today's NFL, Tebow who just took his team to an NFL divisional playoff game, and Alex Smith who also took his team to the NFC Championship, were basically completely replaceable. And of course Peyton Manning, got cut by the colts. And even McNabb who accomplished a lot more than Vick, and was arguably a better QB than his replacements in Minnesota, got the boot.

This is now the message these franchises are sending QB's. You don't get to stick around for years anymore feeling all safe and trying to get better. It's not just fans that have the "what have you done for me lately" mentality. It's now the owners and GM's. Their patience is starting to wear thin. Whether that's good or bad, is a different story, but that's what's happening.

Just quoting the only post that has any sort of value in this thread.

Well done.

[ukilledkenny]

Step away from the Jets sites, delete the twitter and espn mobile apps on your phone, do anything else besides read about the Jets for a few weeks. It's quite pleasant.

[#1 Jets Fan]

You Tebow nuts/fans or what ever the hell you are. Open your eyes.. as of right now Tebow sucks as a QB. He needs to learn how to throw the ball a HELL OF A LOT BETTER before any team will want him as there starting QB. The only reason the Jets want him is to run the wild cat. Jacksonville only wanted him to help fill there seats. You Tebow nuts can sit there and throw up stats all u want but the stat GM and HC will look at is he completes a little under 50% of his throws.

[abyzmul]

Nice OP even though it's a total overreaction to an article that basically said the same thing people have been saying since the trade happened.

Guess what? Morons are going to want Tebow to start and as you said, SOJFs were already calling for Sanchez' head before the trade happened.

Just like they were chanting the name of Kellen Clemens not that long ago.

It's time to come to the realization that most Jets fans are vapid, just as most people are vapid.

And this may not have started out as a Tebow thread, but it has certainly become one.

[74Mangold]

Step away from the Jets sites, delete the twitter and espn mobile apps on your phone, do anything else besides read about the Jets for a few weeks. It's quite pleasant.

This is probably the best advice I've heard yet on here. Ty sir and will do. Not today though.

[74Mangold]

Nice OP even though it's a total overreaction to an article that basically said the same thing people have been saying since the trade happened.

Guess what? Morons are going to want Tebow to start and as you said, SOJFs were already calling for Sanchez' head before the trade happened.

Just like they were chanting the name of Kellen Clemens not that long ago.

It's time to come to the realization that most Jets fans are vapid, just as most people are vapid.

And this may not have started out as a Tebow thread, but it has certainly become one.

I'm not trying to turn it into any kind of high art or anything, but I wrote it as a story. The heart of it is true and the anecdotes are true, but then I ran loose with it to make my point entertaining.

I'm sure I'll get flamed or whatever but I looked it over after some editing and I was entirely happy with the post when I made it. Still am. It felt nice to come up with something original and on point and make a thread about it. Sue me.

[abyzmul]

I'm not trying to turn it into any kind of high art or anything, but I wrote it as a story.

Cool story, bro. :)

[74Mangold]

Cool story, bro. :)

"Muchas gracias" seems to be a fairly inadequate reply.

Guess I'll go with that then, for my 500th post.

[whichfan]

You Tebow nuts/fans or what ever the hell you are. Open your eyes.. as of right now Tebow sucks as a QB. He needs to learn how to throw the ball a HELL OF A LOT BETTER before any team will want him as there starting QB. The only reason the Jets want him is to run the wild cat. Jacksonville only wanted him to help fill there seats. You Tebow nuts can sit there and throw up stats all u want but the stat GM and HC will look at is he completes a little under 50% of his throws.

It's amazing to me how badly the Jets fans are embarrassing themselves with this trade and showing just how LITTLE hard football knowledge they have and how little they know about Tim Tebow as a quarterback.

Just based on the comments I have seen posted here over the past couple of weeks, it is evident that at least when it comes to forums there are very few football minds actually study and understand football beyond what is presented in mainstream media.

Everything that is said about him on here by Jets fans is exactly everything you hear in entertainment television. Are you seriously so gullible that you believe NFL teams are paying players millions of dollars, giving up draft picks, letting him start and carry a team to the playoffs -in the NFL- if he can't throw the football? Really?

You are convinced of that, huh? Amazing that you would believe someone even gets recruited into college football who can't actually throw the football accurately, let alone the NFL.

[evojoe67]

I want to throw up everytime I log onto the site and see Teblows face on the main page, so I feel ya man.
I'm so done with this Tebow shit and it hasn't even begun yet.

[RevRick]

64% in college. Better check downs and he goes from 9 of 20 to 11 of 20. World crisis and Jets fan meltdown averted.
He already throws one of the best long balls in the game. I think playing part time this year just might work, I certainly see what Rex sees as the potential for "hard to defend".
NY'ers do seem to have a flair for the dramatic, soap opera, sub plots, skepticism, and the over-reaction though. Either way, this will be fun to watch on here this year!

[stinkyB]

I guess it's going to take some time for most Jets to come to the realization Tebow is the future if Rex and Sanchez don't get it done this year? Everyone else has..........

Why does everyone assume this? More directly, WHAT has Tim Tebow done (at the NFL level) that Sanchez has not done better, that makes everyone assume that he's the improvement waiting to happen? going 8-5, flailing the final 3 games of the season, finishing 8-8, but squeaking into the playoffs because their division sucked? Then won a playoff game vs a team that literally limps into the post season and he's a hero, but gets SMASHED the following week.
The JETS finish with the same record and everyone says they're terrible. Sanchez has won 4 playoff games vs better opponents and been competitive in the AFCC games they've lost, but he's a loser and Timmy's a winner?

I'll be the 1st to admit that Sanchez needs alot of improvement and took a step back last season (despite what stat nerds will say), but the biased comparisons aren't on a level playing field at all


In college, he was the back-up. Took over won two championships. ...........In high school, he wasn't even playing QB. He was playing some other position........This is what he does. Loves to be in that underdog role, come off the bench, and then explode. [/QUOTE]


Not true. Chris Leak was still the starter when they won the 1st championship game, but Timmy did play a significant role in select games through the season. That offense was was eventually built for him. Ron Zook had Leak and a traditional style offense, which eventually changed with Meyer, as they had Timmy waiting in the wings. "backup" in college? maybe if you mean his freshman year when Leak was a Senior.......

Underdog in High School? HA. He was on the front page of the local newspapers the whole time, including a debate of "scandal" of him playing for a school that he didn't attend (for those that don't know, he's from Jacksonville & was homeschooled, but played football at Nease in St. Johns county, by using a relative's address there) He was considered the chose one from day 1.... and that continued to UF.

I like the kid and all, he's a baller, but some of the rah-rah stuff is just way over the top......

[Bannon]

It never ceases to amaze me finding a fan who seemed blissfully unaware that Sanchez was on the hot seat, and it took Tebow to be the wakeup call for that to dawn on them.

It makes all these little soundbites from players amplify in significance, because they were hoping that Sanchez could go into year 4 as the Unquestioned Guy.

[Slap]

You Tebow nuts/fans or what ever the hell you are. Open your eyes.. as of right now Tebow sucks as a QB. He needs to learn how to throw the ball a HELL OF A LOT BETTER before any team will want him as there starting QB. The only reason the Jets want him is to run the wild cat. Jacksonville only wanted him to help fill there seats. You Tebow nuts can sit there and throw up stats all u want but the stat GM and HC will look at is he completes a little under 50% of his throws.

Tebowites can only see the good deeds their object of worship performs. It's like the people who (claim to) read the bible and only focus on the parts like "love thy neighbor" while ignoring the justifications for murder, rape and slavery.

[Catt_County]

When I read this article I finally had the sinking feeling of the reality set in. It's never going to end. As long as Tebow is here, there is going to be an unfounded quarterback controversy.

...

But no, that's not enough. The idolaters show up by the busload from Florida in their fanny packs and coupons. They're here for #15 and they won't quiet down till they get him. Come join the church while you're at it!

They find common ground. They join forces. Church raffle this Tuesday. We'll drink a naughty beer with you on Sunday after mass. They combine their chants and it's louder than your average J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

If Sanchez doesn't come out firing on all cylinders like a veteran All-Star from the first snap in week one it's going to be time to prepare. Strap on your helmet. Fasten the seat belt. Shit is going to be real.


I think you hit the proverbial nail squarely on its proverbial head. Remember the old saying, "the most popular guy on any team is the backup QB"? Well, when the backup QB is Drew Stanton or Tyler Thigpen, his "popularity" is limited. When his name is "Tim Tebow" and he brings his own congregation of Tebot stalkers with him where ever he goes, his "popularity" will grow geometrically with every miscue Sanchez makes.

Maybe Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers could withstand Tebowmania, but I doubt that Mark Sanchez can. He's literally been set up to fail by the Jets FO by this move.

Trading for Tebow not only created an unnecessary QB controversy, given Tebow's lack of suitable QB skills, it serves absolutely no purpose. How is Tebow going to "push" Sanchez in practice? The idea of one QB "pushing" another implies the QBs are of similar quality -- or at least similar types of talent. Sanchez vs Tebow would be more like an apple and an orange competing in a taste test. DOH!

As a starting QB, Tebow would be a disaster for any team. That should be clear from the results of late last season after teams had figured Timmy out. I'm sure it was the major motivation behind John Elway's pursuit of Peyton Manning, the only QB available who could put the damper on Tebowmania in Denver.

Maybe this is Woody Johnson/Mike Tannenbaum's plan to get a shot at Matt Barkley in the 2013 draft.

[RevRick]

Tebowites can only see the good deeds their object of worship performs. It's like the people who (claim to) read the bible and only focus on the parts like "love thy neighbor" while ignoring the justifications for murder, rape and slavery.

I love free will, the freedom to think, say and believe what one thinks best - so do you honestly think Jesus teachings justify murder, rape and slavery??? The Old Testament is barbaric, written to, for, and about barbaric times and people. But Jesus teachings?

[Don]

You think you hate him? That sounds more like a jilted lover than a fan.

[74Mangold]

You think you hate him? That sounds more like a jilted lover than a fan.

Nice one, turd.

[Slap]

I love free will, the freedom to think, say and believe what one thinks best - so do you honestly think Jesus teachings justify murder, rape and slavery??? The Old Testament is barbaric, written to, for, and about barbaric times and people. But Jesus teachings?

So, everything in the Old Testament is invalid then?

[reverseapachemaster]

I couldn't care less about what somebody did in high school.

[Catt_County]

So, everything in the Old Testament is invalid then?

Until some "Christian" needs to use it to justify murder, rape, and slavery ... :wink:

[Big Blocker]

What I think will happen?

Sanchez will play much as he did last year. Mediocre. After a few weeks, the Tebots will get increasingly ansty and vocal. Some article will appear how some anonymous source says players want to see what Tebow can do.

Sanchez will hear this, and will put on a bad game face, like someone stole his antidepressant medication. There will be an unconfirmed report that Upton doesn't answer his calls, and another that someone grabbed him off the upper level of the GWB.

Ryan will be delusional in a post game presser after a loss. (Wait, that was last year.)

Okay, Ryan will appear even more delusional in a post game presser after a loss, and say he can't hear the calls for Tebow, thinks "Mark is doing an awesome job, he just needs to blah blah blah..."

By Wednesday of the following week, it is reported that Tebow is taking more snaps behind center with the first team.

By Friday, Tebow throws a post pass intended for Holmes so far out of bounds that it hits Rich Cimini between the eyes, putting him in the hospital.

Nonetheless, Tebow starts the next Sunday, Sanchez is on suicide watch, the Tebots take over the Meadowlands, and Tebow proceeds to run for no gain nine times on three straight three and outs, then throws the first of is six interceptions, and the Jets lose to Buffalo 56-0.

Tebots then blanket the air waves and cyber space how it was all the fault of everyone else, and Tanny ends up in the hospital with a drug overdose.

The Jets go winless the rest of the year.

Woody holds a press conference about how he listened to his football people, and hopes that a new Qb assistant coach can help in the coming season. Meanwhile he begins marketing new psl sales by promising the Big Apple Circus will do half time shows next year for every home game.

Ryan announces he is having his lap band removed.

Mark Sanchez begins dating Rosie O'Donnell.

Part II continues sometime soon.

[whichfan]

I think you hit the proverbial nail squarely on its proverbial head. Remember the old saying, "the most popular guy on any team is the backup QB"? Well, when the backup QB is Drew Stanton or Tyler Thigpen, his "popularity" is limited. When his name is "Tim Tebow" and he brings his own congregation of Tebot stalkers with him where ever he goes, his "popularity" will grow geometrically with every miscue Sanchez makes.

Maybe Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers could withstand Tebowmania, but I doubt that Mark Sanchez can. He's literally been set up to fail by the Jets FO by this move.

Trading for Tebow not only created an unnecessary QB controversy, given Tebow's lack of suitable QB skills, it serves absolutely no purpose. How is Tebow going to "push" Sanchez in practice? The idea of one QB "pushing" another implies the QBs are of similar quality -- or at least similar types of talent. Sanchez vs Tebow would be more like an apple and an orange competing in a taste test. DOH!

As a starting QB, Tebow would be a disaster for any team. That should be clear from the results of late last season after teams had figured Timmy out. I'm sure it was the major motivation behind John Elway's pursuit of Peyton Manning, the only QB available who could put the damper on Tebowmania in Denver.

Maybe this is Woody Johnson/Mike Tannenbaum's plan to get a shot at Matt Barkley in the 2013 draft.


I'm just curious, when they do run the spread offense in NY with Tebow, and he does easily complete passes at 60%, consistently, and wins, again....will you be able to overcome a year's worth of ignorance, brainwashing or will your head explode?

What's it going to be like, to realize you were. THAT. Wrong? And gullible? And basically hoodwinked by mainstream media to believe something what was never true from the beginning? You were basically talked into criticizing and disrespecting an NFL QB because they depended and bet on the fact you would believe what they say and never take the time to look into it yourself, objectively, trust your own brain, eyes and logic. That you trust theirs more than your own.

Is it going to be..Sparano is amazing and Tebow worked miracles in the off-season to "fix" hismelf? What kind of irrational explanations are some people going to have to feed themselves in order to accept what they will see?

I personally can't wait.

When that happens, I just wonder if people are going to stop and say...God how could we have been so stupid?

I don't know. Personally anytime I hear a story of greatness, or amazing acts or feats, I always take the time to dig into it, pull back the illusion, and find out the simple, factual information that makes it all work. I did the same thing when Tim Tebow came into the scene, and it's no different. There's always a reasonable explanation. Nothing lucky, or Godly, about Tim Tebow. The answer is as simple and obvious as it can be. He's GOOD! As a passer. As an NFL QB.

You know the saying "the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing people he didn't exist"? Well the greatest trick the media and Tim Tebow ever pulled is convincing everyone he can't throw and can't play quarterback in the NFL.

Trust me. That's the illusion. And that's the key to his popularity.

[Biggs]

I know the thread title has the word "Tebow" in it. I know the word is the topic of the article, and it's the driving force behind my post. Still, I don't think this is a Tebow thread. It's a Mark Sanchez, (our Quarterback, anybody remember?) thread. I hope.

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I'm not really blaming Dustin for popping up and giving a nice juicy one for the drama machine to tee up and run with. It's clear that he was at least trying to pick his words and keep it upbeat for Mark. More than some can say at least. Still, no part of this sits particularly well with me. Not earth shattering, but definitely somewhat annoying. First of all, why can't he just no comment the guy and go on his way? He wanted to get this on the record.

It plays at times like he's saying: "Hey, Mark's great. Love Mark. But shit, Tebow might be fun too guys! Either way, don't worry too much, we're good." No, no we're not Dustin. If Tebow becomes our starting Qb we can all kiss any Super Bowl dreams goodbye.

When I read this article I finally had the sinking feeling of the reality set in. It's never going to end. As long as Tebow is here, there is going to be an unfounded quarterback controversy.

I got the image of the many, many old guys striking up a conversation at half time in the concession lines over the past two years. They dissing Sanchez. Me politely trying to ask them to keep an open mind towards the kid, he's done a lot for us already.

Back then, you could laugh it off. You could talk AFC Championship/s. You could both get your beer and walk off peacefully.

But as last season progressed, you could see the true colors of our bread and butter fan base on their flags flying full mast. "This Sanchez has gotta go" "Sanchez can't throw", "I've never seen such an inaccurate Quarterback in my life", "We better get looking for a new Qb again". You'd hear it a hundred times a game. Now they're not even bothering to start conversations. They're just shouting it at whoever can hear on the escalators.

Enter Jesus.

I go back to the stadium this year. It looks like the Colosseum in Rome as it is today sort of. Also kind of Escape From New York meets The Walking Dead. The SOJF's are roaming the stairways in gangs. They're here for blood.

But no, that's not enough. The idolaters show up by the busload from Florida in their fanny packs and coupons. They're here for #15 and they won't quiet down till they get him. Come join the church while you're at it!

They find common ground. They join forces. Church raffle this Tuesday. We'll drink a naughty beer with you on Sunday after mass. They combine their chants and it's louder than your average J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

If Sanchez doesn't come out firing on all cylinders like a veteran All-Star from the first snap in week one it's going to be time to prepare. Strap on your helmet. Fasten the seat belt. Shit is going to be real.

Fuck.


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As an SOJ fan who thinks Sanchez has allot to prove, if anything this move makes me more supportive of Sanchez.

While I may think he can't do it and ultimately we are doomed, I'm still looking to put the end of days out a few years.

[whichfan]

It is so obvious not one single Jets player are willing to back Sanchez up. The most they could come up with was "well he did get that extension, so if he's not going to be the starter, why did he get that?" Not, "He's our guy. He's our man." None of that.

This smells so much like a case of "Tim Tebow is the Denver Bronco's starting QB going into training camp".

[displacedfan]

Just watched Antonio Cromartie on Take Two...It is so obvious not one single Jets player are willing to back Sanchez up. The most he could come up with was "well he did get that extension, so if he's not going to be the starter, why did he get that?" Not, "He's our guy. He's our man." None of that.

This smells so much like a case of "Tim Tebow is the Denver Bronco's starting QB going into training camp".

Hade you missed Tone's tweets before the Tebow trade saying Sanchez is our guy, what about Mangold, Keller, Brick etc and etc.

The players sound confused because Sanchez was the guy then the Jets traded for a backup QB. What does that mean to them? Is Tebow brought in here to push Sanchez, replace him, complement him? The players are in much of a limbo as fans are.

[FakeSpike13]

Underdog in High School? HA. He was on the front page of the local newspapers the whole time, including a debate of "scandal" of him playing for a school that he didn't attend (for those that don't know, he's from Jacksonville & was homeschooled, but played football at Nease in St. Johns county, by using a relative's address there) He was considered the chose one from day 1.... and that continued to UF.

I like the kid and all, he's a baller, but some of the rah-rah stuff is just way over the top......

I think the "Underdog" title he got in HS was because the team that was in his district didn't think he could play QB and wanted him to play LB...Thus the reason he registered under a different address to play at Nease.

Obviously he ended up garnering a lot of attention, but even the school he was zoned to play for didn't think he could play QB.

[catsigater]

Nice OP even though it's a total overreaction to an article that basically said the same thing people have been saying since the trade happened.

Guess what? Morons are going to want Tebow to start and as you said, SOJFs were already calling for Sanchez' head before the trade happened.

Just like they were chanting the name of Kellen Clemens not that long ago.

It's time to come to the realization that most Jets fans are vapid, just as most people are vapid.

And this may not have started out as a Tebow thread, but it has certainly become one.

I want Tebow to start, but that's a separate question from whether he should start.

As of now, Sanchez is the starting QB. Unless he shows a marked slide from even last year's mediocre performance AND that slide continues for several games, perhaps even the majority of the season, AND Tebow shows dramatic improvement as a passer, there's no reason to give Tebow the nod over Sanchez.

[whichfan]

Hade you missed Tone's tweets before the Tebow trade saying Sanchez is our guy, what about Mangold, Keller, Brick etc and etc.

The players sound confused because Sanchez was the guy then the Jets traded for a backup QB. What does that mean to them? Is Tebow brought in here to push Sanchez, replace him, complement him? The players are in much of a limbo as fans are.

No, I know about his Tweets, before it was announced Tebow would actually come to the Jets. Which is why it's at the very least suspicious that he would tone down his support for Sanchez all of a sudden when asked the question. Almost like he was advised to stop that. You would expect him to change his tune on Tebow, but if Sanchez was the unquestioned starter, you wouldn't expect him to change his unwavering support of Sanchez. And it's pretty clear that's what happened. None of the Jets players are endorsing him like you would expect. They're all very soft about it. Now whether that's because they were told certain things, or because that's how they feel, I don't know. And I'm not sure that it makes a difference.


