Good McNight, Joe

[Green Lantern]

I've seen enough. Please end the inevitable already and send him packing to like 5 different teams over the next 4 years before he's selling car insurance.
Washington and Woodhead play like Jets. McNight plays like a bafoon.

[ace_o_spades]

Great thread....

[Mr Electric]

Gay McThread, Green Lantern.

[IATA]

Simple Lantern.

[MarionBarber31]

Rex went off on him in the postgame press conference. Says he'll make the team but won't suit up until they trust him

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Rex went off on him in the postgame press conference. Says he'll make the team but won't suit up until they trust him

Have we seen anything from McKnight that suggests he's even remotely NFL material? He seems to be awfully highstrung for a position that is going to take a beating every game.

[MarionBarber31]

Have we seen anything from McKnight that suggests he's even remotely NFL material? He seems to be awfully highstrung for a position that is going to take a beating every game.

To answer your question, no. I was just reporting what Rex said (via Cimini)

[talisaynon]

If i sucked as much as him at my job id have been laid off 15 minutes into sitting in my cubicle.

[Italian Seafood]

Have we seen anything from McKnight that suggests he's even remotely NFL material?

I haven't. I'd trust Washington or Woodhead before him in a game right now.

[Royal Tee]

No we can't!!

Don't you realize how many people already said he was the equivalent of Leon?
This man can't even stand in Leon's presence...

He looks Tentative, unsure and actually looks slow because of it.

[masivemunkey]

Have we seen anything from McKnight that suggests he's even remotely NFL material? He seems to be awfully highstrung for a position that is going to take a beating every game.

He's seems very gholston-ish. You can see that he's pretty quick, but is just so timid. Maybe he can get over that and be a good rb, but he definitely is way behind washington and even woodhead at this point.

[CatoTheElder]

He's good on PR. He needs to work on securing the ball better but the last guy to raise those complaints is now our starting HB. He's a project but he's showing potential now. This game won't come quick for him but he's showing more than Gholston ever did in his first season.

[Jetfanmack]

I haven't. I'd trust Washington or Woodhead before him in a game right now.

There's no question Woodhead and Washington are better players offensively right now. Woodhead's instincts, speed, physicality, and pass catching ability and Washington's size and impressive power make them better options right now than Joe McKnight.

But McKnight was a 4th rounder for a reason. I'd be very surprised if he was cut. While he certainly hasn't been impressive, he has a lot of raw tools there, and he's only a rookie. I'd say a rookie 4th round pick is cut in training camp once every 4 years or so. It's extremely rare. And it's not like we can't use him, he can return punts.

I think we end up trading Washington for a conditional late round pick next year. Hopefully some team that needs a runningback was impressed with him enough to do that. A lot of these mini-trades happen around this time of the year, from Earthwind Moreland to Kevin O'Connell.

[rex2009]

Typical over reaction by the usual group. Let's cut him after 4 pre-season game. Shut the fuck up! Give the kid a chance, it takes some players longer to fully develop. Anyone can see he has a load of talent. The coaching staff has to get it out of him.

[........]

What the fuck is a bafoon? Is that a cross between a baboon and a buffoon?

He's had problems in the preseason. Rex said he doesn't trust him. Of course he doesn't trust him. He can't hold on to the ball. He's dropped the ball. So has CW. McKnight's up 3 - 2 in that regard.

If Washington and Woodhead look more NFL ready at this point, it's because they've both been in the league for years. As in multiple. Each. And in that time, neither one has shown the same kind of potential as McKnight. Hell, Washington's on his 3rd team. So let's proclaim him exactly what he is: a rookie with a shitty preseason and a whole lot of talent who needs to catch up to the game mentally and get his fucking ball control fundamentals fixed. He's not a surefire bust by any stretch.

Either Washington or Woodhead is making the roster, and either one should play to start the season instead of McKnight and pick up his 1 or 2 carries that the offense demands. Neither one offers the same kind of long term promise, though, and there sure as hell won't be carries for both this season.

[CrashDMB237]

If McKnight makes this roster but the two people at his same position that CLEARLY outplayed him don't, I lose a little faith in Rex (VERY little, but some). I thought he was a no bullshit kinda guy who wouldn't keep a waste of a player on his roster just because he was a 4th round pick. He's been a nobody since high school. He was supposed to be the next Bush at USC, he failed. He was supposed to be the next Leon in NY, he will without a doubt fail if he hasn't already.

You don't think it was a HUGE red flag when Pete Carroll, his former coach, had a chance to draft him but took Leon Washington instead? It was a head-scratcher then and it's a blunder now.

[Jetfanmack]

What the fuck is a bafoon? Is that a cross between a baboon and a buffoon?

He's had problems in the preseason. Rex said he doesn't trust him. Of course he doesn't trust him. He can't hold on to the ball. He's dropped the ball. So has CW. McKnight's up 3 - 2 in that regard.

If Washington and Woodhead look more NFL ready at this point, it's because they've both been in the league for years. As in multiple. Each. And in that time, neither one has shown the same kind of potential as McKnight. Hell, Washington's on his 3rd team. So let's proclaim him exactly what he is: a rookie with a shitty preseason and a whole lot of talent who needs to catch up to the game mentally and get his fucking ball control fundamentals fixed. He's not a surefire bust.

Either Washington or Woodhead is making the roster, and either one should play to start the season instead of McKnight and pick up his 1 or 2 carries that the offense demands. Neither one offers the same kind of long term promise, though, and there sure as hell won't be carries for both this season.

Don't ever be so sure, runningbacks get hurt more than anybody. LT suffered nagging injuries each of the first two years in the first game. Greene hasn't proven he can stay healthy yet. If both stay healthy, then neither Washington nor Woodhead will have a big role. But if either one went down, Washington would stand to get some carries, and Woodhead would get a few and some catches from the backfield.

We ran over 600 carries last year. We'll need one or both at times this season most likely. Woodhead came up pretty big at times in the Carolina game last year for instance.

[NYJFan10]

And yet people were killing me in the game thread for suggesting Washington and Woodhead should be on the team over him. All McKnight does well is return, great...so did Desmond Howard. But he's got to be as good as Howard returning to have any use since he doesn't show any capacity to be a pro runner. People talk up his talent as if he's a first-rounder, he's a fourth-rounder for a reason. First-rounders you expect to contribute at some point. Fourth-rounders are maybes at best.

[AbdulSalam]

He has skills. but he fumbles. then again so does the rest of the team pretty much. the Jets have pretty much sucked on offense all camp, mcknight is no exception, he has sucked too.

[Jetfanmack]

If McKnight makes this roster but the two people at his same position that CLEARLY outplayed him don't, I lose a little faith in Rex (VERY little, but some). I thought he was a no bullshit kinda guy who wouldn't keep a waste of a player on his roster just because he was a 4th round pick. He's been a nobody since high school. He was supposed to be the next Bush at USC, he failed. He was supposed to be the next Leon in NY, he will without a doubt fail if he hasn't already.

You don't think it was a HUGE red flag when Pete Carroll, his former coach, had a chance to draft him but took Leon Washington instead? It was a head-scratcher then and it's a blunder now.

If you think Leon Washington can recover from this injury and be the player he once was, there's no question he's better than McKnight. He chose to take that gamble. He hasn't really gotten that many USC guys.

McKnight is a rookie. Woodhead is a few years out of school. So is Chauncey. Clearly, McKnight is struggling adjusting to what he needs to do to be successful. Will he ever get it? Who knows, but if the Jets saw enough in him to draft him in the 4th round and get rid of Washington (you can play it from that angle, too), he deserves at least two training camps to show whether or not he can stick.

[Scoffaveli3]

No way he gets cut...There would be teams frothing at the mouth to pick him up...Not saying that would be a correct decision, but they would

[CatoTheElder]

Don't ever be so sure, runningbacks get hurt more than anybody. LT suffered nagging injuries each of the first two years in the first game. Greene hasn't proven he can stay healthy yet. If both stay healthy, then neither Washington nor Woodhead will have a big role. But if either one went down, Washington would stand to get some carries, and Woodhead would get a few and some catches from the backfield.

We ran over 600 carries last year. We'll need one or both at times this season most likely. Woodhead came up pretty big at times in the Carolina game last year for instance.

I really don't see the Jets keeping 4 HBs on the roster just in case the #3 went down.

I think it's more likely that the Jets keep either Woodhead or Washington and if either of them wind up injured then Conner gets their one or two carries/game. Conner is really close to a Le'Ron McClain type FB.

[........]

If McKnight makes this roster but the two people at his same position that CLEARLY outplayed him don't, I lose a little faith in Rex (VERY little, but some). I thought he was a no bullshit kinda guy who wouldn't keep a waste of a player on his roster just because he was a 4th round pick. He's been a nobody since high school. He was supposed to be the next Bush at USC, he failed. He was supposed to be the next Leon in NY, he will without a doubt fail if he hasn't already.

Two questions:

1) What longterm potential do you think Washington and Woodhead have?
2) How many carries do you think will be available to the duo?

For the first question, I'd say 'pretty fucking limited'. For the second, I'd say 'pretty fucking few'. Unless one of the starters gets hurt, neither guy is getting carries. Why keep two guys to share a couple of carries per game when you know neither one is a future starter?

McKnight will stay on the roster because he has the tools to be a VERY good RB. He was a very good back at USC, and anyone who thinks he failed at the position wasn't paying attention. Anyone who thought he was supposed to fill Leon's shoes this season must have missed the Tomlinson signing.

If I had to guess, I'd say Woodhead may make the roster for two reasons:

1) Washington is still eligible for our practice squad. He hasn't spent 2 seasons on our PS and he hasn't logged enough active roster time to be ineligible. If Greene were to get hurt, he'd still be available.
2) Woodhead is more of a versatile player, which gives him more opportunities for immediate play.

Teams are going to watch CW's film and see him cough up the ball twice. I doubt anyone signs him off our PS and commit him to an active roster for 3 weeks.

You don't think it was a HUGE red flag when Pete Carroll, his former coach, had a chance to draft him but took Leon Washington instead? It was a head-scratcher then and it's a blunder now.

No, I don't. Pete had two young backs in Forsett and Ganther, and a vet in Julius Jones. He loves RB committees, and he wanted to bring in another guy who was immediately ready to compete. Leon was cheap and, if healthy, could be that guy. If he wasn't healthy, he was again cheap and he would be an easy cut with no contract past this season. He wasn't going to give McKnight a spot knowing that he needed time to develop. With the commitment to those 3 guys, it wasn't an option.

[GreenMachine]

Pete also grabbed Lendale White and Golden Tate. He knows character and work ethic.

[........]

Don't ever be so sure, runningbacks get hurt more than anybody. LT suffered nagging injuries each of the first two years in the first game. Greene hasn't proven he can stay healthy yet. If both stay healthy, then neither Washington nor Woodhead will have a big role. But if either one went down, Washington would stand to get some carries, and Woodhead would get a few and some catches from the backfield.

We ran over 600 carries last year. We'll need one or both at times this season most likely. Woodhead came up pretty big at times in the Carolina game last year for instance.

And Washington would be available on the PS. I don't see anyone picking him up based on his preseason performance and limited ceiling.

[CatoTheElder]

Pete also grabbed Lendale White and Golden Tate. He knows character and work ethic.

You're looking at college work ethic vs. pro work ethic. Two different things. Something Pete Carrol still needs to figure out.

[Mr Electric]

Good Conner, John.

ZOMG! Conner fumbled the ball tonight - let's cut his ass! We already have a really good fullback on the roster! Plus! He FUMBLED!!!!!!!11!!!!!

[BadgerOnLSD]

You don't think it was a HUGE red flag when Pete Carroll, his former coach, had a chance to draft him but took Leon Washington instead? It was a head-scratcher then and it's a blunder now.
Pete Carroll had a chance to draft a lot of his players, but only took one, and it was in the 6th round. I guess the other six that got drafted must be garbage.

[GreenMachine]

You're looking at college work ethic vs. pro work ethic. Two different things. Something Pete Carrol still needs to figure out.

I forgot my sarcasm emoticon

[BadgerOnLSD]

Pete also grabbed Lendale White and Golden Tate. He knows his tequila and how to give a towel a good stomping.
FYP.

Fillz

[CatoTheElder]

I forgot my sarcasm emoticon

I think this happens to me at least three times a week. I really could benefit from those, but what would it look like? It should probably have hair covering it's eyes and be smoking a cigarette.

Although I stand by my point about Pete Carrol.

FYP.

Fillz
Hey, that towel had it coming. For about 40 years.

[Miamipuck]

Look I am not a McKnight fan in any way shape or form. I am meh on him actually. The way he has conducted himself and has played this preseason leads a lot to be desired. He has looked out of sorts. Yes,on this we can all agree.

That said, if you can not tell the difference in talent and ability between him, C. Washington and D Woodhead, then I am sorry I do not have much to say. Fumbles aside, he is by far the most talented of the three.

I don't think it that big a deal for him to get this year as a redshirt year. I don't see the need for an over reaction. If the Jets need either Washington or Woodhead they are screwed anyhow.

[bloke911]

McKnight had a hard time transitioning to college ball from HS. When he figured it out he was able to contribute with 1k yards rushing. The kid can do damage on returns now. Rex is a hard ass and he will push this kid to his limits probably for the first time in his life. Give him a chance maybe he can surprise everyone.

[dcm1602]

With all the McKnight-Bush comparisons dont people remember how long it took Bush until he became useful ?

I mean for christ sake we drafted this guy in the 4th round to be our 3rd string backup.

If he doesnt take massive steps in 2 years when LTs tenure ends then lets cut his ass, till then quit yer whining

[NDmick]

Good Conner, John.

ZOMG! Conner fumbled the ball tonight - let's cut his ass! We already have a really good fullback on the roster! Plus! He FUMBLED!!!!!!!11!!!!!
And it was the ground!!!!!11111

WTF our rookies suck!!!! durrrr

[NDmick]

I really don't see the Jets keeping 4 HBs on the roster just in case the #3 went down.

I think it's more likely that the Jets keep either Woodhead or Washington and if either of them wind up injured then Conner gets their one or two carries/game. Conner is really close to a Le'Ron McClain type FB.
I was thinking that the minute Conner got the football today.

But with the talent the Jets have at RB, he's going to carry the ball 30 times this year. That's what I'm guessing.

And he can catch out of the backfield. He had that nice body control catch last week against the skins

[NDmick]

With all the McKnight-Bush comparisons dont people remember how long it took Bush until he became useful ?

I mean for christ sake we drafted this guy in the 4th round to be our 3rd string backup.

If he doesnt take massive steps in 2 years when LTs tenure ends then lets cut his ass, till then quit yer whining
McKnight-Bush isn't a fair comparison because Bush is lightyears better than McKnight and Leon Washington combined times a thousand. Jet fans will never admit to it.

The LW-McKnight comparisons aren't fair either.

