Tebow Tebow Tebow Tebow Tebow (merged several times)

[Big Blocker]

Fair enough. I watched every pass that Tebow attempted and threw this year, most of them, a number of times as I have the games right here on my PC.

He accurately threw just about every "NFL pass" that QBs are supposed to make. He also threw quote a few passes into the dirt and was way off target on too many passes.

That's why I say that he's inconsistent.

BUT, he CAN pass. He hit crossing routes. He hit passing routes. He hit sluggos. He hit fades. He had deep outs. He hit some timing passes. He hit backs out of the backfield. He hit screens.

He hit every kind of pass that a young QB is expected to hit, he just didn't do it all the time and when he farked up, they looked terrible.

In my book, IF you can hit everything, just not consistently, that means that you can improve. All you have to do is become more consistent, as opposed to trying to do things that you've proven you can't do.

If you will, it would be like me running a sub 4 minute mile. If I had 50 attempts and hit 4 mins 45% off the time, that is PROOF that I can do it. I just need to correct the mistakes that I made the other 55% of the time, and become more consistent.

That's different from me NEVER running a 4 min mile. If I NEVER did it, then there's no indication that I ever could.

See what I'm getting at ?

Again, I don't know that Tebow WILL be a good/great QB. I just think he has amazing potential and that time will tell. Learning and experience will do nothing but help him improve.

You keep missing the point, and to such an extent one has to wonder if it is worth trying to get you to see it. His mechanics are off. With poor mechanics you can occasionally still make a good play. But you will lack consistency and consistent accuracy.

Tebow has already been in the NFL two years, and knew he was eventually going to play in the NFL some time before that. Yet he has failed to change his mechanics into what is necessary to play NFL Qb at a consistent and effective level.

John Elway is one of hte best Qb's to ever play the game. Anyone who's ever been to Denver knows his stature in that town, in that fanbase. Yet that was all overwhelmed by Tebow Fans. Elway got to see Tebow up close, and he decided to make a move that meant Tebow would be gone.

That tells me a great deal. I trust Elway's judgment more than agenda driven Tebow Fans, or homer Jet fans, too, for that matter.

[CaneJet]

The way to make this work is to have Tebow in the huddle, with Sanchez, on most if not all offensive snaps. He will line up as H-back or tight end or quarterback. The defense won't know who will be the QB on any given play until they line up. And, didn't Sanchez show that he had great hands on Hard Knocks? He could run a pattern and catch the ball once in a blue moon. And if Sanchez goes down... I'd elevate McElroy to starter and keep Tebow doing the same.

[truthbtold]

We also get blown out by SD and probably lose one of the Bills games and the Dallas game is over in the first half and probably lose the Washington game. Over all worse with Tebow last year than Sanchez.

You totally missed my point. I never said we would have been better last year if Tebow played over Sanchez. I'm pointing out that if he was on the roster we don't lose those two games. he provides us with another option and playing him in certain situations will definitely help us ... and I'd bet anyone on here that if they really do bring him in for 6-8 snaps per game, our offense scores more points in 2012 than they did in 2011 because he'll keep the chains moving.

[DirtySanchez]

Both of those guys looked like NFL QB's with a ton of potential in area's required to be an NFL QB. Tebow, not so much. Lay off the stats and use the eyeball test. Tebow doesn't pass.

I will grant you his throwing motion is ugly, and at times his accuracy is flat out bad. But we can probably think of other NFL quarterbacks that couldn't make all the throws that well (Chad?) or that had an ugly throwing motion (Kosar).

I don't see why people think that Mark can improve (as he has) every year but Tebow can not. While the throwing motion is ugly, he's had 300 yard games against NFL defenses, it's not like the guy can't throw the ball at all.


He threw the ball pretty well in this comeback vs the dolphins:

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When he can't pass against two good corners, his running makes up for it:

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Against the Raiders, you can see how wide open some of his WR's as the raiders try to account for Tebow running (and how he successfully hit his open WR's)

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I think the guy is worth trying to develop. If his ceiling as a passer is to be as good as Mark is now, he will be unstoppable due to his running ability.

[Biggs]

You totally missed my point. I never said we would have been better last year if Tebow played over Sanchez. I'm pointing out that if he was on the roster we don't lose those two games. he provides us with another option and playing him in certain situations will definitely help us ... and I'd bet anyone on here that if they really do bring him in for 6-8 snaps per game, our offense scores more points in 2012 than they did in 2011.

My point is there were games were Sanchez sucked where you could argue that Tebow gets us more points. There were several games were Sanchez didn't suck that we might have scored less points if we pulled him for the option.

If Shillings stays healthy and we improve the OL we will score more points in 12 than we did in 11.

The argument that a gimmick O run for 6 to 8 plays a year will outscore a crappy O run by a bad QB isn't really the point. The question is how do we get to a SB. I suggest a better O run by a better throwing QB is the way. Tebow isn't in the same league as Sanchez when it comes to throwing the ball. Because he isn't I don't think taking out Sanchez for Tebow improves our ability to score.

[CowboysFan]

The way to make this work is to have Tebow in the huddle, with Sanchez, on most if not all offensive snaps. He will line up as H-back or tight end or quarterback. The defense won't know who will be the QB on any given play until they line up. And, didn't Sanchez show that he had great hands on Hard Knocks? He could run a pattern and catch the ball once in a blue moon. And if Sanchez goes down... I'd elevate McElroy to starter and keep Tebow doing the same.

It would be very interesting to have them both on the field at once.

[dmarz45]

I just wanna make one thing straight for EVERYBODY that keeps saying Tebow is gonna run the wildcat. the "wildcat" is when a RB or WR lines up at QB. Tebow is a QB so its not the wildcat, its just a shotgun snap really....

[LongTimeJetsFan]

I just wanna make one thing straight for EVERYBODY that keeps saying Tebow is gonna run the wildcat. the "wildcat" is when a RB or WR lines up at QB. Tebow is a QB so its not the wildcat, its just a shotgun snap really....
That is incorrect.

Read this.
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They say Tebow is going to run the wildcat because that's what Sparano and Rex have said they want to use him in.

[Demosthenes9]

You keep missing the point, and to such an extent one has to wonder if it is worth trying to get you to see it. His mechanics are off. With poor mechanics you can occasionally still make a good play. But you will lack consistency and consistent accuracy.

Tebow has already been in the NFL two years, and knew he was eventually going to play in the NFL some time before that. Yet he has failed to change his mechanics into what is necessary to play NFL Qb at a consistent and effective level.

John Elway is one of hte best Qb's to ever play the game. Anyone who's ever been to Denver knows his stature in that town, in that fanbase. Yet that was all overwhelmed by Tebow Fans. Elway got to see Tebow up close, and he decided to make a move that meant Tebow would be gone.

That tells me a great deal. I trust Elway's judgment more than agenda driven Tebow Fans, or homer Jet fans, too, for that matter.

I haven't missed the point at all as I've said that he still needs to work on his mechanics.

Apparently, you believe that at any given point in development, a QB throws the ball the same way every time. This is evident by you saying that his mechanics are off. YES, sometimes his mechanics are off. Other times, they are just fine. That's a question of CONSISTENCY. He needs to repeat the "good" mechanics that he has at times.

If you will, it's like watching a pitcher who pitches really well at times, and other times, not so well. You'll see that his mechanics change from pitch to pitch (and I'm not talking about the subtle difference between ball placement or whether he's throwing a slider or a fastball.) Rather, his shoulder might drop, he might come further over the top, his stride might be different, yada, yada, yada.

It's the same way with a batter. It's the same way with a golfer. You have to learn good mechanics to be sure, BUT, then you have to repeat those mechanics until you become consistent with them. You have to burn them into your muscle memory. You have to make it second nature so that you don't have to think about it, you just do it.

That comes with experience and repetition.

[Demosthenes9]

John Elway is one of hte best Qb's to ever play the game. Anyone who's ever been to Denver knows his stature in that town, in that fanbase. Yet that was all overwhelmed by Tebow Fans. Elway got to see Tebow up close, and he decided to make a move that meant Tebow would be gone.

That tells me a great deal. I trust Elway's judgment more than agenda driven Tebow Fans, or homer Jet fans, too, for that matter.

Elway also has his vision, i.e. "conventional wisdom", of what a QB should be, i.e. a traditional pocket passer. Tebow doesn't fit that mold right now, and Elway had a chance to get Peyton freaking Manning.

If someone like Elway had been the VP of the Broncs back in '83 and someone of Peyton Manning's talent had been available, then John Elway wouldn't have lasted long as the Bronco's QB.

[whichfan]

I'm sure he's going to run a number of different formations, not just the wildcat.

[JetBlue]

That tells me a great deal. I trust Elway's judgment more than agenda driven Tebow Fans, or homer Jet fans, too, for that matter.

the problem with this logic is that great athletes have shown to be suspect in their ability to evaluate talent or coach talent. Michael Jordan drafted Kwame Brown with the number one pick in the draft. clearly his ability to play doesn't translate to an ability to evaluate, so the "Elway was a great player so I will trust his judgement" position isn't infallible.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Elway also has his vision, i.e. "conventional wisdom", of what a QB should be, i.e. a traditional pocket passer. Tebow doesn't fit that mold right now, and Elway had a chance to get Peyton freaking Manning.

If someone like Elway had been the VP of the Broncs back in '83 and someone of Peyton Manning's talent had been available, then John Elway wouldn't have lasted long as the Bronco's QB.

Elway was one of the best QB prospects to ever enter the NFL. WTF are you talking about?

[GoPats]

If someone like Elway had been the VP of the Broncs back in '83 and someone of Peyton Manning's talent had been available, then John Elway wouldn't have lasted long as the Bronco's QB.

Mmmmm, probably not. Elway was as highly touted as they come, and even if the Broncos had a chance to get the 1983 equivalent of Peyton Manning - a Hall of Fame player on the back nine - there's no way they would have done it. They essentially gave up two first round picks for him.

Manning gave Elway the perfect out. Like having something come up for work some night when you're supposed to see your in-laws or hang out with your wife's friends. He clearly did not believe in Tebow, and the Manning soap opera was his perfect chance to get out of it.

[Demosthenes9]

the problem with this logic is that great athletes have shown to be suspect in their ability to evaluate talent or coach talent. Michael Jordan drafted Kwame Brown with the number one pick in the draft. clearly his ability to play doesn't translate to an ability to evaluate, so the "Elway was a great player so I will trust his judgement" position isn't infallible.

Cough Matt Millen Cough :)

[Demosthenes9]

Mmmmm, probably not. Elway was as highly touted as they come, and even if the Broncos had a chance to get the 1983 equivalent of Peyton Manning - a Hall of Fame player on the back nine - there's no way they would have done it. They essentially gave up two first round picks for him.

Manning gave Elway the perfect out. Like having something come up for work some night when you're supposed to see your in-laws or hang out with your wife's friends. He clearly did not believe in Tebow, and the Manning soap opera was his perfect chance to get out of it.

I agree that Elway didn't believe in Tebow, but, the real question is why. Did he think that Tebow would never be a good NFL QB ? Or, did he think that to get to the SB, you HAVE to be a "traditional pocket passer" ? Or did he think that while Tebow could become a good QB, Peyton Manning gave Denver the chance to win the SB right now ? You know, short term versus long term vision ?

[Big Blocker]

the problem with this logic is that great athletes have shown to be suspect in their ability to evaluate talent or coach talent. Michael Jordan drafted Kwame Brown with the number one pick in the draft. clearly his ability to play doesn't translate to an ability to evaluate, so the "Elway was a great player so I will trust his judgement" position isn't infallible.

We are not merely talking about drafting someone, and I am frankly surprised you would think such an analogy is applicable here.

This is not merely Elway's assessment of someone as a draft pick. Elway has seen Tebow up close for two years. He has seen what he can do and what he can't do. And as GM for the Broncos he traded away a former number one pick for a 4th and sixth, and even paid half the money paid him this year just to get rid of him.

Yes he was making room for Peyton Manning, but he's also paying Manning a ton of money and taking a real chance on Manning. This could blow up in Elway's face big time. If he thought Tebow could develop, or more to the point was a reasonable prospect for adequate development, the smart move would have been to pass on Manning.

But Elway obviously did not think Tebow had a reasonable chance of developing into the kind of Qb the NFL demands for winning with consistency. He saw what everyone else saw, a player who surprised some at first with his ability to take off, but who played some horrid games down the stretch, mixing in a great effort at Pitt, only to suck against NE.

That's a lot more than guessing on some draft pick. As you well know.

[CowboysFan]

I agree that Elway didn't believe in Tebow, but, the real question is why. Did he think that Tebow would never be a good NFL QB ? Or, did he think that to get to the SB, you HAVE to be a "traditional pocket passer" ? Or did he think that while Tebow could become a good QB, Peyton Manning gave Denver the chance to win the SB right now ? You know, short term versus long term vision ?

He never drafted him, no one in the building did. QBs require commitment from the organization.

[Italian Seafood]

the problem with this logic is that great athletes have shown to be suspect in their ability to evaluate talent or coach talent. Michael Jordan drafted Kwame Brown with the number one pick in the draft. clearly his ability to play doesn't translate to an ability to evaluate, so the "Elway was a great player so I will trust his judgement" position isn't infallible.