You know this whole situation reminds of the 2008 Carolina Panthers decision to re-sign Jake Delhomme to a huge extension up until 2014 after he imploded in the playoffs at home. He got benched mid-way through the following season and was cut that same year, despite his gigantic signing. That decision set everything in motion for the Panthers to wipe the slate clean, get rid of John Fox and start over.

This feels like a similar situation to that. Delhomme was a great quarterback while he was in Carolina. Got the Panthers to SuperBowl his first year as a starter, NFC Championship afterwards, playoffs at home in the 2008 season...but that year and during that playoff game he lost it upstairs and imploded throwing a whole bunch of pics. Despite his solid resume, everyone started getting impatient. Especially the fans. Sometimes when you deliver like he did early in his career, and not win, the pressure just builds against you. Just like the Jets fan base that fan-base was split as far as wanting to extend him or not. But he was Fox's guy, fans loved him, he had an impeccable character, and unlike Sanchez, was a hell of a leader. Very fiery attitude. So they gave him the extension, but as it turned out, that by no means meant job security.

In Mark's case, he's missing some of those, but I fear it's a similar situation as far as his confidence level. That is a pretty big and real issue when it comes to QB's in the NFL. It does happen. And with the Giants winning 2 SB in such a short time span, there is no doubt additional pressure on the Jets franchise.

What I believe happened with the Jets, is they probably did want to go for Manning. The missed. However, no one believed he would oust Tebow out of Denver. A lot of people believed Manning to go anywhere but there.

So what were the Jets to do? They are in win now mode and the most sure fire QB's were pretty much spoken for. The only FA's initially available would have been Matt Flynn, and maybe, maybe Matt Moore. Would either one of those guys have offered the Jets a significant upgrade over Sanchez even if they could get them? Not at all. So they felt the best thing to do is extend Sanchez, out of fear of losing him to some other team too.

THEN, Tebow became available. It's hard to pass up on a guy like Tebow that's not only cheap, but has a season like he did, the intangibles as he does, and just got to the playoffs. It makes perfect sense to get him considering the Jets situation. The rest is history. And I'm not so sure they would have extended Sanchez if they knew he would become available. They had no clue Tebow would really be on the trade block. Let alone that he wouldn't end up in a spot like Jacksonville.

[Catt_County]

I'm just curious, when they do run the spread offense in NY with Tebow, and he does easily complete passes at 60%, consistently, and wins, again....will you be able to overcome a year's worth of ignorance, brainwashing or will your head explode?

What's it going to be like, to realize you were. THAT. Wrong? And gullible? And basically hoodwinked by mainstream media to believe something what was never true from the beginning? You were basically talked into criticizing and disrespecting an NFL QB because they depended and bet on the fact you would believe what they say and never take the time to look into it yourself, objectively, trust your own brain, eyes and logic. That you trust theirs more than your own.

Is it going to be..Sparano is amazing and Tebow worked miracles in the off-season to "fix" hismelf? What kind of irrational explanations are some people going to have to feed themselves in order to accept what they will see?

I personally can't wait.

When that happens, I just wonder if people are going to stop and say...God how could we have been so stupid?

I don't know. Personally anytime I hear a story of greatness, or amazing acts or feats, I always take the time to dig into it, pull back the illusion, and find out the simple, factual information that makes it all work. I did the same thing when Tim Tebow came into the scene, and it's no different. There's always a reasonable explanation. Nothing lucky, or Godly, about Tim Tebow. The answer is as simple and obvious as it can be. He's GOOD! As a passer. As an NFL QB.You know the saying "the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing people he didn't exist"? Well the greatest trick the media and Tim Tebow ever pulled is convincing everyone he can't throw and can't play quarterback in the NFL.

Trust me. That's the illusion. And that's the key to his popularity.

Whatever you're smoking, you best share, sweetpea. :lol:

[whichfan]

Whatever you're smoking, you best share, sweetpea. :lol:

Yeah you're one of the ones I have a feeling you're going to disappear and never to be heard from again.

[Badaxe]

I feel your pain Sanchez backers. You want the best for the Jets, and you like Sanchez and want him to be the guy. After three seasons as a starter, and some definite success, you haven't seen enough yet, to feel 100% confident he is your "Joe Namath."

As a Bronco fan, I liked the physicality and in your grill identity DEN was developing. Tebow to me, was a good fit for that identity. Screw finesse and precision. I want to see my team beat the hell out of the opponent.

So, point is, Tebow has the equivalent of 1 year as a starter. Elway snuffed him out in one-third the time Sanchez has had. I get it that you want Sanchez "in there ."

Lets just see how they play, how the team responds and go from there.

And yes, so many football pundits are ripping Tebow it makes me pull for him to shove it up their butts and break it off.

[RevRick]

So, everything in the Old Testament is invalid then?
I have no problem with "invalid". Personally, for me it still has value. As for Jesus, one of the reasons for His rejection/death was His position of, the law says, "eye for an eye" but I say, "love, forgive, pray for, do good to". Religious people (then and now) prefer the judge, condemn, guilt and punishment road. Even today, imho, the religious people "saying" they follow Jesus can be the biggest hindrance to Jesus and His teachings. I have no problem separating the teachings of Jesus from the Old Testament or from most of His followers judgmental, closed minded teachings/actions of today.
Anyway, back to football. So, you're excited about Tebow being a jet, huh? LOL

[Mambo9]

You don't hate Tebow, you hate the media!

[Catt_County]

Yeah you're one of the ones I have a feeling you're going to disappear and never to be heard from again.

Guess again. Check my start date. Unlike yourself, I've been here for a while. I will be here after the Tebot Congregation folds its tents and shambles off to follow Timmy on his next stop on the Failed First Round QB Tour.

[whichfan]

Guess again. Check my start date. Unlike yourself, I've been here for a while. I will be here after the Tebot Congregation folds its tents and shambles off to follow Timmy on his next stop on the Failed First Round QB Tour.

Even after Tebow becomes a permanent starter and Fitzpatrick gets run out of the NFL? I'll be looking for you.

PS: I hope you realize there's more than Griffin and Luck in this draft and the Bills have #10 draft pick. Your GM already stated they are open to drafting a QB. As much as you've been going around touting Fitzy, I hope you haven't become too attached. I have my suspicions that a quarterback who won only 2 games last year when he increased his passing over 30 attempts, is going to get a rookie wide receiver like most are predicting with that #10 pick...

[FakeSpike13]

Guess again. Check my start date. Unlike yourself, I've been here for a while. I will be here after the Tebot Congregation folds its tents and shambles off to follow Timmy on his next stop on the Failed First Round QB Tour.
Seeing as how you have less than 500 posts in 7 years, I'm guessing there were long periods of dormancy...

I'm guessing he's right that you will go into hibernation again by week 7 after Tebow takes over.

[displacedfan]

And I'm not sure that it makes a difference

I don't think the Jets suddenly started telling the players what to and what not to say. I think the players are genuinely confused with the move so they don't know what to say. The extended Sanchez meaning they have faith in him this year, they signed a backup who can fill in if Sanchez goes down. Solid case Sanchez is the starter.
Then they trade for Tebow who was just a starter and label him as the backup QB. They say he is only going to be used for wildcat be he jumped to the #2 QB on the depth chart and they traded Stanton. This left the players and many of the fanbase confused. Usually the backup QB is the most popular, but now take the most polarizing NFL figure and put him at backup QB, you have a legitimate QB controversy generated by the media even if there isn't one.
The players also haven't been allowed to meet with coaches so there isn't a full knowledge of what is expected from Tebow.

All this would cause confusion. You have a guy that you supported and the FO says they supports, then they trade for a QB who started a year ago and one of the reasons he started is because fans called for it. It makes no sense what the Jets FO did. Even through Tebow became available, they were not forced to make it. They could have used a 4th and 6th on other players or needs. It was choice they decided to make, not a decision they had to make.

[packersfan]

What I think will happen?

Sanchez will play much as he did last year. Mediocre. After a few weeks, the Tebots will get increasingly ansty and vocal. Some article will appear how some anonymous source says players want to see what Tebow can do.

Sanchez will hear this, and will put on a bad game face, like someone stole his antidepressant medication. There will be an unconfirmed report that Upton doesn't answer his calls, and another that someone grabbed him off the upper level of the GWB.

Ryan will be delusional in a post game presser after a loss. (Wait, that was last year.)

Okay, Ryan will appear even more delusional in a post game presser after a loss, and say he can't hear the calls for Tebow, thinks "Mark is doing an awesome job, he just needs to blah blah blah..."

By Wednesday of the following week, it is reported that Tebow is taking more snaps behind center with the first team.

By Friday, Tebow throws a post pass intended for Holmes so far out of bounds that it hits Rich Cimini between the eyes, putting him in the hospital.

Nonetheless, Tebow starts the next Sunday, Sanchez is on suicide watch, the Tebots take over the Meadowlands, and Tebow proceeds to run for no gain nine times on three straight three and outs, then throws the first of is six interceptions, and the Jets lose to Buffalo 56-0.

Tebots then blanket the air waves and cyber space how it was all the fault of everyone else, and Tanny ends up in the hospital with a drug overdose.

The Jets go winless the rest of the year.

Woody holds a press conference about how he listened to his football people, and hopes that a new Qb assistant coach can help in the coming season. Meanwhile he begins marketing new psl sales by promising the Big Apple Circus will do half time shows next year for every home game.

Ryan announces he is having his lap band removed.

Mark Sanchez begins dating Rosie O'Donnell.

Part II continues sometime soon.
I think you are overreacting a bit to this trade, but this is some funny shit.

[packersfan]

I allow for the possibility that Tim Tebow could become a dynamic and effective football playing weapon for the Jets or even a few other teams with the right type of roster and organization for him to succeed. I very well may want him on the team for any price within reason.

I will not ever want him to be the long term New York Jets starting quarterback. Not ever. I don't care how much better he gets at throwing the football. Unless Mark Sanchez goes down and Tim Tebow at the minimum gets us to the Super Bowl after winning his way through the playoffs, I don't want him starting the next year if he isn't just holding the reigns for a minute while our 1st round pick develops for a year.

Watching Tim Tebow throw a football is like watching women's figure skating. But I don't mean the Olympics at the end of the night with Michelle Kwan and Nancy Kerrigan. I mean in some medium sized arena in Toronto for a B level competition that made it to TV at 3 in the morning on Tuesday when they're competing against infomercials.

The girl jumps in the air and she starts twisting as fast as she can. She's not so hot so it doesn't flow at all naturally. It looks like she kind of throws herself in the air. But she didn't jump just right either so she starts wobbling in her triple sow-cow and it's anybody's call whether she's heading for a major tumble in .3 seconds.

Sure, sometimes she sticks the landing and the audience sighs in relief that they don't have to all give her that sad hurt face of empathy until she's off the ice and out of their sight. Yeah. Thanks but no thanks. I'll have me a pocket Quarterback please. Or at least one that can throw.

When Sanchez has a little confidence and a couple decent targets he throws the ball like vintage Brett friggin' Favre when he wants to. He don't give a fuck. He just whips it in there 40 50 yards and drops it right in their bread basket with time expiring and the world watching when it matters most. Boom, headshot. Ya dead. No big thing.

Tim Tebow will never do that for as long as he lives. Don't tell me about wildcat value. Brad Smith had wildcat value. It's not the same zip code. Never will be.
I totally understand your desire to have a pocket passer as a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is my quarterback and I wouldn't want Tebow to be the Packers quarterback either. If Tebow is going to be a quarterback in the NFL long term he is going to have to learn to stay in the pocket and throw a good ball.

You don't think he ever will and I think he might. That is the difference between our opinions. Rodgers was terrible his first two years with the Packers. Many Packer fans were calling for him to be cut.

My only point is that with his work ethic why couldn't he improve his footwork and mechanics? I don't think he has ever had a coach that could develop those skills at an NFL level.

Urban Meyer ran the spread and ran it well. From what I understand in Tebow's high school career it was more of the same.

Maybe just maybe Tebow can retool and become an NFL quarterback only time will tell.
I am rooting for him because I always root for players that the experts say will never make it.

I also think Sanchez is a good quarterback who needs to take responsibility for the team and grow as a leader. The question is does he have it in him?

[chadedward]

Best pro/con Tebow Jets arguments I've read anywhere.

[CowboysFan]

I know the thread title has the word "Tebow" in it. I know the word is the topic of the article, and it's the driving force behind my post. Still, I don't think this is a Tebow thread. It's a Mark Sanchez, (our Quarterback, anybody remember?) thread. I hope.



who cares what old men are saying? who cares what other people say? If anything it unites the locker room in and us versus the world mentality.

Although I will admit I like your writing style and the way you wrote the post, I think the concerns are unfounded.

[CowboysFan]

You Tebow nuts/fans or what ever the hell you are. Open your eyes.. as of right now Tebow sucks as a QB. He needs to learn how to throw the ball a HELL OF A LOT BETTER before any team will want him as there starting QB. The only reason the Jets want him is to run the wild cat. Jacksonville only wanted him to help fill there seats. You Tebow nuts can sit there and throw up stats all u want but the stat GM and HC will look at is he completes a little under 50% of his throws.

here is a good stat:

NO LOSING SEASON AS A STARTER AT ANY LEVEL.....EVER

[Biggs]

here is a good stat:

NO LOSING SEASON AS A STARTER AT ANY LEVEL.....EVER

Here's a stat. Troy Aikman had 2 lossing seasons in a row before winning 3 SB.

[VanderbiltJets]

In college, he was the back-up. Took over won two championships.

He was a true freshman behind senior QB Chris Leak; of course he began as a back-up that's the nature of college football. It was Leak's job to lose and he played well enough to keep it throughout the season. Tebow never "overtook" Leak; instead, Tebow won the starting job when Leak graduated and he graduated from backup to starter. Also, he didn't "take over and win two championships". They won his first BCSNC during his freshman year in 2007 with Chris Leak winning the Offensive MVP award for the BCSNCG...

[VanderbiltJets]

You know this whole situation reminds of the 2008 Carolina Panthers decision to re-sign Jake Delhomme to a huge extension up until 2014 after he imploded in the playoffs at home. He got benched mid-way through the following season and was cut that same year, despite his gigantic signing. That decision set everything in motion for the Panthers to wipe the slate clean, get rid of John Fox and start over.

This feels like a similar situation to that. Delhomme was a great quarterback while he was in Carolina. Got the Panthers to SuperBowl his first year as a starter, NFC Championship afterwards, playoffs at home in the 2008 season...but that year and during that playoff game he lost it upstairs and imploded throwing a whole bunch of pics. Despite his solid resume, everyone started getting impatient. Especially the fans. Sometimes when you deliver like he did early in his career, and not win, the pressure just builds against you. Just like the Jets fan base that fan-base was split as far as wanting to extend him or not. But he was Fox's guy, fans loved him, he had an impeccable character, and unlike Sanchez, was a hell of a leader. Very fiery attitude. So they gave him the extension, but as it turned out, that by no means meant job security.

Not only are you close to 100% intuition, but you're also close to 100% incorrect.

I have a feeling that Alex Smith will win the MVP award and the Super Bowl based on his performance last year. Ipso facto I am correct.

[CowboysFan]

Here's a stat. Troy Aikman had 2 lossing seasons in a row before winning 3 SB.

Yes absolutely.

My point is that the anti Tebow post ,which FAR out number anything pro tebow (so the fear of the tebots is totally unfounded) makes a dire prediction of epic losing now that Tebow is on the jets .

based on what exactly? What is the "losing of epic proportions" sentiment coming from?

Did Tebow have a losing record as a starter with a team that was the very worst in the NFL when he took over, going back 2 years (based on wins and losses) last year? No he didn't. So what exactly is all the "tebow is a loser " stuff coming form?

It's bizzarre and obviously not based on anything historical

and please whomever is responding spare me the 46.5% completion percentage (the only drum ever beaten on) because it did not equal losing last year and Tebow is only going to get better with that stat.

[whichfan]

Not only are you close to 100% intuition, but you're also close to 100% incorrect.

I have a feeling that Alex Smith will win the MVP award and the Super Bowl based on his performance last year. Ipso facto I am correct.

Thanks for peeking into your crystal ball.

[packersfan]

Yes absolutely.

My point is that the anti Tebow post ,which FAR out number anything pro tebow (so the fear of the tebots is totally unfounded) makes a dire prediction of epic losing now that Tebow is on the jets .

based on what exactly? What is the "losing of epic proportions" sentiment coming from?

Did Tebow have a losing record as a starter with a team that was the very worst in the NFL when he took over, going back 2 years (based on wins and losses) last year? No he didn't. So what exactly is all the "tebow is a loser " stuff coming form?

It's bizzarre and obviously not based on anything historical

and please whomever is responding spare me the 46.5% completion percentage (the only drum ever beaten on) because it did not equal losing last year and Tebow is only going to get better with that stat.
Damn, those are some rational thoughts and I thought you were a Tebot, Tebower, Tebinary, Tebopper and are accused of not having rational thoughts....haha

[Bannon]

Rodgers was terrible his first two years with the Packers. Many Packer fans were calling for him to be cut.

I'm not disputing, because I don't know. But are you saying his first two years in the league (still a backup to Favre), or his first two years starting for the Packers?

[packersfan]

I'm not disputing, because I don't know. But are you saying his first two years in the league (still a backup to Favre), or his first two years starting for the Packers?
His first two years in the league as Favre's backup. I know it isn't exactly the same because Tebow started most of last year, I am simply pointing out that Tebow may develop over time.

[reverseapachemaster]

Yes absolutely.

My point is that the anti Tebow post ,which FAR out number anything pro tebow (so the fear of the tebots is totally unfounded) makes a dire prediction of epic losing now that Tebow is on the jets .

based on what exactly? What is the "losing of epic proportions" sentiment coming from?

Did Tebow have a losing record as a starter with a team that was the very worst in the NFL when he took over, going back 2 years (based on wins and losses) last year? No he didn't. So what exactly is all the "tebow is a loser " stuff coming form?

Who is saying he's a loser? Many of us just think he is overhyped and his ability to improve as an NFL QB is more limited than others believe. Just because he did awesome in high school or college doesn't prove anything about his NFL abilities.

Many of us disagree about how last season went down. Some may think he rocked out against all possible odds and brought a team up from nothing to the playoffs. Others think he doesn't get credit for what happened early in the season before he started playing (Orton played many more difficult teams in those first five games) and he did a good job of surprising teams with a very different style of play, but once teams started get wind of it the season started to collapse. Denver legitimately beat an injury-ridden Steelers. Then returned to collapsing. I will even go as far as saying that had Tebow come in earlier in the season Denver doesn't fare any better in its regular season record because teams figure him out earlier and they pick up the same losses. Maybe Denver even does worse.

Obviously, we are not going to agree on these points.

It's bizzarre and obviously not based on anything historical

and please whomever is responding spare me the 46.5% completion percentage (the only drum ever beaten on) because it did not equal losing last year and Tebow is only going to get better with that stat.

Yeah, when you automatically discount stats that defeat your argument it makes yours a lot stronger by default. Especially when you follow it up with a baseless premise.

[catfish]

His first two years in the league as Favre's backup. I know it isn't exactly the same because Tebow started most of last year, I am simply pointing out that Tebow may develop over time.

IIRC didn't he need to completely re-tool he mechanics before he was worth a damn...took the better part of 3 years if memory serves

[FakeSpike13]

Who is saying he's a loser? Many of us just think he is overhyped and his ability to improve as an NFL QB is more limited than others believe. Just because he did awesome in high school or college doesn't prove anything about his NFL abilities.

Many of us disagree about how last season went down. Some may think he rocked out against all possible odds and brought a team up from nothing to the playoffs. Others think he doesn't get credit for what happened early in the season before he started playing (Orton played many more difficult teams in those first five games) and he did a good job of surprising teams with a very different style of play, but once teams started get wind of it the season started to collapse. Denver legitimately beat an injury-ridden Steelers. Then returned to collapsing. I will even go as far as saying that had Tebow come in earlier in the season Denver doesn't fare any better in its regular season record because teams figure him out earlier and they pick up the same losses. Maybe Denver even does worse.

Obviously, we are not going to agree on these points.



Yeah, when you automatically discount stats that defeat your argument it makes yours a lot stronger by default. Especially when you follow it up with a baseless premise.
Or when you equally discount the wins and back up your stance with baseless speculation that they would have lost more games had he started earlier....

[catfish]

Who is saying he's a loser? Many of us just think he is overhyped and his ability to improve as an NFL QB is more limited than others believe. Just because he did awesome in high school or college doesn't prove anything about his NFL abilities.