[dcm1602]

McKnight-Bush isn't a fair comparison because Bush is lightyears better than McKnight and Leon Washington combined times a thousand. Jet fans will never admit to it.

The LW-McKnight comparisons aren't fair either.

Maybe Bushes potential is lightyears better.

But for a guy whose best season consisted of 565 rushing yards and 740 receiving he doesnt come even REMOTELY close to living up to his hype/draft position.

And that was in 2006, since then Bush has gotten worse (statistically) EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

1000 total yards in 07, 850 in 08, 720 in 09.

And his ONLY good year doing punt returns was 08.

Not to mention Bushes rushing avg is FAR below Leon, and even bushes recieving avg is below that of Leon.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Im not saying that I miss Leon or dont support trading him but I see absolutely zero evidence that says to me Bush is this amazing player completely out of their class.

And since McKnight hasnt played a single nfl game yet in his life im not ready to say that he doesnt have the ability to be the same player as those two

[The Jutty]

Fuck cutting him. We should sacrifice him in Revis' name as a peace offering.

[bloke911]

Fuck cutting him. We should sacrifice him in Revis' name as a peace offering.

Maybe the gods would release the Revis!

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

[NDmick]

Maybe Bushes potential is lightyears better.

But for a guy whose best season consisted of 565 rushing yards and 740 receiving he doesnt come even REMOTELY close to living up to his hype/draft position.

And that was in 2006, since then Bush has gotten worse (statistically) EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

1000 total yards in 07, 850 in 08, 720 in 09.

And his ONLY good year doing punt returns was 08.

Not to mention Bushes rushing avg is FAR below Leon, and even bushes recieving avg is below that of Leon.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Im not saying that I miss Leon or dont support trading him but I see absolutely zero evidence that says to me Bush is this amazing player completely out of their class.

And since McKnight hasnt played a single nfl game yet in his life im not ready to say that he doesnt have the ability to be the same player as those two
The stats don't show it because he's not a true RB, even though he became one in the playoffs this year. And Bush's playoff numbers are pretty nice.

He is more dynamic and is used differently and is more of a gamebreaker. His injuries are the reason why he's never brokeout in our eyes, but he always has around 1000 all purpose yards when he's healthy enough. If he played all 16 games he'd have 1000 all purpose each year. I'm on an iPhone so I can't get the numbers in front of me right now, but I know Bush's receptions are always high because of how he is used.

He's a bigger threat on offense and ST than Joe or Leon each snap he plays, and no analyst would disagree with me.

[SuppaMan]

The stats don't show it because he's not a true RB, even though he became one in the playoffs this year. And Bush's playoff numbers are pretty nice.

He is more dynamic and is used differently and is more of a gamebreaker. His injuries are the reason why he's never brokeout in our eyes, but he always has around 1000 all purpose yards when he's healthy enough. If he played all 16 games he'd have 1000 all purpose each year. I'm on an iPhone so I can't get the numbers in front of me right now, but I know Bush's receptions are always high because of how he is used.

He's a bigger threat on offense and ST than Joe or Leon each snap he plays, and no analyst would disagree with me.

Injuries have nothing to do with Bush's lack of a notable body of work. He's overmatched. He no longer went from playing on a team that was head and shoulders above the lower tier defenses he played.

He's a useful role player RB and on special teams as a returner, but that's all he is and all he'll ever be. He's a slightly taller version of Leon Washington and those style of backs that was incredibly overhyped and to an extent still is overhyped. If he played on a team that was much more run oriented or on team that didn't have such a top passing attack he would look extremely overmatched at times because he would be facing many more defenders up front to stop the run.

Bush has made the notable improvement of manning up though and running hard, something he did not do at all when he came in the league and looked to just dance around everyone and bounce outside all the time.


So yes, all people in the league who are really commenting on the game and not just playing up in the media, would disagree with you.

[Mambo9]

This is the old production vs potential argument...

On paper McKnight has the highest potential out of the three guys... HOWEVER potential means nothing if you can't deliver it on the field.
Will McKnight ever be able to do it? Maybe ina year?

that's a tough question... if the answer by the CS is yes then we should keep him, if it's no we should get rid of him.

However I have no doubt we'll keep one between CW and DW as a backup since McKnight will be so unreliable this year...

[SuppaMan]

This is the old production vs potential argument...

On paper McKnight has the highest potential out of the three guys... HOWEVER potential means nothing if you can't deliver it on the field.
Will McKnight ever be able to do it? Maybe ina year?

that's a tough question... if the answer by the CS is yes then we should keep him, if it's no we should get rid of him.

However I have no doubt we'll keep one between CW and DW as a backup since McKnight will be so unreliable this year...

CW and DW both contribute on special teams anyways, which is why if one or both make the roster, is the main reason why they made the roster.

Their best hope in the short-term is as a 3rd string RB and ST because of the position they play. The influx of RB's every year from college is high and it's tough enough for guys to get and hold onto a top spot at that position even if they have the physical tools and put up numbers.

Woodhead sounds like a lock from Rex's comments, which I'll believe either means Washington has an outside chance at a roster spot or more than likely he hits the practice squad. I do think he's shown enough that they'd sign him there rather than just cut him outright.

[Mambo9]

CW and DW both contribute on special teams anyways, which is why if one or both make the roster, is the main reason why they made the roster.

Their best hope in the short-term is as a 3rd string RB and ST because of the position they play. The influx of RB's every year from college is high and it's tough enough for guys to get and hold onto a top spot at that position even if they have the physical tools and put up numbers.

Woodhead sounds like a lock from Rex's comments, which I'll believe either means Washington has an outside chance at a roster spot or more than likely he hits the practice squad. I do think he's shown enough that they'd sign him there rather than just cut him outright.

I think CW running style suits this team more but DW is a Rex personal favorite and can play some slot WR too... I wonder what Westhoff thinks about them from a ST standpoint...

[SuppaMan]

I think CW running style suits this team more but DW is a Rex personal favorite and can play some slot WR too... I wonder what Westhoff thinks about them from a ST standpoint...

I think that's the reason why Woodhead is making the roster. He's more versatile. I think though with what he's shown on offense and on ST that Washington at least makes the practice squad, unless they also put Jason Davis on there. With only room for so many players on the PS, I don't know if the Jets would have two backs on there.

[NDmick]

Injuries have nothing to do with Bush's lack of a notable body of work. He's overmatched. He no longer went from playing on a team that was head and shoulders above the lower tier defenses he played.

He's a useful role player RB and on special teams as a returner, but that's all he is and all he'll ever be. He's a slightly taller version of Leon Washington and those style of backs that was incredibly overhyped and to an extent still is overhyped. If he played on a team that was much more run oriented or on team that didn't have such a top passing attack he would look extremely overmatched at times because he would be facing many more defenders up front to stop the run.

Bush has made the notable improvement of manning up though and running hard, something he did not do at all when he came in the league and looked to just dance around everyone and bounce outside all the time.


So yes, all people in the league who are really commenting on the game and not just playing up in the media, would disagree with you.
Give any team the option to select either Bush or Leon and they are picking Reggie every time.

I don't get how people don't understand he's a dynamic offensive threat and I'm fully aware that he's not a true RB even though he learned late last season how to run in between the tackles.

[SuppaMan]

Give any team the option to select either Bush or Leon and they are picking Reggie every time.

I don't get how people don't understand he's a dynamic offensive threat and I'm fully aware that he's not a true RB even though he learned late last season how to run in between the tackles.

Terrible argument which shows you do not have much of one. Of course teams would pick the guy that hasn't had a compound fracture nor a rod in there leg.

And if you are talking about coming out of college in the draft then yes it's obvious. Bush had all the hype, better stats in college, and bigger build (though not by a ton).


If you are talking about looking backwards after the fact minus Leon's leg injury, I guarantee you there are quite a few if not a lot that would've picked Leon over Bush. At worst similar production and talent, a better leader, and less costly. The only way Bush wins out is in the hype/sales department (it's a cost/benefit analysis situation, would sales offset the higher cost for a similar player).

[milo]

This is the old production vs potential argument...

On paper McKnight has the highest potential out of the three guys... HOWEVER potential means nothing if you can't deliver it on the field.
Will McKnight ever be able to do it? Maybe ina year?

that's a tough question... if the answer by the CS is yes then we should keep him, if it's no we should get rid of him.

However I have no doubt we'll keep one between CW and DW as a backup since McKnight will be so unreliable this year...

I hated this guy from the minute we picked him (but was stoked 20 minutes later when we took Conner).

I didn't hate him because he had a history of underachieving, or because I thought he couldn't play. I hated him because if Leon hadn't been an issue at that moment there is no way we would've bothered with him.

Before anyone comes in with the "4th round pick bust doesn't matter" bullshit...Yes, it does. When you only have 4 draft picks they all matter. Granted out of 4 picks we have two lifetime Jets in Kyle and Conner (Vlad is still a huge question) So to whiff on one isn't horrible, but it still hurts.

Washington may just come down to a numbers game. I'd love to see him stay, but it may not happen. But if they cut Woodhead I'm gonna seriously have to start wondering if the "great starters, cheap backups" shit isn't going to eventually kill this team.

[NDmick]

Terrible argument which shows you do not have much of one. Of course teams would pick the guy that hasn't had a compound fracture nor a rod in there leg.

And if you are talking about coming out of college in the draft then yes it's obvious. Bush had all the hype, better stats in college, and bigger build (though not by a ton).


If you are talking about looking backwards after the fact minus Leon's leg injury, I guarantee you there are quite a few if not a lot that would've picked Leon over Bush. At worst similar production and talent, a better leader, and less costly. The only way Bush wins out is in the hype/sales department (it's a cost/benefit analysis situation, would sales offset the higher cost for a similar player).
I meant in 06. When they were both healthy. Remove the hype over Bush and go by talent alone.

Bush catches out of the backfield better, is faster, and has better vision. I understand he's not a true RB, but with the Saints he isn't used as one until recently.

This isn't an argument I'll ever win over other Jets fans, but I think Bush is better. I think he has more to offer to offenses and special teams.

[Mr Electric]

...can't believe this hasn't been said yet: He was inactive.

[Mr Electric]

Terrible argument which shows you do not have much of one. Of course teams would pick the guy that hasn't had a compound fracture nor a rod in there leg.

And if you are talking about coming out of college in the draft then yes it's obvious. Bush had all the hype, better stats in college, and bigger build (though not by a ton).


If you are talking about looking backwards after the fact minus Leon's leg injury, I guarantee you there are quite a few if not a lot that would've picked Leon over Bush. At worst similar production and talent, a better leader, and less costly. The only way Bush wins out is in the hype/sales department (it's a cost/benefit analysis situation, would sales offset the higher cost for a similar player).

Stop being retardedly biased, man.

Look at Reggie Bush's receiving stats and then tell me Washington is the better, more productive.

[Mr Electric]

I think he has more to offer to offenses and special teams.

I'm completely with you on this - it doesn't matter what you think in this situation, because there's really nothing to think about.

Reggie Bush is the better player.

[German Jets Fan]

It's just not right to get rid of good guys like Woodhead, Taylor or Washington to keep McKnight.

He was a complete failure all preaseason, while those other guys played their Asses off to make the Team.

[Mr Electric]

It's just not right to get rid of good guys like Woodhead, Taylor or Washington to keep McKnight.

He was a complete failure all preaseason, while those other guys played their Asses off to make the Team.

...it's the fucking pre-season, man.

[Jtuds]

Danny Woodhead has a burst. He was lucky to break that tackle last night because like Leon it doesn't take much to knock him down but when he has some space he can make guys miss and he accelerates fast.

Chauncey Washington runs hard but I don't know that he's got great vision.

I see Chauncey as a replacement for Greene and I see Woodhead as a legit 3rd down guy who should see the field a few times every week. He is good on specials too.

McKnight, in my opinion, should have to earn his stripes on special teams before the Jets give him a carry.

[Mambo9]

Stop being retardedly biased, man.

Look at Reggie Bush's receiving stats and then tell me Washington is the better, more productive.

Mr. E, your time of the month again :) ?

That said... Washington has a 7.9 avg on 123 receptions, Bush has 7.4 avg on 260. And look at who's throwing the ball to them...

Bush is the better PR, Washington is the better KR.

Washington (pre leg-injury) is a better inside runner than Bush imo.


Bush has more raw talent, speed, body, etc... but Washington makes up for it by playing 100% on every play.

In a perfect world (Bush and Washington both playing at 100% of their capabilites) Bush would beat Leon in everything... but that's not the case in real life 'cause Bush plays to 70-80% of his capabilities.


With McKnight I predict it will be the same thing all over... GREAT speed, chang-of-direction, ecc... but as long as he doesn't play to at least 80-90% of his abilities he's going nowhere. I'm not saying that'll never happen... just that it ain't happening right now.:shit:

[nyjetsrule]

It's just not right to get rid of good guys like Woodhead, Taylor or Washington to keep McKnight.

He was a complete failure all preaseason, while those other guys played their Asses off to make the Team.

life isnt fair.

you do realize that there are a handfull of inactive slots every single week which means members of the 53 do not play. It doesnt matter who you stick there every week, they aren't going to play.

So sure you could put Chauncey there, and hes on the roster, but not actually helping us anymore than Mcknight would be in the inactive position.

So I ask you this, if you are going to keep one of the two and have them inactive all season, which one are you keeping, the guy who has flashed his impressive potential, but hasn't grasped the speed of the game, or the guy with very limited potential who has run better this preseason

Chauncey has rushed for a grand total of 75 yards on carries, for an average of 3.75 ypc. Which sadly is not even a good ypc against scrubs who won't be making NFL teams. That counts his long runs this preseason. He also has a great ST tackle which forced a fumble. Chauncey has 2 fumbles

Mcknight has run for 104 yards, on 38 carries for an average of 2.75 yards. While horrendous, it doesnt account for the wiggle and slides we see that shows Joe's potential. He is still hesitating as a runner, and needs to grow into himself. Mcknight also has a 67 yard punt return. Mcknight has three fumbles

Chauncey has pretty much reached his maximum potential. Mcknight hasnt, so if both guys are going to be inactive all season, we might as well keep the guy with the much higher ceiling in hopes he can develop and reach his potential.

[Mr Electric]

Mr. E, your time of the month again?

That said... Washington has a 7.9 avg on 123 receptions, Bush has 7.4 avg on 260. But look at who's throwing the ball to them...

Go choke on some spaghetti.

...and of course his average is going to be a little higher with less catches.

[FreeMcneil]

NDmick,

I'm one of the Jets fans that agree with you on this, if I had my choice of Leon or Reggie, I would choose Reggie, if he were on this team with the offensive line we have his size would allow him to run between the tackles and his speed would allow him come out of the backfield.

[nyjunc]

Chauncey Washington looks much better BUT I am not ready to give up on McKnight yet although I hated the original draft McKnight trade Leon move.