Elgin Baylor must own the NBA record for most times representing his team (Clippers) on the draft lottery dais. Anyone else would have been long gone.

[Big Blocker]

Elway was one of the best QB prospects to ever enter the NFL. WTF are you talking about?

I think it's clear he doesn't know what he is talking about.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

We are not merely talking about drafting someone, and I am frankly surprised you would think such an analogy is applicable here.

This is not merely Elway's assessment of someone as a draft pick. Elway has seen Tebow up close for two years. He has seen what he can do and what he can't do. And as GM for the Broncos he traded away a former number one pick for a 4th and sixth, and even paid half the money paid him this year just to get rid of him.

Yes he was making room for Peyton Manning, but he's also paying Manning a ton of money and taking a real chance on Manning. This could blow up in Elway's face big time. If he thought Tebow could develop, or more to the point was a reasonable prospect for adequate development, the smart move would have been to pass on Manning.

But Elway obviously did not think Tebow had a reasonable chance of developing into the kind of Qb the NFL demands for winning with consistency. He saw what everyone else saw, a player who surprised some at first with his ability to take off, but who played some horrid games down the stretch, mixing in a great effort at Pitt, only to suck against NE.

That's a lot more than guessing on some draft pick. As you well know.

Not to mention, why get rid of your security policy at backup QB? Especially when you already have a team full of guys that know and have experience in a different offense especially tailored to his strengths.

[GoPats]

I agree that Elway didn't believe in Tebow, but, the real question is why. Did he think that Tebow would never be a good NFL QB ? Or, did he think that to get to the SB, you HAVE to be a "traditional pocket passer" ? Or did he think that while Tebow could become a good QB, Peyton Manning gave Denver the chance to win the SB right now ? You know, short term versus long term vision ?

I obviously don't know for sure, since I'm not Elway, but if you want my two cents, I would say he didn't believe in him from the start and never did. He may have gotten a little caught up in the hype at different points. But I think deep down, he was never really a fan and didn't think that teams can win without having a prolific passing attack. Words are one thing, actions are another, and as soon as Elway got his chance to get out of Tebowmania without being crucified by the fan base, he took it and ran with it.

Just my opinion, of course, but I think it was simply that Elway did not believe the Broncos could possibly win a championship with Tebow.

[74Mangold]

We are not merely talking about drafting someone, and I am frankly surprised you would think such an analogy is applicable here.

This is not merely Elway's assessment of someone as a draft pick. Elway has seen Tebow up close for two years. He has seen what he can do and what he can't do. And as GM for the Broncos he traded away a former number one pick for a 4th and sixth, and even paid half the money paid him this year just to get rid of him.

Yes he was making room for Peyton Manning, but he's also paying Manning a ton of money and taking a real chance on Manning. This could blow up in Elway's face big time. If he thought Tebow could develop, or more to the point was a reasonable prospect for adequate development, the smart move would have been to pass on Manning.

But Elway obviously did not think Tebow had a reasonable chance of developing into the kind of Qb the NFL demands for winning with consistency. He saw what everyone else saw, a player who surprised some at first with his ability to take off, but who played some horrid games down the stretch, mixing in a great effort at Pitt, only to suck against NE.

That's a lot more than guessing on some draft pick. As you well know.

If your point is that Tim Tebow is unlikely to compel us to bench Mark Sanchez for his majestic honeur....mission accomplished. ? . ?

What does any of this have to do with a highly paid guy that only cost a 4th round pick being unable to run a gimmick formation that his skills are tailored for in a limited role?

Elway was canning his quarterback, not his wildcat gimmick. We bought a wildcat gimmick, not a serious starting quarterback.

Who is hurt here I'm confused?

[Italian Seafood]

If your point is that Tim Tebow is unlikely to compel us to bench Mark Sanchez for his majestic honeur....mission accomplished. ? . ?

What does any of this have to do with a highly paid guy that only cost a 4th round pick being unable to run a gimmick formation that his skills are tailored for in a limited role?

Elway was canning his quarterback, not his wildcat gimmick. We bought a wildcat gimmick, not a serious starting quarterback.

Who is hurt here I'm confused?

This is what a lot of people are missing. We added a pretty potent weapon for Rex Ryan to deploy without giving up anything but an exchange of draft picks, and the guy doesn't break the bank. I don't see a downside except for the hype, etc, but the Jets always have something going on in that regard so I don't see that as a big deal.

[Big Blocker]

This is what a lot of people are missing. We added a pretty potent weapon for Rex Ryan to deploy without giving up anything but an exchange of draft picks, and the guy doesn't break the bank. I don't see a downside except for the hype, etc, but the Jets always have something going on in that regard so I don't see that as a big deal.

Lack of rhythm in the O, division in the fanbase, home games not only with fans booing Sanchez but rooting for his replacement with Tebow, division in the locker room along the same lines.

A more complicated offense, yes, even than Schotty's, using plays that are for Sanchez as well as ones for Tebow, and the O having to learn them and practice them.

I see plenty of downside, but most of all that the focus will be somewhat other than helping Mark Sanchez better learn how to read D's.

[JetBlue]

We are not merely talking about drafting someone, and I am frankly surprised you would think such an analogy is applicable here.

This is not merely Elway's assessment of someone as a draft pick. Elway has seen Tebow up close for two years. He has seen what he can do and what he can't do. And as GM for the Broncos he traded away a former number one pick for a 4th and sixth, and even paid half the money paid him this year just to get rid of him.

Yes he was making room for Peyton Manning, but he's also paying Manning a ton of money and taking a real chance on Manning. This could blow up in Elway's face big time. If he thought Tebow could develop, or more to the point was a reasonable prospect for adequate development, the smart move would have been to pass on Manning.

But Elway obviously did not think Tebow had a reasonable chance of developing into the kind of Qb the NFL demands for winning with consistency. He saw what everyone else saw, a player who surprised some at first with his ability to take off, but who played some horrid games down the stretch, mixing in a great effort at Pitt, only to suck against NE.

That's a lot more than guessing on some draft pick. As you well know.
my point is that someone's playing ability doesn't translate to an ability to evaluate talent, so I am not going to defer my opinion to his simply on that criteria. is there more projection when drafting a player than dealing with an established player? of course. but at the end of the day it is still evaluating.

Elway clearly wants a great passer. that isn't Tebow and likely never will be Tebow. that being said, his preference for someone who can make plays solely on his ability to read defenses and make throws doesn't mean Tebow doesn't have skills and abilities that can help a team win, so I certainly am not going to dismiss Tebow because he isn't Elway's ideal QB, because that is all Elway getting rid of Tebow reflects -- that Tebow isn't Elway's ideal QB. it doesn't mean he isn't capable of succeeding as a QB in the NFL in a different manner than Elway wants a QB to play.

[74Mangold]

Lack of rhythm in the O, division in the fanbase, home games not only with fans booing Sanchez but rooting for his replacement with Tebow, division in the locker room along the same lines.

A more complicated offense, yes, even than Schotty's, using plays that are for Sanchez as well as ones for Tebow, and the O having to learn them and practice them.

I see plenty of downside, but most of all that the focus will be somewhat other than helping Mark Sanchez better learn how to read D's.

That and 50 cents will get you a towel at the Y.

[Demosthenes9]

so I certainly am not going to dismiss Tebow because he isn't Elway's ideal QB, because that is all Elway getting rid of Tebow reflects -- that Tebow isn't Elway's ideal QB. it doesn't mean he isn't capable of succeeding as a QB in the NFL in a different manner than Elway wants a QB to play.

Exactly.

Hope I don't get shot for this, but it's like when Bill Walsh stepped up and wanted Steve Young from Tampa, even when many in his organization completely disagreed with it.

Not saying that Tebow will turn out like Young, but it does highlight the fact that even "football" people can have different opinions as to someone's potential.

[Rawrk]

We are not merely talking about drafting someone, and I am frankly surprised you would think such an analogy is applicable here.

This is not merely Elway's assessment of someone as a draft pick. Elway has seen Tebow up close for two years. He has seen what he can do and what he can't do. And as GM for the Broncos he traded away a former number one pick for a 4th and sixth, and even paid half the money paid him this year just to get rid of him.

Yes he was making room for Peyton Manning, but he's also paying Manning a ton of money and taking a real chance on Manning. This could blow up in Elway's face big time. If he thought Tebow could develop, or more to the point was a reasonable prospect for adequate development, the smart move would have been to pass on Manning.

But Elway obviously did not think Tebow had a reasonable chance of developing into the kind of Qb the NFL demands for winning with consistency. He saw what everyone else saw, a player who surprised some at first with his ability to take off, but who played some horrid games down the stretch, mixing in a great effort at Pitt, only to suck against NE.

That's a lot more than guessing on some draft pick. As you well know.

it's hard to take elway's opinion of tebow seriously because it was clear from the very beginning that elway did not like the idea of tim tebow has the starting qb for the broncos. elway didn't watch him for 2 years and then make a decision. it was clearly from a guilty until proven innocent point of view. he didn't even bother with the pr friendly, gm bullshit talk. he would kind of just take digs at tebow all the way through.

also, taking a chance on manning isn't a big risk. nfl teams have seen him. i'm sure he got checked out physically. so if you're told this is a healthy manning, then there really isn't much more of a sure thing. you might think it's a big risk in your mind and then apply it to elway's decision.. but for 90 million, i'm willing to bet that you think the risk of signing peyton manning is far greater than what elway thinks it is.

the bolded doesn't really make sense. why would it be a smart move to take a chance on a qb when you're sure you're getting the real deal in manning? the jets had to think the same way. maybe sanchez develops into a great starting qb, but you already know what you're going to get with manning. again, easy choice. you go with the hall of famer over a reasonable prospect.

the titans just drafted jake locker last year. pretty good prospect, showed some skills in limited playtime. still interested in manning. not because they don't believe in locker, but because this is peyton manning.

as for what he got in return for tebow.. denver doesn't dictate the cost once you make it known you're set on getting rid of him. the market does. the fact that teams were only willing to give up a 4th and a 6th is more of an indication of what the rest of the nfl thinks tebow's value is. if jacksonville got him for a 2nd, it's not like elway thought higher of tebow.

Not to mention, why get rid of your security policy at backup QB? Especially when you already have a team full of guys that know and have experience in a different offense especially tailored to his strengths.

i really think elway wanted to get rid of tebow. he was just clearly not a fan of him as a player, which can only lead to not liking the media circus that he brings. also, unlike the jets, the broncos weren't going to put tebow in for certain packages.

backup qbs aren't really supposed to be security policies. they're just there. if your starting qb goes down, you don't look to the 2 and go, whew at least we have this guy as a security policy.

so why deal with the tebow circus for any longer than you really have to?

[Big Blocker]

my point is that someone's playing ability doesn't translate to an ability to evaluate talent, so I am not going to defer my opinion to his simply on that criteria. is there more projection when drafting a player than dealing with an established player? of course. but at the end of the day it is still evaluating.

Elway clearly wants a great passer. that isn't Tebow and likely never will be Tebow. that being said, his preference for someone who can make plays solely on his ability to read defenses and make throws doesn't mean Tebow doesn't have skills and abilities that can help a team win, so I certainly am not going to dismiss Tebow because he isn't Elway's ideal QB, because that is all Elway getting rid of Tebow reflects -- that Tebow isn't Elway's ideal QB. it doesn't mean he isn't capable of succeeding as a QB in the NFL in a different manner than Elway wants a QB to play.

You make it sound like Elway just has some kind of prejudice about having a certain kind of Qb. I think he prefers to have a Qb who he thinks will be successful in the NFL, and that Tebow is not that kind of Qb. It's not a question of some disembodied ideal, but rather of what works, what is necessary, in the NFL.

Plus Elway is not merely a former player. He's been the GM of hte Broncos for two years now.

"still evaluating" I call BS. Assessing someone as a draft pick involves a whole lot less information than having a player on your team for two years. Just give that one up, and we will call it a day. You can have your opinion that Tanny, not a football guy, Woody, who knows even less, and Ryan, a defensive guy, know how to assess Qb's better than John Elway, but I like my argument better.

[Big Blocker]

it's hard to take elway's opinion of tebow seriously because it was clear from the very beginning that elway did not like the idea of tim tebow has the starting qb for the broncos. elway didn't watch him for 2 years and then make a decision. it was clearly from a guilty until proven innocent point of view. he didn't even bother with the pr friendly, gm bullshit talk. he would kind of just take digs at tebow all the way through.

also, taking a chance on manning isn't a big risk. nfl teams have seen him. i'm sure he got checked out physically. so if you're told this is a healthy manning, then there really isn't much more of a sure thing. you might think it's a big risk in your mind and then apply it to elway's decision.. but for 90 million, i'm willing to bet that you think the risk of signing peyton manning is far greater than what elway thinks it is.

the bolded doesn't really make sense. why would it be a smart move to take a chance on a qb when you're sure you're getting the real deal in manning? the jets had to think the same way. maybe sanchez develops into a great starting qb, but you already know what you're going to get with manning. again, easy choice. you go with the hall of famer over a reasonable prospect.

the titans just drafted jake locker last year. pretty good prospect, showed some skills in limited playtime. still interested in manning. not because they don't believe in locker, but because this is peyton manning.

as for what he got in return for tebow.. denver doesn't dictate the cost once you make it known you're set on getting rid of him. the market does. the fact that teams were only willing to give up a 4th and a 6th is more of an indication of what the rest of the nfl thinks tebow's value is. if jacksonville got him for a 2nd, it's not like elway thought higher of tebow.



i really think elway wanted to get rid of tebow. he was just clearly not a fan of him as a player, which can only lead to not liking the media circus that he brings. also, unlike the jets, the broncos weren't going to put tebow in for certain packages.

backup qbs aren't really supposed to be security policies. they're just there. if your starting qb goes down, you don't look to the 2 and go, whew at least we have this guy as a security policy.

so why deal with the tebow circus for any longer than you really have to?