Many of us disagree about how last season went down. Some may think he rocked out against all possible odds and brought a team up from nothing to the playoffs. Others think he doesn't get credit for what happened early in the season before he started playing (Orton played many more difficult teams in those first five games) and he did a good job of surprising teams with a very different style of play, but once teams started get wind of it the season started to collapse. Denver legitimately beat an injury-ridden Steelers. Then returned to collapsing. I will even go as far as saying that had Tebow come in earlier in the season Denver doesn't fare any better in its regular season record because teams figure him out earlier and they pick up the same losses. Maybe Denver even does worse.

Obviously, we are not going to agree on these points.



Yeah, when you automatically discount stats that defeat your argument it makes yours a lot stronger by default. Especially when you follow it up with a baseless premise.

I think his argument is that the opposition to Tebow tends to throw out all the stats except the completion%. My guess would be he feels that completion% is largely a function of type of pass attempt and receiver skill in combination with QB skill and as such is not a great stat to measure the skill of a QB. He(and others) feel the YPA or TD%/INT% are better measures.

[whichfan]

He was a true freshman behind senior QB Chris Leak; of course he began as a back-up that's the nature of college football. It was Leak's job to lose and he played well enough to keep it throughout the season. Tebow never "overtook" Leak; instead, Tebow won the starting job when Leak graduated and he graduated from backup to starter. Also, he didn't "take over and win two championships". They won his first BCSNC during his freshman year in 2007 with Chris Leak winning the Offensive MVP award for the BCSNCG...

Yes but he scored 2 touchdowns during the Championship game and was in the game from pretty much their first offensive possession. And Leak went undrafted, signed by the Bears after the draft and eventually busted out of the NFL.

[Biggs]

Yes absolutely.

My point is that the anti Tebow post ,which FAR out number anything pro tebow (so the fear of the tebots is totally unfounded) makes a dire prediction of epic losing now that Tebow is on the jets .

based on what exactly? What is the "losing of epic proportions" sentiment coming from?

Did Tebow have a losing record as a starter with a team that was the very worst in the NFL when he took over, going back 2 years (based on wins and losses) last year? No he didn't. So what exactly is all the "tebow is a loser " stuff coming form?

It's bizzarre and obviously not based on anything historical

and please whomever is responding spare me the 46.5% completion percentage (the only drum ever beaten on) because it did not equal losing last year and Tebow is only going to get better with that stat.

Let me set you straight. I think to win a SB you probably need either a decade great D and running game and/or a probable HOF quality QB.

In QB I mean an outstanding passer with great mechanics who can throw in the pocket. Doesn't mean he can't throw on the run but he has to be able to throw in the pocket.

Where many of us feel this is a very bad move is Tebow doesn't give us great prospect to be an elite NFL QB he is a gimmick, change up. Additional while many of us have doubts about Sanchez, at the very least we want him fully developed. I personally believe installing two offenses and taking valuable time away from practice and work on the O around Sanchez doesn't give him the best opportunity to develop. I also don't believe a changeup O is a long term recipe for success even though it might create positive plays in any particular game.

Additionally the Jets have significant holes on the OL, LB and safety along with wr. We also have had a few bad drafts in a row. I don't see wild cat or spread option QB as a priority. I do see RT, Safety, LB, WR, running backs priority in that order.

Additionally we just went through a season where we were loud and bad. A quiet offseason where the team could simply get under the radar and back to work would have been a decided positive for this team at this point in time.

Better weapons in areas of need, quiet offseason, no gimmicks, great draft. That would have been my priorities. This looks like a panic move for the back pages in NY to me.

[VanderbiltJets]

Thanks for peeking into your crystal ball.

It was obviously sarcasm mocking the ridiculousness of your "Sanchez will be the next Delhomme" prediction.

[VanderbiltJets]

Yes but he scored 2 touchdowns during the Championship game and was in the game from pretty much their first offensive possession. And Leak went undrafted, signed by the Bears after the draft and eventually busted out of the NFL.

Because college success does not necessarily correlate to success in the NFL. Your comment was incorrect and instead of acknowledging that you refocused the argument to cover up your tracks.

[whichfan]

Who is saying he's a loser? Many of us just think he is overhyped and his ability to improve as an NFL QB is more limited than others believe. Just because he did awesome in high school or college doesn't prove anything about his NFL abilities.

Many of us disagree about how last season went down. Some may think he rocked out against all possible odds and brought a team up from nothing to the playoffs. Others think he doesn't get credit for what happened early in the season before he started playing (Orton played many more difficult teams in those first five games) and he did a good job of surprising teams with a very different style of play, but once teams started get wind of it the season started to collapse. Denver legitimately beat an injury-ridden Steelers. Then returned to collapsing. I will even go as far as saying that had Tebow come in earlier in the season Denver doesn't fare any better in its regular season record because teams figure him out earlier and they pick up the same losses. Maybe Denver even does worse.

Obviously, we are not going to agree on these points.



Yeah, when you automatically discount stats that defeat your argument it makes yours a lot stronger by default. Especially when you follow it up with a baseless premise.

It seems to me the issue is people clinging on to a completion % that's heavily skewed, doesn't represent Tebow's accuracy and instead choose to ignore pretty much every OTHER NFL QB statistical category that he's excelled in.

More important ones like TD%, TO%, INT% TD/INT...his rushing statistics, air passing yards, long ball accuracy, etc...all the other categories that squash the idea that he has accuracy issues and pretty much loudly scream there's something else going on there that others are very wrongly ignoring.

You are being far from objective, if you're going to discount everything else, and cling to that one stat as evidence or as some sort of disqualification reason why all the other categories he excels in is some sort of fluke.

Common sense is if one excels in 9 out of 10 categories, and there's an issue with that 1, then it's probably that 1 that's the fluke, not the other 9.

[catfish]

Yes but he scored 2 touchdowns during the Championship game and was in the game from pretty much their first offensive possession. And Leak went undrafted, signed by the Bears after the draft and eventually busted out of the NFL.
Just to set the record straight Chris Leak was an incredibly good passing QB. He didn't have the physical build for the NFL, but he did pretty well in the passing league that is the CFL. Tebow contributed to the championship, but Leak was definately the leader of that team. Tebow was used in short yardage situations, and on change of pace series (Disclosure: I graduated from UF in 06)

[abyzmul]

Thanks for peeking into your crystal ball.

Speaking of looking into one's crystal ball...

I'm just curious, when they do run the spread offense in NY with Tebow, and he does easily complete passes at 60%, consistently, and wins, again....will you be able to overcome a year's worth of ignorance, brainwashing or will your head explode?

[VanderbiltJets]

Tebow contributed to the championship, but Leak was definately the leader of that team.

Thank you.

[catfish]

Thank you.
I am an admitted Tebow homer, but I don't think the sun shines out of his ass. He needs to improve, but is far from hopeless or as bad as some people say he is. I think he needs a year or 2 on the bench to work on being a pocket QB without the pressure.

however if he is put in due to injury(sincerely hope not) I think a standard passing game with the usual 1-10 yd passes you see in 90% of NFL offenses would serve to bump his numbers. when 23% of your pass attempts are 20 yds in the air or greater your comp% will suffer(next highest was 18%, average is 12%)

[whichfan]

Speaking of looking into one's crystal ball...

I'm not basing that on something that hasn't already happened. He's already displayed the ability of being fully capable of doing it to anyone that's actually watched him play.

[CowboysFan]

Who is saying he's a loser? Many of us just think he is overhyped and his ability to improve as an NFL QB is more limited than others believe. Just because he did awesome in high school or college doesn't prove anything about his NFL abilities.

Many of us disagree about how last season went down. Some may think he rocked out against all possible odds and brought a team up from nothing to the playoffs. Others think he doesn't get credit for what happened early in the season before he started playing (Orton played many more difficult teams in those first five games) and he did a good job of surprising teams with a very different style of play, but once teams started get wind of it the season started to collapse. Denver legitimately beat an injury-ridden Steelers. Then returned to collapsing. I will even go as far as saying that had Tebow come in earlier in the season Denver doesn't fare any better in its regular season record because teams figure him out earlier and they pick up the same losses. Maybe Denver even does worse.

Obviously, we are not going to agree on these points.

Yeah, when you automatically discount stats that defeat your argument it makes yours a lot stronger by default. Especially when you follow it up with a baseless premise.

Over hyped by whom exactly? most NFL analyst destroy him.

Do you really want me to cut and paste all the jets fans that have said they are doomed? really?

here , I will answer the "catching up to him" myth which is the biggest myth after the "hall of fame level Denver D" myth .

let's look at the highly touted 1-4 record to end the season

The 3 game losing streak, This is a non biased view 100% (the crazed anti tebow post force me 1000% on the tebot side)

First game
Tebow actually played well against NE in that game, in fact statistically he had one of his best games, threw for around 200 yds and ran for close to 120 yards , scored Tds and there were 3 fumbles in a row that sealed the broncos fate (1 was tebow's) . He did not play bad at all and at one point Denver had a 17 point lead on NE. There was no catching up.

Bills game , everything was fine until mid-late in the 3rd when the bills started scoring on the D, they found themselves down and Tebow played like dog shit in the 4th quarter , worst quarter of his entire life at any level.

Kansas city
Tebow sucked donkey balls.He had 5 bad quarters in a row (not arguable) .
But QBs are going to have bad games, he had his best game ever the following week with all the pressure in the world dialed in.

In the Pittsburgh game he set all sorts of records PASSING. Please spare me the Steeler D crap. They had to play 9 in a box or he would have run them over, he had 50 yards and a TD with 9 in a box, so they had to play that way because of him. Also Palomalu was in the game and so was Harrison and they were smoked. Denver was missing more guys than they were including Kuper, Decker, Moreno etc. everyone is hurt that time of year, its only used as an excuse by Tebow haters.

overall the 8-5 record represents what occurred and the reason the other years are important (Denver the worst team in the league previous 31 games) is that the Denver team (while it had its moments with tebow, the defense and the kicker) was not that good before the change. again not all tebow but all those things fell into place (defense, kicking, changed offense, tebow) they were all needed for success and he played his part well, extremely well , way exceeding the "jets are doomed talk)

[FakeSpike13]

Because college success does not necessarily correlate to success in the NFL. Your comment was incorrect and instead of acknowledging that you refocused the argument to cover up your tracks.
What about NFL success? Does a playoff win count for anything these days??

2 AFC Championship game appearances is about the only valid defense I hear for Sanchez...

[VanderbiltJets]

What about NFL success? Does a playoff win count for anything these days??

2 AFC Championship game appearances is about the only valid defense I hear for Sanchez...

I was making a response not a general statement. You can't extract a post without taking its context into consideration.

[kubernetes]

I've just ceased to care anymore. It will be what it will be.

If Sanchez can't man up, he deserves to lose his job. His only job is to compete and win games. The size of his contract is meaningless compared to his performance on the field.

The only way Tebow would start is if Sanchez is terrible and the Jets go on a losing streak. At that point, why not start him? And if Tebow extends the losing streak, pull him too.

I don't know why people are so freaked out at the prospect of Tebow starting. I would be upset, but only because that would mean the Jets are sucking terribly by that point.

If he wins, good for the Jets, and if doesn't, say goodbye to Tebowmania.

[FakeSpike13]

Originally Posted by VanderbiltJets:
I was making a response not a general statement. You can't extract a post without taking its context into consideration.

Way to avoid the question Col. Politician

[VanderbiltJets]

I don't know why people are so freaked out at the prospect of Tebow starting. I would be upset, but only because that would mean the Jets are sucking terribly by that point.

Because, if Sanchez loses the job after getting his contract extension, the 2013 Jets go from being in Cap Hell to being Cap Sodomized and F&(#3$.

[FakeSpike13]

Because, if Sanchez loses the job after getting his contract extension, the 2013 Jets go from being in Cap Hell to being Cap Sodomized and F&(#3$.

They can probably find someone to pick up his contract in a trade, although they wouldn't get much in return value-wise, other than washing their hands of the cap hit.

I really don't think the Jets would have any problem at all dealing Sanchez should they decide to move on from him....Decent QB's are hard to come by in this league and some big-ego OC out there probably thinks they can make him a great passer in their offense.

[whichfan]

Because, if Sanchez loses the job after getting his contract extension, the 2013 Jets go from being in Cap Hell to being Cap Sodomized and F&(#3$.

And keeping a lesser quarterback that doesn't help your team does what? It doesn't fix that problem.

Tim Tebow might as well be a gift from God for the Jets because if Sanchez does turn out to stink it up, then they would not only be forced to cut him anyway, but would have to pay top dollar for another starter. Then you would be in cap hell. If Tebow succeeds, he's pretty damn cheap for the next couple of years.

Either way they have to take a hit if Sanchez doesn't get the job done. But they will sure as hell be happy to have a playoff caliber QB being payed paid a couple of million a year. Tebow is the cap relief they need in that situation. He pretty much acts as cheap insurance for Sanchez's contract. And Tebow's going to be fine with it for the simple fact the Jets gave him a chance and will make a zillion dollars in endorsements. Whatever the Jets pay him will be like a tip in comparison to what he can make from sponsors.

[abyzmul]

I'm not basing that on something that hasn't already happened. He's already displayed the ability of being fully capable of doing it to anyone that's actually watched him play.

Not in the NFL. You don't seem to get that glaring discrepancy, but since you love ignoring glaring discrepancies where Tebow is concerned, I'll just chalk it up to you being a frothing fanboy with zero integrity and zero objectivity.

[VanderbiltJets]

They can probably find someone to pick up his contract in a trade, although they wouldn't get much in return value-wise, other than washing their hands of the cap hit.

Not a chance. His cap value for 2013 is more than Rivers, Cassel, and Matt Ryan each made in 2011. If Sanchez loses his job to Tebow by sucking balls then no one will be willing to take on his contract. Also, his dead money exceeds his cap value in 2013 so the Jets would incur a negative $4.3 million in "cap savings" if they cut him after the 2012 season.

[whichfan]

Not in the NFL. You don't seem to get that glaring discrepancy, but since you love ignoring glaring discrepancies where Tebow is concerned, I'll just chalk it up to you being a frothing fanboy with zero integrity.

Yes in the NFL. Use your brain man. Try to see the big picture for a second and use some common sense.

The kid completed 126 out of 271 passes in 11 regular season games. 1 extra completion a game puts him at 50%. 2 puts him at 55%. And that's not counting any drops.

Let me repeat that for you: 1 extra completion makes him an 50% quarterback and 2 a 55% quarterback and this argument would not even be taking place.


But he also had 6 interceptions the entire season including his playoff games. You cannot be at the top of the league in interception % without giving up a completion or two each and every game. You cannot be an inaccurate quarterback and throw for 318 in the NFL, and only get picked off 6 times. It just doesn't add up.

The fact is coaches go crazy trying to teach quarterbacks to avoid that bad pass that leads to that interception. To throw the ball away. There is 0 benefit from completing another random pass throughout the game at the risk of throwing 1 interception. This is the kind of issue and dumb mistake that kept guys like Bret Farve from ever getting a second ring. Their inability to do that. To let go.

He's one of the smart ones that know how to do that. The "missed" pass down the middle at the end of the Steelers game that was about 5 yards left of his receiver on 3rd down which took the team into overtime...was exactly the same throw Ben Roethlisberger attempted to make and got picked off earlier in the game. That's the difference between Tim and a dumb jock quarterback. He gets that. He places some passes quite a bit away from his receivers, out of reach from his defender anticipating and cutting his routes. He's not doing that because he's "missing". He's doing that because he reads the field very well, anticipates defenders, and while a bit conservative, you can't argue with the results. A lot of that had to do with a lack of a check down receiver. Denver didn't have that, and the ones they did have dropped balls left and right. So he'll place some high risk passes away from his receivers where they have to break routes and come back for it, or no one else gets it. A 3 yard pass isn't worth getting picked off. A first down isn't worth an interception. 10 completions isn't worth an interception. A touchdown might be worth an interception depending on who you are playing, but not when your name is the Denver Broncos and the coach goes for 3 every chance he gets. In that case, not even touchdown pass is worth a turnover.

[VanderbiltJets]

And keeping a lesser quarterback that doesn't help your team does what? It doesn't fix that problem.

Tim Tebow might as well be a gift from God for the Jets because if Sanchez does turn out to stink it up, then they would not only be forced to cut him anyway, but would have to pay top dollar for another starter. Then you would be in cap hell. If Tebow succeeds, he's pretty damn cheap for the next couple of years.

Either way they have to take a hit if Sanchez doesn't get the job done. But they will sure as hell be happy to have a playoff caliber QB being payed paid a couple of million a year. Tebow is the cap relief they need in that situation. He pretty much acts as cheap insurance for Sanchez's contract. And Tebow's going to be fine with it for the simple fact the Jets gave him a chance and will make a zillion dollars in endorsements. Whatever the Jets pay him will be like a tip in comparison to what he can make from sponsors.

I was making a response not a general statement. You can't extract a post without taking its context into consideration.

If Sanchez loses his job to Tebow by sucking balls then no one will be willing to take on his contract. Also, his dead money exceeds his cap value in 2013 so the Jets would incur a negative $4.3 million in "cap savings" if they cut him after the 2012 season.

filler/////

[VanderbiltJets]

Way to avoid the question Col. Politician

I wasn't rude to you. Please don't be rude to me.

What about NFL success? Does a playoff win count for anything these days?

NFL success matters a lot. Playoff wins do count for at least something.

Happy?
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[abyzmul]

Yes in the NFL. Use your brain man. Try to see the big picture for a second and use some common sense.

The kid completed 126 out of 271 passes in 11 regular season games. 1 extra completion a game puts him at 50%. 2 puts him at 55%. And that's not counting any drops.

Let me repeat that for you: 1 extra completion makes him an 50% quarterback and 2 a 55% quarterback and this argument would not even be taking place.


But he also had 6 interceptions the entire season including his playoff games. You cannot be at the top of the league in interception % without giving up a completion or two each and every game. You cannot be an inaccurate quarterback and throw for 318 in the NFL, and only get picked off 6 times. It just doesn't add up.

The fact is coaches go crazy trying to teach quarterbacks to avoid that bad pass that leads to that interception. To throw the ball away. There is 0 benefit from completing another random pass throughout the game at the risk of throwing 1 interception.

He's one of the smart ones that know how to do that. The "missed" pass down the middle at the end of the Steelers game that was about 5 yards left of his receiver on 3rd down which took the team into overtime...was exactly the same throw Ben Roethlisberger attempted to make and got picked off earlier in the game. That's the difference between Tim and a dumb jock quarterback. He gets that. He places some passes quite a bit away from his receivers, out of reach from his defender anticipating and cutting his routes. He's not doing that because he's "missing". He's doing that because he reads the field very well, anticipates defenders, and while a bit conservative, you can't argue with the results. A lot of that had to do with a lack of a check down receiver. Denver didn't have that, and the ones they did have dropped balls left and right. So he'll place some high risk passes away from his receivers where they have to break routes and come back for it, or no one else gets it. A 3 yard pass isn't worth getting picked off. A first down isn't worth an interception. 10 completions isn't worth an interception. A touchdown might be worth an interception depending on who you are playing, but not when your name is the Denver Broncos and the coach goes for 3 every chance he gets. In that case, not even touchdown pass is worth a turnover.

I think I've read this post from you about 30 times, and I already know that you have no rational capacity to argue the abilities, or lack thereof, that Tebow has displayed this far, so instead of working up a response, I'll just...

... chalk it up to you being a frothing fanboy.

[JetsVilma28]

Can't wait! Glad to have another competitor on the team. Run, run, run, run, run!!!

Ground 'n pound!

[whichfan]

I think I've read this post from you about 30 times, and I already know that you have no rational capacity to argue the abilities, or lack thereof, that Tebow has displayed this far, so instead of working up a response, I'll just...

... chalk it up to you being a frothing fanboy.


I think anyone with 4th grade reading ability and logic can see that I have just rationally explained this issue to you. You just can't concede it. That's a personal problem on your end.

Like I said to the other guy, it's going to be interesting to see what some of you are going to be coming up with when you see it done in front of your eyes.

[VanderbiltJets]

I think anyone with 4th grade reading ability and logic can see that I have just rationally explained this issue to you. You just can't concede it. That's a personal problem on your end.

So condescending...

[whichfan]

So condescending...

No you didn't just say that to me. You out of all people. Especially when I'm defending a condescending reply to begin with. Unreal.

[Biggs]

Tim Tebow might as well be a gift from God for the Jets
I thought John Elway was El Diablo?

[VanderbiltJets]

No you didn't just say that to me. You out of all people. Especially when I'm defending a condescending reply to begin with. Unreal.

I was being facetious, take a chill pill...

[FakeSpike13]

Not a chance. His cap value for 2013 is more than Rivers, Cassel, and Matt Ryan each made in 2011. If Sanchez loses his job to Tebow by sucking balls then no one will be willing to take on his contract. Also, his dead money exceeds his cap value in 2013 so the Jets would incur a negative $4.3 million in "cap savings" if they cut him after the 2012 season.