[bojanglesman]

Who's Joe McNight?

[xxedge72x]

McKnight runs very high. His legs constantly look planted into the ground like tree stumps. He carries the ball away from his chest. He actually stops moving to evaluate the field before running.

This guy is not NFL ready. I agree with Rex's decision to keep him deactivated until he shows he's ready to play like belongs in the NFL.

[slimjasi]

Mcknight has not been impressive at all but it's way too early to talk about cutting him. He gets at least another training camp to prove himself.

[Harpua]

I remeber reading the same shit about a rookie running back last year that was injured and had fumble problems.

I guess it would have worked out best for us in the long run if we had Cut Greene and given Woodhead his carries as well.....

Why do so many Jet fans get a hard-on for marginal talents that look decent in the preseason?

[Miamipuck]

I remeber reading the same shit about a rookie running back last year that was injured and had fumble problems.

I guess it would have worked out best for us in the long run if we had Cut Greene and given Woodhead his carries as well.....

Why do so many Jet fans get a hard-on for small marginal white talents that look decent in the preseason?

Harpua, I would love to cue the small white guy joke but you have to be serious here. Ahh what the hell I fixed your post...lol

Edit: It works great with your avatar too, maybe you can have a million Woodhead march....

[xxedge72x]

I remeber reading the same shit about a rookie running back last year that was injured and had fumble problems.

I guess it would have worked out best for us in the long run if we had Cut Greene and given Woodhead his carries as well.....

Why do so many Jet fans get a hard-on for marginal talents that look decent in the preseason?

I respect your opinion but I think you're way off on the Greene/McKnight comparison. Greene had rookie problems. McKnight has rookie problems AND looks awful... not NFL caliber awful. Greene never looked nearly as bad as McKnight does.

[phubbadaman]

IMO, when a running back comes to the NFL, they either have "it" or they don't. You can't learn to hit the hole. McKnight has all the physical tools, but does not seem to have "it". Woodhead, dispite all his physical limitations, knows how to play RB.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

I honestly haven't seen anything from McKnight to understand why people have such high hopes for him. I don't watch college football though.

[xxedge72x]

IMO, when a running back comes to the NFL, they either have "it" or they don't. You can't learn to hit the hole. McKnight has all the physical tools, but does not seem to have "it". Woodhead, dispite all his physical limitations, knows how to play RB.

"It" in this case would be instincts. McKnight spends way too much time thinking and is way too mechanical in his motions to be successful. If he's ever going to fully take advantage of his talent he needs to develop quick reactions, fluid motions, and needs to learn to protect the damn ball.

[Harpua]

I respect your opinion but I think you're way off on the Greene/McKnight comparison. Greene had rookie problems. McKnight has rookie problems AND looks awful... not NFL caliber awful. Greene never looked nearly as bad as McKnight does.

So...your forgeting all the "inactive" jokes becasue he didn't play in the first 3 games, or the 3 fumbles before he hit 70 carries on the season? Greene looked a lot like McKnight, a talent who needs to get his head on right.

McKnight shows flashes of promise and then fucks up horribly. He's a rookie, it happens. Woodhead and Washington play hard, but are limited in thier playmaking ability. They looked decent tongiht against 2nd and 3rd stringers after having a few seasons to get up to this point. They are "just a guy" on any NFL roster. I'll take potential and talent on my 3rd back and give him some time to learn over a player who has proven he is mediocre at best over a few years.

[Miamipuck]

I honestly haven't seen anything from McKnight to understand why people have such high hopes for him. I don't watch college football though.

Fumbles and other nonsense aside, you really do not see that he is more talented than the other 2? Again, I am not defending him, far from it. Just saying.

[MBGreen]

I honestly haven't seen anything from McKnight to understand why people have such high hopes for him. I don't watch college football though.
this.


I'm not ready to cut bait on him yet though....I want to see if Rex can mold him into a football player during the season...and see what he brings to the table the following season.

[nyjunc]

I remeber reading the same shit about a rookie running back last year that was injured and had fumble problems.

I guess it would have worked out best for us in the long run if we had Cut Greene and given Woodhead his carries as well.....

Why do so many Jet fans get a hard-on for marginal talents that look decent in the preseason?

I'm not ready top give up on McKnight but you cannot compare Greene to McKnight. Green only played 2 preseason games but averaged 4.5 YPC, McKnight in addition to his awful ball security has averaged 2.7 YPC. When we saw Greene we saw a aplayer, we don't see that yet w/ McKnight. he hasn't shown anything on offense.


I would keep Washington over Woodhead by the way and if McKnight wasn't a 4th rd pick in a draft where we only had 4 picks I'd keep Woodhead and washington and let McKnight go.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

Fumbles and other nonsense aside, you really do not see that he is more talented than the other 2? Again, I am not defending him, far from it. Just saying.

No, not at all. I see a guy that would be good playing on my flag football team, that's about it. I haven't seen too much of him though.

[ajetsfan4ever]

he looks good on punt returns!

[xxedge72x]

So...your forgeting all the "inactive" jokes becasue he didn't play in the first 3 games, or the 3 fumbles before he hit 70 carries on the season? Greene looked a lot like McKnight, a talent who needs to get his head on right.

McKnight shows flashes of promise and then fucks up horribly. He's a rookie, it happens. Woodhead and Washington play hard, but are limited in thier playmaking ability. They looked decent tongiht against 2nd and 3rd stringers after having a few seasons to get up to this point. They are "just a guy" on any NFL roster. I'll take potential and talent on my 3rd back and give him some time to learn over a player who has proven he is mediocre at best over a few years.

You're focused too much on the fumbles. The inactive part... whatever, that was retarded from the onset.

If you really want to see where the difference is just look at what they do when they actually get the ball. The difference is night and day.

Greene is patient getting to the hole, blasts through the hole, rams people, keeps his legs moving, and has a second burst if he makes it through the second level while managing to protect the football. He struggled with the fumbles early but fixed that problem quickly.

McKnight flies right up to the line not allowing blocks to develop, he misreads holes and changes directions randomly, he hesitates when opportunities are presented to himself, he plants his feet and slows himself down making himself a target for opposing defenders, he carries the ball away from his chest making him a fumble waiting to happen every time, when he does manage to get through he runs out of gas, and he doesn't take full advantage of his shiftiness which is really his only advantage over Greene.

I can see the Jets fixing the fumble problem but its going to take a hell of a lot more to get him to run right and take advantage of the tools he has. I don't see any comparison between the two.

[perfectpackage99]

He's immature, give him a chance.

GO back and think what you were doing at that age.

Some people mature later then others,

[Harpua]

You're focused too much on the fumbles. The inactive part... whatever, that was retarded from the onset.


Your focused too much on the two players. No where did I say "McKnihgt is the next Greene" so quit being a silly. I drew a compairison to how Fans react in the preseason. Thats it. The only retarded thing was your over reaction.

My entire pointy is about Jet fans over looking the talent of McKnight, things like using preseason stats as an evaluation for chist sake, instead of realying on thier eyes or history of the player.

McKnight made a beatiful run right before the fumble for almost 20 yards, called back because another preseason fan hard on player in Clowney just had to hold a guy McKnihgt was already past, but lets completely over look things like that, right? Lets over look the pass catching out of the back feild, the ability to survive between the tackles. He has the talent to be a more complete back than either Woodhead or Washington. Both of them are decent at best in a limited role. McKnihgt has the potential to be much more than that. If you can't see it by watching thats too bad.

[TommyGreen]

We can afford to be patient with him at least for this season. Give the guy time, and some garbage time carries behind the starting O-Line, and let's see how he does.

[xxedge72x]

Your focused too much on the two players. No where did I say "McKnihgt is the next Greene" so quit being a silly. I drew a compairison to how Fans react in the preseason. Thats it. The only retarded thing was your over reaction.

My entire pointy is about Jet fans over looking the talent of McKnight, things like using preseason stats as an evaluation for chist sake, instead of realying on thier eyes or history of the player.

McKnight made a beatiful run right before the fumble for almost 20 yards, called back because another preseason fan hard on player in Clowney just had to hold a guy McKnihgt was already past, but lets completely over look things like that, right? Lets over look the pass catching out of the back feild, the ability to survive between the tackles. He has the talent to be a more complete back than either Woodhead or Washington. Both of them are decent at best in a limited role. McKnihgt has the potential to be much more than that. If you can't see it by watching thats too bad.

I draw my conclusions by watching with my own eyes. I agree he's more talented than Woodhead and Washington but talent and production are not the same thing.

Personally, I hate the way McKnight runs, and I wouldn't trust him with the football until he changes it. As it is, Rex agrees.

There's no such thing as overlooking talent in the NFL. Players don't make it to the NFL without talent. Even the scrapper types who make it as UDFAs have some talent. No one dons an NFL jersey without talent. Some have it more than others, but it doesn't mean they will be successful.

My McKnight forecast: out of the league in 4 years unless he seriously changes his running style and approach to the game.

[Mambo9]

The one hope for McKnight is... he'll be working with a Hall of famer in LT, a leader in T-Rich and a good tough RB coach in Lynn... This trio hopefully will get something out of him.

Next TC is when I'll start judjing him... same as Ducasse (but for different reasons)...

[Miamipuck]

I draw my conclusions by watching with my own eyes. I agree he's more talented than Woodhead and Washington but talent and production are not the same thing.

Personally, I hate the way McKnight runs, and I wouldn't trust him with the football until he changes it. As it is, Rex agrees.

There's no such thing as overlooking talent in the NFL. Players don't make it to the NFL without talent. Even the scrapper types who make it as UDFAs have some talent. No one dons an NFL jersey without talent. Some have it more than others, but it doesn't mean they will be successful.

My McKnight forecast: out of the league in 4 years unless he seriously changes his running style and approach to the game.

This is not to pounce on you or anything but you do realize the avg players career is 3 and change...... So he is going to be above average on length in the league? RB's almost never last long and are highly replaceable....

Edit: :Like Harpua I really think to my eye and watching his running, if they can get the kids head on straight, he can be a pretty good back.....Granted that is a ton of if's there....

[TommyGreen]

The one hope for McKnight is... he'll be working with a Hall of famer in LT, a leader in T-Rich and a good tough RB coach in Lynn... This trio hopefully will get something out of him.

Next TC is when I'll start judjing him... same as Ducasse (but for different reasons)...

Yeah, I don't get the rush to cut the guy. We drafted him in the 4th round, so we should at least give him another TC. If guys can be patient with Gholston we can be patient with McKnight.

[NYJetsMan7]

Haha if we could keep gholston for this long ..i think holding on to Mcknight isnt a problem.

[MBGreen]

Yeah, I don't get the rush to cut the guy. We drafted him in the 4th round, so we should at least give him another TC. If guys can be patient with Gholston we can be patient with McKnight.
I think everybody was expecting a Leon clone right out of the gate with McKnight....me being included (admittingly).

But sometimes I forget rookies need time to develop....and I'm willing to give McKnight the benefit of the doubt....and see how he progresses.

[xxedge72x]

This is not to pounce on you or anything but you do realize the avg players career is 3 and change...... So he is going to be above average on length in the league? RB's almost never last long and are highly replaceable....

Edit: :Like Harpua I really think to my eye and watching his running, if they can get the kids head on straight, he can be a pretty good back.....Granted that is a ton of if's there....

His draft status and talent will keep him around much longer than he deserves if he never improves. It wouldn't surprise me if he's around for 8-9 years with even moderate improvement.

He definitely has the weapons to be very good but his problems go beyond just putting the ball on the turf or rookie mental block... his physical instincts look as poor as his mental ones. With room he can do great things but in tight quarters he looks like a giant bullseye.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

Re: the Greene comparison, I remember watching Greene and saying "man this kid is going to be a difference maker". I was real worried about him staying healthy but I don't think there was ever a concern about what he would bring to the field if healthy. I can't say the same about McKnight right now. Hopefully he gets his shit together if he's so talented.

[MadBacker Prime]

I think a lot of it just boils down to his actual strength or lack their of.

He basically has no muscle tone, just like when LW was drafted. Now LW is built like a brick shit house. Once he gets bigger, faster, stronger, he'll be able to accomplish much more.

[xxedge72x]

I think a lot of it just boils down to his actual strength or lack their of.

He basically has no muscle tone, just like when LW was drafted. Now LW is built like a brick shit house. Once he gets bigger, faster, stronger, he'll be able to accomplish much more.

I disagree. Go back and watch the preseason games again and watch McKnight's legs when he gets the ball. Watch his eyes and how he moves when he's trying to go somewhere.

Leon never moved like that. Leon always had instincts and quick wit. McKnight is showing none of that. That is where McKnight needs the most improvement, along with protecting the football.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

Can anyone remember an NFL RB that took a year or two to develop before being really productive? I'm not trying to cimini, I'm just trying to think of one.

[PJ4Ever]

It would be a horrendous move to cut Chauncey or Woodhead for this clown.

[xxedge72x]

Can anyone remember an NFL RB that took a year or two to develop before being really productive? I'm not trying to cimini, I'm just trying to think of one.

The Derrick Wards of the world maybe... but even that didn't last too long.

Maybe the best example would be Thomas Jones. He was a mega underachiever as a young player in Tampa.

They exist but your general point is accurate I think... they are rare.

[Miamipuck]

I think a lot of it just boils down to his actual strength or lack their of.

He basically has no muscle tone, just like when LW was drafted. Now LW is built like a brick shit house. Once he gets bigger, faster, stronger, he'll be able to accomplish much more.

No muscle tone?.... he looked ok on Hard Knocks, the scene where he was bent over....kidding about the bent over part but he looked normal to me anyhow.

I don't know why a 3rd or 4th RB warrants this much arguing. He is what he is a developmental project. Whether he does or not....meh


Btw Emmitt Smith was a dough boy and it worked out fine for him.

[Miamipuck]

Can anyone remember an NFL RB that took a year or two to develop before being really productive? I'm not trying to cimini, I'm just trying to think of one.

It took Ronnie Brown a year, I think..... Cedric Benson.........

[nyjunc]

It took Ronnie Brown a year, I think..... Cedric Benson.........

Brown and benson both averaged over 4 YPC as rookies. They showed flashes, so far McKnight has shown us absolutely nothing.

[Jetcentric28]

Can anyone remember an NFL RB that took a year or two to develop before being really productive? I'm not trying to cimini, I'm just trying to think of one.

Cedric Benson

[ToonWalker]

Can anyone remember an NFL RB that took a year or two to develop before being really productive? I'm not trying to cimini, I'm just trying to think of one.

Off the top of my head, maybe Thomas Jones, Brian Westbrook, Priest Holmes.

[Jetcentric28]

Ricky Williams also had a subpar rookie season in New Orleans, only 3.5 yards per carry.

[TommyGreen]

Brown and benson both averaged over 4 YPC as rookies. They showed flashes, so far McKnight has shown us absolutely nothing.