Please. Elway may well have started out with skepticism of Tebow, but he didn't see enough for two years to change his mind on Tebow.

Let's put it this way - if the Broncos had beaten the Pats, even made it to the SB, with solid performances by Tebow, do you still think Elway would have gotten Manning? I think not, but we don't have to worry about it, since Tebow confirmed Elway's take on him.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

backup qbs aren't really supposed to be security policies. they're just there. if your starting qb goes down, you don't look to the 2 and go, whew at least we have this guy as a security policy.

so why deal with the tebow circus for any longer than you really have to?

Why bother having a backup QB then? They should just use that roster spot for another position and throw in a punter or a lineman or something if the starter goes down.

[Revis is your daddy]

Why bother having a backup QB then? They should just use that roster spot for another position and throw in a punter or a lineman or something if the starter goes down.

If we had a viable option at backup QB last year after Sanchez the year might have finished very differently. Instead of Mark taking a beating playing hurt because there is no other option maybe he takes a week off and recovers. Not blaming injury for all his shortcomings last season but it was obvious he wasn't playing at 100% when everytime he takes a hit he runs bent over to the sidelines holding his throwing shoulder.

[Demosthenes9]

You make it sound like Elway just has some kind of prejudice about having a certain kind of Qb. I think he prefers to have a Qb who he thinks will be successful in the NFL, and that Tebow is not that kind of Qb. It's not a question of some disembodied ideal, but rather of what works, what is necessary, in the NFL.

Plus Elway is not merely a former player. He's been the GM of hte Broncos for two years now.

"still evaluating" I call BS. Assessing someone as a draft pick involves a whole lot less information than having a player on your team for two years. Just give that one up, and we will call it a day. You can have your opinion that Tanny, not a football guy, Woody, who knows even less, and Ryan, a defensive guy, know how to assess Qb's better than John Elway, but I like my argument better.

Hmm, let's see, here's John Elway prior to the start of the 2011 season, before John Fox was even hired.

Elway said the film he's watched shows Tebow to be "very raw," especially when it comes to the fundamentals of being a pocket passer and "anticipating throws."

"Those are the things that he has to get a lot better at," Elway said. "He's got the intangibles. He's going to make the plays that you can't coach, as he did against Houston. He's going to make those plays, but he's got to be able to, for us to win a championship, he's got those intangibles, but he's got to win it from within the pocket."



Of course Elway "has some kind of prejudice about having a certain kind of Qb" as his very own words indicate that fact.

[Chrebet86]

I put this up in another thread but Ill bring it over here to.

Just a side thought, but while I was watching the analysts today talk about the locker room chemistry BS blah blah blah, it occurred to me that Tebow can have a positive effect on the locker room.

At least on Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez.

Holmes who was probably more at fault with that crap from last year will now be forced into being best friends with Sanchez.

He wants the ball so much, well then he better get HIS ass in gear and get on the same page with Mark.

If they can get in sync well then that means more touches, and the playcalling will lean towards their part of the offense.

[Italian Seafood]

Lack of rhythm in the O, division in the fanbase, home games not only with fans booing Sanchez but rooting for his replacement with Tebow, division in the locker room along the same lines.

We've had that already, even in good years, before Tebow got here. None of that gains or loses you a yard, so what?

A more complicated offense, yes, even than Schotty's, using plays that are for Sanchez as well as ones for Tebow, and the O having to learn them and practice them.

I see plenty of downside, but most of all that the focus will be somewhat other than helping Mark Sanchez better learn how to read D's.

Sanchez is either going to improve on his own or he's not. He's played three years now, been to the playoffs, there's no more need for mentors, etc. He's the starting QB, he'll get the focus from the coaches, if anything Sparano's offense figures to be simpler than the previous one.

Anything could backfire in theory, but we've not given up much here and we've added a big piece in Tebow. It's not like our offense was humming along up to now, not like we had a great locker room and happy fan base, so I don't see any of this as a problem. It already had to be fixed.

[JetBlue]

You make it sound like Elway just has some kind of prejudice about having a certain kind of Qb. I think he prefers to have a Qb who he thinks will be successful in the NFL, and that Tebow is not that kind of Qb. It's not a question of some disembodied ideal, but rather of what works, what is necessary, in the NFL.

Plus Elway is not merely a former player. He's been the GM of hte Broncos for two years now.

"still evaluating" I call BS. Assessing someone as a draft pick involves a whole lot less information than having a player on your team for two years. Just give that one up, and we will call it a day. You can have your opinion that Tanny, not a football guy, Woody, who knows even less, and Ryan, a defensive guy, know how to assess Qb's better than John Elway, but I like my argument better.
why use the sensational term "prejudice" when "preference" is just as good?

my position has nothing to do with siding with Tanny or Rex or Woody, it has to do with your reasoning for siding with Elway is flawed because being the GM in no way means he can evaluate talent, it means he convinced someone he was able to do the job. considering how many GM's in the history of the NFL have been bad, your position that his being the GM means he has the ability to evaluate talent is as flawed as saying that because he was a good player he has the ability to evaluate talent. both have empirical evidence disputing them. pointing that out certainly doesn't equate to siding with the Jets on this trade.

how many great QB's have been traded in their careers prior to developing? so, again, someone not seeing a player's talent in no way equates to that player not having it.

[74Mangold]

You make it sound like Elway just has some kind of prejudice about having a certain kind of Qb. I think he prefers to have a Qb who he thinks will be successful in the NFL, and that Tebow is not that kind of Qb. It's not a question of some disembodied ideal, but rather of what works, what is necessary, in the NFL.

Plus Elway is not merely a former player. He's been the GM of hte Broncos for two years now.

"still evaluating" I call BS. Assessing someone as a draft pick involves a whole lot less information than having a player on your team for two years. Just give that one up, and we will call it a day. You can have your opinion that Tanny, not a football guy, Woody, who knows even less, and Ryan, a defensive guy, know how to assess Qb's better than John Elway, but I like my argument better.

It's a great little argument, you'll get no argument there. If only the Jets were evaluating a starting Quarterback, the wonderful argument might hold a thimbleful of water. Shame.

The Jets are evaluating a Wildcat Quarterback. Elway is evaluating how to distance himself as far from a Wildcat Quarterback that is supposed to be a starting Quarterback as possible. How do you not understand this?

He's done with him, next stop, let's roll. We picked him up to do the EXACT thing that Elway got rid of him because it's all he could do. Do you want it in French?

[Rawrk]

Why bother having a backup QB then? They should just use that roster spot for another position and throw in a punter or a lineman or something if the starter goes down.

yeah, let's go real extreme with what i said.

it is just a backup qb. you are trying to make it out to be a more important position because you want to take away from tebow. the broncos could have kept tim tebow as a backup but they let him go! they must think he sucks!

again, it's just a backup qb. our backup qb last year was 50 years old. did you consider him a security policy for mark sanchez?

was drew stanton going to salvage our season if sanchez went down? this is the same qb who came into the detroit game a couple years ago to throw an incompletion on 3rd down to stop the clock and give us a chance to tie the game.

[Chrebet86]

yeah, let's go real extreme with what i said.

it is just a backup qb. you are trying to make it out to be a more important position because you want to take away from tebow. the broncos could have kept tim tebow as a backup but they let him go! they must think he sucks!

again, it's just a backup qb. our backup qb last year was 50 years old. did you consider him a security policy for mark sanchez?

was drew stanton going to salvage our season if sanchez went down? this is the same qb who came into the detroit game a couple years ago to throw an incompletion on 3rd down to stop the clock and give us a chance to tie the game.

Yea, our last backup QB was SUCH an important role in our offense....how many times di he see the field?

This guy has positives all around, except for the off field BS which is a HUGE downside, but hey hes here it is what it is.

We now have a guy with a skillset that if used right can make alot of things happen, make the team alot of money, put asses in seats(make fun of this all you want but this is huge our fanbase has been horrible since the new stadium)

And if their current plan doesnt work out, there is still the possibility that he could get better at Qb and maybe take over(I dont agree with that but in making a decision it doesnt hurt that theres still other possibilitys)

I believe the Jets took ALL these thing into consideration before making this trade.

[Section 227, Row 5]

We've had that already, even in good years, before Tebow got here. None of that gains or loses you a yard, so what?



Sanchez is either going to improve on his own or he's not. He's played three years now, been to the playoffs, there's no more need for mentors, etc. He's the starting QB, he'll get the focus from the coaches, if anything Sparano's offense figures to be simpler than the previous one.

Anything could backfire in theory, but we've not given up much here and we've added a big piece in Tebow. It's not like our offense was humming along up to now, not like we had a great locker room and happy fan base, so I don't see any of this as a problem. It already had to be fixed.

^Good one^

I welcome Tebow to the mix. He explained today that there's a lot more to the "wildcat" than just the usual formation.

If we can use his athletism in various formations (some even unimaginable or never-before-seen) and it confuses defenses, why not?

As far as the "QB Controvery," bring it on. This is the NY Jets. Who ever said it was easy. And if Sanchez should falter and lose his job, so be it.
Open up the competition man.

[typeOnegative13NY]

I've noticed that most jet fans i talk to that are older like the trade,and younger are not for it. I notice the same trend here(for the posters i know anyway). I know it doesn't have shit to do with shit,but just something i noticed.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

yeah, let's go real extreme with what i said.

it is just a backup qb. you are trying to make it out to be a more important position because you want to take away from tebow. the broncos could have kept tim tebow as a backup but they let him go! they must think he sucks!

again, it's just a backup qb. our backup qb last year was 50 years old. did you consider him a security policy for mark sanchez?

was drew stanton going to salvage our season if sanchez went down? this is the same qb who came into the detroit game a couple years ago to throw an incompletion on 3rd down to stop the clock and give us a chance to tie the game.

Brunell was the Jets insurance policy if Sanchez went down last season. It wasn't a good insurance policy, but that's EXACTLY what a #2 QB is, an insurance policy. They aren't on the roster just for shits and giggles.

[74Mangold]

Brunell was the Jets insurance policy if Sanchez went down last season. It wasn't a good insurance policy, but that's EXACTLY what a #2 QB is, an insurance policy. They aren't on the roster just for shits and giggles.

Geriatric Brunell is a weightier insurance policy than the sincerity that is Tim Tebow?

Yeah, maybe life insurance.

[Chrebet86]

Brunell was the Jets insurance policy if Sanchez went down last season. It wasn't a good insurance policy, but that's EXACTLY what a #2 QB is, an insurance policy. They aren't on the roster just for shits and giggles.

It pains me to type this but...its true.


Jets if Tebow had to come in as backup QB and start > Jets with Brunell (same role)

Tebow is not here to be Backup QB.

He is also not here to be Starting QB.

[Demosthenes9]

Brunell was the Jets insurance policy if Sanchez went down last season. It wasn't a good insurance policy, but that's EXACTLY what a #2 QB is, an insurance policy. They aren't on the roster just for shits and giggles.

Depends, as #2 QB's can play a number of roles, depending on the team. Sometimes, you get a vet who can both mentor a young starter and step in when needed. Other times, you have someone younger who will learn and grow as a QB, and hopefully, can step in when needed. He'll also provide competition for the QB.

Before Manning came to Denver and we talked about QBs on the forum, I made the point that when you have a young QB like Tebow, you don't bring in competition, rather, you bring in a mentor.

Seems that the Jet's have decided that Sanchez has been around long enough that the training wheels are off and that he will benefit now from competition. It's a transition that lot's of QBs have to make.

[Saint Chez]

Question to Tebow Fans: Do you see yourself becoming Jets fans and actually learning about and rooting for other players on this team? Or strictly backing Tebow?

[Rawrk]

Brunell was the Jets insurance policy if Sanchez went down last season. It wasn't a good insurance policy, but that's EXACTLY what a #2 QB is, an insurance policy. They aren't on the roster just for shits and giggles.

you're trying to make the backup qb spot into an important position and it's not. That's really all there is to it. there was no reason to keep tebow and his circus around because he lost all value to them as soon as peyton signed.

That's just what you do with backup qbs. If you have one that can fetch value, you deal them away because having a starter quality backup qb is a waste.

[Demosthenes9]

Question to Tebow Fans: Do you see yourself becoming Jets fans and actually learning about and rooting for other players on this team? Or strictly backing Tebow?

For me, it depends on how long Tebow is here. I've already started trying to learn about the team and will continue to do so. The longer he is here, the more the relationship will develop and the deeper my feelings/ties to the Jets will be.