I disagree...Some desperate, idiot GM out there will chalk it up to Sanchez losing his job because of Tebowmania..Proabably someon like Jeff Ireland of the Fins.

[VanderbiltJets]

I disagree...Some desperate, idiot GM out there will chalk it up to Sanchez losing his job because of Tebowmania..Proabably someon like Jeff Ireland of the Fins.

I hope you're right (first assuming Tebow becomes the starter and Sanchez becomes expendable).

[CowboysFan]

Not one response to my post ......its starting to become a pattern and maybe even a badge of honor...

[VanderbiltJets]

maybe even a badge of honor...

Well toot your own horn why don't you...

Seriously though your post content is cohesive and interesting.

[CowboysFan]

Well toot your own horn why don't you...

Seriously though your post content is cohesive and interesting.

I like your post also

[catfish]

Not one response to my post ......its starting to become a pattern and maybe even a badge of honor...
post something I disagree with, I will respond the hell out of it ;)

[Catt_County]

I don't think the Jets suddenly started telling the players what to and what not to say. I think the players are genuinely confused with the move so they don't know what to say. The extended Sanchez meaning they have faith in him this year, they signed a backup who can fill in if Sanchez goes down. Solid case Sanchez is the starter.
Then they trade for Tebow who was just a starter and label him as the backup QB. They say he is only going to be used for wildcat be he jumped to the #2 QB on the depth chart and they traded Stanton. This left the players and many of the fanbase confused. Usually the backup QB is the most popular, but now take the most polarizing NFL figure and put him at backup QB, you have a legitimate QB controversy generated by the media even if there isn't one.
The players also haven't been allowed to meet with coaches so there isn't a full knowledge of what is expected from Tebow.

All this would cause confusion. You have a guy that you supported and the FO says they supports, then they trade for a QB who started a year ago and one of the reasons he started is because fans called for it. It makes no sense what the Jets FO did. Even through Tebow became available, they were not forced to make it. They could have used a 4th and 6th on other players or needs. It was choice they decided to make, not a decision they had to make.

One could say that it's NOT just the players and fans who are confused, but certain powers that be in the Jets organization. In fact, said powers that be might be a whole lot MORE confused than anybody else. I mean, the Jets trade for Tebow really makes most people ask, "What were they thinking?".

[Catt_County]

I disagree...Some desperate, idiot GM out there will chalk it up to Sanchez losing his job because of Tebowmania..Proabably someon like Jeff Ireland of the Fins.

Ummm ... notice that Jeff Ireland expressed absolutely no interest in Tim Tebow. If nothing else, that says he's NOT nearly as desperate or idiotic as Mike Tannenbaum. :lol:

[CowboysFan]

One could say that it's NOT just the players and fans who are confused, but certain powers that be in the Jets organization. In fact, said powers that be might be a whole lot MORE confused than anybody else. I mean, the Jets trade for Tebow really makes most people ask, "What were they thinking?".

The only people asking what they were thinking are the ones caught up in the media over coverage .

[ukilledkenny]

One could say that it's NOT just the players and fans who are confused, but certain powers that be in the Jets organization. In fact, said powers that be might be a whole lot MORE confused than anybody else. I mean, the Jets trade for Tebow really makes most people ask, "What were they thinking?".

The great thing about most people is that they are idiots.

That doesn't mean that this trade is definitely a good move but if I'm betting on something like this I would go against what the majority of fans thought every single time.

Remember when signing Aso made the Eagles the #1 team to beat without question about a year ago? The majority of fans and the media sure know how read a situation.

[RobertPooner]

Ummm ... notice that Jeff Ireland expressed absolutely no interest in Tim Tebow. If nothing else, that says he's NOT nearly as desperate or idiotic as Mike Tannenbaum. :lol:

The fact that someone would use Jeff Ireland prove their point speaks volumes.

[Dirty6Sanchez]

Over hyped by whom exactly? most NFL analyst destroy him.

Do you really want me to cut and paste all the jets fans that have said they are doomed? really?

here , I will answer the "catching up to him" myth which is the biggest myth after the "hall of fame level Denver D" myth .

let's look at the highly touted 1-4 record to end the season

The 3 game losing streak, This is a non biased view 100% (the crazed anti tebow post force me 1000% on the tebot side)

First game
Tebow actually played well against NE in that game, in fact statistically he had one of his best games, threw for around 200 yds and ran for close to 120 yards , scored Tds and there were 3 fumbles in a row that sealed the broncos fate (1 was tebow's) . He did not play bad at all and at one point Denver had a 17 point lead on NE. There was no catching up.

Bills game , everything was fine until mid-late in the 3rd when the bills started scoring on the D, they found themselves down and Tebow played like dog shit in the 4th quarter , worst quarter of his entire life at any level.

Kansas city
Tebow sucked donkey balls.He had 5 bad quarters in a row (not arguable) .
But QBs are going to have bad games, he had his best game ever the following week with all the pressure in the world dialed in.

In the Pittsburgh game he set all sorts of records PASSING. Please spare me the Steeler D crap. They had to play 9 in a box or he would have run them over, he had 50 yards and a TD with 9 in a box, so they had to play that way because of him. Also Palomalu was in the game and so was Harrison and they were smoked. Denver was missing more guys than they were including Kuper, Decker, Moreno etc. everyone is hurt that time of year, its only used as an excuse by Tebow haters.

overall the 8-5 record represents what occurred and the reason the other years are important (Denver the worst team in the league previous 31 games) is that the Denver team (while it had its moments with tebow, the defense and the kicker) was not that good before the change. again not all tebow but all those things fell into place (defense, kicking, changed offense, tebow) they were all needed for success and he played his part well, extremely well , way exceeding the "jets are doomed talk)

Good Post

/filler

[#1 Jets Fan]

It's amazing to me how badly the Jets fans are embarrassing themselves with this trade and showing just how LITTLE hard football knowledge they have and how little they know about Tim Tebow as a quarterback.

Just based on the comments I have seen posted here over the past couple of weeks, it is evident that at least when it comes to forums there are very few football minds actually study and understand football beyond what is presented in mainstream media.

Everything that is said about him on here by Jets fans is exactly everything you hear in entertainment television. Are you seriously so gullible that you believe NFL teams are paying players millions of dollars, giving up draft picks, letting him start and carry a team to the playoffs -in the NFL- if he can't throw the football? Really?

You are convinced of that, huh? Amazing that you would believe someone even gets recruited into college football who can't actually throw the football accurately, let alone the NFL.He completes a little under 50% of his passes. That a good sign u can't throw the ball. I'm sorry I forgot when Denver started to trade him everybody wanted him. I can see ur so far in Tebow ass that u can't see how bad of a thrower he is right now. I can see u know nothing about the NFL this is a QB driven league. Sorry to bust ur bubble but Tebow is garbage when it comes to throwing the ball.

[#1 Jets Fan]

It is so obvious not one single Jets player are willing to back Sanchez up. The most they could come up with was "well he did get that extension, so if he's not going to be the starter, why did he get that?" Not, "He's our guy. He's our man." None of that.

This smells so much like a case of "Tim Tebow is the Denver Bronco's starting QB going into training camp".I'm hear to tell u right now the only way Tebow starts with the Jets is if Sanchez gets hurt. By this time time next season u will be on another message board telling them Tebow will be starting on there team that year.

[packersfan]

IIRC didn't he need to completely re-tool he mechanics before he was worth a damn...took the better part of 3 years if memory serves
Thats about right. He was far more accurate than Tebow coming out (see USC game highlights), but he was like a deer in the headlights trying to adjust to the speed of the pro game his first 2 years. Then bam it clicked for him and he headlined that against the Cowboys when Favre got hurt and the rest is history.

[packersfan]

Let me set you straight. I think to win a SB you probably need either a decade great D and running game and/or a probable HOF quality QB.

In QB I mean an outstanding passer with great mechanics who can throw in the pocket. Doesn't mean he can't throw on the run but he has to be able to throw in the pocket.

Where many of us feel this is a very bad move is Tebow doesn't give us great prospect to be an elite NFL QB he is a gimmick, change up. Additional while many of us have doubts about Sanchez, at the very least we want him fully developed. I personally believe installing two offenses and taking valuable time away from practice and work on the O around Sanchez doesn't give him the best opportunity to develop. I also don't believe a changeup O is a long term recipe for success even though it might create positive plays in any particular game.

Additionally the Jets have significant holes on the OL, LB and safety along with wr. We also have had a few bad drafts in a row. I don't see wild cat or spread option QB as a priority. I do see RT, Safety, LB, WR, running backs priority in that order.

Additionally we just went through a season where we were loud and bad. A quiet offseason where the team could simply get under the radar and back to work would have been a decided positive for this team at this point in time.

Better weapons in areas of need, quiet offseason, no gimmicks, great draft. That would have been my priorities. This looks like a panic move for the back pages in NY to me.
Thanks for the thoughts Biggs. A lot of what you said makes sense.

I think the thing that will surprise you is the mojo Tebow brings to the team.

Let me give you an example, I was on a soccer team that was mediocre at best. Midway through the year a new player joined our team. He was average as a player at best, but was one of the most positive people I have ever met.

Next thing you knew the mood on our whole team changed and we ended up winning our league. I still can't explain it rationally, because we weren't any better, we just thought we were.

[packersfan]

Because, if Sanchez loses the job after getting his contract extension, the 2013 Jets go from being in Cap Hell to being Cap Sodomized and F&(#3$.
This is a good point. The contract extension makes it very important for Sanchez to have a great year. I am totally rooting for him to kick ass even though I like Tebow. I think Tebow is going to help the running game which is only going to help Sanchez.

[Slap]

I am an admitted Tebow homer, but I don't think the sun shines out of his ass. He needs to improve, but is far from hopeless or as bad as some people say he is. I think he needs a year or 2 on the bench to work on being a pocket QB without the pressure.

however if he is put in due to injury(sincerely hope not) I think a standard passing game with the usual 1-10 yd passes you see in 90% of NFL offenses would serve to bump his numbers. when 23% of your pass attempts are 20 yds in the air or greater your comp% will suffer(next highest was 18%, average is 12%)

He doesn't check down.

[packersfan]

Yes in the NFL. Use your brain man. Try to see the big picture for a second and use some common sense.

The kid completed 126 out of 271 passes in 11 regular season games. 1 extra completion a game puts him at 50%. 2 puts him at 55%. And that's not counting any drops.

Let me repeat that for you: 1 extra completion makes him an 50% quarterback and 2 a 55% quarterback and this argument would not even be taking place.


But he also had 6 interceptions the entire season including his playoff games. You cannot be at the top of the league in interception % without giving up a completion or two each and every game. You cannot be an inaccurate quarterback and throw for 318 in the NFL, and only get picked off 6 times. It just doesn't add up.

The fact is coaches go crazy trying to teach quarterbacks to avoid that bad pass that leads to that interception. To throw the ball away. There is 0 benefit from completing another random pass throughout the game at the risk of throwing 1 interception. This is the kind of issue and dumb mistake that kept guys like Bret Farve from ever getting a second ring. Their inability to do that. To let go.

He's one of the smart ones that know how to do that. The "missed" pass down the middle at the end of the Steelers game that was about 5 yards left of his receiver on 3rd down which took the team into overtime...was exactly the same throw Ben Roethlisberger attempted to make and got picked off earlier in the game. That's the difference between Tim and a dumb jock quarterback. He gets that. He places some passes quite a bit away from his receivers, out of reach from his defender anticipating and cutting his routes. He's not doing that because he's "missing". He's doing that because he reads the field very well, anticipates defenders, and while a bit conservative, you can't argue with the results. A lot of that had to do with a lack of a check down receiver. Denver didn't have that, and the ones they did have dropped balls left and right. So he'll place some high risk passes away from his receivers where they have to break routes and come back for it, or no one else gets it. A 3 yard pass isn't worth getting picked off. A first down isn't worth an interception. 10 completions isn't worth an interception. A touchdown might be worth an interception depending on who you are playing, but not when your name is the Denver Broncos and the coach goes for 3 every chance he gets. In that case, not even touchdown pass is worth a turnover.
I have enjoyed reading some of your evaluations of Tebow. Some of the things you have said make sense, but dude some of his throw are just horrible.

I watched every game he played last year and their were times when I just shook my head and said "that was horrible".

He wasn't throwing the ball away, he just plain made a bad throw. He needs to work on his progressions and his short/intermediate throws.

Do I think he might make it as a quarterback in the NFL? Yes I do because he is a leader and a winner, but he still needs to improve a lot.

[#1 Jets Fan]

I have enjoyed reading some of your evaluations of Tebow. Some of the things you have said make sense, but dude some of his throw are just horrible.

I watched every game he played last year and their were times when I just shook my head and said "that was horrible".

He wasn't throwing the ball away, he just plain made a bad throw. He needs to work on his progressions and his short/intermediate throws.

Do I think he might make it as a quarterback in the NFL? Yes I do because he is a leader and a winner, but he still needs to improve a lot.No he doesn't need to improve his throwing. Just keep him in a division where 8-8 wins that division and he will be just fine. Right Tebow nuts?

[Big Blocker]

One could say that it's NOT just the players and fans who are confused, but certain powers that be in the Jets organization. In fact, said powers that be might be a whole lot MORE confused than anybody else. I mean, the Jets trade for Tebow really makes most people ask, "What were they thinking?".

Following the principle that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and knowing the Jets as we do, the simplest explanation is this was a Woody Johnson Special, and designed to distract from the Giants, again, winning the SB, to also get some more interest in unsold psl's from Tebots, to sell merchandise, to most of all remain "relevant" in the NYC market, and also because Woody quite obviously is an attention whore who knows less about football than my dog.

The question "what were they thinking?" is not the real question. What they were thinking is what Woody was thinking.

The real question is how long do Jet fans have to put up with Woody.

[GB#15]

You Tebow nuts/fans or what ever the hell you are. Open your eyes.. as of right now Tebow sucks as a QB. He needs to learn how to throw the ball a HELL OF A LOT BETTER before any team will want him as there starting QB. The only reason the Jets want him is to run the wild cat. Jacksonville only wanted him to help fill there seats. You Tebow nuts can sit there and throw up stats all u want but the stat GM and HC will look at is he completes a little under 50% of his throws.

It will be funny when he is starting for the Jets, and you guys will have to cheer for him !!!

[abyzmul]

I think I just figured out what GB stands for.

[CowboysFan]

Let me set you straight. I think to win a SB you probably need either a decade great D and running game and/or a probable HOF quality QB.

In QB I mean an outstanding passer with great mechanics who can throw in the pocket. Doesn't mean he can't throw on the run but he has to be able to throw in the pocket.

Where many of us feel this is a very bad move is Tebow doesn't give us great prospect to be an elite NFL QB he is a gimmick, change up. Additional while many of us have doubts about Sanchez, at the very least we want him fully developed. I personally believe installing two offenses and taking valuable time away from practice and work on the O around Sanchez doesn't give him the best opportunity to develop. I also don't believe a changeup O is a long term recipe for success even though it might create positive plays in any particular game.

Additionally the Jets have significant holes on the OL, LB and safety along with wr. We also have had a few bad drafts in a row. I don't see wild cat or spread option QB as a priority. I do see RT, Safety, LB, WR, running backs priority in that order.

Additionally we just went through a season where we were loud and bad. A quiet offseason where the team could simply get under the radar and back to work would have been a decided positive for this team at this point in time.

Better weapons in areas of need, quiet offseason, no gimmicks, great draft. That would have been my priorities. This looks like a panic move for the back pages in NY to me.

Very good , intelligent, rational response. We just do not agree on Tebow's potential, that is all. That is where the disconnect is.

[74Mangold]

Yay. This has turned into yet another Tebow flame-war. Hey look at the bright side. At least most of the more intelligent posters on this forum have flocked to fight the flamers in my thread as opposed to some of the others. The thread is sort of the creme de Tebow shit-show if you will. Very classy.

Thanks so much to whichever moderator moved my thread from the general discussion into Tebowmania. Your efforts are well appreciated. Not.

You just had to make sure to drown the baby in the bathtub. In case there was any chance at all that this could have gone vaguely in the direction I'd hoped when I put a decent amount of thought and effort into creating it. Just had to make sure there was absolutely no chance of that occurring. Quite generous.

[74Mangold]

Maybe I should just take ukilledkenny's advice and get the hell out of here and everywhere that's talking about the Jets for a few weeks. Insanity reigns right now and is sucking the life out of any possible useful Jets discussion. As if there weren't enough obstacles to that end already.

Shit already is real. Maybe I should have written it like that instead of going for the dramatic finish.

[GRNYT]

Nice OP even though it's a total overreaction to an article that basically said the same thing people have been saying since the trade happened.

Guess what? Morons are going to want Tebow to start and as you said, SOJFs were already calling for Sanchez' head before the trade happened.

Just like they were chanting the name of Kellen Clemens not that long ago.

It's time to come to the realization that most Jets fans are vapid, just as most people are vapid.

And this may not have started out as a Tebow thread, but it has certainly become one.
I dont think its fair to say most jets fans are "vapid"...they are just frustrated

[GRNYT]

It's amazing to me how badly the Jets fans are embarrassing themselves with this trade and showing just how LITTLE hard football knowledge they have and how little they know about Tim Tebow as a quarterback.

Just based on the comments I have seen posted here over the past couple of weeks, it is evident that at least when it comes to forums there are very few football minds actually study and understand football beyond what is presented in mainstream media.

Everything that is said about him on here by Jets fans is exactly everything you hear in entertainment television. Are you seriously so gullible that you believe NFL teams are paying players millions of dollars, giving up draft picks, letting him start and carry a team to the playoffs -in the NFL- if he can't throw the football? Really?

You are convinced of that, huh? Amazing that you would believe someone even gets recruited into college football who can't actually throw the football accurately, let alone the NFL.
either ur his agent... or this is some "Christian" thing isn't it?

[GRNYT]

I love free will, the freedom to think, say and believe what one thinks best - so do you honestly think Jesus teachings justify murder, rape and slavery??? The Old Testament is barbaric, written to, for, and about barbaric times and people. But Jesus teachings?
myself i like Christ just dont care for many of His "disciples"...

The Religious Right = The American Taliban

[74Mangold]

I dont think its fair to say most jets fans are "vapid"...they are just frustrated

I'd say vapid is fair and then some.

If I only had a dollar for everytime some random Jet fan said/screamed something that made me want to wring their neck....I'd have many dollars.

[ukilledkenny]

Maybe I should just take ukilledkenny's advice and get the hell out of here and everywhere that's talking about the Jets for a few weeks. Insanity reigns right now and is sucking the life out of any possible useful Jets discussion. As if there weren't enough obstacles to that end already.

Shit already is real. Maybe I should have written it like that instead of going for the dramatic finish.

I'm around every day I just don't read much about the Jets right now and what I do read I don't really take in like I normally do. Between the debacle of last season and all ths Tebow craziness it is just difficult to deal with right now. To me is easier to put my energy ino things that I enjoy instead of trying to swim upstream.

If you can't help yourself in regards o the Jets I like to identify a thread or two where the conversation doesn't make me hate humanity and stick to only looking at those.

[74Mangold]

I'm around every day I just don't read much about the Jets right now and what I do read I don't really take in like I normally do. Between the debacle of last season and all ths Tebow craziness it is just difficult to deal with right now. To me is easier to put my energy ino things that I enjoy instead of trying to swim upstream.

If you can't help yourself in regards o the Jets I like to identify a thread or two where the conversation doesn't make me hate humanity and stick to only looking at those.

It's kind of a shame too. I'm not trying to say I came up with the most brilliant thing of all time or anything but I thought I made a cool and entertaining OP that people could read and enjoy that could lead to lots of open ended possibilities to talk Mark Sanchez. Even changes to the offense and offensive philosophy, or how Tebow affects the Jets and whether we'll want him on our team after this year in some capacity. Effective ways to implement him into the Mark Sanchez led offense.

Nope...here's Tebow's nuts....let's plop them in everybody's mouth now and always.

They seem to think just because they want Tebow in every gay way imaginable that somehow the rest of the world simply must want that as well. This has to be the most annoying fan base for a single player in the entire sports world. I'm having trouble thinking up who could possibly even be 2nd and nothing comes to mind.

[ukilledkenny]

I hope this will die down eventually and it will just be a football team again. The only way that can happen is for football to be played and both guys to have success.

[Bannon]

It's kind of a shame too. I'm not trying to say I came up with the most brilliant thing of all time or anything but I thought I made a cool and entertaining OP that people could read and enjoy that could lead to lots of open ended possibilities to talk Mark Sanchez. Even changes to the offense and offensive philosophy, or how Tebow affects the Jets and whether we'll want him on our team after this year in some capacity. Effective ways to implement him into the Mark Sanchez led offense.