We shouldn't compare McKnight to 1st round picks and top-of-their-class running backs.

[AlioTheFool]

I wasn't a fan of the pick. I don't particularly like McKnight. His vomitting antics drove me bezerk. I honestly don't have a lot of confidence he'll pan out.

I also thought Danny Woodhead didn't belong anywhere near an NFL roster. I no longer feel that way. Guys mature. It's silly to write them off after they've played all of 4 meaningless games.

Rex isn't cutting him. He's not going to play him until he shows he wants to play. The kid has his motivation. Now he's got to take the bull by the horns.

[ConcordeChops]

I wasn't a fan of the pick but the guy is a work in progress. Lock this thread until the 2012 season.

[Miamipuck]

Brown and benson both averaged over 4 YPC as rookies. They showed flashes, so far McKnight has shown us absolutely nothing.

I am not comparing the 2 by any stretch. WSW asked to name a couple of backs that struggled early and became good. These were glaring 1st round guys.

Trust me both heard the B-word associated with their names in year one, Brown especially, man were people upset down here. C. Williams started a house on fire all the Dolphin pundits/fans were crying they took the wrong Auburn back.

[........]

Brown and benson both averaged over 4 YPC as rookies. They showed flashes, so far McKnight has shown us absolutely nothing.

In the preseason? Brown was being called a bust before he ever hit the field in the regular season because of a low preseason average and fumbling problems. In his first preseason game (didn't even play in Game 1 because he wasn't ready), he had 6 carries for 20 yards and lost a fumble

[........]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the benefit is of keeping both Washington and Woodhead. What role do people actually expect this season from the two of them?

Those who feel McKnight should be cut, if he does get it together, what are we going to get out of the other two backs this year that's bigger than what we could get out of McKnight in the future?

[WhiteShoeWillis]

I hope nobody thinks I'm calling McKnight a bust. People are saying he's basically a red shirt this season. That's fine, I get it. I was just trying to remember a similar RB situation as they're generally the easiest plug and play position.

[fenwyr]

If McKnight makes this roster but the two people at his same position that CLEARLY outplayed him don't, I lose a little faith in Rex (VERY little, but some). I thought he was a no bullshit kinda guy who wouldn't keep a waste of a player on his roster just because he was a 4th round pick. He's been a nobody since high school. He was supposed to be the next Bush at USC, he failed. He was supposed to be the next Leon in NY, he will without a doubt fail if he hasn't already.

You don't think it was a HUGE red flag when Pete Carroll, his former coach, had a chance to draft him but took Leon Washington instead? It was a head-scratcher then and it's a blunder now.

Are you not wearing your helmet today? A nobody since high school? Do you really think you get recruited by USC if you are a nobody?

People were stupid to call him the next Reggie Bush. That wasn't his fault. There may never be another Reggie Bush at the college level. His stats for 2009 were very good:

#4 RB - 2009 Stats: ATT 164, YDS 1,014, TD 8. He also had 146 yards receiving.

By comparison here's Leon's stats for 2005:

430 rushing, 279 receiving, 4 TD's. Though, he had a much better rushing year as a junior with 951 yards and 7 TD's.

Both were 4th round picks, appropriately. Where do people come up with this shit?

[........]

Are you not wearing your helmet today? A nobody since high school? Do you really think you get recruited by USC if you are a nobody?

People were stupid to call him the next Reggie Bush. That wasn't his fault. There may never be another Reggie Bush at the college level. His stats for 2009 were very good:

#4 RB - 2009 Stats: ATT 164, YDS 1,014, TD 8. He also had 146 yards receiving.

By comparison here's Leon's stats for 2005:

430 rushing, 279 receiving, 4 TD's. Though, he had a much better rushing year as a junior with 951 yards and 7 TD's.

Both were 4th round picks, appropriately. Where do people come up with this shit?

They reach up their asses and pull it out.

[Hemi]

Maybe they find a way to put him on the PUP list, but I don't see them cutting him.

He is a rookie, and playing like it. He needs to do better on first contact. He shows some shiftiness and some speed. But I agree with those that say he is a bit tentative and needs some seasoning.

And yes, learn to hold on to the ball. Alot of backs get fumbilitis, or does everyone forget Shonn Greene's fumble woes last year.

[nyjunc]

I am not comparing the 2 by any stretch. WSW asked to name a couple of backs that struggled early and became good. These were glaring 1st round guys.

Trust me both heard the B-word associated with their names in year one, especially Brown, man were people upset down here. Especially since C. Williams started a house on fire.

There are a million examples of guys who struggled early then got it together but we are comparing guys expected to be feature backs w/ a guy who is expected to be a 3rd down complimentary back.

In the preseason? Brown was being called a bust before he ever hit the field in the regular season because of a low preseason average and fumbling problems. In his first preseason game (didn't even play in Game 1 because he wasn't ready), he had 6 carries for 20 yards and lost a fumble

Those guys were expected to be big time backs, McKnight is expected to be a 3rd down back and they were high 1st rd picks(I think Benson held out too). McKnight has shown us nothing.

Brown only playe din 2 of 5 preseason games in 2005(I'm not sure if he was hurt or held out) but in those 2 games he ran 11 times for 45 yds(4.1 YPC)

Benson didn't play in preseason so how were either of these 2 being called busts?

[Andy_M]

Rex went off on him in the postgame press conference. Says he'll make the team but won't suit up until they trust him


I love Rex, but he's gotta be fucking kidding.....based on What? Washington and Woodhead are both better football players than this kid. He has tons of potential........just like Gholston does....

...problem is no one will ever see it........Free the spot for a REAL Jet.

McKnight = the "new" Ghost.....

[........]

There are a million examples of guys who struggled early then got it together but we are comparing guys expected to be feature backs w/ a guy who is expected to be a 3rd down complimentary back.



Those guys were expected to be big time backs, McKnight is expected to be a 3rd down back and they were high 1st rd picks(I think Benson held out too). McKnight has shown us nothing.

Brown only playe din 2 of 5 preseason games in 2005(I'm not sure if he was hurt or held out) but in those 2 games he ran 11 times for 45 yds(4.1 YPC)

Benson didn't play in preseason so how were either of these 2 being called busts?

I don't know. Ask the media who were calling Brown a likely bust when the season started based on his preseason performance.

[Miamipuck]

There are a million examples of guys who struggled early then got it together but we are comparing guys expected to be feature backs w/ a guy who is expected to be a 3rd down complimentary back.


There are a million guys expected to be feature backs that were first round picks. Wonderful but WSW asked a question and I answered it. Where did we compare them to MCK? I know I didn't, he asked a question, here to refresh your memory in case you forgot:

Can anyone remember an NFL RB that took a year or two to develop before being really productive? I'm not trying to cimini, I'm just trying to think of one.

RB was typically a position they were expected to come in and produce right away. Now that the NFL is going to RB rotations you are starting to see teams show more flexibility with developing them.

[ThunderbirdJet]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the benefit is of keeping both Washington and Woodhead. What role do people actually expect this season from the two of them?

Those who feel McKnight should be cut, if he does get it together, what are we going to get out of the other two backs this year that's bigger than what we could get out of McKnight in the future?

McKnight is making the team, period. No point in even debating him anymore. If he were a sixth round pick, he might have gotten the ax, but they traded up for him in the 4th. He's not going anywhere, other than to the inactive roster.

Why keep both Washington and Woodhead? I still think Woodhead should be given a shot at being a return man. He can play slot, WR, RB. He might be OK as a gunner if both Clowney and Taylor get cut.

Now, Washington. I don't know why so many are down on him. An active RB corp of LT, Greene and Woodhead is pretty thin. Washinton can run between the tackles, and has been a solid tackler and blocker on ST's. I doubt he clears waivers to be sent to the PS. Just as a ST'er he has value in the NFL. From what I have seen, he can pick up the blitz too. I think he's a bit more than JAP. He plays like a Jet. Doesn't have uber-talent at all, but he's solid.

[Miamipuck]

I don't know. Ask the media who were calling Brown a likely bust when the season started based on his preseason performance.

Brown was being called a bust down here for sure. I know I heard it, quite a bit. If he is going to argue that Benson and bust were not used in the same sentence, then he isn't worth the time.

Here 2 seconds it took to find this from the Sun-Sentinal:


Brown a bust?
by: keven lerner October 12th, 2006 | 10:50 AM

But let’s be honest, Ronnie Brown hasn’t shown he’s worthy of being a No. 2 overall draft pick either.

Here’s why:

# He lacks the vision that all top-notch backs possess (Yes, he’s slow to react and seemingly disinterested in reading defensive front alignments and angles taken by linebackers).

# He lacks the explosiveness of many elite runners (Maybe Nick Saban can enlist him in Daunte Culpepper’s explosive-movement program).

# He’s not a game-breaking back (His longest run from scrimmage this season is 27 yards, and the threat of him breaking off a big gain is non-existent).

# He’s too hesitant at the point of attack with no instinctive burst (A big reason he hasn’t had a 100-yard rushing game in nearly a year).

# He’s rushed for a mere 278 yards on 85 carries, a 3.3 average. (Ok, he’s running behind a suspect line, but lacks the ability to create holes that do not exist).

I’m not suggesting for a second that he doesn’t run hard, because he runs about as hard as any back in the NFL. And he did have a respectable rookie season. But his aforementioned running traits make him nothing more than a good back, and certainly not worth a No. 2 pick.

I also think Brown would be more effective with offensive schemes that better utilize his strengths. I’d like to see more screen plays and dump passes thrown to him to give him an opportunity to make plays in the open field.

I think it’s fair to say that Ricky Williams would have far greater success given the same obstacles that Brown faces.

Anyway, Brown should do well Sunday against a Jets defense that ranks No. 28 in the NFL against the run.

Here’s some readers’ opinions posted on this blog in the comment section:

# Ronnie Brown isn’t a bust…yet. Nor is he showing us anything. Yes the line is different but lets not forget that we have been complaining about it for a couple of years now. Ricky could just about run through anything, and Ronnie benefitted from Williams taken the brunt of the load. Good backs make mediocre lines better. Ronnie is not hitting holes quick enough, but he is still learning the game. After all he has always been a part time back. I have been impressed with his ability to break some initial tackles, though. I am just tired of the misevaluations by the coaching staff and scouts on drafft picks and free agents. — Darryn

# Ronnie is not a bust but he isn’t a special back either. Ronnie will never be a special RB. Ronnie Brown has TERRIBLE vision, and not much explosion through the initial hole, but he does run hard. I think he would be a great 3rd down back or goaline back, but he will no way be the guy that we can have carry the team like RIcky could. — Hector

# In no way is Ronnie Brown a bust. Once he gets a decent offensive line to run behind then we’ll see. If he isn’t getting 100 yard games on a weekly basis at that point maybe then we can start calling him the “B” word. — dolfanman13

[evojoe67]

Not only does McKnight not show anything on the field that indicates he's a player but in watching "Hard Knocks" he doesn't seem like he's coachable either.
If Washington doesn't make this team and this jerkoff does somethings wrong.

[nyjunc]

I don't know. Ask the media who were calling Brown a likely bust when the season started based on his preseason performance.

Show examples. No sane individual is calling a top 5 pick a bust based on limited action in 2 preseason games so I'd love to see those articles.

There are a million guys expected to be feature backs that were first round picks. Wonderful but WSW asked a question and I answered it. Where did we compare them to MCK? I know I didn't, he asked a question, here to refresh your memory in case you forgot:



RB was typically a position they were expected to come in and produce right away. Now that the NFL is going to RB rotations you are starting to see teams show more flexibility with developing them.

I wasn't attacking you, just answering a question and helping you out.

[Miamipuck]

I don't know. Ask the media who were calling Brown a likely bust when the season started based on his preseason performance.

Brown was being called a bust down here for sure. I know I heard it, quite a bit. If he is going to argue that Benson and bust were not used in the same sentence, then he isn't worth the time.


From the Sun Sentinal Blog:


Brown a bust?
by: keven lerner October 12th, 2006 | 10:50 AM


OK, I won’t go as far as saying that.

But let’s be honest, Ronnie Brown hasn’t shown he’s worthy of being a No. 2 overall draft pick either.

Here’s why:

# He lacks the vision that all top-notch backs possess (Yes, he’s slow to react and seemingly disinterested in reading defensive front alignments and angles taken by linebackers).

# He lacks the explosiveness of many elite runners (Maybe Nick Saban can enlist him in Daunte Culpepper’s explosive-movement program).

# He’s not a game-breaking back (His longest run from scrimmage this season is 27 yards, and the threat of him breaking off a big gain is non-existent).

# He’s too hesitant at the point of attack with no instinctive burst (A big reason he hasn’t had a 100-yard rushing game in nearly a year).

# He’s rushed for a mere 278 yards on 85 carries, a 3.3 average. (Ok, he’s running behind a suspect line, but lacks the ability to create holes that do not exist).

I’m not suggesting for a second that he doesn’t run hard, because he runs about as hard as any back in the NFL. And he did have a respectable rookie season. But his aforementioned running traits make him nothing more than a good back, and certainly not worth a No. 2 pick.

I also think Brown would be more effective with offensive schemes that better utilize his strengths. I’d like to see more screen plays and dump passes thrown to him to give him an opportunity to make plays in the open field.

I think it’s fair to say that Ricky Williams would have far greater success given the same obstacles that Brown faces.

Anyway, Brown should do well Sunday against a Jets defense that ranks No. 28 in the NFL against the run.

Here’s some readers’ opinions posted on this blog in the comment section:

# Ronnie Brown isn’t a bust…yet. Nor is he showing us anything. Yes the line is different but lets not forget that we have been complaining about it for a couple of years now. Ricky could just about run through anything, and Ronnie benefitted from Williams taken the brunt of the load. Good backs make mediocre lines better. Ronnie is not hitting holes quick enough, but he is still learning the game. After all he has always been a part time back. I have been impressed with his ability to break some initial tackles, though. I am just tired of the misevaluations by the coaching staff and scouts on drafft picks and free agents. — Darryn

# Ronnie is not a bust but he isn’t a special back either. Ronnie will never be a special RB. Ronnie Brown has TERRIBLE vision, and not much explosion through the initial hole, but he does run hard. I think he would be a great 3rd down back or goaline back, but he will no way be the guy that we can have carry the team like RIcky could. — Hector

# In no way is Ronnie Brown a bust. Once he gets a decent offensive line to run behind then we’ll see. If he isn’t getting 100 yard games on a weekly basis at that point maybe then we can start calling him the “B” word. — dolfanman13

[WhiteShoeWillis]

I don't know if keeping Woodhead & Washington is a good idea, but I think one of them should be part of the team as the 3rd RB. If we run nearly as much as last season it would be nice to have a 3rd guy to help eat up the carries. Personally I'd prefer Washington over Woodhead, but they both have upsides. Woodheads versatility may be the deciding factor.