[catsigater]

Question to Tebow Fans: Do you see yourself becoming Jets fans and actually learning about and rooting for other players on this team? Or strictly backing Tebow?
A lot of that has to do with being able to see the games. I happened to move from KC to Wyoming the same month Tebow was drafted. I got every Bronco game and got to know the team quite well.

Probably won't get as many chances to see the Jets, but who knows?

[Chrebet86]

you're trying to make the backup qb spot into an important position and it's not. That's really all there is to it. there was no reason to keep tebow and his circus around because he lost all value to them as soon as peyton signed.

That's just what you do with backup qbs. If you have one that can fetch value, you deal them away because having a starter quality backup qb is a waste.


Ya know what the BS about all this is.

Before the Jets and NY became "The place i this league for a player like Tebow.." all the Tebow naysayers, meaning everyone other than someone like Skip Bayless would say in their analysis of him was that "he is a great football player just not QB."

"there is a place for him in thisn league but we just do not know where, and it is not as a Qb."

"Its as a running back or Tight end or some other position that takes advantage of his skills."

And once that became NY and they could spin this into at least a years worth of work and material, they forgot all that.

And unfortunately we are the fans that will have to deal with the BS speculation untill the team actually takes the field. Whether or not it will be successful of course cannot be guranteed.

Just as any football season or gameplan.

[abyzmul]

Ya know what the BS about all this is.

Before the Jets and NY became "The place i this league for a player like Tebow.." all the Tebow naysayers, meaning everyone other than someone like Skip Bayless would say in their analysis of him was that "he is a great football player just not QB."

"there is a place for him in thisn league but we just do not know where, and it is not as a Qb."

"Its as a running back or Tight end or some other position that takes advantage of his skills."

And once that became NY and they could spin this into at least a years worth of work and material, they forgot all that.

And unfortunately we are the fans that will have to deal with the BS speculation untill the team actually takes the field. Whether or not it will be successful of course cannot be guranteed.

Just as any football season or gameplan.

Great post, and totally agreed.

[CowboysFan]

A lot of that has to do with being able to see the games. I happened to move from KC to Wyoming the same month Tebow was drafted. I got every Bronco game and got to know the team quite well.

Probably won't get as many chances to see the Jets, but who knows?

You can see every game streamed live on the internet.

[Sanchez Alvarez]

It's not just Skip Bayless that thinks Tebow can play.

Tim Tebow will thrive under the spotlight of NY.

The bigger the expectations the better for Tebow. He will be changing alot of minds around NY when the NY fans start watching him play in and play out ( and he will play alot).

The play calling in Denver was horrible(Charles Barkley, style)!

I think that Sparano will be much more in tune with Tebow and will be far more creative.

Seriously, my 84 year old mother was calling plays at an 85% rate (around our living room full of family watching Broncos games) it was such a joke. They didn't give Tebow a chance for most of the game and that was why the reputation of three quarters of bad play came about.

The kid can play at this level and play winning football (keep your dang completion percentage stats for your fantasy leagues) and that is why they play the game, to win.

[AbdulSalam]

I think Tebow is a pretty good football player regardless of what john elway thinks.


Hopefully John Elway has made a rocky mountain brainfart and that the Jets have stolen a great young QB w/great upside in exchange for a 4th Rd Pick and that Manning and his surgically repaired neck are on the DL by Halloween.

Elway may well enter NFL lexicon as a verb if this blows up on him - "He Elwayed the team right into the basement"...as in he made a colossally stupid decision to trade away the future of his team for a battered old vet w/a bunch of surgical scars and not much left in the tank.

[Biggs]

Ya know what the BS about all this is.

Before the Jets and NY became "The place i this league for a player like Tebow.." all the Tebow naysayers, meaning everyone other than someone like Skip Bayless would say in their analysis of him was that "he is a great football player just not QB."

"there is a place for him in thisn league but we just do not know where, and it is not as a Qb."

"Its as a running back or Tight end or some other position that takes advantage of his skills."

And once that became NY and they could spin this into at least a years worth of work and material, they forgot all that.

And unfortunately we are the fans that will have to deal with the BS speculation untill the team actually takes the field. Whether or not it will be successful of course cannot be guranteed.

Just as any football season or gameplan.

If he can cover a TE it will be a first safety to do it since we dumped Lowery.

[abyzmul]

It's not just Skip Bayless that thinks Tebow can play.

Tim Tebow will thrive under the spotlight of NY.

The bigger the expectations the better for Tebow. He will be changing alot of minds around NY when the NY fans start watching him play in and play out ( and he will play alot).

The play calling in Denver was horrible(Charles Barkley, style)!

I think that Sparano will be much more in tune with Tebow and will be far more creative.

Seriously, my 84 year old mother was calling plays at an 85% rate (around our living room full of family watching Broncos games) it was such a joke. They didn't give Tebow a chance for most of the game and that was why the reputation of three quarters of bad play came about.

The kid can play at this level and play winning football (keep your dang completion percentage stats for your fantasy leagues) and that is why they play the game, to win.

I have seen Tebow play a number of times and can't remember remarking more on what kinds of terrible throws a QB has made more than Timmy Boy. Every time they show a slow-mo of one of his rare completions, you can easily see what a horribly thrown ball it was, and how the intended receiver has to put himself in harm's way so many times to make it a completion.

He's not a good passer, and Denver tried to use him like one anyway. He has such a low Interception ratio because those incompletions were so off target that not a receiver nor defender could get to it.

He's a spread player foremost and will probably be used at other positions because of his athleticism. Get used to it.

[DisgruntledLionFan]

I have seen Tebow play a number of times and can't remember remarking more on what kinds of terrible throws a QB has made more than Timmy Boy. Every time they show a slow-mo of one of his rare completions, you can easily see what a horribly thrown ball it was, and how the intended receiver has to put himself in harm's way so many times to make it a completion.



It's amazing that he can't throw a spiral with any consistency. A lot of his passes look like punts by the time they reach the intended WR.

[Demosthenes9]

I have seen Tebow play a number of times and can't remember remarking more on what kinds of terrible throws a QB has made more than Timmy Boy. Every time they show a slow-mo of one of his rare completions, you can easily see what a horribly thrown ball it was, and how the intended receiver has to put himself in harm's way so many times to make it a completion.

He's not a good passer, and Denver tried to use him like one anyway. He has such a low Interception ratio because those incompletions were so off target that not a receiver nor defender could get to it.

He's a spread player foremost and will probably be used at other positions because of his athleticism. Get used to it.

Hmmm, not enough posts...

[Demosthenes9]

I have seen Tebow play a number of times and can't remember remarking more on what kinds of terrible throws a QB has made more than Timmy Boy. Every time they show a slow-mo of one of his rare completions, you can easily see what a horribly thrown ball it was, and how the intended receiver has to put himself in harm's way so many times to make it a completion.

He's not a good passer, and Denver tried to use him like one anyway. He has such a low Interception ratio because those incompletions were so off target that not a receiver nor defender could get to it.

He's a spread player foremost and will probably be used at other positions because of his athleticism. Get used to it.

OK, now I have enough.


Really ? Poorly thrown ball ?

You mean like this one to beat Pitt in overtime ?

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Or, you want more ??


BTW, I'm not even close to claiming that Tebow didn't throw some really ugly passes last year, but that said, he also threw a bunch of nice ones.

[JetBlue]

OK, now I have enough.


Really ? Poorly thrown ball ?

You mean like this one to beat Pitt in overtime ?

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Or, you want more ??

nobody is saying he has never made a good pass just that he has obviously been incapable of doing so consistently.

that wasn't a difficult throw. Denver ran the ball on every first down in the second half; I remember watching that game thinking a play action pass on first down would go for a huge chunk because there is no doubt Pittsburgh was going to come for the run on that play. and they did. and it did. not solely because of the throw but because of Pittsburgh's defense.

[abyzmul]

It's amazing that he can't throw a spiral with any consistency. A lot of his passes look like punts by the time they reach the intended WR.

Seriously, I saw one touchdown pass he threw turning end over end. Very punt-like. I had to replay it just to confirm how bad a pass it was. That's the norm for him, too. Of course sometimes he'll turn it on and throw some spirals, and then some jahoob will youtube it so Tebow's cult can use it as undeniable proof of his greatness.

[tebowfan15]

This is truly a joyous day.

I really look forward to rooting for the Jets this year. That press conference was very genuine.

God bless,

tb15

[DisgruntledLionFan]

Seriously, I saw one touchdown pass he threw turning end over end. Very punt-like. I had to replay it just to confirm how bad a pass it was. That's the norm for him, too. Of course sometimes he'll turn it on and throw some spirals, and then some jahoob will youtube it so Tebow's cult can use it as undeniable proof of his greatness.


He doesn't get the zip/spin on the ball that is required to step into the role of a good QB.

He's a thrower, not a passer, if that makes sense, and I don't think that's ever going to change. He's been working on his mechanics since his sophomore or junior year in college.

[74Mangold]

I think Tebow is a pretty good football player regardless of what john elway thinks.


Hopefully John Elway has made a rocky mountain brainfart and that the Jets have stolen a great young QB w/great upside in exchange for a 4th Rd Pick and that Manning and his surgically repaired neck are on the DL by Halloween.

Elway may well enter NFL lexicon as a verb if this blows up on him - "He Elwayed the team right into the basement"...as in he made a colossally stupid decision to trade away the future of his team for a battered old vet w/a bunch of surgical scars and not much left in the tank.

I like where your head is at and all....but I don't quite see John Elway rolling around on his death bed cursing the one who got away, Tim Tebow. That said, Manning could sure get carted off at any time and that will be about all the disaster Elway can live through on its own.

I'd be more than happy with one semi-productive option "Qb". Manning into early retirement would be icing on the cake but I'm rooting for him to be able to walk and stuff afterwards. Just so long as he doesn't fuck with the Jets in the playoffs no mo.

[CowboysFan]

I have seen Tebow play a number of times and can't remember remarking more on what kinds of terrible throws a QB has made more than Timmy Boy. Every time they show a slow-mo of one of his rare completions, you can easily see what a horribly thrown ball it was, and how the intended receiver has to put himself in harm's way so many times to make it a completion.

He's not a good passer, and Denver tried to use him like one anyway. He has such a low Interception ratio because those incompletions were so off target that not a receiver nor defender could get to it.

He's a spread player foremost and will probably be used at other positions because of his athleticism. Get used to it.

Check this out

OzdspnasHpw

[AbdulSalam]

BTW Tebow did an excellent job handling that presser today - comes across as an excellent person. Confident in who he is and happy for the opportunity to get to prove himself in NY. Nothing wrong with that.

Also I think the negative nellies are overstating things pretty heavily - the kid is a heckuva a good football player who can do alot of very good things on the football field.

[raortega3]

Quick question that has probably been asked a billion times:

If Tebow struggles this year but the Jets succeed, what happens to the Tebowmaniacs?

[Demosthenes9]

nobody is saying he has never made a good pass just that he has obviously been incapable of doing so consistently.

that wasn't a difficult throw. Denver ran the ball on every first down in the second half; I remember watching that game thinking a play action pass on first down would go for a huge chunk because there is no doubt Pittsburgh was going to come for the run on that play. and they did. and it did. not solely because of the throw but because of Pittsburgh's defense.

Actually Jet, some are saying that he can't pass even when I have made the argument and demonstrated that he CAN pass, but that he has a problem doing it consistently.

I believe Whichfan tried to make the same point and he faced a lot of argument about it as well.

As to the pass, look at the post that I was responding to, the one that said this:

Every time they show a slow-mo of one of his rare completions, you can easily see what a horribly thrown ball it was, and how the intended receiver has to put himself in harm's way so many times to make it a completion.


That one pass, while not that difficult, completely disproves what was said. That pass was not a "horribly thrown ball", rather, a tight spiral, it was on target, and it didn't put DT in harm's way.

[Demosthenes9]

Check this out

OzdspnasHpw


Cowboy, take a look at this one :)

rQmg3s8USFQ

[raortega3]

Check this out

OzdspnasHpw

One of many, the throw at 1:13 is FUNKY.

[AbdulSalam]

Quick question that has probably been asked a billion times:

If Tebow struggles this year but the Jets succeed, what happens to the Tebowmaniacs?

That's very unlikely to happen. What is most likely to happen is that Tebow continues to get better and the Jets have a great season.

[Demosthenes9]

Quick question that has probably been asked a billion times:

If Tebow struggles this year but the Jets succeed, what happens to the Tebowmaniacs?

Speaking for myself, I'll be happy that the team Tebow plays for is successful, and while Tebow struggled, I'll hope that he continues to grow and improve.

[CowboysFan]

One of many, the throw at 1:13 is FUNKY.

Sure runs like a beast though :grin:

[abyzmul]

Check this out

OzdspnasHpw

Hey sweet. I don't suppose you know where I could find a video with his incomplete passes, would you? Because they far outnumbered the complete passes, as nit-picked for quality as they are in that video.

[stinkyB]

The main local news channel kinda worked him this evening.......... They talked about his press conference and kept playing snippets of him saying "I'm very excited" (in various forms) repeatedly (20x+), as if they were bitter, or to appease the fans that were hoping he was going to the Jags. Didn't expect they'd do that to the golden child.

I guess the Wrath of Khan has more power than I realized.