Nope...here's Tebow's nuts....let's plop them in everybody's mouth now and always.

They seem to think just because they want Tebow in every gay way imaginable that somehow the rest of the world simply must want that as well. This has to be the most annoying fan base for a single player in the entire sports world. I'm having trouble thinking up who could possibly even be 2nd and nothing comes to mind.

I don't get it. What's the big deal? Welcome to the Internetz.

Your thread title says you hate Tebow, your first post calls him Jesus and basically denigrates anyone that thinks he might be competitive to Sanchez.

And I mean, that's fine -- strong opinions and mockery are par for the course. But I don't get all the crying that seems to imply the thread was hijacked, when it's basically chum in the water.

Don't jump in the pool and then be surprised that it's wet.

[74Mangold]

I don't get it. What's the big deal? Welcome to the Internetz.

Your thread title says you hate Tebow, your first post calls him Jesus and basically denigrates anyone that thinks he might be competitive to Sanchez.

And I mean, that's fine -- strong opinions and mockery are par for the course. But I don't get all the crying that seems to imply the thread was hijacked, when it's basically chum in the water.

Don't jump in the pool and then be surprised that it's wet.

I mean, that's fair, but I also tried to originally post it in the Jets forum. I didn't really see the discussion going that way. Obviously I thought it could turn into a Tebow hijack but I hoped it would stay put and go towards some interesting discussion.

Instead it was just another shit show. I think that my last post, not unlike the first post, is a trumpeted up assessment of very real negative circumstances. You just can't have many interesting Jets discussions on here right now without it turning into Tebow nonsense from discussion insiders or outsiders. It's just kind of a sad state of affairs.

I agree that football needs to be played before normal life has any hope of resuming.

[whichfan]

either ur his agent... or this is some "Christian" thing isn't it?

I'm pretty much an atheist and could care less about religion. That's the issue with some of you. You can't possibly take off the blinders and understand some of us like Tebow for his actual football and performance.

[DFW_Jet]

The problem is that he is GOING TO. But if he doesn't do it just like everyone likes right from the gun, this could turn into a real shitshow.

You know Keller is going to be calling for Tebow behind closed doors being the natural TE. Possibly Santonio. Players can turn. Fan base can turn. There might be a chance we could run him out of town a year too soon and live to regret it for the rest of our fucking lives.

For Tim fucking Tebow. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Not in 2013. Not after this year. You draft another 1st rounder if you must. Never happen.

Level headed JETS fans intuitively understand this fully. Psychotic Tebownauts do not. They can go to one of the 10,000 other Tebow threads and splash their magic Tebow cream wherever they want.

This thread is meant for actual Jets fans that plan on being here after the Tim Tebow train either rolls along to his next stop or settles into this station to be forever second fiddle. If people had a clue they'd know there's no third option.

Making long term moves to replace Sanchez isn't going to get Rex and Tanny fired. They know that. They've won Woody's heart for years to come even if they haven't won everyone else's. That's all that matters.

They'll lose their jobs if they cut ties with Sanchez for Tebow and they live to regret it when Sanchez pans out. They'll lose their jobs if they cut Sanchez for Tebow and Tebow just isn't that great as a quarterback. Going with Tebow for Sanchez long term can only end in disaster from their positions. It won't happen.
Tebow could be like Moses. He'll part the locker room and the fan base as if it was the Red Sea.

Great thread btw.

[whichfan]

Tebow could be like Moses. He'll part the locker room and the fan base as if it was the Red Sea.

Great thread btw.

Only until everyone sees this while he's wearing a green and white uniform.
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[#1 Jets Fan]

I'm pretty much an atheist and could care less about religion. That's the issue with some of you. You can't possibly take off the blinders and understand some of us like Tebow for his actual football and performance.I could careless about his religion. All I do care about is his performance and what I've seen so far he is garbage as a QB.

[whichfan]

Don't know what to tell you. Learn more about football, quarterbacks and offenses and pay attention? Because he's not garbage. Watch some college football. Read up on different offensive philosophies. Or you can wait 2-3 years until ESPN can figure out a watered down version of explaining it to you so you can understand it when half the NFL will be chasing for the next Tebow, Newton, RG3 and Luck. Be glad you have someone that's poised to take the reigns before a large portion of the NFL transitions to that and you are ahead of the game.

[#1 Jets Fan]

Don't know what to tell you. Learn more about football, quarterbacks and offenses and pay attention? Because he's not garbage. Watch some college football. Read up on different offensive philosophies. Or you can wait 2-3 years until ESPN can figure out a watered down version of explaining it to you so you can understand it when half the NFL will be chasing for the next Tebow, Newton, RG3 and Luck. Be glad you have someone that's poised to take the reigns before a large portion of the NFL transitions to that and you are ahead of the game.Me learn football? This coming from a guy who really thinks Tebow is a great QB. You have ur opinion about him so ill leave it at that.

[whichfan]

Me learn football? This coming from a guy who really thinks Tebow is a great QB. You have ur opinion about him so ill leave it at that.

Yeah this is coming from someone that can actually back up his opinions with actual football logic and terminology other than "he's garbage". But if broadening your knowledge and understanding of football is too much, then learn history.

In 2006, John Fox ran the read option in the final games of the 2006 regular season with quarterback Chris Weinke and running back Deangelo Williams. He got the idea from the Atlanta Falcons who, along with Michael Vick, copied West Virginia spread offense read option. Forget the Wildcat, or the spread option. The read option, something Tebow can run with his eyes closed, is a very limited variation in comparison. In 2006, the Miami Dolphins were 1-15. Tony Sporano, in Miami at the time, saw what Fox did, and copied and decided to implemented the following year in Miami. They went 11-5 and made the playoffs.

You need to learn there's more about quarterbacks than dropback quarterbacks, skewed completion percentages and choice highlight reels on ESPN and then maybe, hopefully, you will stop making such simple minded troll-like comments, like Tebow is garbage.

[Catt_County]

Yeah this is coming from someone that can actually back up his opinions with actual football logic and terminology other than "he's garbage". But if broadening your knowledge and understanding of football is too much, then learn history.

In 2006, John Fox ran the read option in the final games of the 2006 regular season with quarterback Chris Weinke and running back Deangelo Williams. He got the idea from the Atlanta Falcons who, along with Michael Vick, copied West Virginia spread offense read option. Forget the Wildcat, or the spread option. The read option, something Tebow can run with his eyes closed, is a very limited variation in comparison. In 2006, the Miami Dolphins were 1-15. Tony Sporano, in Miami at the time, saw what Fox did, and copied and decided to implemented the following year in Miami. They went 11-5 and made the playoffs.

You need to learn there's more about quarterbacks than dropback quarterbacks, skewed completion percentages and choice highlight reels on ESPN and then maybe, hopefully, you will stop making such simple minded troll-like comments, like Tebow is garbage.

You need to stop rewriting history to fit your Tebot fantasies.

Miami went 1-15 in 2007 NOT 2006.
Tony Sparano became Miami HC in 2008.
David Lee, hired by Miami in 2008 as an asst coach, was the inventor of the wild cat back in his tenure as a collegiate coach. He's the guy who brought the wild cat to Miami and to the NFL not Sparano.
Miami didn't go 11-5 in 2008 because of the wild cat. They went 11-5 because the Jests released Chad Pennington when they traded for Brett Favre, and Miami scooped him up.
:lol:

[abyzmul]

LOL! Speaking rewriting history. The Phins had to run the wildcat to disguise Pennington's MANY limitations at QB, they don't sniff the playoffs without that innovation.

[Catt_County]

LOL! Speaking rewriting history. The Phins had to run the wildcat to disguise Pennington's MANY limitations at QB, they don't sniff the playoffs without that innovation.

It doesn't change the fact that Pennington was better than any QB the Fins had. For that matter, he was a better QB than any of the Jets current QBs.

The Jets made the playoffs every year Penney was healthy for most of the season, beginning in 2002 when he took over a moribund offense from Vinnie T and put some spark in it. If he had had as good a team in 2004 or so as Sanchez had in 2009 or 2010, the Jets would have made the Super Bowl IMO.

[Big Blocker]

It doesn't change the fact that Pennington was better than any QB the Fins had. For that matter, he was a better QB than any of the Jets current QBs.

The Jets made the playoffs every year Penney was healthy for most of the season, beginning in 2002 when he took over a moribund offense from Vinnie T and put some spark in it. If he had had as good a team in 2004 or so as Sanchez had in 2009 or 2010, the Jets would have made the Super Bowl IMO.

And let's not forget what happened to Miami when they faced the Ravens in the wildcard game. They got slaughtered.

[displacedfan]

And let's not forget what happened to Miami when they faced the Ravens in the wildcard game. They got slaughtered.

Which every Jets fan knew was going to happen against that BAL defense.

[The Green Dude]

74Mangold I understand what you are saying. It was kind of like that during the whole Favre/Rodgers saga in Green Bay. The thing is as a Jets fan you want the best player out there as your quarterback. Right now that is Sanchez, but if he ends up not winning or not playing well then yes you will have a controversy on your hands. If you are Sanchez this is your time to prove you are the future Jets quarterback. Good leaders rise up in times of challenge and don't shrink back. Don't you want to know what you truly have in Sanchez? This year he has something to prove, lets see him do it.

Sorry I'm late to the parade... but this says it all. Close the thread. It's Sanchez's job to lose regarless of Tebowmania.

[whichfan]

You need to stop rewriting history to fit your Tebot fantasies.

Miami went 1-15 in 2007 NOT 2006.
Tony Sparano became Miami HC in 2008.
David Lee, hired by Miami in 2008 as an asst coach, was the inventor of the wild cat back in his tenure as a collegiate coach. He's the guy who brought the wild cat to Miami and to the NFL not Sparano.
Miami didn't go 11-5 in 2008 because of the wild cat. They went 11-5 because the Jests released Chad Pennington when they traded for Brett Favre, and Miami scooped him up.
:lol:

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Anyway, the point is it was very effective in the NFL with the right type of quarterback, and even the wrong type of quarterback, and it's only the tip of the ice burg of what you can do with the spread option and Tim Tebow who is the ideal quarterback to run it.

PS: Most of the innovation in formations and in football don't take place in the NFL or college. Most of them take place in high school and somebody with enough pull and job security rips them off and gets the credit for it. See the spread offense and many other offensive philosophies.

[VanderbiltJets]

In 2006, the Miami Dolphins were 1-15. Tony Sporano, in Miami at the time, saw what Fox did, and copied and decided to implemented the following year in Miami.

Sparano was in Miami at what time?

[VanderbiltJets]

Be glad you have someone that's poised to take the reigns before a large portion of the NFL transitions to that and you are ahead of the game.

No one believes this to be true.

[whichfan]

It was 07/08, not 06/07. Mistake on my part because Carolina did it at the end of 2006. And lots of people believe it to be the case.

[soh_vet]

It was 07/08, not 06/07. Mistake on my part because Carolina did it at the end of 2006. And lots of people believe it to be the case.

whichfan, i'm sure you're a decent fellow, an upstanding citizen. You joined theganggreen last month, have 287 posts and are obviously TiT's #1 fan. I hope you have a happy and healthy life and I wish you the best. I also hope you lose your fingers so i don't have to read the crap you post on this board ever again.

Welcome to the forum, now get the fuck out!
:jets:

[CowboysFan]

Following the principle that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and knowing the Jets as we do, the simplest explanation is this was a Woody Johnson Special, and designed to distract from the Giants, again, winning the SB, to also get some more interest in unsold psl's from Tebots, to sell merchandise, to most of all remain "relevant" in the NYC market, and also because Woody quite obviously is an attention whore who knows less about football than my dog.

The question "what were they thinking?" is not the real question. What they were thinking is what Woody was thinking.

The real question is how long do Jet fans have to put up with Woody.

I am a huge proponent of using Occam's Razor , specifically when conducting certain business negotiations and wondering what angle is being taken by the opposing side (It really works no doubt about it, anyone reading this that does not know what it is please look it up).

I really believe that you can also say that the simplest explanation is that he makes the team better for a 4th round pick. The marketing and PR stuff is waaay more complicated than the previous statement. The merchandising, marketing, PR explanation has layers of complexity in my opinion.

[whichfan]

whichfan, i'm sure you're a decent fellow, an upstanding citizen. You joined theganggreen last month, have 287 posts and are obviously TiT's #1 fan. I hope you have a happy and healthy life and I wish you the best. I also hope you lose your fingers so i don't have to read the crap you post on this board ever again.

Welcome to the forum, now get the fuck out!
:jets:

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[VanderbiltJets]

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Despite your assertion, anger and frustration are caused by many different reasons other than jealousy and intimidation.

[Demosthenes9]

FWIW, with regards to the Wildcat:

From Wiki:

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The wildcat formation made an appearance in 1998, when Minnesota Vikings' offensive coordinator Brian Billick began employing formations where QB Randall Cunningham lined-up as a wide receiver and third-down specialist David Palmer took the direct snap from the center with the option to pass or run.[14][15]

In the 1998 NFC Championship, with 7:58 to go in the third quarter, on a 2nd and 5 play, the Atlanta Falcons deployed quarterback Chris Chandler wide left as a receiver while receiver Tim Dwight took a direct snap and ran 20 yards for a first down.[16]

In a December 24, 2006 game between the Carolina Panthers and Atlanta Falcons, the Panthers, because of a quarterback injury, deployed a formation without a quarterback and snapped the ball directly to running back DeAngelo Williams.[17] The Panthers ran the ball—mostly in this formation—for the first twelve plays of the opening drive, and ran the ball 52 times, with only 7 passing plays. The offensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers at the time, Dan Henning, later developed this concept into the wildcat as the offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins.[citation needed]

Relying on the experience of quarterbacks coach David Lee who had run the scheme at Arkansas, the 2008 Miami Dolphins implemented the wildcat offense beginning in the third game of the 2008 season with great success, instigating a wider trend throughout the NFL.[18][19] The Dolphins started the wildcat trend in the NFL lining up either running back Ronnie Brown (in most cases) or Ricky Williams to take a shotgun snap with the option of handing off, running, or throwing. Through eleven games, the wildcat averaged over seven yards per play for the Dolphins. "It could be the single wing, it could be the Delaware split buck business that they used to do," Dolphins offensive coordinator Dan Henning said. "It comes from all of that."[20] On September 21, 2008, the Miami Dolphins used the wildcat offense against the New England Patriots on six plays, which produced 5 touchdowns (four rushing and one passing—from Ronnie Brown himself) in a 38–13 upset victory

[whichfan]

Yeah, I know. Like I said, it's not a new concept and it dates further back than even that. Like I said, the concept is older than dirt. But you have to look outside Wikipedia.

Look familiar?
3FmoT1RKPhs

Football is and has always been an evolving sport and the offenses and strategies designed have been just as much about the talent and players you had, as it was about the vision of the coaches. The term "conventional NFL offense" only came about because of stagnation, especially at the quarterback position where NFL players became athletic freaks at every other position EXCEPT quarterback. But even then there was hardly such a thing and there were probably multiple different "conventional NFL offenses" running all with some sort of variation to take advantage of the players they have. The wildcat is just a formation anyway, and when you plan on using it extensively, you're not just going to run the wildcat. You're going to run the spread option or some other variation. Tebow's most likely going to run the spread option here and will, at times, run the wildcat out of the spread option. The Wildcat, is far too limited to run for an entire season for 20 snaps a game and definitely limits Tebow.

And chances are if Sporano has any innovation in him, he will go beyond that. Because Tim has an inherent advantage over any other NFL dual russ/pass QB with his running style and durability.

Even with guys like Newton, there are certain things the Panthers are very careful about implementing because of the way he runs. With Vick, RG3, and Young, they're even more careful. They still have to take the safety of their QB into consideration. You don't have to be as cautious with Tebow, because while he may have not learned how to pass like a pure pocket passer, he did learn how to run like a full back.

[74Mangold]

Following the principle that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and knowing the Jets as we do, the simplest explanation is this was a Woody Johnson Special, and designed to distract from the Giants, again, winning the SB, to also get some more interest in unsold psl's from Tebots, to sell merchandise, to most of all remain "relevant" in the NYC market, and also because Woody quite obviously is an attention whore who knows less about football than my dog.

The question "what were they thinking?" is not the real question. What they were thinking is what Woody was thinking.

The real question is how long do Jet fans have to put up with Woody.

If I were making an ESPN top plays list of Big Blockerisms, this post would be in the running for #1. With you that's saying something.

This is pure poetry. It's a fairy tale. How can it be? You reference Occam's Razor out of the clear blue sky, and then you go on to claim that by far the most complicated explanation is in fact the simplest one. The perfect opposite of what you were claiming. I'm giggling through and through.

"Big Blocker" - (Verb.) To think your head is your ass.

[Slap]

And chances are if Sporano has any innovation in him, he will go beyond that. Because Tim has an inherent advantage over any other NFL dual russ/pass QB with his running style and durability.

Even with guys like Newton, there are certain things the Panthers are very careful about implementing because of the way he runs. With Vick, RG3, and Young, they're even more careful. They still have to take the safety of their QB into consideration. You don't have to be as cautious with Tebow, because while he may have not learned how to pass like a pure pocket passer, he did learn how to run like a full back.

You're living in Fantasyland. Tebow's durability enabled him to last an entire 13 games before New England injured him and ended his season. Wilfork and Ninkovich left him with an injured right shoulder, torn rib cartilage and the ever popular bruising around his lung. There's no way he would have played in the AFC championship game if the Broncos would have advanced and God knows what Baltimore would have done to him in that game.

Of course, advancing another week wasn't a possibility, largely because Tebow was 9-26 for 136 yards and a fumble against New England. He managed 13 yards on five carries. This against a defense that finished 18th and points allowed and 31st in yardage allowed. A team that allowed a staggering 4703 yards passing, also 31st in the league.

Running through a defensive back in the open field doesn't mean you're a fullback. That position is thankless enough without this ridiculous comparison. Pound for pound, fullbacks are generally among the physically toughest men on any football team. Tebow wouldn't last three weeks doing all the dirty work required of that job.

Instead of churning out 18 posts a day of breathless fanboy fantasies, why don't you consider calming the fuck down?

[Demosthenes9]

You're living in Fantasyland. Tebow's durability enabled him to last an entire 13 games before New England injured him and ended his season. Wilfork and Ninkovich left him with an injured right shoulder, torn rib cartilage and the ever popular bruising around his lung. There's no way he would have played in the AFC championship game if the Broncos would have advanced and God knows what Baltimore would have done to him in that game.

Of course, advancing another week wasn't a possibility, largely because Tebow was 9-26 for 136 yards and a fumble against New England. He managed 13 yards on five carries. This against a defense that finished 18th and points allowed and 31st in yardage allowed. A team that allowed a staggering 4703 yards passing, also 31st in the league.

Running through a defensive back in the open field doesn't mean you're a fullback. That position is thankless enough without this ridiculous comparison. Pound for pound, fullbacks are generally among the physically toughest men on any football team. Tebow wouldn't last three weeks doing all the dirty work required of that job.

Instead of churning out 18 posts a day of breathless fanboy fantasies, why don't you consider calming the fuck down?

Last I checked, fullbacks usually don't stand in a pocket, hoping to be protected by the likes of Orlando Franklin, who's sole purpose in life seems to be getting blown up by DE's and LB's, giving up sacks.

Pound for pound, Tebow IS one of the toughest guys on the field and anyone who has a shred of knowledge will tell you that. The guy is a horse.

[whichfan]

You're living in Fantasyland. Tebow's durability enabled him to last an entire 13 games before New England injured him and ended his season. Wilfork and Ninkovich left him with an injured right shoulder, torn rib cartilage and the ever popular bruising around his lung. There's no way he would have played in the AFC championship game if the Broncos would have advanced and God knows what Baltimore would have done to him in that game.

Of course, advancing another week wasn't a possibility, largely because Tebow was 9-26 for 136 yards and a fumble against New England. He managed 13 yards on five carries. This against a defense that finished 18th and points allowed and 31st in yardage allowed. A team that allowed a staggering 4703 yards passing, also 31st in the league.

Running through a defensive back in the open field doesn't mean you're a fullback. That position is thankless enough without this ridiculous comparison. Pound for pound, fullbacks are generally among the physically toughest men on any football team. Tebow wouldn't last three weeks doing all the dirty work required of that job.

Instead of churning out 18 posts a day of breathless fanboy fantasies, why don't you consider calming the fuck down?

Are you talking about the defense that ended up #2 in yards per point efficiency in the league, with the #2 defending starting field position, 11th in points allowed(good defenses don't stop playing after 16 games), #4 in takeaways, kept Denver to 10 points, Ravens to 17 and Giants to 21 points in the SuperBowl for an average of 16 points per game in the postseason which is good enough to rank #3 in the NFL and got enough stops in order for the offense to outscore their opponents by 171 points, also #3 in the NFL?