[NYJ_JD]

I can't believe we are arguing over our 4th round pick and upset he isn't coming in and making a huge impact. He's a rookie, yes, he is going to be tentative. But again, you do not know the potential the kid has.

With woodhead you know the floor is probably higher, but have no idea where his ceiling is. I'm glad the Rex is putting him on the team. He needs that experience. Hopefully in games that we put away, we get Joe a few carries and get him adept to the NFL.

We have been spoiled as of late with our draft picks and starting early, but you can't group not starting as a rookie with being a bust.. if Revis didn't hold out, none of our rookies would be starting ( I know wilson would be our main nickel back, but nickel isn't our base defense)

But thats just my opinion..

[........]

McKnight is making the team, period. No point in even debating him anymore. If he were a sixth round pick, he might have gotten the ax, but they traded up for him in the 4th. He's not going anywhere, other than to the inactive roster.

Why keep both Washington and Woodhead? I still think Woodhead should be given a shot at being a return man. He can play slot, WR, RB. He might be OK as a gunner if both Clowney and Taylor get cut.

Now, Washington. I don't know why so many are down on him. An active RB corp of LT, Greene and Woodhead is pretty thin. Washinton can run between the tackles, and has been a solid tackler and blocker on ST's. I doubt he clears waivers to be sent to the PS. Just as a ST'er he has value in the NFL. From what I have seen, he can pick up the blitz too. I think he's a bit more than JAP. He plays like a Jet. Doesn't have uber-talent at all, but he's solid.

That wasn't the question, though. I'm asking what role you see them actually having in the offense. In other words, what production do you think either back will have this season? Woodhead can be a limited time playmaker for 4 weeks while we wait for Holmes to return, but when would Washington even see the field? I can't see the wisdom in keeping him for the 10 carries he might squeeze out this season.

And I haven't seen anything to tell me he won't clear waivers. I suppose it's possible, but teams looking for an emergency back are really going to be looking for one thing: ball control. He's coughed it up twice (whether ruled a fumble or not on the 2nd one), and that will certainly play into teams' decisions.

[........]

Show examples. No sane individual is calling a top 5 pick a bust based on limited action in 2 preseason games so I'd love to see those articles.



I wasn't attacking you, just answering a question and helping you out.

Seriously? You want me to go back and find examples from 2005 between the preseason and season? I remember him being called a potential bust on ESPN and the CBS pregame shows before the first game of the season.

I'll check, though.

Here:

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

A few weeks ago, the who-gets-what issue might have been clearer. Brown had yet to hit his stride, and there were even some absurd questions in the media about whether he appeared to be a bust. But Brown has made major strides since, averaging 5.7 yards per carry in his last two games while gaining an impressive 263 yards from scrimmage (229 rushing, 34 receiving). He has looked like the powerful back the Dolphins were expecting when they selected him with the No. 2 overall pick last April.

This was discussing the beginning of the season/end of the preseason. Absurd questions about whether he appeared to be a bust. Just like we're seeing now. The difference? McKnight's a fucking fourth rounder.

[flajetfanson]

He stays for at least one season they staff will not admit a mistake on this. But they won't and should not put him in game situations til he learns how to hold on to the freaking ball.
Between washinton and woodhead I take woodhead. washinton runs harder but again I hate fumbles and woodhead can line up at the slot and just seems shifter

[Miamipuck]

Show examples. No sane individual is calling a top 5 pick a bust based on limited action in 2 preseason games so I'd love to see those articles.



I wasn't attacking you, just answering a question and helping you out.


They were calling him a bust. It is a fact. I heard it a thousand times over. I am not saying Dolphin fans are sane, I haven't met many that are. They were insanely jealous over Cadialc Williams they thought Saban took the wrong Auburn guy and man they were pissed.

BTW It sounded like you were trying to argue with me over something I didn't say and I didn't quite understand why. I was just trying to help you out too.

[ThunderbirdJet]

That wasn't the question, though. I'm asking what role you see them actually having in the offense. In other words, what production do you think either back will have this season? Woodhead can be a limited time playmaker for 4 weeks while we wait for Holmes to return, but when would Washington even see the field? I can't see the wisdom in keeping him for the 10 carries he might squeeze out this season.

And I haven't seen anything to tell me he won't clear waivers. I suppose it's possible, but teams looking for an emergency back are really going to be looking for one thing: ball control. He's coughed it up twice (whether ruled a fumble or not on the 2nd one), and that will certainly play into teams' decisions.

I like what I've seen of Washington on special teams. It isn't so much a question of how many carries he gets, as long as Greene and LT stay healthy. If one of them gets dinged, I don't want to see Woodhead getting 10 carries, I think Washington is better depth.

[nyjunc]

Seriously? You want me to go back and find examples from 2005 between the preseason and season? I remember him being called a potential bust on ESPN and the CBS pregame shows before the first game of the season.

I'll check, though.

Here:

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.



This was discussing the beginning of the season/end of the preseason. Absurd questions about whether he appeared to be a bust. Just like we're seeing now. The difference? McKnight's a fucking fourth rounder.


Yes, I don't care what some yahoo in the media says or some irrational fans. No sane people thought Ronnie Brown was a bust w/ limited action in 2 preseason games.

They were calling him a bust. It is a fact. I heard it a thousand times over. I am not saying Dolphin fans are sane, I haven't met many that are. They were insanely jealous over Cadialc Williams they thought Saban took the wrong Auburn guy and man they were pissed.

BTW It sounded like you were trying to argue with me over something I didn't say and I didn't quite understand why. I was just trying to help you out too.

Argue? me? come on:up:

[........]

Yes, I don't care what some yahoo in the media says or some irrational fans. No sane people thought Ronnie Brown was a bust w/ limited action in 2 preseason games.



Argue? me? come on:up:

I never said the people were sane. My whole point was that it was absurd to call him a bust just like people are calling McKnight a bust right now.

Again, though, the questions were more widespread than just 'some yahoo in the media'. His fumbling problems and his injury had a lot of people questioning what was going to happen on that first day of the season, particularly the talking heads on the major network preshows.

As it turns out, he came out and...didn't allay their fears.

[Harpua]

This is not to pounce on you or anything but you do realize the avg players career is 3 and change...... So he is going to be above average on length in the league? RB's almost never last long and are highly replaceable....

Edit: :Like Harpua I really think to my eye and watching his running, if they can get the kids head on straight, he can be a pretty good back.....Granted that is a ton of if's there....

Thats my take, the talent is there. He is shifty enough to make guys miss, is sturdy enough to run between the tackles, has good receiving skills, and the speed to take it the distance or turn a 5 yard gain into a 20 yard one.

His biggest problem is ball security, as it is with almost every young back in the league. Yes, he could run harder, but thats not exactly his style. He's never going to be greene, but has the talent to be a very good third down back in our offense.

[Miamipuck]

Yes, I don't care what some yahoo in the media says or some irrational fans. No sane people thought Ronnie Brown was a bust w/ limited action in 2 preseason games.



Argue? me? come on:up:

HAHAHAHAH Silly me, .....lol

BTW It was radio personalities too. You have to understand Saban was a Mangini type. So he would cause people to act idiotic as they hope he would be wrong. He was not liked very much. Even though they were fans of the Fins they wanted him to fail. You see that here all the time as well, very weird mentality.

[Harpua]

Argue? me? come on:up:

Jet fans over react in the pre season.

Champ is one negative old SOB.

Junc will argue almost anything to death.

These are facts of any TGG.com football season. Its a good feeling when they roll around every fall. :smile:

[nyjunc]

I never said the people were sane. My whole point was that it was absurd to call him a bust just like people are calling McKnight a bust right now.

Again, though, the questions were more widespread than just 'some yahoo in the media'. His fumbling problems and his injury had a lot of people questioning what was going to happen on that first day of the season, particularly the talking heads on the major network preshows.

As it turns out, he came out and...didn't allay their fears.

Brown has been somewhat of a bust mainly b/c he cannot stay healthy. When healthy he's a top back but he's never healthy and has had just one(barely) 1,000 yd season in his career.

It's way to early to label McKnight a bust but he hasn't shown us a thing. He was being counted on to help this team this year and it doesn't appear that will happen.


It's very disappointing to see b/c we gave away a guy like leon for nothing and drfated Mcknight thinking he was a younger, cheaper version and it hasn't happened yet but there's alot of football to be played so hopefully he eventually gets it.

[AlioTheFool]

FTR, I think both Washington and Woodhead will make the team. I also don't think either will play on offense. They're not going to be kept for anything but their special teams play and as garbage time running backs.

That's fine with me because they're both good ST guys.

As for McKnight, he'll either be active and getting 2-5 snaps a game by week 6, or he'll be unemployed. It's not a quesiton of talent, it's a question of desire, and that's the message Rex sent him last night. He'll watch the Jets play Baltimore. The big question is, will he watch them play the Pats as well?

[ManlyGenius]

I don't want to broach this, but is it disconcerting to anyone else that Ryan appears to want to cut McKnight for being a lazy sloppy player but apparently doesn't have the pull to do so? It's like Tannenbaum is making Rexy keep a player that Ryan despises

[........]

Brown has been somewhat of a bust mainly b/c he cannot stay healthy. When healthy he's a top back but he's never healthy and has had just one(barely) 1,000 yd season in his career.

It's way to early to label McKnight a bust but he hasn't shown us a thing. He was being counted on to help this team this year and it doesn't appear that will happen.


It's very disappointing to see b/c we gave away a guy like leon for nothing and drfated Mcknight thinking he was a younger, cheaper version and it hasn't happened yet but there's alot of football to be played so hopefully he eventually gets it.

I really think we drafted McKnight as a project. There was no reason to draft him to heavily contribute this season after LT was signed. I certainly think they expected him to be able to hold on to the ball, though, and that's where the disappointment comes from.

The team could have held on to Leon for this season and lost him for nothing, but I'm guessing they figured his contribution would be minimal if healthy too. They didn't bring in LT to sit on the bench. It was a tough spot to be in when the offseason started. LT is available, and you have no idea how healthy Leon will be. Once they landed him, they could afford to wait on Leon. Once McKnight was available with that 4th round pick, though, they saw a guy in McKnight who had the potential to be an even better RB, and someone they didn't have to worry about resigning after this season. There was little chance Leon was a Jet in 2011.

Now, they're stuck waiting and hoping McKnight develops. It's not the worst position to be in this season, but the frustration with the fumbling is more than warranted. He had that problem in, I believe, his sophomore year before fixing it.

[........]

I don't want to broach this, but is it disconcerting to anyone else that Ryan appears to want to cut McKnight for being a lazy sloppy player but apparently doesn't have the pull to do so? It's like Tannenbaum is making Rexy keep a player that Ryan despises

No. I don't think that's true at all.

[MadBacker Prime]

No muscle tone?.... he looked ok on Hard Knocks, the scene where he was bent over....kidding about the bent over part but he looked normal to me anyhow.

I don't know why a 3rd or 4th RB warrants this much arguing. He is what he is a developmental project. Whether he does or not....meh


Btw Emmitt Smith was a dough boy and it worked out fine for him.



I was their, his legs look like chicken pokes.

I in now way want to see him cut, I may not be happy with his preseason performance but it is not like he's vital to us at all right now.

I hope he can one day replace LT-


I was looking up Leon's rookie stats since he was also a fourth rounder. I was surprised to see how well he did. BUt Leon was special, someone was saying that earlier.

[AlioTheFool]

I really think we drafted McKnight as a project. There was no reason to draft him to heavily contribute this season after LT was signed. I certainly think they expected him to be able to hold on to the ball, though, and that's where the disappointment comes from.

The team could have held on to Leon for this season and lost him for nothing, but I'm guessing they figured his contribution would be minimal if healthy too. They didn't bring in LT to sit on the bench. It was a tough spot to be in when the offseason started. LT is available, and you have no idea how healthy Leon will be. Once they landed him, they could afford to wait on Leon. Once McKnight was available with that 4th round pick, though, they saw a guy in McKnight who had the potential to be an even better RB, and someone they didn't have to worry about resigning after this season. There was little chance Leon was a Jet in 2011.

Now, they're stuck waiting and hoping McKnight develops. It's not the worst position to be in this season, but the frustration with the fumbling is more than warranted. He had that problem in, I believe, his sophomore year before fixing it.

This is something critical that people don't consider. It's almost a definite that Leon would not have been a Jet in 2011. With all the contracts coming up running back was more than likely going to be a position where we'd cut corners to keep guys like Mangold and Harris.

When the opportunity presented itself to swap out a player who wasn't going to be more than 1 out of 4 downs player anyway, it made sense to take a chance on a project player.

Fumbling can fixed. McKnight's problems are entirely contained between his ears. Concentration and desire he lacks, but talent and skill he does not. It's amazing how people are so quick to write guys off (and I've admittedly been guilty of it myself.) Give the kid a chance people.

[BK_Jetsfan]

Are you not wearing your helmet today? A nobody since high school? Do you really think you get recruited by USC if you are a nobody?

People were stupid to call him the next Reggie Bush. That wasn't his fault. There may never be another Reggie Bush at the college level. His stats for 2009 were very good:

#4 RB - 2009 Stats: ATT 164, YDS 1,014, TD 8. He also had 146 yards receiving.

By comparison here's Leon's stats for 2005:

430 rushing, 279 receiving, 4 TD's. Though, he had a much better rushing year as a junior with 951 yards and 7 TD's.

Both were 4th round picks, appropriately. Where do people come up with this shit?

Do you actually watch college football? Most of those numbers came from inferior teams, plus he was on USC, which was more of a passing threat and gave him more running lanes.

I really think the conversation in here missed the point. Comparing him to Washington, Woodhead, Leon, Bush, Greene or anyone else is irrelevant. The focus is on HIM. What can HE do for this team? And the facts are (1) he came to his FIRST minicamp completely out of shape (2) was throwing up from simply running (correct me if I'm wrong, he is a RUNNING back right?); (3) failed simple conditioning tests; (4) fumbles if someone sneezes at him; (5) when he's not fumbling, he can't find or hit a whole; and (6) but for one game, hasn't looked all that great in special teams either.

If he didn't go to USC, and he weren't a 4th round pick, I doubt he'd have so many supporters. But, as I've said about Gholston for the past 2 years, I'd LOVE to be proven wrong and eat crow (and sorry, that shit STILL hasn't happened with Gholston either).

[........]

I was their, his legs look like chicken pokes.

I in now way want to see him cut, I may not be happy with his preseason performance but it is not like he's vital to us at all right now.

I hope he can one day replace LT-


I was looking up Leon's rookie stats since he was also a fourth rounder. I was surprised to see how well he did. BUt Leon was special, someone was saying that earlier.

Leon was pressed into action by a subpar RB committee and injury, and he performed quite admirably, especially for that early-mid stretch when we especially needed him. I was always surprised the CS didn't feel comfortable giving him heavier carries after that rookie year.