[abyzmul]

He doesn't get the zip/spin on the ball that is required to step into the role of a good QB.

He's a thrower, not a passer, if that makes sense, and I don't think that's ever going to change. He's been working on his mechanics since his sophomore or junior year in college.

He always struck me as more of a rugby type of player, actually, and maybe it stems from that whole 'thrower' thing, which I don't disagree with. He's using the power of jeebus to propel the dead duck through the air at a high rate of speed.

[abyzmul]

The main local news channel kinda worked him this evening.......... They talked about his press conference and kept playing snippets of him saying "I'm very excited" (in various forms) repeatedly (20x+), as if they were bitter, or to appease the fans that were hoping he was going to the Jags. Didn't expect they'd do that to the golden child.

I guess the Wrath of Khan has more power than I realized.

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[74Mangold]

He always struck me as more of a rugby type of player, actually, and maybe it stems from that whole 'thrower' thing, which I don't disagree with. He's using the power of jeebus to propel the dead duck through the air at a high rate of speed.

We're sorry, but the person you are trying to reach is no longer listed at this number.

New tenant:

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[Rawrk]

Hey sweet. I don't suppose you know where I could find a video with his incomplete passes, would you? Because they far outnumbered the complete passes, as nit-picked for quality as they are in that video.

pAATerH70Dg

:rofl2:

[Jake]

Poll at ESPN.com shows 70% of the nation thinks Teblow will be starting QB for us at some point next year. Sanchez is a middle of the pack QB, but he's actually underrated, nobody thinks he's competent at all.

[CowboysFan]

Hey sweet. I don't suppose you know where I could find a video with his incomplete passes, would you? Because they far outnumbered the complete passes, as nit-picked for quality as they are in that video.

I would not say far outnumbered, actually barely 47% to 53%, its called basic math.

[Demosthenes9]

I would not say far outnumbered, actually barely 47% to 53%, its called basic math.

Oh man, you're using math skills, that just isn't fair. :)

[abyzmul]

I would not say far outnumbered, actually barely 47% to 53%, its called basic math.

That's a big number when you're talking about completion percentage. Ask any Patriots fan QB expert.

[DisgruntledLionFan]

pAATerH70Dg

:rofl2:

He was far worse in that WK17 KC game.

That was a brutal display with the division on the line.

[abyzmul]

Oh man, you're using math skills, that just isn't fair. :)

Using math to disprove what you see with your eyes is the job of biased NFL analysts and quantum physicists. You better go find some better math.

[CowboysFan]

That's a big number when you're talking about completion percentage. Ask any Patriots fan QB expert.

I'm just joking around.

Tebow has real sold intangibles, finds a way to be successful when everyone says he can't etc

Your team is better with him.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

you're trying to make the backup qb spot into an important position and it's not. That's really all there is to it. there was no reason to keep tebow and his circus around because he lost all value to them as soon as peyton signed.

That's just what you do with backup qbs. If you have one that can fetch value, you deal them away because having a starter quality backup qb is a waste.

What is your deal? You said:

backup qbs aren't really supposed to be security policies. they're just there. if your starting qb goes down, you don't look to the 2 and go, whew at least we have this guy as a security policy.

I disagreed and said they are an insurance policy. That's EXACTLY what they are. I'm not trying to make the backup QB position any more important than exactly what it is, an insurance policy. You are the one trying to distort what a backup QB is when you say they aren't an insurance policy and that "they're just there", as if teams should just go without one. If that were the case no NFL teams would have backup QB's. They all do. Every single one.

If Tebow really had all this upside that the Tebois seem to believe why the fuck wouldn't the Broncos just keep him there? They already spent a 1st round pick on him, spent two years grooming him and had him under contract. They just won the division and a playoff game with him. He could have learned and used the most awesomess work ethic ever to learn from one of the best NFL QB's of all time. They had more cap space than most every team so that wasn't an issue.

They obviously thought it was more trouble than it was worth to keep him around as an insurance policy. Either he doesn't really have much upside in the eyes of the Broncos management or the trouble that comes with having him on the roster outweighs whatever upside they believe he has.

[Demosthenes9]

That's a big number when you're talking about completion percentage. Ask any Patriots fan QB expert.

Your own words:

Because they far outnumbered the complete passes, as nit-picked for quality as they are in that video.

He had a whopping 18 more incompletions than completions out of 270 passes thrown, 144 to 126.

Hyperbole much ?

[VanderbiltJets]

217 pages of BS and counting... I only post in this thread to make it even more disorganized to the aggravation of ***** supporters...

[Demosthenes9]

Using math to disprove what you see with your eyes is the job of biased NFL analysts and quantum physicists. You better go find some better math.

Actually, it's really useful for calling out people who make hyperbolic statements on message boards, statements that aren't supported by facts, or even the eye test.

[Sanchez Alvarez]

Using math to disprove what you see with your eyes is the job of biased NFL analysts and quantum physicists. You better go find some better math.
I don't believe you watched much, more like heard and read (posts).

He threw enough good passes against the best defense in the NFL in the most important game of his career (playoffs). He broke several passing records doing it.

Do those passes count in your judgement or just the end over end "punts" that landed in the recievers arms for a touchdown (I recall you saying).

Winning is why they play the game and Tebow took the WORST team in the NFL (the two previous seasons) and who were 1-4 and had basically given up, to a divsion title and a their first playoff win in seven years.

Yeah, it's about completion percentage and how he looks thowing it, in his first starting season in the NFL.

Winning is for suckers!

[CowboysFan]

The main local news channel kinda worked him this evening.......... They talked about his press conference and kept playing snippets of him saying "I'm very excited" (in various forms) repeatedly (20x+), as if they were bitter, or to appease the fans that were hoping he was going to the Jags. Didn't expect they'd do that to the golden child.

I guess the Wrath of Khan has more power than I realized.

Gabbert had the 5th worst season in NFL history for a QB , yet if you go to the Jaguars forum you would think you were developing a young Dan Marino.

Why is that ? I ask it with sincere curiosity I'm not trying to be a dick.

[Bannon]

The main local news channel kinda worked him this evening.......... They talked about his press conference and kept playing snippets of him saying "I'm very excited" (in various forms) repeatedly (20x+), as if they were bitter, or to appease the fans that were hoping he was going to the Jags. Didn't expect they'd do that to the golden child.

I guess the Wrath of Khan has more power than I realized.

Even Jacksonville knows Jacksonville sucks -- everything about it. It's impossible to get them to think the problem is anything but them. :grin:

[abyzmul]

I don't believe you watched much, more like heard and read (posts).

He threw enough good passes against the best defense in the NFL in the most important game of his career (playoffs). He broke several passing records doing it.

Do those passes count in your judgement or just the end over end "punts" that landed in the recievers arms for a touchdown (I recall you saying).

Winning is why they play the game and Tebow took the WORST team in the NFL (the two previous seasons) and who were 1-4 and had basically given up, to a divsion title and a their first playoff win in seven years.

Yeah, it's about completion percentage and how he looks thowing it, in his first starting season in the NFL.

Winning is for suckers!

Oh, I watched enough to see a bad pocket passer. That's what he is. Say otherwise and you're deluding yourself. Completion percentage isn't the be-all end-all stat for a QB, but when it's so pathetically bad, you have to try to pay attention to why. His form is terrible. If he somehow jumps a light year to fix it, he'd be the best QB in the league, but my fan opinion is that I don't see him making those leaps in the next 2 seasons.

I think the Jets will use him well, in the aspects he's successful with, but not as a starting QB. He's just not an NFL QB now and likely won't be anytime soon. Yeah, he won a playoff game. At home. Big whoop, the Jets won 4 on the road. And they didn't get lucky enough to play against a crippled Ben Roethlisberger.

[Sanchez Alvarez]

The Jets weren't strapped with the worst talent for two years running either. The Broncos were the worst team in the NFL and were 1-4 when Tebow took over.

That's big.

There is no comparison between a Jets team loaded with talent and that are AFC Championship contenders year in and year out and the Denver Broncos, pre Tebow last season.

[abyzmul]

The Jets weren't strapped with the worst talent for two years running either. The Broncos were the worst team in the NFL and were 1-4 when Tebow took over.

That's big.

There is no comparison between a Jets team loaded with talent and that are AFC Championship contenders year in and year out and the Denver Broncos, pre Tebow last season.

Can you justify the bolded portion with any basis of fact?

[catsigater]

Even Jacksonville knows Jacksonville sucks -- everything about it. It's impossible to get them to think the problem is anything but them. :grin:

Jacksonville is the armpit of Florida.

[ace_o_spades]

Can you justify the bolded portion with any basis of fact?

Rex Ryan said they'd win the Super Bowl and this was the most talented roster he ever had!!11!!11!!!11!!12!

[Rawrk]

What is your deal? You said:


I disagreed and said they are an insurance policy. That's EXACTLY what they are. I'm not trying to make the backup QB position any more important than exactly what it is, an insurance policy. You are the one trying to distort what a backup QB is when you say they aren't an insurance policy and that "they're just there", as if teams should just go without one. If that were the case no NFL teams would have backup QB's. They all do. Every single one.

If Tebow really had all this upside that the Tebois seem to believe why the fuck wouldn't the Broncos just keep him there? They already spent a 1st round pick on him, spent two years grooming him and had him under contract. They just won the division and a playoff game with him. He could have learned and used the most awesomess work ethic ever to learn from one of the best NFL QB's of all time. They had more cap space than most every team so that wasn't an issue.

They obviously thought it was more trouble than it was worth to keep him around as an insurance policy. Either he doesn't really have much upside in the eyes of the Broncos management or the trouble that comes with having him on the roster outweighs whatever upside they believe he has.

the trouble of having tebow around outweighs the value he would have to the broncos as a backup qb.

obviously, i don't think teams should go around not having a backup qb. injuries happen. you'd like to field a team. but you could pick up a backup anywhere. that's where i'm saying they have very little value. you can just go out and sign a backup qb. it doesn't really matter who it is. would it have mattered if it was drew stanton or brady quinn as our backup this year?

as soon as peyton signed the contract, tebow's value to the broncos dropped to 0. sorry, even as a "security policy," the circus that follows tebow around is not worth it if he's sitting behind peyton manning. it is a no-brainer to get rid of tebow at that point.

i don't think anyone learns from peyton. because i think peyton is one of those really smart guys who can do everything but probably can't teach. he just gets it. curtis painter obviously didn't learn anything sitting behind him for a couple years. caldwell seemed pretty clueless without peyton around. peyton isn't going to groom tebow because they're never going to play a similar style of qb.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Gabbert had the 5th worst season in NFL history for a QB , yet if you go to the Jaguars forum you would think you were developing a young Dan Marino.

Why is that ? I ask it with sincere curiosity I'm not trying to be a dick.

What is the measure you're using to rate Gabbert 5th worst? I can think of a bunch of worse seasons right off the top of my head and that's without leaving the city of NY.

Seriously Joe Pisarcik wants to talk to you twice as does Richard Todd.

Gabbert's 2011 season was actually not even close to an all-time bad season.

[MrNoise]

The polls on ESPN and NFL Network have some interesting results

ESPN poll Who should start for the Jets? 51/49 in favor of Sanchez

NFL Network poll 70/30 in favor of Tebow

[CowboysFan]

What is the measure you're using to rate Gabbert 5th worst? I can think of a bunch of worse seasons right off the top of my head and that's without leaving the city of NY.

Seriously Joe Pisarcik wants to talk to you twice as does Richard Todd.

Gabbert's 2011 season was actually not even close to an all-time bad season.

Here you go

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[thegreatwayne80]

obviously i didnt get the chance to read all 4000+ posts in this thread but ive caught a few. anyone think that sanchez and tebow on the field together is a possiblity? if rex is talking about 20 snaps for tebow i would think that having them both on the field together would be the case. And before i get shit on look at tebows comments in the interview....he talked about how he thinks hes a quarterback but is a football player first maybe theres something that can be taken from that

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Here you go

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Footballoutsiders database goes back less than a decade.

5th worst all time?

[DisgruntledLionFan]

Footballoutsiders database goes back less than a decade.

5th worst all time?

Think it goes back to 1992, but nonetheless, your point still stands.

[MrNoise]

obviously i didnt get the chance to read all 4000+ posts in this thread but ive caught a few. anyone think that sanchez and tebow on the field together is a possiblity? if rex is talking about 20 snaps for tebow i would think that having them both on the field together would be the case. And before i get shit on look at tebows comments in the interview....he talked about how he thinks hes a quarterback but is a football player first maybe theres something that can be taken from that
It would be interesting to see if they can and do do that. Have a two QB system where both would always be on the field. They both have the ability to catch a ball, but Sanchez's blocking is suspect and both would need to develop route running.

Still it would be hard to defend if they did not have shuttle both QBs off the field and Sanchez would play WR on Wildcat formations and Tebow play TE/HB/FB on the base offense. Since both are in the huddle when they break they could pick either offense to run and teams might not have the right personnel to defend them.

Also many possibilities arise such as motion snaps or direct snaps to Tebow and Sanchez.

[CowboysFan]

Footballoutsiders database goes back less than a decade.

5th worst all time?

5th worst in 20 years then , dose Gabbert suck less because of it ?