That defense? And that team?

I got a better idea. Why don't you consider learning football, start understandings stats that matter, and then maybe you'll develop a sense and an idea of what is important in football and you can stop confusing yourself with numbers and statistics when it comes sports.

Or you can continue spouting the most meaningless stats that have nothing to do with how good or bad a defense is or with winning or losing a football game. Hey, while you are at it, go ahead and start tracking how many kilometers a soccer defense gives up, how many miles a hockey team allows players to skate around the ring, and how many times a basketball team dribbles the ball.

And I didn't say Tebow was a fullback, I said he runs and is built like a fullback and if your understanding of Tebow and his rushing ability is the same as being able to judge the Patriots defense, or knowing which stats are important for rating defenses, than I can completely understand where you're coming from and not really worth debating any further with you.

[VanderbiltJets]

I got a better idea. Why don't you consider learning football, start understandings stats that matter, and then maybe you'll develop a sense and an idea of what is important in football and you can stop confusing yourself with numbers and statistics when it comes sports.

Or you can continue spouting the most meaningless stats that have nothing to do with how good or bad a defense is or with winning or losing a football game. Hey, while you are at it, go ahead and start tracking how many kilometers a soccer defense gives up, how many miles a hockey team allows players to skate around the ring, and how many times a basketball team dribbles the ball.

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[Slap]

Are you talking about the defense that ended up #2 in yards per point efficiency in the league, with the #2 defending starting field position, 11th in points allowed(good defenses don't stop playing after 16 games), #4 in takeaways, kept Denver to 10 points, Ravens to 17 and Giants to 21 points in the SuperBowl for an average of 16 points per game in the postseason which is good enough to rank #3 in the NFL and got enough stops in order for the offense to outscore their opponents by 171 points, also #3 in the NFL?

That defense? And that team?

I got a better idea. Why don't you consider learning football, start understandings stats that matter, and then maybe you'll develop a sense and an idea of what is important in football and you can stop confusing yourself with numbers and statistics when it comes sports.

Or you can continue spouting the most meaningless stats that have nothing to do with how good or bad a defense is or with winning or losing a football game. Hey, while you are at it, go ahead and start tracking how many kilometers a soccer defense gives up, how many miles a hockey team allows players to skate around the ring, and how many times a basketball team dribbles the ball.

And I didn't say Tebow was a fullback, I said he runs and is built like a fullback and if your understanding of Tebow and his rushing ability is the same as being able to judge the Patriots defense, or knowing which stats are important for rating defenses, than I can completely understand where you're coming from and not really worth debating any further with you.

I say you should take his dick out of your mouth and stop letting the clueless assholes from Football Outsiders dictate your specious arguments. It makes you look even dumber and more grasping than the average Tetard.

[Slap]

Last I checked, fullbacks usually don't stand in a pocket, hoping to be protected by the likes of Orlando Franklin, who's sole purpose in life seems to be getting blown up by DE's and LB's, giving up sacks.

Pound for pound, Tebow IS one of the toughest guys on the field and anyone who has a shred of knowledge will tell you that. The guy is a horse.

Orlando Franklin played very well as a rookie offensive tackle. He's a dominant run blocker with a mean streak. Sadly, he had to protect a guy who has no pocket presence and is only capable of locking onto his primary receiver and staring him down while he delivers a wobbly Kilmeresque duck that generally misses by ten feet.

[whichfan]

Please don't talk to me about Football Outsiders. I could give a rats ass about fantasy football which is about the level of respect I have for DVOA. I have common sense, 4th grade math ability.

But it may do you some good. It makes you look like you have 0 brains if you still believe the Patriots have anything other than a top NFL defense. Maybe you should sent Bill Belichick an email and alert him on the fact his defense gave up yards so he should stop loading up on offense. Because it doesn't appear like they give a fuck.

In all your years of using your yards stats did you ever bother to stop and wonder how come it never translates to winning?

[VanderbiltJets]

I say you should take his dick out of your mouth and stop letting the clueless assholes from Football Outsiders dictate your specious arguments. It makes you look even dumber and more grasping than the average Tetard.

The issue here isn't whether or not they're bad, but exactly how bad they are. While there's consensus about their ineptness (and I don't think anyone disagrees), we need to decipher exactly how degenerate they are.

[Bannon]

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Bookmarked. Thanks for the link. :up:

I think they should go pack to teaching pure reason in public schools. The internet has opened up a form of conversation that had died away, but the vast majority of Americans are unable to forum a coherent thought, much less a coherent argument.

[Demosthenes9]

Orlando Franklin played very well as a rookie offensive tackle. He's a dominant run blocker with a mean streak. Sadly, he had to protect a guy who has no pocket presence and is only capable of locking onto his primary receiver and staring him down while he delivers a wobbly Kilmeresque duck that generally misses by ten feet.

He's a traditional right tackle who had very questionable pass blocking skills, especially with being the blind side protector for a left handed QB.

Go watch the Pats game, they blew him up repeatedly.

[Slap]

He's a traditional right tackle who had very questionable pass blocking skills, especially with being the blind side protector for a left handed QB.

Go watch the Pats game, they blew him up repeatedly.

I'll go rewatch that game right after I take a cheese grater to my dick.

[#1 Jets Fan]

Please don't talk to me about Football Outsiders. I could give a rats ass about fantasy football which is about the level of respect I have for DVOA. I have common sense, 4th grade math ability.

But it may do you some good. It makes you look like you have 0 brains if you still believe the Patriots have anything other than a top NFL defense. Maybe you should sent Bill Belichick an email and alert him on the fact his defense gave up yards so he should stop loading up on offense. Because it doesn't appear like they give a fuck.

In all your years of using your yards stats did you ever bother to stop and wonder how come it never translates to winning?U just made it official u dont have any knowledge about football. They where rank 31st in the NFL and could not stop Giants in that 95 yard drive to win the SUPER BOWL. Damn dude u really are in love with Tebow.

[Demosthenes9]

I'll go rewatch that game right after I take a cheese grater to my dick.

Whatever works for ya.

[whichfan]

U just made it official u dont have any knowledge about football. They where rank 31st in the NFL and could not stop Giants in that 95 yard drive to win the SUPER BOWL. Damn dude u really are in love with Tebow.

In what, yards?

Let me know when that becomes the stat that actually measures defenses(let alone total defense). When we start determining winners in football based on the number of yards given up or gained you might come close to whatever your interpretation is of football actually being right.

In the mean time, once again, learn more about the sport you love so much. Particularly, try to understand why it's no different than any other sport, and that what matters most, like any other competitive sport on the planet, is scoring. Points. Gained or allowed. That's what PRIMARILY decides how good an offense or defense is.

It amazes me how misunderstood football is and how just deeply ingrained brainwashing is in the general public. You are willing to swear up and down by that yards measurements, in spite of logic, common sense, and the sick amount of evidence to the contrary.

You know they ranked 11th in points allowed: To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

You know they are ranked 31st in yards. You know we count points in football.

But everytime you have to pick a stat to measure something in football you will pick yards! It's a sub-stat. It's secondary. It will never supersede what the points categories say.

Do. You. Understand?

And it does not even measure the team's total defense.

[#1 Jets Fan]

In what, yards?

Let me know when that becomes the stat that actually measures defenses(let alone total defense). When we start determining winners in football based on the number of yards given up or gained you might come close to whatever your interpretation is of football actually being right.

In the mean time, once again, learn more about the sport you love so much. Particularly, try to understand why it's no different than any other sport, and that what matters most, like any other competitive sport on the planet, is scoring. Points. Gained or allowed. That's what PRIMARILY decides how good an offense or defense is.

It amazes me how misunderstood football is and how just deeply ingrained brainwashing is in the general public. You are willing to swear up and down by that yards measurements, in spite of logic, common sense, and the sick amount of evidence to the contrary.

You know they ranked 11th in points allowed: To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

You know they are ranked 31st in yards. You know we count points in football.

But everytime you have to pick a stat to measure something in football you will pick yards! It's a sub-stat. It's secondary. It will never supersede what the points categories say.

Do. You. Understand?

And it does not even measure the team's total defense.
Dude I see there no point in talking to u when it comes to Tebow. Ok we all see it ur in love with Tebow and good luck maybe u will become Gaybow next lover.

[Slap]

He posts 18 times a day about Tebow on this forum alone. That doesn't account for the other internet forums he frequents or the hand written, tear stained love letters he sends him.

[GRNYT]

He posts 18 times a day about Tebow on this forum alone. That doesn't account for the other internet forums he frequents or the hand written, tear stained love letters he sends him.
this guy claiming he's an atheist...i dunno

i see a combination of an eggheady know-it-all and a closet bible-thumper

[GRNYT]

Bookmarked. Thanks for the link. :up:

I think they should go pack to teaching pure reason in public schools. The internet has opened up a form of conversation that had died away, but the vast majority of Americans are unable to forum a coherent thought, much less a coherent argument.
"pure" reason is wonderful for ivory towers and mr spock but has little to do with reality

[Fightin'JetTitan]

In ALL my years being a JET-JUNKIE, never EVER have I've been so totally PISSED THE EFF OFF by ANY Jet mgmt, player-personnel acquisition/trade/draft pick/waiver claim, etc., than this decision to bring this "Te-Blow(me)" crap to my JETS!!!!

All I gotta' say is "Mark, BRING IT"!!! Do ALL ya' gotta' do to keep this fool on the sidelines holding a clipboard for the ENTIRE SEASON!

I believe in U Mark; This is YOUR YEAR..............!

Get it DONE & get it DONE RIGHT!

'Nuff said!

[74Mangold]

who cares what old men are saying? who cares what other people say? If anything it unites the locker room in and us versus the world mentality.

Although I will admit I like your writing style and the way you wrote the post, I think the concerns are unfounded.

People that are trying to sell Pee Ess Ells care. People that want to develop the Jets brand, and all that entails care.

Do you see why that makes me have concerns?

[74Mangold]

They find common ground. They join forces.

As an SOJ fan who thinks Sanchez has allot to prove, if anything this move makes me more supportive of Sanchez.

While I may think he can't do it and ultimately we are doomed, I'm still looking to put the end of days out a few years.

This is one of the sharper replies in the thread. Wish I had noticed it before, this is the type of discussion I was hoping for.

The unspoken reasoning behind your post is similar to the unspoken implication of mine. It's the reason I went back and added that picture of Gosling in Drive to the end of the OP.

The world is about to bring everything they've got to throw at Sanchez. They're going to try to snuff out his existence. It is known.

But there he sits, hands firmly on the wheel. Enemies in his sights. If his nerves are as strong as he showed them to be in the playoffs; if his actions are swift and true, this will be a game changer. If he comes out guns blazing he'll quash all but the most rabid of the dissenters. He'll permanently solidify himself as the franchise Qb we've been seeking for decades. Not to mention he'll have the added offensive weaponry of his Jesus loving homeboy at his disposal.

I feel this is the true heart of the issue. It isn't Woody and his PSL's. It isn't Tanny and his flair for the dramatic. This is about the top brass pushing all their chips to the center on Sanchez.

They gave him three years to get his feet wet. They gave him the head of the dread-beast named Schotty. They love what they've seen so far. How can they not? 2 AFCCG's and one injury/OL stunted season for an underaged and under-experienced Qb? You'd have to be a Jet fan to not be impressed.

Now they've brought in the last fail-safe. They've put his feet to the fire. They need the results now before the tide turns, and they believe he's ready to give them those results.

For all of the controversy this move will create, it's really just adding a dynamic weapon to the roster that most teams couldn't incorporate themselves. All Sanchez has to do is put Tebow in his place.

If Tebow replaces Sanchez, Tanny will have bet the house and lost on the California kid. To bring Tebow in here, he's betting at least as much on Sanchez as Tebow. It's really much, much more though in my opinion. He could have stood pat with unknown backups to give him one more year. He didn't.

They're willing to risk unparalleled cluster-fuck chaos to push Sanchez and bring in a big improvement to one of the pieces of the puzzle.

The more I look, the more I see this move as an act of faith in Mark Sanchez.

[Demosthenes9]

This is one of the sharper replies in the thread. Wish I had noticed it before, this is the type of discussion I was hoping for.

The unspoken reasoning behind your post is similar to the unspoken implication of mine. It's the reason I went back and added that picture of Gosling in Drive to the end of the OP.

The world is about to bring everything they've got to throw at Sanchez. They're going to try to snuff out his existence. It is known.

But there he sits, hands firmly on the wheel. Enemies in his sights. If his nerves are as strong as he showed them to be in the playoffs; if his actions are swift and true, this will be a game changer. If he comes out guns blazing he'll quash all but the most rabid of the dissenters. He'll permanently solidify himself as the franchise Qb we've been seeking for decades. Not to mention he'll have the added offensive weaponry of his Jesus loving homeboy at his disposal.

I feel this is the true heart of the issue. It isn't Woody and his PSL's. It isn't Tanny and his flair for the dramatic. This is about the top brass pushing all their chips to the center on Sanchez.

They gave him three years to get his feet wet. They gave him the head of the dread-beast named Schotty. They love what they've seen so far. How can they not? 2 AFCCG's and one injury/OL stunted season for an underaged and under-experienced Qb? You'd have to be a Jet fan to not be impressed.

Now they've brought in the last fail-safe. They've put his feet to the fire. They need the results now before the tide turns, and they believe he's ready to give them those results.

For all of the controversy this move will create, it's really just adding a dynamic weapon to the roster that most teams couldn't incorporate themselves. All Sanchez has to do is put Tebow in his place.

If Tebow replaces Sanchez, Tanny will have bet the house and lost on the California kid. To bring Tebow in here, he's betting at least as much on Sanchez as Tebow. It's really much, much more though in my opinion. He could have stood pat with unknown backups to give him one more year. He didn't.

They're willing to risk unparalleled cluster-fuck chaos to push Sanchez and bring in a big improvement to one of the pieces of the puzzle.

The more I look, the more I see this move as an act of faith in Mark Sanchez.


Might come as a surprise, but I agree. Back on the Denver boards after the season ended, there was discussion about what QBs to bring in to compete with Tebow for the starting slot.

I took the position that, with a YOUNG QB, you don't want competition. Give him the reins, let him make mistakes and learn from them. Have a vet in place to mentor him possibly, or just be a non-threatening backup. You have to give a young QB the full backing of the team, coaches and FO and you HAVE to give him time to develop.

Somewhere in the process, that "young" QB stops being "young". At that point, it's time to take the next step, remove the training wheels, and bring someone in who WILL provide competition, pushing him to become even better.

I think that Rex and company decided that Sanchez has reached that point.

[74Mangold]

Might come as a surprise, but I agree. Back on the Denver boards after the season ended, there was discussion about what QBs to bring in to compete with Tebow for the starting slot.

I took the position that, with a YOUNG QB, you don't want competition. Give him the reins, let him make mistakes and learn from them. Have a vet in place to mentor him possibly, or just be a non-threatening backup. You have to give a young QB the full backing of the team, coaches and FO and you HAVE to give him time to develop.

Somewhere in the process, that "young" QB stops being "young". At that point, it's time to take the next step, remove the training wheels, and bring someone in who WILL provide competition, pushing him to become even better.

I think that Rex and company decided that Sanchez has reached that point.

That they were willing to provide that true competition from one of the most popular and polarizing figures in all of sport shows the amount of confidence this move is oozing with. It's palpable.

That the rest of the world not only sees this move as the opposite, but even feels that divergent assessment is justified shows the stupidity of your average humanoid.

[Catt_County]

This is one of the sharper replies in the thread. Wish I had noticed it before, this is the type of discussion I was hoping for.

The unspoken reasoning behind your post is similar to the unspoken implication of mine. It's the reason I went back and added that picture of Gosling in Drive to the end of the OP.

The world is about to bring everything they've got to throw at Sanchez. They're going to try to snuff out his existence. It is known.

But there he sits, hands firmly on the wheel. Enemies in his sights. If his nerves are as strong as he showed them to be in the playoffs; if his actions are swift and true, this will be a game changer. If he comes out guns blazing he'll quash all but the most rabid of the dissenters. He'll permanently solidify himself as the franchise Qb we've been seeking for decades. Not to mention he'll have the added offensive weaponry of his Jesus loving homeboy at his disposal.

I feel this is the true heart of the issue. It isn't Woody and his PSL's. It isn't Tanny and his flair for the dramatic. This is about the top brass pushing all their chips to the center on Sanchez.

They gave him three years to get his feet wet. They gave him the head of the dread-beast named Schotty. They love what they've seen so far. How can they not? 2 AFCCG's and one injury/OL stunted season for an underaged and under-experienced Qb? You'd have to be a Jet fan to not be impressed.

Now they've brought in the last fail-safe. They've put his feet to the fire. They need the results now before the tide turns, and they believe he's ready to give them those results.

For all of the controversy this move will create, it's really just adding a dynamic weapon to the roster that most teams couldn't incorporate themselves. All Sanchez has to do is put Tebow in his place.

If Tebow replaces Sanchez, Tanny will have bet the house and lost on the California kid. To bring Tebow in here, he's betting at least as much on Sanchez as Tebow. It's really much, much more though in my opinion. He could have stood pat with unknown backups to give him one more year. He didn't.

They're willing to risk unparalleled cluster-fuck chaos to push Sanchez and bring in a big improvement to one of the pieces of the puzzle.

The more I look, the more I see this move as an act of faith in Mark Sanchez.

:lol: You're welcome to your opinion, but I think you're full of bullshit.

Tebowmania isn't about somehow pushing Sanchez to improve. It's about your owner wanting to upstage the Super Bowl-winning Gnats and to sell his precious PSLs. That the Jets signed FA Drew Stanton to be Sanchez's backup QB a week before they traded for Tebow is the "smoking gun".

In the myopic vision of Wood Johnson, trading for Tim Tebow was a "win-win" situation. If Sanchez steps up, yay! the Jets are winners. If Sanchez craps the bed, there's Savior Tebow to come in and placate the restless fans. If Savior Tebow can string together some improbable wins, it'll be a great time for everybody but Sanchez, who will just be "collateral damage".

If Savior Tebow craps the bed, then it's all Ryan and Sparano's faults for not properly using the treasure that's Tebow. Again, more collateral damage. Out with Sanchez, Ryan, and Sparano, and in with a new regime ...

[74Mangold]

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

[Slap]

If Savior Tebow craps the bed, then it's all Ryan and Sparano's faults for not properly using the treasure that's Tebow. Again, more collateral damage. Out with Sanchez, Ryan, and Sparano, and in with a new regime ...

This is the Tebow fans default position.

[Demosthenes9]

:lol: You're welcome to your opinion, but I think you're full of bullshit.

Tebowmania isn't about somehow pushing Sanchez to improve. It's about your owner wanting to upstage the Super Bowl-winning Gnats and to sell his precious PSLs. That the Jets signed FA Drew Stanton to be Sanchez's backup QB a week before they traded for Tebow is the "smoking gun".

In the myopic vision of Wood Johnson, trading for Tim Tebow was a "win-win" situation. If Sanchez steps up, yay! the Jets are winners. If Sanchez craps the bed, there's Savior Tebow to come in and placate the restless fans. If Savior Tebow can string together some improbable wins, it'll be a great time for everybody but Sanchez, who will just be "collateral damage".

If Savior Tebow craps the bed, then it's all Ryan and Sparano's faults for not properly using the treasure that's Tebow. Again, more collateral damage. Out with Sanchez, Ryan, and Sparano, and in with a new regime ...

You're welcome to your opinion as well, and guess what ? It's full of shit also. Stanton hasn't shown a thing in the NFL is barely more than a warm body taking up cap space, just so you have someone who is a QB in case Sanchez goes down.

Tebow is an upgrade as a backup QB and also adds another dimension to the offense instead of just walking around and holding a clipboard like Stanton would have.

[VanderbiltJets]

Rex and company decided that Sanchez has reached that point.

This.

The one thing that really puzzles me is, from the coaching staff and front office perspective, at what point do they then decide that Sanchez is "failing" or "struggling" this year to the point of being pulled. Rex clearly has a set opinion and valuation of Sanchez; I just wonder how long the leash is.

[whichfan]

Dude I see there no point in talking to u when it comes to Tebow. Ok we all see it ur in love with Tebow and good luck maybe u will become Gaybow next lover.

My reply had nothing to do with Tebow, but I see you don't actually have a response and there's little reason to try and discuss football with you, when you throw around yards stats as some sort of ultimate measurement. I'm going to help you out.

Order of importance of statistic:

1. Winning.
2. Scoring( Points and Scoring efficiency)
3. Scoring allowed.
4. Turnovers.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
99. Yards stats.