[lamont_jordan_rules]

If i sucked as much as him at my job id have been laid off 15 minutes into sitting in my cubicle.

... you'd also have dropped your pen entering the cube! ...






l_j_r

[........]

Do you actually watch college football? Most of those numbers came from inferior teams, plus he was on USC, which was more of a passing threat and gave him more running lanes.

Do you watch college football? USC had one non-major opponent on the schedule, and that was San Jose St.

USC had the 44th ranked rushing offense and the 54th ranked passing offense. They attempted 379 passes to 438 rushes. Calling them more of a passing threat is a bit silly.

How many USC games did you catch last season? I saw just about all of them. The year before, too. They're the best team in my local market, and I went to a Pac 10 school, so I tend to watch the Pac 10 above all else. McKnight looked like a complete RB last season, and had progressed considerably since his sophomore season.

He's had a terrible preseason and is having difficulty adjusting to the NFL. No one is suggesting otherwise. This bullshit about him not being solid in college, however, is ridiculous.

[BK_Jetsfan]

Do you watch college football? USC had one non-major opponent on the schedule, and that was San Jose St.

USC had the 44th ranked rushing offense and the 54th ranked passing offense. They attempted 379 passes to 438 rushes. Calling them more of a passing threat is a bit silly.

How many USC games did you catch last season? I saw just about all of them. The year before, too. They're the best team in my local market, and I went to a Pac 10 school, so I tend to watch the Pac 10 above all else. McKnight looked like a complete RB last season, and had progressed considerably since his sophomore season.

He's had a terrible preseason and is having difficulty adjusting to the NFL. No one is suggesting otherwise. This bullshit about him not being solid in college, however, is ridiculous.

OK, I will be honest and concede something for purposes of this: I HATE the PAC 10, I think they're incredibly overrated and have only 2 real teams. I'm an SEC man. So I may be biased.

That said, I stand by saying he wasn't terribly impressive in college, because to me he wasn't (I was pissed with this pick at the time, and have seen nothing from this kid in the slightest bit to change that).

Only time will tell.

[HighFlyingJets]

Joe McKnight should be just fine.

Last season he was a stand out star for that USC offense. During his first two seasons with USC he rushed the football 183 times for 1199 yards, which was an average of 6.5 yards per carry to go along with 5 TD's. During his 3rd and final year with USC last season he exploded for 1014 rushing yards, average yards per carry of 6.2 to go along with 8 TD's.

He's only a rookie learning on the fly. Maybe too many Jet fans are expecting this kid to replace Leon Washington as of right now? Thats just not going to happen.

When thinking about the future of McKnight, I always try and keep in mind that not even Leon Washington was an offensive factor during his rookie season, until Lamont Jordan called it quits towards the end of 2006. He's our #3 back behind both Greene and L.T, any production from this kid will become an added bonus for the Jets offense this season.

[MadBacker Prime]

Not sure if this was posted anywhere, it's from a few hours ago.


Jets in process of trimming roster to 53 »
BY MANISH MEHTA

The Jets will be cutting its roster down to the mandatory 53 over the next two days (deadline is Saturday at 6pm). Remember that Santonio Holmes, who will be suspended for the first four games, will not count against the 53-man roster until he returns.

Some of these guys could be back on the practice squad if they clear waivers.

We'll try to keep you updated on the cuts as best as possible.

Fullback Jason Davis is the first to get the ax this morning, according to a source. Not a big surprise after Rex Ryan said he'd keep veteran Tony Richardson and rookie John Conner. Davis, who was solid in the offseason, will surely land on his feet on another team.

Wide Receiver Larry Taylor was also cut, according to a source. Taylor, of course, was battling David Clowney for the final WR spot. Although I haven't received official word yet, it appears now that Clowney will make the roster. The coaches believe he can be a solid gunner on special teams with his size and speed. Again, it's not official yet. But all signs point in that direction right now.

Rex Ryan said last night that rookie LB Josh Mauga & S Don Warren weren't going to make the roster. Both had been plagued by concussions in camp and the preseason.

LB Brashton Satele, who was injured for much of camp and preseason, was cut, per a source.

A few more predictable cuts, per sources: LB Tim Knicky, C Robby Felix and safety Emanuel Cook, who had an INT last night, and recently signed safety Keith Fitzhugh also got the ax.

Source tells me that DTs Martin Tevaseu and DT Ty Steinkuhler are goners too.

LB Boris Lee was just informed that he's been waived too.

That makes 12 cuts thus far. Jets need to make nine more to get down the appropriate number.



Read more: To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

I for one am happy made the squad over Taylor, I do wish they could've found a spot for Davis but we are carrying more then backs. Everything else seems obvious.

[Pluvrr]

Good cuts. Cook's INT really just fell in his lap so I don't think that helped him too much.

[Italian Seafood]

I'm not going to read through eight pages of this and Mr E berating everyone for pointing out the obvious. Watching the game again and looking at the pre-season as a whole, I think the practice squad is the right place for McKnight. He obviously has ability and I'd hate to cut him, especially after drafting him, but he's not ready to play in games yet and would be a dead roster spot for that reason. As I understand it, this is exactly what the practice squad is for.

Adding Chauncey Washington and John Conner to Greene, LT and T-Rich would really enhance the Ground and Pound, in my opinion. I also think Woodhead should be on the team somewhere, he's just too good of a football player to deny.

[rex2009]

I'm not going to read through eight pages of this and Mr E berating everyone for pointing out the obvious. Watching the game again and looking at the pre-season as a whole, I think the practice squad is the right place for McKnight. He obviously has ability and I'd hate to cut him, especially after drafting him, but he's not ready to play in games yet and would be a dead roster spot for that reason. As I understand it, this is exactly what the practice squad is for.

Adding Chauncey Washington and John Conner to Greene, LT and T-Rich would really enhance the Ground and Pound, in my opinion. I also think Woodhead should be on the team somewhere, he's just too good of a football player to deny.


They can't put him on the practice squad. He would be claimed in a second. The guy has talent let's show some patience. It takes some players a little longer to develop aka Gholston.

[Italian Seafood]

They can't put him on the practice squad. He would be claimed in a second. The guy has talent let's show some patience. It takes some players a little longer to develop aka Gholston.

It depends if there's a roster spot for a guy who can't contribute. Gholston had a lot of guaranteed money because he was drafted #6 overall, I'm not sure about McKnight. If someone picks him up he's not going to be ready to play for them, either.

[........]

It depends if there's a roster spot for a guy who can't contribute. Gholston had a lot of guaranteed money because he was drafted #6 overall, I'm not sure about McKnight. If someone picks him up he's not going to be ready to play for them, either.

8 guys can't suit up every week. That's exactly where McKnight should be right now.

[rex2009]

It depends if there's a roster spot for a guy who can't contribute. Gholston had a lot of guaranteed money because he was drafted #6 overall, I'm not sure about McKnight. If someone picks him up he's not going to be ready to play for them, either.


My point is that another team will pick him up in a second. There are a lot of teams that would gladly find a spot for him and try to develop him. That's exactly why Tanny and Rex have him on the team, they know he would be claimed immediately.

[RevisAndHarris]

8 guys can't suit up every week. That's exactly where McKnight should be right now.

He's afraid of contact, that's all it is. You can see it on his runs. He'll always take the ball outside because he doesn't have to get hit as much.

Rex was completely right... He needs to drop his nuts and run. Maybe a fight with a linebacker will do the trick?

[1968jetsfan]

He's afraid of contact, that's all it is. You can see it on his runs. He'll always take the ball outside because he doesn't have to get hit as much.

Rex was completely right... He needs to drop his nuts and run. Maybe a fight with a linebacker will do the trick?

Naw better solution, have the Terminator tell him "either let the defense hit you or I'll hit you".....I think there's only like 5 or 6 guys in the NFL I'd fear betting hit by more than Conner at this point, lol...

[NDmick]

He's afraid of contact, that's all it is. You can see it on his runs. He'll always take the ball outside because he doesn't have to get hit as much.

Rex was completely right... He needs to drop his nuts and run. Maybe a fight with a linebacker will do the trick?
He still thinks he can out juke everyone.

Once he learns to hit the hole and get to the 2nd level, make one move to get 3 more yards and maybe deal with a safety 1 on 1, then he'll have success in this league.


And no fumbling.

[Italian Seafood]

8 guys can't suit up every week. That's exactly where McKnight should be right now.

Is that not the practice squad? I'm not versed in all of that. I just don't think he's ready to play in games, wouldn't want to give up on him if there's a place to put him where he can learn, but right now there's better guys to fill the spots for real games.

[rex2009]

The good news is that his problem is fumbling the ball not his level of skill. Hanging onto the ball can be taught, natural skill level cannot. The coaching staff needs to coach him up. They wouldn't keep him around if they didn't see the potential. There is no need to make knee jerk reactions and start cutting everyone that didn't immediately live up to the expectations. That's what losing organizations do.

[........]

He still thinks he can out juke everyone.

Once he learns to hit the hole and get to the 2nd level, make one move to get 3 more yards and maybe deal with a safety 1 on 1, then he'll have success in this league.


And no fumbling.

I agree. I also think one problem is his vision hasn't caught up to the NFL yet. He's got a great first cut, but the huge difference in the size of the holes is causing hesitation at this level.

I really had hoped to see him behind our first team line. The holes were pathetic for all 3 backups, but Washington is a straight ahead back and Woodhead has been at this level long enough to know that you run first and THEN trust the hole will open or cut it back.

[........]

Is that not the practice squad? I'm not versed in all of that. I just don't think he's ready to play in games, wouldn't want to give up on him if there's a place to put him where he can learn, but right now there's better guys to fill the spots for real games.

No, the practice squad is different. We have a 53 man active roster, but only 45 can suit up. Clemens and 7 others will be sitting for every game.

[........]

The good news is that his problem is fumbling the ball not his level of skill. Hanging onto the ball can be taught, natural skill level cannot. The coaching staff needs to coach him up. They wouldn't keep him around if they didn't see the potential. There is no need to make knee jerk reactions and start cutting everyone that didn't immediately live up to the expectations. That's what losing organizations do.

It's not his only problem, it's just the most troubling one because it's a fundamentals issue that he had early at USC. Once he settles down and gets some coaching, it should go away.

[DeathByJets]

It depends if there's a roster spot for a guy who can't contribute. Gholston had a lot of guaranteed money because he was drafted #6 overall, I'm not sure about McKnight. If someone picks him up he's not going to be ready to play for them, either.

I looked it up last night (McKnight's salary). It is about $500K in guaranteed money and then ~$350K is base salary for this year. Total value of the contract is about $2.5M.

[Italian Seafood]

No, the practice squad is different. We have a 53 man active roster, but only 45 can suit up. Clemens and 7 others will be sitting for every game.

Gotcha, thanks. That's what I meant, somewhere he stays on the Jets but doesn't take up a spot for someone we need in games right now. Like rex2009 said, he can be taught not to fumble and he can also learn to be more physical.

Clowney to me looks more physical and aggressive than in the past. Before this year it seemed like he either ran past everyone or got hit and broke, this year he seems to me getting in there more. Probably because he know STs is his ticket to stay on the team.

[German Jets Fan]

life isnt fair.

you do realize that there are a handfull of inactive slots every single week which means members of the 53 do not play. It doesnt matter who you stick there every week, they aren't going to play.

So sure you could put Chauncey there, and hes on the roster, but not actually helping us anymore than Mcknight would be in the inactive position.

So I ask you this, if you are going to keep one of the two and have them inactive all season, which one are you keeping, the guy who has flashed his impressive potential, but hasn't grasped the speed of the game, or the guy with very limited potential who has run better this preseason

Chauncey has rushed for a grand total of 75 yards on carries, for an average of 3.75 ypc. Which sadly is not even a good ypc against scrubs who won't be making NFL teams. That counts his long runs this preseason. He also has a great ST tackle which forced a fumble. Chauncey has 2 fumbles

Mcknight has run for 104 yards, on 38 carries for an average of 2.75 yards. While horrendous, it doesnt account for the wiggle and slides we see that shows Joe's potential. He is still hesitating as a runner, and needs to grow into himself. Mcknight also has a 67 yard punt return. Mcknight has three fumbles

Chauncey has pretty much reached his maximum potential. Mcknight hasnt, so if both guys are going to be inactive all season, we might as well keep the guy with the much higher ceiling in hopes he can develop and reach his potential.

How are Chances a #3 RB will be inactive all Season?

There´s a ton of examples at RB, where determination beats skill in this league. If it comes down to it, I´ll always take the guy who wants it more.

[Skicats]

I think he has a big upside as a returner, and as a receiver out of the backfield. While I'm on the subject of passes out of the backfield, why can't the Jets get the screen pass down? It's been like 40 years since they have been able to do the screen with any success. To me, with the talent of some of our backs, including Mcknight, the screen could be a huge weapon for the Jets, if they could figure out how to run it.

[Hobbes3259]

I honestly haven't seen anything from McKnight to understand why people have such high hopes for him. I don't watch college football though.

I do notice the same ones that have a hardon for McNot, are also the most strident pro-Mevi$ types.

Including people that post shit like this

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

And this

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and this

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Apparently The coaching staff disagrees with you, and agrees with me.

[rex2009]

Amazing the knee jerk reaction group is out in full force! The talent is there, he is just a mental midget right now. Leon Washington had a slew of problems during his rookie pre-season and he turned into a pro bowler. Patience is required which few posters on here seem to have.

[JCotchrocket]

McKnight has one season to get up to speed. If he doesn't resemble a 3rd running back by April, we need to draft someone else or re-evaluate Woodhead and Washington, decide if they can be long-term Jets.

I jumped on board the "redshirt McKnight" bandwagon. I'm still on board, because McKnight's ceiling is sky-high. But his floor is also pretty fucking low, and I've seen more floor than ceiling so far.

But here's the bottom line: you can spend a couple years developing a lineman. You can spend multiple years developing a linebacker or a quarterback or a wide receiver. But if you spend more than one year developing a running back, you're a foolish franchise.

So we'll see. If this man is taking punt returns to the house in January, then that's that. If this man is inactive in January, then that's that, as well.

[........]

I do notice the same ones that have a hardon for McNot, are also the most strident pro-Mevi$ types.

Including people that post shit like this

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

And this

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and this

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Apparently The coaching staff disagrees with you, and agrees with me.

What's wrong with what I wrote after the 2nd preseason game?

Look, I like Danny Woodhead for his effort and shiftiness, but what exactly did you see last night to tell you that he's consistently demonstrated the most ability? He had two positive runs and they were both on draw plays on passing downs.

As for his hands, I was watching on the computer so it may have been different, but didn't he drop a very catchable pass?

I thought McKnight and Washington, aside from the fumbles, both looked better than he did last night. I'd like to see a few more targets in the 4th game (he won't play much in the 3rd) to see what his hands are like, but last night didn't give much of an indication.