[jetsflow]

NY is a melting pot.. is there enough christians here for tebow to succeed? Or does tebow mania die?

[PraisebetoRevis]

II'm really starting to hate Tebow purely from the asshole newcomers on these boards who feel the need to mention Tebow in every thread.

They make me miss the days where Milcus was the worst poster on these boards.

5th worst in 20 years then , dose Gabbert suck less because of it ?

Do you know what the word "decade" means? Or "less than"?

[xmscott]

It is highly improbable that Mark Sanchez, notable in recent days mostly for his absence, can hold off the Tebow tidal wave over the long haul. Sanchez, we know by now, has up-and-down seasons. In 2011, in early October, he threw for 119 and 166 yards in successive, ugly losses against the Ravens and Pats. In late November into December, Sanchez had a four-game stretch where he threw for under 200 yards against four very different opponents. A repeat of either slump will likely now cost him the starting job, at least until Tebow loses it right back to him. A nagging injury might do the same.

Tebow, a model spokesman Monday in gray suit and green tie, said he was “blessed” to join this roguish team — not exactly the word used by Jet players at the end of last season.

“I will give my whole heart to being the best Jet I can be,” Tebow said.

He’ll be giving his whole heart to the starting quarterback spot by December, you can bet on that. The irresistible marketing force has landed.

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And go.........

[Br4dw4y5ux]

5th worst in 20 years then , dose Gabbert suck less because of it ?

He was a raw rookie. Who knows what he's going to look like in 2 years?

I'll bet Eli Manning was one of the guys with the worse seasons, his rookie year. David Carr was certainly not. One of those guys has two Super Bowl rings as a starter now and the other gets the shakes on the football field as his backup.

Life as an NFL QB is largely based on who drafted you and what kind of plan they have and who is around you. The Jacksonville Jaguars have had one above average NFL QB in 15 years of existence now. They just don't do a good job of creating value at that position and Mark Brunell is the only plus guy for more than a year or two.

The Jets unfortunately also do not do well with QB's. The one guy they have developed in the last two decades who was clearly very good was also limited by his arm strength and was injured so often his career crumbled eventually. Why was he injured so often? Well it sure didn't help that the Jets repeatedly let offensive linemen get away from them because they weren't sexy marketing tools.

[TimeSquareTim]

I wish the season started tomorrow! I'm SO excited! "I can't wait!" (bart scott voice)

[Demosthenes9]

He was a raw rookie. Who knows what he's going to look like in 2 years?

I'll bet Eli Manning was one of the guys with the worse seasons, his rookie year. David Carr was certainly not. One of those guys has two Super Bowl rings as a starter now and the other gets the shakes on the football field as his backup.

Life as an NFL QB is largely based on who drafted you and what kind of plan they have and who is around you. The Jacksonville Jaguars have had one above average NFL QB in 15 years of existence now. They just don't do a good job of creating value at that position and Mark Brunell is the only plus guy for more than a year or two.

The Jets unfortunately also do not do well with QB's. The one guy they have developed in the last two decades who was clearly very good was also limited by his arm strength and was injured so often his career crumbled eventually. Why was he injured so often? Well it sure didn't help that the Jets repeatedly let offensive linemen get away from them because they weren't sexy marketing tools.

Agreed. Cleveland is the same way, a graveyard for QBs who have lots of potential :)

[Demosthenes9]

Good interview with Chad Pennington on Sanchez and Tebow:


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[JetBlue]

People keep talking about the wildcat but wasn't that lining up a RB or WR as a QB. since Tebow is a QB lining him up as a QB isn't the wildcat.

but line Tebow up as the RB next to Sanchez in the shotgun and the defense will have no idea who the football is going to be snapped to on any given play. you can run it, throw it, option it, line a second RB on the other side and hand it off to him. the options are pretty limitless and all would keep defenses off balance without Sanchez ever leaving the field. Sanchez could just live in the shotgun like Brady and be the QB on every down.

[Demosthenes9]

People keep talking about the wildcat but wasn't that lining up a RB or WR as a QB. since Tebow is a QB lining him up as a QB isn't the wildcat.

but line Tebow up as the RB next to Sanchez in the shotgun and the defense will have no idea who the football is going to be snapped to on any given play. you can run it, throw it, option it, line a second RB on the other side and hand it off to him. the options are pretty limitless and all would keep defenses off balance without Sanchez ever leaving the field. Sanchez could just live in the shotgun like Brady and be the QB on every down.

Yeah, that would work. Other times, you could pull Sanchez off the field and he can come over and talk/plan with the coaches, and you can put Tebow in the shotgun, put Green beside him, like up 3/4 WRs and run Spread Option. Defense still won't know what's going on.

Then a refocused Sanchez could come back in and continue.

[abyzmul]

Yeah, that would work. Other times, you could pull Sanchez off the field and he can come over and talk/plan with the coaches, and you can put Tebow in the shotgun, put Green beside him, like up 3/4 WRs and run Spread Option. Defense still won't know what's going on.

Then a refocused Sanchez could come back in and continue.

I think one of the reasons the Jets ran so few WC plays in 2011 is that they let their 2 best blocking receivers, Braylon Edwards and Brad Smith, go via Free Agency. Plaxico Burress was a decent to fair blocker but he was also a slacking piece of dog crap so he was less than effective. Santonio Holmes is like a string bean, he can't block anybody. Chaz Schillenzzzzz is a china doll. Kerley is undersized and Turner is likewise a pretty skinny guy who struggles with leverage.

The Jets don't currently have the personnel to run that play.

[Demosthenes9]

I think one of the reasons the Jets ran so few WC plays in 2011 is that they let their 2 best blocking receivers, Braylon Edwards and Brad Smith, go via Free Agency. Plaxico Burress was a decent to fair blocker but he was also a slacking piece of dog crap so he was less than effective. Santonio Holmes is like a string bean, he can't block anybody. Chaz Schillenzzzzz is a china doll. Kerley is undersized and Turner is likewise a pretty skinny guy who struggles with leverage.

The Jets don't currently have the personnel to run that play.

Simple solution to that is to line the WRs up wide and send them all up the field on verticals. You don't have to block people to get them out of the play, you just need to move them out of position.

With 4 wides, that moves 4 defenders down the field leaving 7. Coincidentally, you still have 7 offensive players around the LoS.

Blocking by the Oline is the key as not every defender even needs to be blocked. Backside of the defense can be influenced or sealed off.

If you want, go look at Denver's 2 pt conversion against Miami and you can see and example. Guards or Tackles can pull, or, slip through and get a block on the LB.

[abyzmul]

Simple solution to that is to line the WRs up wide and send them all up the field on verticals. You don't have to block people to get them out of the play, you just need to move them out of position.

With 4 wides, that moves 4 defenders down the field leaving 7. Coincidentally, you still have 7 offensive players around the LoS.

Blocking by the Oline is the key as not every defender even needs to be blocked. Backside of the defense can be influenced or sealed off.

If you want, go look at Denver's 2 pt conversion against Miami and you can see and example. Guards or Tackles can pull, or, slip through and get a block on the LB.

That only works with man coverage and even then only with bad defensive backs. There has to be a stay home audible if the QB is reading zone coverage and to do that you have to have receivers that can block at the LOS.

[GoPats]

Yeah, that would work. Other times, you could pull Sanchez off the field and he can come over and talk/plan with the coaches, and you can put Tebow in the shotgun, put Green beside him, like up 3/4 WRs and run Spread Option. Defense still won't know what's going on.

Then a refocused Sanchez could come back in and continue.

As a Patriots fan, I hope you're 100% correct. Because the NFL will eat this alive by Halloween. You can't survive long-term running a gimmick offense. It just doesn't work.

[Italian Seafood]

As a Patriots fan, I hope you're 100% correct. Because the NFL will eat this alive by Halloween. You can't survive long-term running a gimmick offense. It just doesn't work.

We've done pretty well for the most part with Sanchez and no Tebow, so adding a weapon to the mix I think will help. Think of a jacked up Brad Smith who can run you over and has more ability to pass.

[Demosthenes9]

That only works with man coverage and even then only with bad defensive backs. There has to be a stay home audible if the QB is reading zone coverage and to do that you have to have receivers that can block at the LOS.

Somewhat yes to the man2man coverage, and no to the bad defensive backs. If' it's man, then it doesn't matter how good the DBs are, they have to stay with the receivers and their backs will be turned to the line. Or, they'll be 10/20 yards downfield giving a cushion. It's one of the other. No DB can line up 4 yards off the LoS and backpedal 20 yards down the field trying to cover a WR.

If it's zone, the DBs still have to be back there covering their areas. Sending 4 verticals moves them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they will be completely off the field and can't possibly get in on the play. But if they are 20 yards down field, and they eventually make the tackle, that's still a successful play.

With all that out of the way, if the WC is actually Spread/Option, and if the coaches actually know what they are doing, then all plays will have both a run and pass option. QB reads the D when lining up and decides which play to run.

[Demosthenes9]

As a Patriots fan, I hope you're 100% correct. Because the NFL will eat this alive by Halloween. You can't survive long-term running a gimmick offense. It just doesn't work.

And no, they won't, unless the Jet's coaches are idiots like McCoy was.

[CowboysFan]

He was a raw rookie. Who knows what he's going to look like in 2 years?

I'll bet Eli Manning was one of the guys with the worse seasons, his rookie year. David Carr was certainly not. One of those guys has two Super Bowl rings as a starter now and the other gets the shakes on the football field as his backup.

Life as an NFL QB is largely based on who drafted you and what kind of plan they have and who is around you. The Jacksonville Jaguars have had one above average NFL QB in 15 years of existence now. They just don't do a good job of creating value at that position and Mark Brunell is the only plus guy for more than a year or two.

The Jets unfortunately also do not do well with QB's. The one guy they have developed in the last two decades who was clearly very good was also limited by his arm strength and was injured so often his career crumbled eventually. Why was he injured so often? Well it sure didn't help that the Jets repeatedly let offensive linemen get away from them because they weren't sexy marketing tools.

Do you see the irony in what you posted in first few sentences and what some people say about a first year , 24 year old starter named Tebow ?

I agree with everything you said though , good post.

[GoPats]

We've done pretty well for the most part with Sanchez and no Tebow, so adding a weapon to the mix I think will help. Think of a jacked up Brad Smith who can run you over and has more ability to pass.

I hear ya. Tebow played fairly well in the first half of the regular season Patriots-Broncos game last year. But once Belichick got a little game film and some time to game plan against it, it became obvious why the spread option offense has never worked at the NFL level. The playoff game should have been proof of that. Stay in position, tackle well, and don't try to be a hero... basically that's how you stop it.

I've never really been that down on Sanchez... I don't think he's been great all the time, obviously, but I don't think he's been nearly as bad as some NFL (and Jets) fans do. The strengths of the Jets (running game, defense) dropped off last season from what I saw, and Sanchez got overwhelmed at times. I still think he's going to be a solid NFL starter once he gains some experience and confidence. More of a headcase than a lost cause.

[CowboysFan]

II'm really starting to hate Tebow purely from the asshole newcomers on these boards who feel the need to mention Tebow in every thread.

They make me miss the days where Milcus was the worst poster on these boards.



Do you know what the word "decade" means? Or "less than"?

The database has been around since 1992 (the one they are pulling their info from but i could be wrong ).

I already agreed with Br4dw4y5ux, so no use debating this anymore but Gabbert had the 5th worst season since 1992 (again I could be wrong but that's how I see it) .

[GoPats]

And no, they won't, unless the Jet's coaches are idiots like McCoy was.

They won't... what? Eat it alive? Not sure what you're saying here.

[Demosthenes9]

I hear ya. Tebow played fairly well in the first half of the regular season Patriots-Broncos game last year. But once Belichick got a little game film and some time to game plan against it, it became obvious why the spread option offense has never worked at the NFL level. The playoff game should have been proof of that. Stay in position, tackle well, and don't try to be a hero... basically that's how you stop it.


Ummm, not really. They stopped it by switching up and running a 5-2 defense with their "ends" being lined up in 3tech and 5tech.

McCoy either never noticed/figured it out, or, due to his lack of knowledge of read/option and spread/option, didn't know how to attack it.

[dmarz45]

I wish the season started tomorrow! I'm SO excited! "I can't wait!" (bart scott voice)

Hey dude.. were you a Broncos fan last season??? Why switch? Broncos are looking pretty good this season man....

[GoPats]

Ummm, not really. They stopped it by switching up and running a 5-2 defense with their "ends" being lined up in 3tech and 5tech.

McCoy either never noticed/figured it out, or, due to his lack of knowledge of read/option and spread/option, didn't know how to attack it.

Not a true 5-2, based on personnel.

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McCoy may have known how to attack it but he also knew his quarterback couldn't consistently make the throws needed to do it.

The Broncos did a nice job of capitalizing on a short field after the Brady INT, but after that, they gained 29 yards on their next 22 plays going into the half.

And as any Jets fan will tell you... the Patriots' defense last year was pretty awful for the most part.

[JetBlue]

Yeah, that would work. Other times, you could pull Sanchez off the field and he can come over and talk/plan with the coaches, and you can put Tebow in the shotgun, put Green beside him, like up 3/4 WRs and run Spread Option. Defense still won't know what's going on.

Then a refocused Sanchez could come back in and continue.