That's how football works. Get off the yards measurements if you ever wanna be anywhere remotely right about football. Or use it appropriately.

Everytime I hear "yes they were ranked 14th (or 11th depending on what you go by) in points allowed BUT ranked 31st in yards and thus they are the 31st worse defense" it makes me want to puke.

There is no "but" and it's the other way around. Backwards logic. Brainwashing.

The truth is yards per game, often referred to as "total defense" is not actually a team's total defense. It's just a sub-category that measures a portion of the team's yards per game. Yards per game, does not measure a team's total defense. It does not supercede points per game and other more important categories. It's not even in the top 3 stats you should be looking at when it comes to defense.

I know you are under the impression that a defense that gives up 1000 yards and 10 points is worse than a defense that gives up 200 yards and 10 points, BUT in real life football, the team with the defense that gave up 1000 yards and 10 points usually wins the football game. LOOK IT UP! Yes it's counterintuitive, but that is reality and if you actually understand the logic of football, it makes a whole lot of sense. Which is why yards is a totally useless category. It only gets half the teams right, if that. In today's NFL you would rather end up with a defense give up 500 yards and 10 points, than a defense that gives up 200 yards and 10 points. That's the NE and GB Packers defenses. There is a reason for this, but you have to actually THINK it through to understand it. And yards category does not explain it. It's a stupid overused stat whose importance has been blown way out of proportion among football fans and the media. Which is why coaches hate answering media questions. They know most of them have no freaking clue what they are actually doing. They can't even get the most simple things right and they wanna talk about things like yards and completion %.

[#1 Jets Fan]

My reply had nothing to do with Tebow, but I see you don't actually have a response and there's little reason to try and discuss football with you, when you throw around yards stats as some sort of ultimate measurement. I'm going to help you out.

Order of importance of statistic:

1. Winning.
2. Scoring( Points and Scoring efficiency)
3. Scoring allowed.
4. Turnovers.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
99. Yards stats.

That's how football works. Get off the yards measurements if you ever wanna be anywhere remotely right about football. Or use it appropriately.

Everytime I hear "yes they were ranked 14th (or 11th depending on what you go by) in points allowed BUT ranked 31st in yards and thus they are the 31st worse defense" it makes me want to puke.

There is no "but" and it's the other way around. Backwards logic. Brainwashing.

The truth is yards per game, often referred to as "total defense" is not actually a team's total defense. It's just a sub-category that measures a portion of the team's yards per game. Yards per game, does not measure a team's total defense. It does not supercede points per game and other more important categories. It's not even in the top 3 stats you should be looking at when it comes to defense.

I know you are under the impression that a defense that gives up 1000 yards and 10 points is worse than a defense that gives up 200 yards and 10 points, BUT in real life football, the team with the defense that gave up 1000 yards and 10 points usually wins the football game. LOOK IT UP! Yes it's counterintuitive, but that is reality and if you actually understand the logic of football, it makes a whole lot of sense. Which is why yards is a totally useless category. It only gets half the teams right, if that. In today's NFL you would rather end up with a defense give up 500 yards and 10 points, than a defense that gives up 200 yards and 10 points. That's the NE and GB Packers defenses. There is a reason for this, but you have to actually THINK it through to understand it. And yards category does not explain it. It's a stupid overused stat whose importance has been blown way out of proportion among football fans and the media. Which is why coaches hate answering media questions. They know most of them have no freaking clue what they are actually doing. They can't even get the most simple things right and they wanna talk about things like yards and completion %.Show me a team that won a SB with a 20th or worst D?

[whichfan]

Show me a team that won a SB with a 20th or worst D?

The "20th worst D"?

This is the part you can't comprehend. The MAIN statistical category you use for defining a team's total defense is WRONG. Yards per game does not determine the "worst D". The biggest secret in football is the stat labeled "total defense" by the NFL has nothing or very little to do with a team's actual TOTAL defense.


Football logic 101.

1. In football we first have possessions.
2. After possession, we have plays. Your plays are a result of your possession.(each team gets 4 downs).
3. After plays we have yards. Yards are the result of your plays. More important than plays.
4. After yards we have POINTS. Your POINTS are the result of your yards gained, or field position.
5. After points we have wins. We count the points, to determine the winnner. This is more important than yards.

A team's defense primary job is to stop opponents from scoring POINTS, more specifically, touchdowns. Not to prevent them from gaining yards.

Furthermore, a team's actual total defense is made up of:
your defensive unit
your special teams defense
your offensive unit, when they also play defense, post a turnover.

Their combined work is your team's true total defense. Their combined ability to stop opponents from scoring points. Not only is the yards category at #4 on that list, but it doesn't even represent a team's total defense. Most teams give up almost double the field position the actual yards per game category says it does through special teams defense and by their offense after a turnover. These yards are NOT kept track of by that category.

In fact it almost NEVER gets it right. So whatever defense you believe to be "worst" by looking at your yards per game ranking is probably wrong. You might be lucky and some years it might actually match up where the best ranked defensive unit in yards per game also happens to be a part of the best defensive team in the NFL. Most of the time, it doesn't.

And to answer your question? The Giants. Last year. If you wanna go off season stats, they were 25th in points allowed, 21st in yards per drive, 19th in starting defensive field position and 14th in scoring allowed efficiency.

Yes, the team with the worse defense and the worse offense statitistically for the season, won the Super Bow. And the other biggest bullshit myth? "Defense wins championships". The game doesn't change whether you play the Super Bowl, Championship games, playoffs, regular season, preseason, college, highschool...doesn't freaking matter. In fact, if you go back to the beginning of time, offensive efficiency still comes out ahead. The most Championships or SuperBowls were won by the team who had the better scoring efficiency in the game. Not defense.

[VanderbiltJets]

1. Winning.

Stats include playoffs
WPA: 23rd (.18)
WPA/Game: 23rd (.01)
EPA: 37th (-26.6)
EPA/Play: 34th (-.05)
Success Rate: 36th (38.9%)

...

[Catt_County]

You're welcome to your opinion as well, and guess what ? It's full of shit also. Stanton hasn't shown a thing in the NFL is barely more than a warm body taking up cap space, just so you have someone who is a QB in case Sanchez goes down.

Tebow is an upgrade as a backup QB and also adds another dimension to the offense instead of just walking around and holding a clipboard like Stanton would have.

Every team signs a veteran FA QB to backup their starter only to trade for another backup QB a week later.

Oh, yeah, and every team has a press conference to announce they traded for said backup QB.

[alleycat9]

Every team signs a veteran FA QB to backup their starter only to trade for another backup QB a week later.

Oh, yeah, and every team has a press conference to announce they traded for said backup QB.

i have to agree with you... stanton is definitely the smoking gun. its amazing that there are other jets fans who have twisted reality so far that they think that this has nothing to do with back pages and psl sales. that they actually think the jets did this because it is a sound football move.

its disturbing.

[Demosthenes9]

Every team signs a veteran FA QB to backup their starter only to trade for another backup QB a week later.

Oh, yeah, and every team has a press conference to announce they traded for said backup QB.

Actually, that was just a domino effect. Say that Manning decided to go to San Fran, you don't think other teams would have jumped at Alex Smith, even if they had signed a scrub backup QB already ?

I mean, it would be one thing if the Jets had signed Flynn or Orton and then Tebow. But that's not the case.

[Demosthenes9]

i have to agree with you... stanton is definitely the smoking gun. its amazing that there are other jets fans who have twisted reality so far that they think that this has nothing to do with back pages and psl sales. that they actually think the jets did this because it is a sound football move.

its disturbing.

And saddens me to see that some people can't see the rather clear "football reasons" for grabbing Tebow, especially a team that runs the Wildcat and believes in the philosophy behind it.

[74Mangold]

The "20th worst D"?

This is the part you can't comprehend. The MAIN statistical category you use for defining a team's total defense is WRONG. Yards per game does not determine the "worst D". The biggest secret in football is the stat labeled "total defense" by the NFL has nothing or very little to do with a team's actual TOTAL defense.


Football logic 101.

1. In football we first have possessions.
2. After possession, we have plays. Your plays are a result of your possession.(each team gets 4 downs).
3. After plays we have yards. Yards are the result of your plays. More important than plays.
4. After yards we have POINTS. Your POINTS are the result of your yards gained, or field position.
5. After points we have wins. We count the points, to determine the winnner. This is more important than yards.

A team's defense primary job is to stop opponents from scoring POINTS, more specifically, touchdowns. Not to prevent them from gaining yards.

Furthermore, a team's actual total defense is made up of:
your defensive unit
your special teams defense
your offensive unit, when they also play defense, post a turnover.

Their combined work is your team's true total defense. Their combined ability to stop opponents from scoring points. Not only is the yards category at #4 on that list, but it doesn't even represent a team's total defense. Most teams give up almost double the field position the actual yards per game category says it does through special teams defense and by their offense after a turnover. These yards are NOT kept track of by that category.

In fact it almost NEVER gets it right. So whatever defense you believe to be "worst" by looking at your yards per game ranking is probably wrong. You might be lucky and some years it might actually match up where the best ranked defensive unit in yards per game also happens to be a part of the best defensive team in the NFL. Most of the time, it doesn't.

And to answer your question? The Giants. Last year. If you wanna go off season stats, they were 25th in points allowed, 21st in yards per drive, 19th in starting defensive field position and 14th in scoring allowed efficiency.

Yes, the team with the worse defense and the worse offense statitistically for the season, won the Super Bow. And the other biggest bullshit myth? "Defense wins championships". The game doesn't change whether you play the Super Bowl, Championship games, playoffs, regular season, preseason, college, highschool...doesn't freaking matter. In fact, if you go back to the beginning of time, offensive efficiency still comes out ahead. The most Championships or SuperBowls were won by the team who had the better scoring efficiency in the game. Not defense.



You should consider becoming a politician. You use the truth to tell lies....decently well. Most politicians use the truth to lies pretty terribly, (although it is certainly their primary objective in life), so it's not unreasonable to assume you have some crossover potential a la Hayden Smith.

Defensive scoring allowed efficiency, while an important indicator of a defense's true ability, is not a be all end all stat. It isn't even close to being one. It's highly disputable that it's even close to the most important one.

You take the truth that points and points allowed are the most important factors in the game. Then you pretend like you're talking about the same thing while you change the terms being discussed, and voilah, you've created yet another piece of bullshit drivel to punish my eyes with.

It's dependent on WAY too many outside variables to just plug and play it into the fantasy world that you're trying to create. The one with Tebow frolicking with Tinky Winky and Barney in GOAT heaven.

Defensive scoring efficiency depends strongly on the offense. If you have a piece of shit offense that never pins teams deep and starts off the majority of their defensive drives in a deep hole, obviously your scoring allowed efficiency is going to take a nose dive for no fault of the defense.

Luck has a lot to do with it as well. There just aren't that many drives that get inside the opponent's 20 yard line in a season. If your team comes up with a few more stops/field goals/turnovers than it really was supposed to throughout the season, a mediocre defense can post excellent stats in this area quite easily.

The Pats defense is shit. Green Bay's ain't so hot. You claim they're underrated defenses at the least. Really you're claiming that they're amazing defenses because they do well in scoring efficiency. But you're retarded. Their offenses' perennial prowess pad their stats like clockwork. Score a touchdown, pin deep. Get walked all over. Get a 3 and out or field goal at some point during the 80 yard march because hey, you have to stop them sometime. Look much better on scoring allowed efficiency than you really are.

Your arguments are weak and full of holes. All day. Every day. Go find another thread to troll in. Please.

[GRNYT]

You should consider becoming a politician. You use the truth to tell lies....decently well. Most politicians use the truth to lies pretty terribly, (although it is certainly their primary objective in life), so it's not unreasonable to assume you have some crossover potential a la Hayden Smith.

Defensive scoring allowed efficiency, while an important indicator of a defense's true ability, is not a be all end all stat. It isn't even close to being one. It's highly disputable that it's even close to the most important one.

You take the truth that points and points allowed are the most important factors in the game. Then you pretend like you're talking about the same thing while you change the terms being discussed, and voilah, you've created yet another piece of bullshit drivel to punish my eyes with.

It's dependent on WAY too many outside variables to just plug and play it into the fantasy world that you're trying to create. The one with Tebow frolicking with Tinky Winky and Barney in GOAT heaven.

Defensive scoring efficiency depends strongly on the offense. If you have a piece of shit offense that never pins teams deep and starts off the majority of their defensive drives in a deep hole, obviously your scoring allowed efficiency is going to take a nose dive for no fault of the defense.

Luck has a lot to do with it as well. There just aren't that many drives that get inside the opponent's 20 yard line in a season. If your team comes up with a few more stops/field goals/turnovers than it really was supposed to throughout the season, a mediocre defense can post excellent stats in this area quite easily.

The Pats defense is shit. Green Bay's ain't so hot. You claim they're underrated defenses at the least. Really you're claiming that they're amazing defenses because they do well in scoring efficiency. But you're retarded. Their offenses' perennial prowess pad their stats like clockwork. Score a touchdown, pin deep. Get walked all over. Get a 3 and out or field goal at some point during the 80 yard march because hey, you have to stop them sometime. Look much better on scoring allowed efficiency than you really are.

Your arguments are weak and full of holes. All day. Every day. Go find another thread to troll in. Please.
what he said...

[sanchize]

Every team signs a veteran FA QB to backup their starter only to trade for another backup QB a week later.

Oh, yeah, and every team has a press conference to announce they traded for said backup QB.

Cause every team signs there 29 year old quarterback who has won 5 games and hasn't played well his entire career to a huge contract. I mean does Ralph Wilson not want to do anything besides sell tickets and sell PSL's. You sir suck dick.

As to the responses to the other Tebow comments. I think Sanchez will be better than last season, but if he isn't and Tebow beats him out by being the better quarterback and helps the Jets win the Super Bowl what real Jets fan will say "Shit I don't even care because its not Mark Sanchez". Bottom Line Sanchez produces and leads the team to victories or rides the pine and maybe Tebow is the guy. Or maybe the guy is a freshman in High School. Who really knows? Quite frankly anyone can come in and get us a Super Bowl for all I care.

[Jake]

I can't wait to see Tebow run over Patsy DBs out of the seminole offense. :beer:

[Big Blocker]

If I were making an ESPN top plays list of Big Blockerisms, this post would be in the running for #1. With you that's saying something.

This is pure poetry. It's a fairy tale. How can it be? You reference Occam's Razor out of the clear blue sky, and then you go on to claim that by far the most complicated explanation is in fact the simplest one. The perfect opposite of what you were claiming. I'm giggling through and through.

"Big Blocker" - (Verb.) To think your head is your ass.

Listen, Holley, saying it was Woody's decision, knowing who Woody is and how he operates, IS a simple explanation. I know that girls love to giggle, too.

I am not sure why you feel the need to engage in personal attacks when I criticize Woody, but seeing as how you are a generally shitty poster, I am happy to make you gigle, sister.

[Catt_County]

Cause every team signs there 29 year old quarterback who has won 5 games and hasn't played well his entire career to a huge contract. I mean does Ralph Wilson not want to do anything besides sell tickets and sell PSL's. You sir suck dick.

I have never denied that my Bills have had a crappy team in past seasons. Hopefully, "had" is the operative word since, unlike the Jests, they have been busy this off-season attempting to fix their worse problems rather than wasting draft picks and cap space on a publicity move.

Secondly, the Bills' "plan" for selling more season tix (they don't do PSLs) is to build a winning football team with sound football moves, not attempt to fool fans with publicity stunts. Signing Mario Williams will make the Bills pass rush better, and it has already increased season ticket sales.

[74Mangold]

Listen, Holley, saying it was Woody's decision, knowing who Woody is and how he operates, IS a simple explanation. I know that girls love to giggle, too.

I am not sure why you feel the need to engage in personal attacks when I criticize Woody, but seeing as how you are a generally shitty poster, I am happy to make you gigle, sister.

I've been waiting for you to make that exact post since I made mine. Guess it took quite a while to let it percolate and figure out what to say?

Sadly, I don't have the time right now to adequately explain the logic 101 concepts that you weren't able to grasp before you opened the textbook to the end and found Occam's razor.

Don't worry though. I'll spell it out for you later tonight. Thanks for playing.

Btw, I don't really know how else to reply to the things you say sometimes. Anything but the blunt truth just seems to be downplaying the hilarity of your logic at times. I really try to just skip over your posts as much as I can to avoid this.

I don't hate you. It's just your mouth.

[Big Blocker]

I've been waiting for you to make that exact post since I made mine. Guess it took quite a while to let it percolate and figure out what to say?

Sadly, I don't have the time right now to adequately explain the logic 101 concepts that you weren't able to grasp before you opened the textbook to the end and found Occam's razor.

Don't worry though. I'll spell it out for you later tonight. Thanks for playing.

Btw, I don't really know how else to reply to the things you say sometimes. Anything but the blunt truth just seems to be downplaying the hilarity of your logic at times. I really try to just skip over your posts as much as I can to avoid this.

I don't hate you. It's just your mouth.

You are an idiot plain and simple. You go on about nothing.

I don't post on weekends. I responded to your post when I first read it. It did not take any great consideration. Giggling indeed.

Saying that Woody owns the team and wants to run it as a circus IS a simple and logical explanation for all that is happening. There is no more simple explanation that can truly explain what has been going on.

I make this point, and you respond with a personal attack.

If you think Woody is doing a great job, and that all that the FO is doing, has done, makes sense to you, you are entitled to your opinion.

Even if it is idiotic.

[catsigater]

Tim has an inherent advantage over any other NFL dual russ/pass QB with his running style and durability.
It's statements like this that make rational Tebow fans cringe.

[Slap]

It's statements like this that make rational Tebow fans cringe.

Did you ask a rational Tebow fan his opinion, Tetard?

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Enough with the personal attacks - keep it to football talk.

[Demosthenes9]

It's statements like this that make rational Tebow fans cringe.

Why ? It's certainly true that Tebow has an inherent advantage. That said, he also has some disadvantages.

His advantage is that he is stronger and more physical than any other dual threat QB out there. When Vick takes off, you pray that he doesn't get hurt, yet again. Vick is tall and thinly built. He's a faster runner, but he can't take the hits. RG3 is built much the same way.

With Tebow, when he hits the second level, you almost have to be more worried about whether the DBs can take the hits that he can hand out.

His big disadvantage is that the other dual threat QBs are better polished passers at this point.

[catsigater]

Why ? It's certainly true that Tebow has an inherent advantage. That said, he also has some disadvantages.

His advantage is that he is stronger and more physical than any other dual threat QB out there. When Vick takes off, you pray that he doesn't get hurt, yet again. Vick is tall and thinly built. He's a faster runner, but he can't take the hits. RG3 is built much the same way.

With Tebow, when he hits the second level, you almost have to be more worried about whether the DBs can take the hits that he can hand out.

His big disadvantage is that the other dual threat QBs are better polished passers at this point.
Cam Newton is bigger and faster than, and every bit as "physical" as Tebow.
To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

[Demosthenes9]

Cam Newton is bigger and faster than, and every bit as "physical" as Tebow.
To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Cam definitely has size and is faster, but I don't know that he is as physical or as strong as Tebow. Would be kind of interesting to see them going head to head in running/tackling drills and see who wins. :)

But yes, if there's any dual threat QB close to, equal, or even more physical than Tebow, it would be Cam.

The vid that you linked to of Cam was kind of meh, as #15 wasn't squared up on him.

I'll try to find the vid of Tebow really running over LSU's All American LB. Was a straight on hit and Tebow drove him back like 5 yards :)

[Demosthenes9]

Cam Newton is bigger and faster than, and every bit as "physical" as Tebow.
To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Haven't found the LSU one yet, but here's an FSU defender getting completely trucked:

r-jSnoxJ1zM


And here's Eric Berry of UT getting bulldozed:

r6hZsD_awY4

[catsigater]

Haven't found the LSU one yet, but here's an FSU defender getting completely trucked:

r-jSnoxJ1zM


And here's Eric Berry of UT getting bulldozed:

r6hZsD_awY4
We can play that game all day.

I stand by my original comment...

"Cam Newton is bigger and faster than, and every bit as "physical" as Tebow"...

which was in response to the ludicrous assertion that Tebow is stronger and more physical than any other dual threat QB out there.

Tebow hasn't any physical advantage over Newton when it comes to playing the QB position.

[Demosthenes9]

We can play that game all day.

I stand by my original comment...

"Cam Newton is bigger and faster than, and every bit as "physical" as Tebow"...

which was in response to the ludicrous assertion that Tebow is stronger and more physical than any other dual threat QB out there.

Tebow hasn't any physical advantage over Newton when it comes to playing the QB position.


Last time I checked, "bigger and faster" does not equate to stronger and that is why I disagreed with your contention that Newton was "every bit as physical" as Tebow.