I agree with all of that. Notice how clearly I said "aside from the fumbles". The fumbles are McKnight's biggest problem, and they're pretty fucking huge. That's why the CS doesn't trust him right now. He can't hold on to the ball. That's why Woodhead will make the roster. Like I said, I like his effort and his shiftiness, but he hasn't done anything to make me think he's even a better running back right now than McKnight aside from the fumbles.

I asked you an honest question in that thread, and you threw it back in my face as "shit"? Hell, even last night, McKnight had a higher average YPC than Woodhead by the tiniest of margins (3.77 to 3.75). And that was against the better defenders for the Eagles. I even said I wanted to see more targets for Woodhead in Game 4. We still didn't get that.

And nobody is "pro-Mevidollarsign". You shouldn't have to make things up, but that's consistently what you do.

[ThunderbirdJet]

What's wrong with what I wrote after the 2nd preseason game?



I agree with all of that. Notice how clearly I said "aside from the fumbles". The fumbles are McKnight's biggest problem, and they're pretty fucking huge. That's why the CS doesn't trust him right now. He can't hold on to the ball. That's why Woodhead will make the roster. Like I said, I like his effort and his shiftiness, but he hasn't done anything to make me think he's even a better running back right now than McKnight aside from the fumbles.

I asked you an honest question in that thread, and you threw it back in my face as "shit"? Hell, even last night, McKnight had a higher average YPC than Woodhead by the tiniest of margins (3.77 to 3.75). And that was against the better defenders for the Eagles. I even said I wanted to see more targets for Woodhead in Game 4. We still didn't get that.

And nobody is "pro-Mevidollarsign". You shouldn't have to make things up, but that's consistently what you do.

The fumbles are the biggest issue, but he needs work as a punt returner too. He let 2 punts get downed inside the 5 twice against Philly. Can't have that either. Truth is, he needs to work on all aspects of his game, some more than others. He will get that time. The question is, will he respond? I have my doubts, but he's on the team, so I truely hope he does.

That doesn't mean I think he will. He has the tools, I'm not sure he has the head for it.

[Hobbes3259]

And nobody is "pro-Mevidollarsign". You shouldn't have to make things up, but that's consistently what you do.

That's not what a fair reading of the Mevi$ thread implies.

I will say, you are far less strident than the others.

And looking back...at what I posted...you're right...my implication was unfair in your regard..

My apologies.

[........]

That's not what a fair reading of the Mevi$ thread implies.

I will say, you are far less strident than the others.

And looking back...at what I posted...you're right...my implication was unfair in your regard..

My apologies.

It's all good. You're fun to argue with.

I don't want anyone to think I like what Revis is doing. I just don't see the implications of his hold out as black and white. He's doing some damage to the team right now, but not much until he misses game time. As far as his persona off the field, if half of what we're hearing is true, he's not someone I'd care to associate with personally, but I'll still be glad as hell to have him on the field helping this team.

[Hobbes3259]

It's all good. You're fun to argue with.

I don't want anyone to think I like what Revis is doing. I just don't see the implications of his hold out as black and white. He's doing some damage to the team right now, but not much until he misses game time. As far as his persona off the field, if half of what we're hearing is true, he's not someone I'd care to associate with personally, but I'll still be glad as hell to have him on the field helping this team.

No, it's not good...I enjoy debating with you as well, but it wasn't fair to lump you in with Cato and Mr.E...


As I said..I apologize..

[CatoTheElder]

I do notice the same ones that have a hardon for McNot, are also the most strident pro-Mevi$ types.
Oh look, Hobbes posted two gay nicknames in one post!
Including people that post shit like this

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And this

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and this

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Apparently The coaching staff disagrees with you, and agrees with me.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!

[The Jutty]

I do notice the same ones that have a hardon for McNot, are also the most strident pro-Mevi$ types.


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If we can keep Coleman around we can keep someone who actually has potential, and being pro-Revis is a good thing. The best possible situation for us is to have him signed before the season. People screaming trade him before the season starts are really dumb... fo real.

[CatoTheElder]

McKnight has one season to get up to speed. If he doesn't resemble a 3rd running back by April, we need to draft someone else or re-evaluate Woodhead and Washington, decide if they can be long-term Jets.

I jumped on board the "redshirt McKnight" bandwagon. I'm still on board, because McKnight's ceiling is sky-high. But his floor is also pretty fucking low, and I've seen more floor than ceiling so far.

But here's the bottom line: you can spend a couple years developing a lineman. You can spend multiple years developing a linebacker or a quarterback or a wide receiver. But if you spend more than one year developing a running back, you're a foolish franchise.

So we'll see. If this man is taking punt returns to the house in January, then that's that. If this man is inactive in January, then that's that, as well.

Not that I disagree with anything here, but I think that first paragraph is a little premature.

Even if he turns out to be nothing more than a decent punt returner, he's still worth it for a 4th round pick. All he needs to do is justify his draft position is to lear how to hold onto the ball. If he turns out to be productive as a HB, great. If not, oh well.

And I'll just go ahead and say this now: I really don't care about any comparison to Leon with McKnight. Leon's career with the Jets ended with his leg injury and his contract dispute during the offseason.

[milo]

Just based on what we've seen there's no way you get rid of Woodhead now, no matter what we do with McKnight, who I wouldn't be shocked if he's flat-out cut. You have to do A LOT wrong for Rex to shit on you in public. The last guy he was this willing to punk at the podium was Sherry, and we all know how that turned out.

[legler82]

Was there this much uproar when Greene was laying the ball on the carpet left and right early on last year in GAMES THAT ACTUALLY COUNTED? Just wondering.

For the poster that was questioning is 2009 stats and the competition he faced. Ironically his worst statistical game was argueably his most impressive. Where he had failed to meet all the Bush comparisons up to the Ohio St game, in that game he surpassed Bush IMO in the department of being a true RB that can get the tough yards between the tackles. IMO he was the best player on a field loaded with potential NFL players. He got every tough yard against that very good Buckeye defense. W/o McKnight, USC loses that game easy. In the words of Rex Ryan, his nuts dropped right before our eyes.

At McKnight's worst, which would be right now, one can still make a reasonable arguement to keep him over CW and DW. At his best or even an average McKnight is no contest. Isn't that worth a "gamble"? What do we have to lose? Chauncey Washington? Danny Woodhead? Just have patience. It took him a while at SC too. Once the light comes, this arguement will seem silly in hindsight.

[Italian Seafood]

Was there this much uproar when Greene was laying the ball on the carpet left and right early on last year in GAMES THAT ACTUALLY COUNTED? Just wondering.


Yeah there was. Put the ball on the ground and people notice. I mentioned it in a thread the other day, sure I'm not the only one.

[Green Lantern]

Leon Washington. Danny Woodhead. Chauncey Washington.
Is Joe McNight better than any of these guys?
And if Rex/Tanny know something about him that we don't, does that mean they also know future lottery numbers?

[Jetfanmack]

Leon Washington. Danny Woodhead. Chauncey Washington.
Is Joe McNight better than any of these guys?
And if Rex/Tanny know something about him that we don't, does that mean they also know future lottery numbers?

We picked up Woodhead as a UDFA and Chauncey midseason. It sucks losing both of him, but who's to say we can't pick up either of them or even someone else later in the season in case we need an RB.

Even if McKnight is a major bust who can't play in the NFL, we still have 2 good backs. If an injury were to come down, it would suck though. Not happy about Chauncey to the Rams. Good for him, but not happy about it from a team perspective though. Hopefully we can sign a promising runningback elsewhere to our PS or something.

[nyjunc]

We picked up Woodhead as a UDFA and Chauncey midseason. It sucks losing both of him, but who's to say we can't pick up either of them or even someone else later in the season in case we need an RB.

Even if McKnight is a major bust who can't play in the NFL, we still have 2 good backs. If an injury were to come down, it would suck though. Not happy about Chauncey to the Rams. Good for him, but not happy about it from a team perspective though. Hopefully we can sign a promising runningback elsewhere to our PS or something.

Well the problem is we not only wasted a 4th rd pick on McKnight(assuming he turns out to be a bust) but we also gave away leon for nothing once we got him.

[Mr Electric]

Well the problem is we not only wasted a 4th rd pick on McKnight(assuming he turns out to be a bust) but we also gave away leon for nothing once we got him.

Actually, we got John Conner who's already made a huge impact on special teams.

I honestly don't know how you can label a developmental, fourth round pick a bust.

The organization didn't have enough money to spend it on a return man.

[NDmick]

All draft picks are gauged by their first month of the season.

[biggundewayne63]

betwen wilson, ducasse, and mcnight this draft is looking like a botch early on.

[NDmick]

betwen wilson, ducasse, and mcnight this draft is looking like a botch early on.
yep.

They are all busts on a team loaded with talent.

[Mr Electric]

betwen wilson, ducasse, and mcnight this draft is looking like a botch early on.

You have been added to my "...doesn't know shit" list.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

yep.

They are all busts on a team loaded with talent.

Not to mention undisciplined and classless. Fire Tanny now!

[MikeHoncho]

Not to mention undisciplined and classless. Fire Tanny now!

Fire Rex, he can't develop talent!

[truthbtold]

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I know LT has been doing a great job for us, but still ...
Somebody please remind me ... In an uncapped year, why isn't he a member of this team??

[biggundewayne63]

You have been added to my "...doesn't know shit" list.

you might want to include yourself on that list because i said EARLY ON. can you read? two of them dont dress for games and one has stuggled. not looking like tannys greatest draft EARLY ON. EARLY ON.

[milo]

betwen wilson, ducasse, and mcnight this draft is looking like a botch early on.

Yeah clearly a bust year for our draft picks.

Two years in a row we've picked horrible players and we refuse to get rid of them.

What ever happened to that Sanchez guy anyway?

[NDmick]

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I know LT has been doing a great job for us, but still ...
Somebody please remind me ... In an uncapped year, why isn't he a member of this team??
Here's a couple of reminders:

Broken Leg
Alvin Keels
Mrs. Washington
Return Man
3rd RB on the depth chart
Wanted Jones-Drew money
GTFO

And the uncapped year isn't exactly uncapped.

[........]

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

I know LT has been doing a great job for us, but still ...
Somebody please remind me ... In an uncapped year, why isn't he a member of this team??

Because he wouldn't have been doing anything but returning kicks, isn't that much of a step up over Brad Smith in doing so, and we would have lost him in the offseason with absolutely nothing coming back in return.

We got a hell of a FB by trading him away in the offseason. McKnight very well may have been the pick in the 4th even if we weren't able to trade away Washington, as we were looking for someone able to take over in a few years.

We haven't seen McKnight in nearly a month. I guarantee no one has been sitting around ignoring him this whole time. They're working with him, developing him, and shoring up that fumbling problem. As soon as they feel that last part is dealt with satisfactorily, we may see him active and returning punts.

[maynardsmyhero-uk]

Ducasse will play RT next year . In my opinion our LG for the future is likely to be signed in the off season , Slauson is adequate on a very good oline .

Wilson is already a good nickel back , in time his skills will improve as amazingly all rookis seem to...except VG!

McKnight is a 4th rd pick that either turns to gold next year or possibly not but its a 4th rd pick and people need to realise that . Brad Smith was a bust this time last year now he is the black OJ Simpson.

[rex-N-effects]

lol you guys are funny. at least there are only a few stupid comments and then a bunch of smarter people mocking them.

Look rookies are rookies for a reason, they are not expected to do great. we've been spoiled b drafting players that started right away and became studs. revis, brick, mangold, harris, keller, to name a few but thats not the norm. so what if it takes ducasse, mcknight, and wilson a few years before they look good

[........]

you might want to include yourself on that list because i said EARLY ON. can you read? two of them dont dress for games and one has stuggled. not looking like tannys greatest draft EARLY ON. EARLY ON.

The problem is that you're even ATTEMPTING to say what a draft looks like EARLY ON. A whole lot of people don't bother evaluating a draft for 3 years, let alone after 3 weeks.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

Here's a couple of reminders:

Broken Leg
Alvin Keels
Mrs. Washington
Return Man
3rd RB on the depth chart
Wanted Jones-Drew money
GTFO

And the uncapped year isn't exactly uncapped.

Nobody wants to hear these things.

BUT LEON WAS MY FAVORITE JETS F U WOODY BURN IN HELL!!!1!!

[maynardsmyhero-uk]

Fire Tanny i still cannot believe we cut Curtis Martin....

[........]

It also bears mentioning that Brad Smith is 4th in KOR average. He's the highest ranked KOR without a TD, and it's possible that he'll be ahead of Leon by the end of the season.

Anyone longing for Leon's 11 carries for 29 yards is missing something upstairs. LT has been phenomenal this season, and while Leon may improve as he gets more comfortable, there simply wasn't going to be much of a place for him on offense. We lost one season of Leon returning kicks and gained John Conner for at least 3 seasons. It was a hell of a trade for us.

[milo]

Well at least no one started the "WTF you got rid of Feely??!!!" thread after Folk missed a 61 yarder.

[Leicester Jet]

Give them time!!!

[biggundewayne63]

The problem is that you're even ATTEMPTING to say what a draft looks like EARLY ON. A whole lot of people don't bother evaluating a draft for 3 years, let alone after 3 weeks.

your right its a stretch to attempt to say what it looks like now but there isnt much going on right now 2-1 and facing the bills and ive been sick of the braylon dwi since the day after it happened.

[Rockefella]

Draft talent expectations in the future by grade, IMO

Wilson - A
Ducasse - B
Conner - A
McKnight - C

[nyjunc]

Actually, we got John Conner who's already made a huge impact on special teams.

I honestly don't know how you can label a developmental, fourth round pick a bust.

The organization didn't have enough money to spend it on a return man.

I haven't labeled him a bust, he was sfrated to take leon's place and he's shown nothing so I'm a bit disappointed.

We could have gotten a 5th rd pick and given up less than leon. heck we could have trdaed back w/ that 4th rd pick we used on McKnight and gotten another pick and Connor.

The organization had plenty of monry, he wasn't getting big money especially coming off that injury and once he is 100% he's much more than just a return man.

Here's a couple of reminders:

Broken Leg
Alvin Keels
Mrs. Washington
Return Man
3rd RB on the depth chart
Wanted Jones-Drew money
GTFO

And the uncapped year isn't exactly uncapped.

ok on broken leg
many agents are difficult
his wife did nothing wrong
great return man
you don't have to give every player what they want and he wasn't getting close to what he wanted coming off the injury.

I need to say this again, Tannebaum has made very few mistakes so we can live w/ this one but this was a mistake.

[Jets n Boys]

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I know LT has been doing a great job for us, but still ...
Somebody please remind me ... In an uncapped year, why isn't he a member of this team??
Because John Connor is.

[rex-N-effects]

Well at least no one started the "WTF you got rid of Feely??!!!" thread after Folk missed a 61 yarder.

give it time

[nyjunc]

Because John Connor is.