I don't want the Jets shuffling QB's. hopefully Tebow is used as a weapon for the offense in conjunction with Sanchez, not replacing him on the field. if Sanchez needs plays off to refocus the Jets have a big problem.

[northernjet]

Hell, just to be a good sport I hope the first time Tebow goes out there he throws a pick or something just to get people off of Sanchez's back. If he goes out and has a huge scoring play then people are going to be calling for Sanchez's head on game one if not during the pre-season.

Mostly joking there because I do have faith in Sanchez but, really, if Tebow wins the starting job by out performing Sanchez then we still win in that scenario as now we have a better starting QB. You can gripe about Sanchez's contract and whatever but ultimately the goal is to win football games and it doesn't matter who gets paid what, if we win more football games with Tebow then fans should be happy. I couldn't care less who we had under centre as long as they are helping us win games.

[Biggs]

Hell, just to be a good sport I hope the first time Tebow goes out there he throws a pick or something just to get people off of Sanchez's back. If he goes out and has a huge scoring play then people are going to be calling for Sanchez's head on game one if not during the pre-season.

Mostly joking there because I do have faith in Sanchez but, really, if Tebow wins the starting job by out performing Sanchez then we still win in that scenario as now we have a better starting QB. You can gripe about Sanchez's contract and whatever but ultimately the goal is to win football games and it doesn't matter who gets paid what, if we win more football games with Tebow then fans should be happy. I couldn't care less who we had under centre as long as they are helping us win games.

If Tebow wins the starting job we need a new GM. You can't have a bust at 6 and trade up for a bust at 5 the following year.

[Demosthenes9]

Not a true 5-2, based on personnel.

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McCoy may have known how to attack it but he also knew his quarterback couldn't consistently make the throws needed to do it.

The Broncos did a nice job of capitalizing on a short field after the Brady INT, but after that, they gained 29 yards on their next 22 plays going into the half.

And as any Jets fan will tell you... the Patriots' defense last year was pretty awful for the most part.

5 guys lined up on the LoS for damned near every play, is a 5-2 defense :)

I'll have to go back and watch the first game against the Pat's and take another look, cause I don't recall them using the same alignment. I could have sworn that they basically stayed with a 3-4, it's just that they moved their tackles out wider.

And no, McCoy didn't know how to attack it.

[Demosthenes9]

I don't want the Jets shuffling QB's. hopefully Tebow is used as a weapon for the offense in conjunction with Sanchez, not replacing him on the field. if Sanchez needs plays off to refocus the Jets have a big problem.

I don't know. I mean, I've seen Sanchez playing remarkably well and I've also seen him get down and the dumps and a bad play kind of triggers a slide, you know, one mistake leading to another and another.

What comes to mind right now is basketball. A team is up, they they start doing stupid things and it gets kind of compounded. All of a sudden, the other team has gone on a 10-0 run. What do coaches do ? They call time out and give the players a chance to regroup. And yeah, they might send in substitutions.

If Rex can figure out how to get the "good" Sanchez on the field and bring the "bad" Sanchez off the field now and then and let him get his wits about him, that won't be a bad thing.

Might be a pipe dream, but, I think it has to be in their minds.

[GoPats]

5 guys lined up on the LoS for damned near every play, is a 5-2 defense :)

I'll have to go back and watch the first game against the Pat's and take another look, cause I don't recall them using the same alignment. I could have sworn that they basically stayed with a 3-4, it's just that they moved their tackles out wider.

And no, McCoy didn't know how to attack it.

More of a wrinkle to their base 3-4, but it's all semantics. :)

Check the link, it's actually a good recap of the difference between the two games.

I'm not giving you a hard time on purpose here... I just don't think the offense that Denver ran under Tebow will work consistently in the NFL.

[Demosthenes9]

More of a wrinkle to their base 3-4, but it's all semantics. :)

Check the link, it's actually a good recap of the difference between the two games.

I'm not giving you a hard time on purpose here... I just don't think the offense that Denver ran under Tebow will work consistently in the NFL.

Kind of semantics. If they had run a 3-4 and just had dual blitzers every now and then, I'd agree with you. But, it sure seems like they had 5 guys on the Dline on damned near every play, three of them down, 2 standing.

I did read the link which I why I questioned that they had used the same scheme in the first game. Guess I'll go back and watch that game yet again to see.

I understand what you are saying about the offense that Tebow ran, and I have heard it sooooo many times. "Just wait until NFL teams have some tape, then they'll stop it".

Guess what >? The NFL has plenty of tape of teams running from the I formation, from 2 back sets, from the shotgun with 3,4, or 5 recievers. There isn't an offense out there that teams don't have tape on, yet not all teams can be stopped all the time. Why would the Read/Option or the Spread Option be any different ?

[displacedfan]

I don't know. I mean, I've seen Sanchez playing remarkably well and I've also seen him get down and the dumps and a bad play kind of triggers a slide, you know, one mistake leading to another and another.

What comes to mind right now is basketball. A team is up, they they start doing stupid things and it gets kind of compounded. All of a sudden, the other team has gone on a 10-0 run. What do coaches do ? They call time out and give the players a chance to regroup. And yeah, they might send in substitutions.

If Rex can figure out how to get the "good" Sanchez on the field and bring the "bad" Sanchez off the field now and then and let him get his wits about him, that won't be a bad thing.

Might be a pipe dream, but, I think it has to be in their minds.

I watch a lot of basketball and what you are describing will not work in football. When a team goes on a run in football, it means offense/special teams/defense steps up all around and the team that has the lead falls apart on defense/special teams/offense. In basketball, players play both ways so calling a timeout and subbing them make sense. If the team has its starters out there, they usually call a timeout and leave the starters in. This is a bad analogy in my opinion. You can't compare a run in basketball to one in football. Also, you call the TO in basketball to find a way to contain the guy on fire. In the NFL you don't use timeouts to stop momentum or make adjustments since there is so much stopping in between plays. I don't like this analogy and it won't work for the Jets in my opinion

[Demosthenes9]

I watch a lot of basketball and what you are describing will not work in football. When a team goes on a run in football, it means offense/special teams/defense steps up all around and the team that has the lead falls apart on defense/special teams/offense. In basketball, players play both ways so calling a timeout and subbing them make sense. If the team has its starters out there, they usually call a timeout and leave the starters in. This is a bad analogy in my opinion. You can't compare a run in basketball to one in football. Also, you call the TO in basketball to find a way to contain the guy on fire. In the NFL you don't use timeouts to stop momentum or make adjustments since there is so much stopping in between plays. I don't like this analogy and it won't work for the Jets in my opinion

It was a loose analogy :)

Sure, you call a TO to douse the guy that's on fire, but you also call a TO to get your teams heads back in the game and get them on track so that they can play the way that they had been playing earlier.

I'm not advocating that Rex should pull Sanchez any time he makes a mistake. It's more of a gut feeling kind of thing. If he gets down on himself and sullen, and is just going to continue to make mistakes, trot Tebow out there while the coaches deal with Sanchez.

The thing I have seen with Tebow is that he just doesn't get down on himself and he doesn't let bad play/plays affect him. He can throw a pick and yet he's still full of confidence and optimism.

I don't know, maybe that will rub off on Sanchez and the rest of the locker room.

[jlee499]

Just for arguments sake... What will all the naysayers do if by some 'miracle' the Jets have the best year ever and 'actually' go to the SB? We pick up the right players in the Draft; a WR that opens Holmes up; depth and in FA we get a good RT. Then, Spanano calls all the right plays on offense, using Sanchez and Tebow perfectly.

Seriously though, what if both Sanchez and Tebow have a good year and work well together in a new and improved offensive scheme?

[Demosthenes9]

Just for arguments sake... What will all the naysayers do if by some 'miracle' the Jets have the best year ever and 'actually' go to the SB? We pick up the right players in the Draft; a WR that opens Holmes up; depth and in FA we get a good RT. Then, Spanano calls all the right plays on offense, using Sanchez and Tebow perfectly.

Seriously though, what if both Sanchez and Tebow have a good year and work well together in a new and improved offensive scheme?

The universe will collapse ?

[mr nyjet]

If Tebow wins the starting job we need a new GM. You can't have a bust at 6 and trade up for a bust at 5 the following year.

we need a new real general manager regardless of that........

the giants have one, and have won 2 super bowls while our genius have a perfect 0-fer.:sad:

[mr nyjet]

Just for arguments sake... What will all the naysayers do if by some 'miracle' the Jets have the best year ever and 'actually' go to the SB? We pick up the right players in the Draft; a WR that opens Holmes up; depth and in FA we get a good RT. Then, Spanano calls all the right plays on offense, using Sanchez and Tebow perfectly.

Seriously though, what if both Sanchez and Tebow have a good year and work well together in a new and improved offensive scheme?

it's the subject of next week's episode of " FRINGE". :drunk:

[TheGreenCantona]

Fresh off the wire:

Tebow will play in the 4 position following STATs bulging dick! He sees himself as a sportsman first, qb second and willing to play anywhere as it is exciting to be a newyorker.

[whichfan]

An interesting article talking about Jaguars' Khan displaying some regret over missing out on Tebow and Tebow choosing the Jets over Jacksonville.


"That would have been the worst thing for Jacksonville and the worst thing for him," Khan told Ganguli of the possibility of sending the Broncos a third-round pick for Tebow even after it was clear he didn't want to go to Jacksonville. Denver instead received a fourth- and sixth-rounder from the Jets and sent Tebow and a seventh-rounder back east.

"He didn't want to come, obviously. … Any one of the 53 players we have, have to be committed to Jacksonville, making us be the best team we are," Khan continued. "The question was: Did he want to come? And if the decision had been taken out [of his hands] and we got him, that would not be good for him, or for us."

Tebow has been on Khan's radar since he agreed to by the Jags in November 2011. General manager Gene Smith, meanwhile, didn't think Tebow was worth pursuing in 2010 and apparently those feelings hadn't softened in the years since. Still, Khan asked Smith why the team passed on Tebow when he came out of college. According to Tanguli, "Smith showed him all of his research and explained the move. Smith told him he felt like there were better choices in the position the Jaguars were in that year (10th overall)."

Jacksonville ended up with defensive lineman Tyson Alualu.

Undeterred, Khan told Smith to be prepared to go after Tebow should he become available this offseason.

"He's special to Jacksonville," Khan said. "Preparing for the possibility, if it happens, you want to be ready. These aren't decisions you make impulsively. … This was kind of an unhealed wound over time."

One problem: Tebow wasn't interested.

In general, that's hardly noteworthy; players choose one team over another for any number of reasons -- geography, personnel, coaches, chances to win a title. But why would Tebow elect to go to a dysfunctional organization in the sport's biggest media market instead of playing in his hometown among some of his most ardent fans?

Tebow official response: he was more comfortable with the Jets coaches, but that can't be the primary reason?

“Frankly, I thought he would be picking Jacksonville because of the chance to play in his hometown,” Khan said. “But this is a free country, and he has the right. I would be disappointed if he was in [Jacksonville] but didn't want to be here. …


I find it hard to believe if Khan wanted Tebow as much as he's talking about in this article, that Tebow would have not gone there unless he's being promised a starting job here or he really didn't have a choice. Why in the fug would a quarterback want to be part of this mess instead one of the best rushing teams and defenses in the league with someone willing to build around him?

It's pretty clear Khan would have started him. I know Tebow wants to start. So he either had little choice, or he must feel very confident in winning the job from Sanchez.

[Bannon]

Jacksonville is a dumpster fire. Tebow shows great intuition in not wanting to go there.

Since when is it important to be in your hometown? So he's popular there. He's popular everywhere.

That won't get far when you're losing for a butthole organization in a butthole town.

[VanderbiltJets]

It's pretty clear Khan would have started him. I know Tebow wants to start. So he either had little choice, or he must feel very confident in winning the job from Sanchez.

Or he'd rather play back-up on a playoff contender than starter on one of the worst teams in the league...

[whichfan]

Or he'd rather play back-up on a playoff contender than starter on one of the worst teams in the league...

Do you have any idea how good the Jaguars defense and running game is? With Tebow running the offense they would have been crazy and compared to the Broncos, it's night and day. If he could take that team to the playoffs, no reason why he couldn't do it with that defense and an offense built around him.

I don't see how you think he would see this as a better chance getting to the playoffs with the Patriots in his division, and also considering the way in which the Jets plan on using him. He would have had to deal with the Colts and a rookie QB, Titans, and the Texans, a great team, but nowhere near the road block the Patriots will be. And who the heck wants to be the NFL's first closer? Which is basically what the Jets are saying. Just cause he can handle pressure, doesn't mean he seeks it out. I don't buy that.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Do you have any idea how good the Jaguars defense and running game is? With Tebow running the offense they would have been crazy and compared to the Broncos, it's night and day. If he could take that team to the playoffs, no reason why he couldn't do it with that defense and an offense built around him.

I don't see how you think he would see this as a better chance getting to the playoffs with the Patriots in his division, and also considering the way in which the Jets plan on using him. He would have had to deal with the Colts and a rookie QB, Titans, and the Texans, a great team, but nowhere near the road block the Patriots will be. And who the heck wants to be the NFL's first closer? Which is basically what the Jets are saying. Just cause he can handle pressure, doesn't mean he seeks it out. I don't buy that.