Heck, even Vic Lombardi called this one:

The difference between Tebow and Vick, Newton, Young, et al ... he's stronger than all of them. Ask Rob Ninkovich

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.!/VicLombardi/statuses/148513855348289536

[Slap]

Why ? It's certainly true that Tebow has an inherent advantage. That said, he also has some disadvantages.

His advantage is that he is stronger and more physical than any other dual threat QB out there. When Vick takes off, you pray that he doesn't get hurt, yet again. Vick is tall and thinly built. He's a faster runner, but he can't take the hits. RG3 is built much the same way.

With Tebow, when he hits the second level, you almost have to be more worried about whether the DBs can take the hits that he can hand out.

His big disadvantage is that the other dual threat QBs are better polished passers at this point.

And Tebow lasted 13 games before he got hurt last year. He's a regular Brett Favre on the durability scale, alright.

[Demosthenes9]

And Tebow lasted 13 games before he got hurt last year. He's a regular Brett Favre on the durability scale, alright.


And where was Tebow when he got injured ? In the FREAKING POCKET. Yet another reason to move him out of the pocket as much as possible.

Thanks for playing :)

[Slap]

And where was Tebow when he got injured ? In the FREAKING POCKET.

The place where you find actual NFL quarterbacks. If he could read defenses he wouldn't absorb so many hits. Which means you better get used to it.

The book to beating him is the same one used against another NFL oddity Doug Flutie. Have your pass rushers just worry about containing him in the pocket. He'll be forced to discern coverages which will mean lots of drive ending incomplete passes and, eventually, season ending sacks.

[Demosthenes9]

The place where you find actual NFL quarterbacks. If he could read defenses he wouldn't absorb so many hits. Which means you better get used to it.

The book to beating him is the same one used against another NFL oddity Doug Flutie. Have your pass rushers just worry about containing him in the pocket. He'll be forced to discern coverages which will mean lots of incomplete passes and, eventually, season ending sacks.

Hmmm, imagine that. A young QB with fewer than 16 starts under his belt (at the time) had trouble reading NFL defenses. SHOCKER.

As to always finding NFL QBs in the pocket, perhaps you should tell Steve Young that. :)

As to having pass rushers merely contain Tebow, yeah, the Steelers tried that and he ended their season by dropping 316 yards on them in his 16th NFL start.

[Slap]

He has trouble making reads most NFL quarterbacks figured out in high school.

[Demosthenes9]

He has trouble making reads most NFL quarterbacks figured out in high school.

You can't even begin to support or backup that statement.

[Big Blocker]

You can't even begin to support or backup that statement.

How about that low completion percentage for starters. And that his productivity declined as last season went on.

[whichfan]

The place where you find actual NFL quarterbacks. If he could read defenses he wouldn't absorb so many hits. Which means you better get used to it.

The book to beating him is the same one used against another NFL oddity Doug Flutie. Have your pass rushers just worry about containing him in the pocket. He'll be forced to discern coverages which will mean lots of drive ending incomplete passes and, eventually, season ending sacks.


And if Denver's offensive line didn't resemble Swiss Cheese and didn't depend on Tebow's rushing to save them all season they may have been remotely competitive against the Patriots defense and that probably wouldn't have happened either.

Tebow wasn't "contained" in the pocket. He got absolutely drilled in the pocket. They couldn't even slow down Patriots penetration, let alone stop it.

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But maybe Manning's reading abilities is going to fix untouched defenders...he didn't really even have to hustle to get to Tebow.

[Catt_County]

Hmmm, imagine that. A young QB with fewer than 16 starts under his belt (at the time) had trouble reading NFL defenses. SHOCKER.

As to always finding NFL QBs in the pocket, perhaps you should tell Steve Young that. :)

As to having pass rushers merely contain Tebow, yeah, the Steelers tried that and he ended their season by dropping 316 yards on them in his 16th NFL start.

The Stillers defense didn't pay attention. What's really ironic is that Timmie's only "good" game in his last 5 came against the best defensive team. The Pats and the Bills had really, really stinky pass defenses, and Timmie made them look all world. :lol:

Timmie threw for 40.8% completions, 3 TDs, 5 INTs, and < 180 yards per game (despite his 316 yards against Pitt) in his last 5 games in which the Donkeys went 1-4. I don't believe he completed even half his passes in any of those games.

The Pats, Bills, and Chiefs all used the same formula to take Timmie and the Donkeys to the woodshed for a whipping (41-23, 40-14, 7-3, 45-10): contain Timmie so he's forced to pass and stick close to his receivers so they can't adjust to catch his errant throws. As I said, the Stillers didn't pay attention.

[Catt_County]

And if Denver's offensive line didn't resemble Swiss Cheese and didn't depend on Tebow's rushing to save them all season they may have been remotely competitive against the Patriots defense and that probably wouldn't have happened either.

Tebow wasn't "contained" in the pocket. He got absolutely drilled in the pocket. They couldn't even slow down Patriots penetration, let alone stop it.

:lol: So, what happened in Buffalo? Your hero threw 4 INTs, 2 for pick sixes. How the hell does a QB NOT see a big ol' dude like Spencer Johnson right there in his face? :ohmy:

[Demosthenes9]

How about that low completion percentage for starters. And that his productivity declined as last season went on.

I'd wager that most people would attribute that to a problem with his mechanics/footwork.

[Demosthenes9]

The Stillers defense didn't pay attention. What's really ironic is that Timmie's only "good" game in his last 5 came against the best defensive team. The Pats and the Bills had really, really stinky pass defenses, and Timmie made them look all world. :lol:

Timmie threw for 40.8% completions, 3 TDs, 5 INTs, and < 180 yards per game (despite his 316 yards against Pitt) in his last 5 games in which the Donkeys went 1-4. I don't believe he completed even half his passes in any of those games.

The Pats, Bills, and Chiefs all used the same formula to take Timmie and the Donkeys to the woodshed for a whipping (41-23, 40-14, 7-3, 45-10): contain Timmie so he's forced to pass and stick close to his receivers so they can't adjust to catch his errant throws. As I said, the Stillers didn't pay attention.


Then maybe the OC should have been trying something else in those games ? heck, look at what you just said, "stick close to his receivers". Probably would have helped a young QB to have receivers actually getting open.

[Demosthenes9]

:lol: So, what happened in Buffalo? Your hero threw 4 INTs, 2 for pick sixes. How the hell does a QB NOT see a big ol' dude like Spencer Johnson right there in his face? :ohmy:

He three int's iirc. What happened there is that they got behind and for the first time that I am aware of, Tebow did something he's never done, which is to take wild chances trying to bring a team back. In the end, he played a bad game.

Wow, amazing, Tebow had a bad game.

Crucify him.

Hmmm, let's go back to Oct 18th, 2009. Mark Sanchez threw 5 INTs against Buffalo while racking up a 34.5% comp percentage.

See, QBs can have bad games.

And isn't that the same Buffalo team that intercepted Tom Brady 4 times earlier in the season ?

See, QBs can have bad games. Shocking, huh ?

[Slap]

And if Denver's offensive line didn't resemble Swiss Cheese and didn't depend on Tebow's rushing to save them all season they may have been remotely competitive against the Patriots defense and that probably wouldn't have happened either.

As per usual, the Tebow fan with his excuses. John Elway was the most sacked quarterback in NFL history, but he retired as the all time leader in wins by a starting quarterback. You need to sack up, son. The other team is trying to win, too.

[Slap]

Then maybe the OC should have been trying something else in those games ? heck, look at what you just said, "stick close to his receivers". Probably would have helped a young QB to have receivers actually getting open.

And more BS excuses. The mantra of the Tebowite. Remember Jets fans, it will always be someone else's fault. Always.

[Demosthenes9]

As per usual, the Tebow fan with his excuses. John Elway was the most sacked quarterback in NFL history, but he retired as the all time leader in wins by a starting quarterback. You need to sack up, son. The other team is trying to win, too.

Funny you mentioned Elway. In his first season as a starter, he went 4-8 :)

[Demosthenes9]

And more BS excuses. The mantra of the Tebowite. Remember Jets fans, it will always be someone else's fault. Always.

Kind of common sense that there are reasons that OCs are fired and new guys are brought in. Doncha think ?

[FakeSpike13]

The Stillers defense didn't pay attention. What's really ironic is that Timmie's only "good" game in his last 5 came against the best defensive team. The Pats and the Bills had really, really stinky pass defenses, and Timmie made them look all world. :lol:

Haha..yeah the Steelers, a team that was the defending AFC Champs and has been pretty dominant over the last decade just simply didn't "pay attention." Dick LeBeau didn't pay attention to what the Bills and KC did....hahah that's absurd..

As for the first Pats game, Tebow actually didn't play that bad at all. If my memory serves me correct, the Broncos were actually up in that game 23-10 or something like that before they fumbled on 3 straight drives (1 fumble by Tebow, 2 fumbles by other players), and then Brady did what Brady does and carved up the Broncos D the rest of the game.

Tebow's questionable performance over the last few games of the regular season would have just been chalked up to "growing pains" if it were any other young QB....

[FakeSpike13]

And more BS excuses. The mantra of the Tebowite. Remember Jets fans, it will always be someone else's fault. Always.

There are just as many excuses for why the Broncos were winning with Tebow from the anti-Tebow crowd as there are excuses from the pro-Tebow crowd.

[CowboysFan]

:lol: So, what happened in Buffalo? Your hero threw 4 INTs, 2 for pick sixes. How the hell does a QB NOT see a big ol' dude like Spencer Johnson right there in his face? :ohmy:

It's called a bad game. Brady threw 4 ints against the Bills also. QBs have bad games, just not usually 8 in a row after getting a big contract like Fitzpatrick did.

[CowboysFan]

As per usual, the Tebow fan with his excuses. John Elway was the most sacked quarterback in NFL history, but he retired as the all time leader in wins by a starting quarterback. You need to sack up, son. The other team is trying to win, too.

Same excuses used by your anti tebow cult to explain away every win and water down whatever contribution Tebow had for the win.

[Slap]

Same excuses used by your anti tebow cult to explain away every win and water down whatever contribution Tebow had for the win.

Tim is the one who belongs to a cult that celebrates human sacrifice. I'm merely reporting the facts about his football ability.

[Slap]

Funny you mentioned Elway. In his first season as a starter, he went 4-8 :)

Funny you should welcome a comparison between the number one overall pick Hall of Famer to a guy who just got peddled for two second day draft choices.

[VanderbiltJets]

Funny you mentioned Elway. In his first season as a starter, he went 4-8 :)

Brees, 8-8

[Demosthenes9]

Tim is the one who belongs to a cult that celebrates human sacrifice. I'm merely reporting the facts about his football ability.

You call what you have been spreading around this site "facts" ? That's hilarious.



Funny you should welcome a comparison between the number one overall pick Hall of Famer to a guy who just got peddled for two second day draft choices.

That's the best you can come back with ?

If John Elway the QB had played for John Elway, the FO exec, he would probably have been traded after his first year as his stats were terrible and there was little indication that he had any football talent other than a rocket arm and an unstoppable will.

Elway didn't know how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball and he damned sure didn't know how to read defenses during his first season.

[Demosthenes9]

Brees, 8-8

True. We could also look at both of the Manning brothers and any number of other "top tier QBs" who took some time to develop.

This isn't to say that Tebow WILL end up being a great QB. He might end up being a bust.

But, it's silly to even think about passing judgement after the kid has had a whopping 16 starts under his belt and NO offseason as a starter.

[Catt_County]

Haha..yeah the Steelers, a team that was the defending AFC Champs and has been pretty dominant over the last decade just simply didn't "pay attention." Dick LeBeau didn't pay attention to what the Bills and KC did....hahah that's absurd..

As for the first Pats game, Tebow actually didn't play that bad at all. If my memory serves me correct, the Broncos were actually up in that game 23-10 or something like that before they fumbled on 3 straight drives (1 fumble by Tebow, 2 fumbles by other players), and then Brady did what Brady does and carved up the Broncos D the rest of the game.

Tebow's questionable performance over the last few games of the regular season would have just been chalked up to "growing pains" if it were any other young QB....

Shows how much you know about the NFL, sweetpea.

Dick LeBeau's Ds live and die by the blitz. It's why Pitt is sometimes called "Blitzburgh". Blitzing Tebow is the wrong thing to do because you need to have DBs out in the secondary to catch those errant Tebow ducks, but Pitt thought they could do what other teams couldn't. That's called arrogance.

The crappy pass Ds of the Pats and Bills were successful because they wanted Timmie to pass. One of the advantages of having a crappy pass defense is that your team gets used to using schemes to make up for deficiencies -- plus your DBs are in good shape from chasing receivers all over the field, so they had no problem sticking with the Donkeys' receivers. :wink:

You call it "growing pains", and I call it the reality that teams figured Timmie out.

[Catt_County]

It's called a bad game. Brady threw 4 ints against the Bills also. QBs have bad games, just not usually 8 in a row after getting a big contract like Fitzpatrick did.

Actually it was 4 losing games out of 5 played, and 5 crappy outings in a row for Timmie. Despite managing to throw for 316 yards in 5 quarters, Timmie only completed 10 passes and only 6 the week before against KC. Y'know, sometimes even blind squirrels and really crappy QBs get lucky ... :lol:

I'm NOT pretending that Ryan Fitzpatrick is God's own gift to professional football. However, he's definitely a better QB than Timmie, but then, I think that Brad Smith might be, too, if he practiced at it some.

[Catt_County]

If John Elway the QB had played for John Elway, the FO exec, he would probably have been traded after his first year as his stats were terrible and there was little indication that he had any football talent other than a rocket arm and an unstoppable will.

Elway didn't know how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball and he damned sure didn't know how to read defenses during his first season.

Only in the Tebot alternative universe.

[Demosthenes9]

Shows how much you know about the NFL, sweetpea.

Dick LeBeau's Ds live and die by the blitz. It's why Pitt is sometimes called "Blitzburgh". Blitzing Tebow is the wrong thing to do because you need to have DBs out in the secondary to catch those errant Tebow ducks, but Pitt thought they could do what other teams couldn't. That's called arrogance.

The crappy pass Ds of the Pats and Bills were successful because they wanted Timmie to pass. One of the advantages of having a crappy pass defense is that your team gets used to using schemes to make up for deficiencies -- plus your DBs are in good shape from chasing receivers all over the field, so they had no problem sticking with the Donkeys' receivers. :wink:

You call it "growing pains", and I call it the reality that teams figured Timmie out.


Funny thing is that most of Tebow's big passes in that game came against Cover 1. :)

[Demosthenes9]

Only in the Tebot alternative universe.

Have to ask if you are old enough to have watched Elway play his first year. He was anything but a good QB. He was last in the league in QB rating iirc.

[FakeSpike13]

Actually it was 4 losing games out of 5 played, and 5 crappy outings in a row for Timmie. Despite managing to throw for 316 yards in 5 quarters, Timmie only completed 10 passes and only 6 the week before against KC. Y'know, sometimes even blind squirrels and really crappy QBs get lucky ... :lol:

I'm NOT pretending that Ryan Fitzpatrick is God's own gift to professional football. However, he's definitely a better QB than Timmie, but then, I think that Brad Smith might be, too, if he practiced at it some.

4 out of 5 bad games you say???

How about Fitz's 8 out of 9 bad games to end the season? During that stretch the Bills posted totals of 7, 8, 10, 11, and 17 total points in 5 of those contests. 'Ol Fitzy threw 16 picks over that span.. :lol:

If Fitz is so much better than Timmy, then how do you explain a 6 year vet going through a significantly worse stretch than a 2nd year guy??

[statjeff22]

John Elway's numbers were actually quite mediocre for the first 10 years of his career - 54.7% completion percentage, 158 TDs, 157 INTs, 73.8 QB rating. It was his winning percentage that kept him his job (89-52-1), not any perception that he was a great drop back quarterback, and he was no lock for the Hall of Fame (of the class of '83 QBs, at that point anyone would have rated Marino and Kelly much higher than he, and even O'Brien's numbers were better). His numbers were far better his last 6 years in the NFL (60.0% completion percentage, 142 TDs, 69 INTs, 88.9 QBR), with an even better winning percentage (59-30). Not so coincidentally Terrell Davis played with him for the last 4 of those years.

I don't really see what any of this has to do with Tebow, but I just wanted to point out that thinking of Elway as an immediate success like Marino, P. Manning, or Brady (once he started) is simply not correct.

[Slap]

If John Elway the QB had played for John Elway, the FO exec, he would probably have been traded after his first year as his stats were terrible and there was little indication that he had any football talent other than a rocket arm and an unstoppable will.

Elway didn't know how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball and he damned sure didn't know how to read defenses during his first season.

Your mindless snivelling is music to my ears now that we've excised your cancer from the organization. Too bad you'll now metastasize here instead.

[VanderbiltJets]

True. We could also look at both of the Manning brothers and any number of other "top tier QBs" who took some time to develop.

This isn't to say that Tebow WILL end up being a great QB. He might end up being a bust.

But, it's silly to even think about passing judgement after the kid has had a whopping 16 starts under his belt and NO offseason as a starter.

I wasn't really making a point so much as lambasting the fact that, if either Sanchez or Tebow wins a Super Bowl, they will be instantly gratified and more.

[Slap]

John Elway's numbers were actually quite mediocre for the first 10 years of his career - 54.7% completion percentage, 158 TDs, 157 INTs, 73.8 QB rating. It was his winning percentage that kept him his job (89-52-1), not any perception that he was a great drop back quarterback, and he was no lock for the Hall of Fame (of the class of '83 QBs, at that point anyone would have rated Marino and Kelly much higher than he, and even O'Brien's numbers were better). His numbers were far better his last 6 years in the NFL (60.0% completion percentage, 142 TDs, 69 INTs, 88.9 QBR), with an even better winning percentage (59-30). Not so coincidentally Terrell Davis played with him for the last 4 of those years.

I don't really see what any of this has to do with Tebow, but I just wanted to point out that thinking of Elway as an immediate success like Marino, P. Manning, or Brady (once he started) is simply not correct.

Elway carried three outmanned Bronco squads to the Super Bowl on his back. Denver had the smallest offensive lines in the NFL under Dan Reeves and among the smallest and most unathletic front sevens. Most sacked quarterback in history, remember?

Marino was drafted by the AFC champions and only got them back once more in 16 years. Kelly had way more help in the form of Thomas, Reed, BSmith, Bennett, Talley, Hull, etc.

Things began to change in Denver when Wade Phillips traded for Gary Zimmerman and Mike Shanahan installed a 20th century offense.

Sorry if providing some context to the numbers wrecks your argument. I'm sure Tebow will play in five Super Bowls before he's done, too. Or, maybe, he'll last five more seasons in the NFL. Wouldn't hold out much hope for either scenario.

[FakeSpike13]

Elway carried three outmanned Bronco squads to the Super Bowl on his back. Denver had the smallest offensive lines in the NFL under Dan Reeves and among the smallest and most unathletic front sevens. Most sacked quarterback in history, remember?

These sound strikingly similar to Tebow excuses...

[Big Blocker]

John Elway's numbers were actually quite mediocre for the first 10 years of his career - 54.7% completion percentage, 158 TDs, 157 INTs, 73.8 QB rating. It was his winning percentage that kept him his job (89-52-1), not any perception that he was a great drop back quarterback, and he was no lock for the Hall of Fame (of the class of '83 QBs, at that point anyone would have rated Marino and Kelly much higher than he, and even O'Brien's numbers were better). His numbers were far better his last 6 years in the NFL (60.0% completion percentage, 142 TDs, 69 INTs, 88.9 QBR), with an even better winning percentage (59-30). Not so coincidentally Terrell Davis played with him for the last 4 of those years.

I don't really see what any of this has to do with Tebow, but I just wanted to point out that thinking of Elway as an immediate success like Marino, P. Manning, or Brady (once he started) is simply not correct.

I don't think it has anything to do with Tebow, either, but I feel compelled to point out as you know that the NFL back then was much less friendly to completion percentage, for a variety of reasons. You also left out he took his team to the SB in 86, was the NFL MVP in 87, two additonal SB appearances, concededly losses, before winning two, and of course legendary events such as The Drive. He is also tied for comeback wins NFL all time at third with Johnny Unitas, the number being 34. He is second all time NFL for 148 wins, behind Favre, and at 300 TD passes is fifth all time.

Elway's Broncos rarely had a decent D to support him, and one SB loss they gave up 35 points in the second half to the Skins. Although there were the Three Amigos earlier on, in fact he often played without any real offensive support until Davis joined him.

The Sporting News lists him at 16 in the list of greatest football players all time. As a Qb he is usually ranked top five all time. With Tom Brady he is the only Qb to start in five SB's.

I just wanted to clear up any misconception that his success was somehow limited to his last six years.