Where do you come up with idea that the Jets are saying they want to use him as a 'closer'?

[whichfan]

Where do you come up with idea that the Jets are saying they want to use him as a 'closer'?

When they went on record saying if Mark's in there and the offense start stalling, that they would bring in Tebow? And then insist on him getting a certain amount of plays.

Sounds pretty much like that to me. Most quarterbacks take over for good. The started doesn't go back to being the starter if the back-up takes over and wins football games.

That's usually how the NFL operates.

[VanderbiltJets]

When they went on record saying if Mark's in there and the offense start stalling, that they would bring in Tebow? And then insist on him getting a certain amount of plays.

Sounds pretty much like that to me. Most quarterbacks take over for good. The started doesn't go back to being the starter if the back-up takes over and wins football games.

That's usually how the NFL operates.

So many logical fallacies... Too much effort to explain and correct...

[whichfan]

So many logical fallacies... Too much effort to explain and correct...


See this is what I was talking about in the other thread. It would have been even better should have saved your time and not even bothered to make that reply.

Clearly, you seek out Tebow discussions and then proceed to display your discontent with anything and anyone Tebow related.

[VanderbiltJets]

See this is what I was talking about in the other thread. It would have been even better should have saved your time and not even bothered to make that reply.

Clearly, you seek out Tebow discussions and then proceed to display your discontent with anything and anyone Tebow related.

False. If I took discontent to "anything tebow-related" then I'd be here all day trolling through posts.

First lesson: correlation vs causation. Just because you happen to be talking about tebow and I happen to be anti-tebow doesn't make
So many logical fallacies... Too much effort to explain and correct...
incorrect. Overall, replying to a post that is patently false is, IMO, a part of constructive engagement. However, given certain degrees of ignorance and idiocy in any given post, a short apt response is often necessary to retort what amounts to no semblance of logic.

[whichfan]

False. If I took discontent to "anything tebow-related" then I'd be here all day trolling through posts.

First lesson: correlation vs causation. Just because you happen to be talking about tebow and I happen to be anti-tebow doesn't make

incorrect.

Get over yourself. Just because you continue to make a bunch of generic statement about people(I loved the comment about you generalizing "Tebowites" as uninformed...good stuff) and you put yourself on a pedestal and have issues with others that hold players in much higher regard than you hold yourself...doesn't mean squat.

It usually means you're an annoying internet ass that rarely ads anything worthwhile do discussing the topic at hand while proclaiming to be intelligent.

What's that word? Oh yeah.....a stealth member troll.

PS: That's exactly what you are doing.

[alwaysthejets]

....

It's pretty clear Khan would have started him. I know Tebow wants to start. So he either had little choice, or he must feel very confident in winning the job from Sanchez.
I think of the two options you provided, it's likely something closer to "confidence/opportunity."

Especially since it's alleged Tim got "vibes" from Mularkey that he wanted no part of him playing their QB, regardless of what Khan wanted, and it's also alleged Mularkey wasn't interested in shifting his offense to fit Tim, he would have wanted Tim to shift to fit his offense. Something that may have wound up leaving Tim with lower probability of being successful. Unlike the Jets-- and Sparano-- who are going to create specific packages for him, and really wanted him. I think all of that factors, I truly do.

But, more so, one of the ESPN analysts said that they'd spoken to some individuals close to Tebow/the situation, and they said Tim made a "very deliberate and very shrewd" decision and they are under the impression that he doesn't want to harp on his reasons for picking the Jets publicly, because he doesn't want to feed any certain perceptions that he only took the job to try and eventually gain the starting job, and he doesn't want to offend people from his hometown, but...

Apparently, according to one of the ESPN Insider's, they say that Tim thought the Jets have coaches who want him, it's alleged that Tony Sparano has "wanted" Tebow as his QB since he and his coaching staff coached him at the Senior Bowl, it's alleged that Tebow thinks they have a top tier defense (and definitely a defense that will always be better than Denver's and Jacksonville's), the insider claims that Tim really thought "most" of the offensive line was "great", and they alleged Tim was "excited" about getting to be a QB to certain "skill talent players" and he likes the idea of having said "clutch skill guys" as part of "his" offense.

Apparently, while they didn't name the skill players, they did go on to say that Tim moves out of the pocket when passing a lot, and he scrambles a lot, something Tim's cognizant of, much like Big Ben does, scramble, I mean. They claim that Tim knows that we didn't really utilize "scramble keys" last season, but he knows he/Sparano can implement "scramble keys" with some of his "skill guys" and they'll likely have great success, and he knows some of the "skill guys" really want/like/thrive with "scramble keys" and they/they've been in systems that have utilized "scramble keys." The Insider said the real major negative that Tim saw, per this Insider, was that they have an incumbent QB, but apparently, even on that front, they believe Tim thinks that Mark is "vulnerable."

They also said he thinks if/when he gets his shot, he's going to have formed relationships/bonds and chemistry with the guys he'll have in "his huddle" and he thinks that it will be easier for him to win, and prove he should be starting in NY, if given an opportunity, than it ever was in Denver, and than it would be in Jacksonville.

Take this for whatever it's worth. They didn't name "who" close to Tim was said to be divulging this information, but they did a segment on Highlight Express on the ESPN Family of Networks, that's where I got this from. Some of the same things the ESPN Insider said... has also been allegedly heard by some of the ESPN First Take crew, too.

[VanderbiltJets]

Get over yourself. Just because you continue to make a bunch of generic statement about people(I loved the comment about you generalizing "Tebowites" as uninformed...good stuff) and you put yourself on a pedestal and have issues with others that hold players in much higher regard than you hold yourself...doesn't mean squat.

It usually means you're an annoying internet ass that rarely ads anything worthwhile do discussing the topic at hand while proclaiming to be intelligent.

What's that word? Oh yeah.....a stealth member troll.

PS: That's exactly what you are doing.
I don't have issues with "others that hold players in much higher regard than I hold myself"... That makes no sense. I've consistently said what matters most here is the JETS.

"Pedestal" in the world of internet boards is called a "sticky".

I take "annoying internet ass" to be a personal attack.

**Adds. "Ads" is short for "advertisements".

Read the definition of a troll (per TGG). Most pertinent part, to both insult myself and prove you wrong:
"Someone may be insufferable, infuriating, fanatical, and an ignorant idiot to boot without being a troll."

[whichfan]

It's alleged Tim got "vibes" from Mularkey that he wanted no part of him playing their QB, regardless of what Khan wanted, and it's also alleged Mularkey wasn't interested in shifting his offense to fit Tim, he would have wanted Tim to shift to fit his offense. Something that may have wound up leaving Tim with lower probability of being successful. Unlike the Jets-- and Sparano-- who are going to create specific packages for him, and really wanted him. I think all of that factors, I truly do.

But, more so, one of the ESPN analysts said that they'd spoken to some individuals close to Tebow/the situation, and they said Tim made a "very deliberate and very shrewd" decision and they are under the impression that he doesn't want to harp on his reasons for picking the Jets publicly, because he doesn't want to feed any certain perceptions that he only took the job to try and eventually gain the starting job, and he doesn't want to offend people from his hometown, but...

Apparently, according to one of the ESPN Insider's, they say that Tim thought the Jets have coaches who want him, it's alleged that Tony Sparano has "wanted" Tebow as his QB since he and his coaching staff coached him at the Senior Bowl, it's alleged that Tebow thinks they have a top tier defense (and definitely a defense that will always be better than Denver's and Jacksonville's), the insider claims that Tim really thought "most" of the offensive line was "great", and they alleged Tim was "excited" about getting to be a QB to certain "skill talent players" and he likes the idea of having said "clutch skill guys" as part of "his" offense.

Apparently, while they didn't name the skilly players, they did go on to say that Tim moves out of the pocket when passing a lot, and he scrambles a lot, something Tim's cognizant of, much like Big Ben does, scramble, I mean. They claim that Tim knows that we didn't really utilize "scramble keys" last season, but he knows he/Sparano can implement "scramble keys" with some of his "skill guys" and they'll likely have great success, and he knows some of the "skill guys" really want/like/thrive with "scramble keys" and they/they've been in systems that have utilized "scramble keys." The Insider said the real major negative that Tim saw, per this Insider, was that they have an incumbent QB, but apparently, even on that front, they believe Tim thinks that Mark is "vulnerable."

They also said he thinks if/when he gets his shot, he's going to have formed relationships/bonds and chemistry with the guys he'll have in "his huddle" and he thinks that it will be easier for him to win, and prove he should be starting in NY, if given an opportunity, than it ever was in Denver, and than it would be in Jacksonville.

Take this for whatever it's worth. They didn't name "who" close to Tim was said to be divulging this information, but they did a segment on Highlight Express on the ESPN Family of Networks, that's where I got this from. Some of the same things the ESPN Insider said... has also been allegedly heard by some of the ESPN First Take crew, too.


Interesting info. I personally don't put too much faith in "sources" and speculation from ESPN considering their agenda to stir the pot, but some of those those actually sound like somewhat valid reasons.

But if Tebow went to Jacksonville he wouldn't have been under any serious pressure to make the playoffs immediately. He likely would have gotten a lot of rope to work with, even if it meant, playing with Mularky now who would eventually be replaced if he didn't come on board. He would have been treated somewhat as a rookie over there.

It still makes little sense for Tebow not to publicly endorse his current team, at the expense of hurting the feelings of some other team, even if it was his home town.

[whichfan]

I don't have issues with "others that hold players in much higher regard than I hold myself"... That makes no sense. I've consistently said what matters most here is the JETS.

"Pedestal" in the world of internet boards is called a "sticky".

I take "annoying internet ass" to be a personal attack.

**Adds. "Ads" is short for "advertisements".

Read the definition of a troll (per TGG). Most pertinent part, to both insult myself and prove you wrong:
"Someone may be insufferable, infuriating, fanatical, and an ignorant idiot to boot without being a troll."

No actually I'd argue that's the very definition of it right there...along with following topics you have clear disdain for all day long and continuing to display that attitude.

Most of your comments are stealth personal attacks, to the general Tebow fan base of course, but considering there's only a small portion of them here, it's attacks geared towards those that post here.

[VanderbiltJets]

No actually I'd argue that's the very definition of it right there...along with following topics you have clear disdain for all day long and continuing to display that attitude.

Most of your comments are stealth personal attacks, to the general Tebow fan base of course

You need to read the definition of "troll" that TGG uses (To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.). You have your own interpretations of forum rules merely based on your own opinion.

Generalized attacks are second-nature among football fans. There's a difference between me saying "______ is a fucking idiot" and "all tebow supporters are fucking idiots" (which I never said). The latter is what I would expect from any real Jets fan.

You're assuming that pre-Tebow (you weren't here though) I went around only spouting negative criticisms of everything I didn't like.

but considering there's only a small portion of them here, it's attacks geared towards those that post here.
Great example of a logical fallacy.

[Jetzz]

Get over yourself. Just because you continue to make a bunch of generic statement about people(I loved the comment about you generalizing "Tebowites" as uninformed...good stuff) and you put yourself on a pedestal and have issues with others that hold players in much higher regard than you hold yourself...doesn't mean squat.

It usually means you're an annoying internet ass that rarely ads anything worthwhile do discussing the topic at hand while proclaiming to be intelligent.

What's that word? Oh yeah.....a stealth member troll.

PS: That's exactly what you are doing.

Pssssst.... Tebow sucks.


:up:

[alwaysthejets]

...
It still makes little sense for Tebow not to publicly endorse his current team, at the expense of hurting the feelings of some other team, even if it was his home town.
I thought their commentary was interesting, as well.

And, just in case I was unclear, while they did say that Tim doesn't want to burn any bridges as it pertains to his hometown of Jacksonville and those fans, they noted that his larger reasoning for not speaking publicly and in more detailed fashion on all that factored in to selecting the Jets i.e., the o-line, certain skill players, the defense, the coaches... comes from not wanting to rock the boat, and not wanting to create tension with Mark or anyone on the team, in regards to the "starting position."

He's apparently, if they're accurate, trying to avoid discussing his reasons for selecting the Jets reading like a guy who was looking at the situation from the vantage point of a guy who, not only picked his team, but also picked the team, because his goal is coming in to unseat the current starter and becoming the starting QB. That, per this ESPN Insider, is why he's treading carefully in what he says, as to avoid any potential conflicts, and to avoid seeming like he wants to pose a threat. He allegedly just wants to fly under the radar, well, as much as he can given the circumstances.

[CowboysFan]

First his own press conference now a sub forum! This is actually a real smart decision by the mods and admin.

[Professor Frink]

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.

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Greg Cosell is as good an analyst out there and he thinks this could work. Seems to me Tebow is a pretty good weapon if you're interested in running a power-running offensive scheme. I'm very curious to see how Sparano plans on using him.

[ozrodmd]

Tim will always be trying to unseat the incumbent starter and he will be relentless. Mark controls his own destiny though and could make the 2 headed QB work if he holds up his end.

[NY Dork]

Sanchez and Tebow fan here. So glad the mods made the move. It's five months until the regular season. No doubt the child like bickering about the QB situation will continue ad nauseum for all five months. Very smart to corral this ongoing yack.