You guys act like we couldn't have got Connor if we didn't trade Leon.

[slimjasi]

You guys act like we couldn't have got Connor if we didn't trade Leon.

very good point.

[........]

I haven't labeled him a bust, he was sfrated to take leon's place and he's shown nothing so I'm a bit disappointed.

We could have gotten a 5th rd pick and given up less than leon. heck we could have trdaed back w/ that 4th rd pick we used on McKnight and gotten another pick and Connor.

The organization had plenty of monry, he wasn't getting big money especially coming off that injury and once he is 100% he's much more than just a return man.

He was NOT drafted to replace Leon this season. That's LT. McKnight was drafted as the future replacement.

Leon was on Sirius yesterday and reiterated that he loved his teammates in New York, but he couldn't stay there. We wouldn't have been able to re-sign him. That's really the bottom line. We got something while we still could.

ok on broken leg
many agents are difficult
his wife did nothing wrong
great return man
you don't have to give every player what they want and he wasn't getting close to what he wanted coming off the injury.

I need to say this again, Tannebaum has made very few mistakes so we can live w/ this one but this was a mistake.

Again, he didn't want to stay here, and he would have been gone after this season. Check what I posted about Smith. He's not nearly enough of a step down from Leon to keep Leon around just for STs.

[Jets n Boys]

I haven't labeled him a bust, he was sfrated to take leon's place and he's shown nothing so I'm a bit disappointed.

We could have gotten a 5th rd pick and given up less than leon. heck we could have trdaed back w/ that 4th rd pick we used on McKnight and gotten another pick and Connor.

The organization had plenty of monry, he wasn't getting big money especially coming off that injury and once he is 100% he's much more than just a return man.



ok on broken leg
many agents are difficult
his wife did nothing wrong
great return man
you don't have to give every player what they want and he wasn't getting close to what he wanted coming off the injury.

I need to say this again, Tannebaum has made very few mistakes so we can live w/ this one but this was a mistake.

Hindsight is 2020. Leon was coming off a major injury so you can't blame Tanny either. McKnight was supposed to be decent, but so far he's not. I too wish we could get Leon back, but that meant we had to pay him a lot of money, even more than he got from Seattle.

[Mr Electric]

You guys act like we couldn't have got Connor if we didn't trade Leon.

With what draft pick?

[SixFeetDeep]

would you rather have leon or brad smith running the wildcat?

[Mr Electric]

would you rather have leon or brad smith running the wildcat?

Danny Woodhead

[TommyGreen]

Man, junc's arguments are becoming so fuckn' stupid that it's unbearable.

[IATA]

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

I know LT has been doing a great job for us, but still ...
Somebody please remind me ... In an uncapped year, why isn't he a member of this team??

You should be pissed, because you don't have a god damn clue.

[Mr Electric]

You should be pissed, because you don't have a god damn clue.

He has a raging clue for Leon Washington.

[rex-N-effects]

You guys act like we couldn't have got Connor if we didn't trade Leon.


we would have had to trade someone.

but your missing the main point, and that is money. leon wanted 5 mil a year and was coming off a big injury. we had to worry about paying brick, mangold, revis, harris, cromartie, holmes, and BE. all of those players are players that are better then leon. If letting leon go gets us 1 extra of those guys its more then worth it. even if we kept leon in this uncapped year we wouldn't resign after the 1 season anyway because there will be a cap again next year and look at the list of 7 guys who need to be paid first i posted. we took care of gold, brick, and revis but still have harris , BE, Homes, and Cromartie. We can't even afford to resign all of them probably only 1 or 2 at best so how could we even think about paying leon?

[ace_o_spades]

Didn't we trade up for McKnight in the 4th round? And we traded our fifth for Santonio Holmes so we had no fifth round pick before trading Washington right?

[........]

People really need to take into consideration that Leon would have been here for ONE more season PERIOD. The argument that we could have retained him for less money after the injury holds no water when Leon himself is saying that he COULDN'T stay with the Jets.

[Rextasy]

I would have been fine having Leon for one more season and he would have helped this team greatly. We got nothing for him by trading him this year, no big deal losing him for nothing next year.

[rex-N-effects]

Didn't we trade up for McKnight in the 4th round? And we traded our fifth for Santonio Holmes so we had no fifth round pick before trading Washington right?

we had no 5th rounder, we had a 4th and we used a 6th i believe to trade up in the 4th and grab mcknight then traded away leon for a 5th where we took john connor

[WhiteShoeWillis]

I would have been fine having Leon for one more season and he would have helped this team greatly. We got nothing for him by trading him this year, no big deal losing him for nothing next year.
What do you mean we got nothing?

[........]

I would have been fine having Leon for one more season and he would have helped this team greatly. We got nothing for him by trading him this year, no big deal losing him for nothing next year.

We got Conner.

Again, how greatly would he have helped this team? Without him, we still have the 4th best KOR in the league right now, and Brad Smith routinely breaks as many tackles as Leon had to on those return TDs. If we played a team with coverage like San Diego's on Sunday, Smith would have had one too.

We haven't had a 3rd RB yet, and given Leon's 11 carries for 29 yards so far, I don't think he'd have been much help if we did use him in that regard.

[Rextasy]

What do you mean we got nothing?

We got the value of a 6th rounder which is nothing in comparison to the player Leon is.

[Rextasy]

We got Conner.

Again, how greatly would he have helped this team? Without him, we still have the 4th best KOR in the league right now, and Brad Smith routinely breaks as many tackles as Leon had to on those return TDs. If we played a team with coverage like San Diego's on Sunday, Smith would have had one too.

We haven't had a 3rd RB yet, and given Leon's 11 carries for 29 yards so far, I don't think he'd have been much help if we did use him in that regard.

We could have gotten Conner in the 4th if he is that important, which IMO he will be. We wouldn't have had to waste a pick on McKnight and could have easily replaced Leon next year when he leaves as a FA, if he left.

I find it hard to believe a player with Leons skillset couldn't help us this year at all. A couple carries a game plus KRs and who knows what Leon could do.

[DirtySanchez]

betwen wilson, ducasse, and mcnight this draft is looking like a botch early on.

Rookie CB's usually have a rough time. As far as McKnight, yeah he looked like crap, and RB is usually listed as one of the positions that's easy to transition into the pros. Still, give the kid some time.

Leon wasn't staying with that injury and for MJD money. Yeah Woodhead and C. Washington looked like they were better than McKnight from the bits and pieces we saw from camp, but McKnight might have the higher upside potential.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.:tab-overview

[Mr Electric]

We could have gotten Conner in the 4th if he is that important, which IMO he will be. We wouldn't have had to waste a pick on McKnight and could have easily replaced Leon next year when he leaves as a FA, if he left.

John Conner didn't have much value in the fourth round.

Joe McKnight is a second round talent that fell into the fourth round. Moving up for him was the right thing to do.

During Sunday night's game, the commentators were talking about how much Tomlinson is helping Greene in the passing game. I'm willing to bet he's helping McKnight out just as much.

This was clearly a developmental pick, so give McKnight a "redshirt" season before you bitch about the move.

Washington had no role in our offense, especially after the LT signing. He'd be a forgotten man on offense. His only value here is as a return specialist and there's absolutely no reason to pay a return man MJD-type money.

We got our fullback of the future for a player that had no future here at all.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

We got the value of a 6th rounder which is nothing in comparison to the player Leon is.

We got the going rate for a very good kick returner coming off a severe injury.

[skipper]

Plain and simple Leon wanted more than he was worth to the team, and that inevitably spells "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out". Also, chances are he would have held out with Jets and we didn't need two players holding out. He is playing out West to prove himself to his new team and shoot for a better contract next year. Good luck to him and props to Tanny for moving him.

[nyjunc]

He was NOT drafted to replace Leon this season. That's LT. McKnight was drafted as the future replacement.

Leon was on Sirius yesterday and reiterated that he loved his teammates in New York, but he couldn't stay there. We wouldn't have been able to re-sign him. That's really the bottom line. We got something while we still could.



Again, he didn't want to stay here, and he would have been gone after this season. Check what I posted about Smith. He's not nearly enough of a step down from Leon to keep Leon around just for STs.

He absolutely was drafted to replace Leon THIS YEAR, they thought they had a younger, cheaper version. LT was not brought in here to take leon's role, he was brought n for a much bigger role on offense.

It's easy to say that now, he would have been here had we not traded him.

Hindsight is 2020. Leon was coming off a major injury so you can't blame Tanny either. McKnight was supposed to be decent, but so far he's not. I too wish we could get Leon back, but that meant we had to pay him a lot of money, even more than he got from Seattle.

I said it at the time so it's not hindsight.

With what draft pick?

We could have acquired a 5th rd pick and again we could have moved down from the 4th, got another pick, kept Leon and still drafted Connor.

Man, junc's arguments are becoming so fuckn' stupid that it's unbearable.

The only thing that is stupid was your childish response. I gte that as soon as guys leave the Jets they suck and as soon as they become Jets they are great- I'm sorry you don't like it when someone can be objective about our team. It was a mistake, he hasn't made many but that was one of them.

we would have had to trade someone.

but your missing the main point, and that is money. leon wanted 5 mil a year and was coming off a big injury. we had to worry about paying brick, mangold, revis, harris, cromartie, holmes, and BE. all of those players are players that are better then leon. If letting leon go gets us 1 extra of those guys its more then worth it. even if we kept leon in this uncapped year we wouldn't resign after the 1 season anyway because there will be a cap again next year and look at the list of 7 guys who need to be paid first i posted. we took care of gold, brick, and revis but still have harris , BE, Homes, and Cromartie. We can't even afford to resign all of them probably only 1 or 2 at best so how could we even think about paying leon?

You guys are missing he point, Leon wasn't getting big money off of the injury and his salary was meaningless anyway- it's about guaranteed money. I'm not sure what he wanted or what the Jets wanted to pay but the Jets had the hammer after the injury.

People really need to take into consideration that Leon would have been here for ONE more season PERIOD. The argument that we could have retained him for less money after the injury holds no water when Leon himself is saying that he COULDN'T stay with the Jets.

Holmes and Cromartie might be here for one season to but what if leon made a few plays that helped us win a SB? wouldn't it have been worth it even if we lost him after the year?

John Conner didn't have much value in the fourth round.

Joe McKnight is a second round talent that fell into the fourth round. Moving up for him was the right thing to do.

During Sunday night's game, the commentators were talking about how much Tomlinson is helping Greene in the passing game. I'm willing to bet he's helping McKnight out just as much.

This was clearly a developmental pick, so give McKnight a "redshirt" season before you bitch about the move.

Washington had no role in our offense, especially after the LT signing. He'd be a forgotten man on offense. His only value here is as a return specialist and there's absolutely no reason to pay a return man MJD-type money.

We got our fullback of the future for a player that had no future here at all.

You are too wrapped up in the draft and draft grades. Sometimes those grades are wrong and guys cannot play in this league, I'm not writing off McKnight yet but I'd feel more comfortable if a)he didn't puke at minicamp, b)didn't fail his conditioning test in TC and c)showed us anything in preseason.

[Mr Electric]

We could have acquired a 5th rd pick and again we could have moved down from the 4th, got another pick, kept Leon and still drafted Connor.

This isn't Madden.

You are too wrapped up in the draft and draft grades. Sometimes those grades are wrong and guys cannot play in this league, I'm not writing off McKnight yet but I'd feel more comfortable if a)he didn't puke at minicamp, b)didn't fail his conditioning test in TC and c)showed us anything in preseason.

McKnight had great value in the fourth and anyone (that isn't retarded) knows that.

Of course some of those grades will eventually be wrong, but you can't write off a developmental project three games into his rookie season.

I'd feel more comfortable if a) you knew what you were talking about, b) didn't fail your TGG knowledge test, and c) showed us anything on this message board.

[624]

All draft picks are gauged by their first month of the season.

Wrong.

Draft picks are gauged based off of Hard Knocks.

[........]

He absolutely was drafted to replace Leon THIS YEAR, they thought they had a younger, cheaper version. LT was not brought in here to take leon's role, he was brought n for a much bigger role on offense.

No. Leon's value this year would have been as a kick returner. Nothing more. McKnight wasn't going to take that role from Brad Smith, who performed well last season and is doing so again this year. LT is here to take on the role that Leon otherwise would have: pass catcher and COP back. The fact that he's seized a much larger share should tell you about his value vs. Leon's as a RB.

It's easy to say that now, he would have been here had we not traded him.

His wife was running her mouth about how unappreciated he was on Twitter prior to the trade. Ditto for Keels. He was gone, gone, gone next season no matter what.

Holmes and Cromartie might be here for one season to but what if leon made a few plays that helped us win a SB? wouldn't it have been worth it even if we lost him after the year?

What if, what if, what if? He's had two KOR for touchdowns against shoddy special teams. As soon as we lose a game because of Brad Smith, we'll talk. Until then, it's completely hypothetical nonsense. Leon has done nothing to help the Seahawks on offense thus far, and that's behind worse backs than Greene and Tomlinson.

I'll play the what if game. What if Conner makes a huge block on ST to spring Smith for a TD? What if he steps full time into the FB role late in the season and manages to key the return to dominance for our run game and it carries us to the SB? See how easy it is?

[MadBacker Prime]

Just some useless stat, Leon Washington is tied for 2nd on the all-time kick return for TD list with 6. (Tied with many others) Cribbs is in first with 8.

I'd like to see him take that record just so he has something to hang his hat on when it's all said and done.

[nyjunc]

This isn't Madden.



McKnight had great value in the fourth and anyone (that isn't retarded) knows that.

Of course some of those grades will eventually be wrong, but you can't write off a developmental project three games into his rookie season.

I'd feel more comfortable if a) you knew what you were talking about, b) didn't fail your TGG knowledge test, and c) showed us anything on this message board.

We EASILY could have acquired a 5th rd pick to get Connor. That was just an example, either way if McKnight doesn't work out we gave away leon and wasted a 4th rd pick.

Yes, if you didn't know McKnight was considered a great value in rd 4 you must be retarded:rofl2: He's not looking like such a steal so far, huh?

No one is writing him off yet but he hasn't shown a thing, usually rookies show flashes at some point.

Keep watchging college games and scouting Montana State, those of us that know about the NFL will watch the NFL and evaluate. I bet you were high on Gholston too? You are quite the draftnik:rolleyes:

[624]

We EASILY could have acquired a 5th rd pick to get Connor. That was just an example, either way if McKnight doesn't work out we gave away leon and wasted a 4th rd pick.

Yes, if you didn't know McKnight was considered a great value in rd 4 you must be retarded:rofl2: He's not looking like such a steal so far, huh?

No one is writing him off yet but he hasn't shown a thing, usually rookies show flashes at some point.

Keep watchging college games and scouting Montana State, those of us that know about the NFL will watch the NFL and evaluate. I bet you were high on Gholston too? You are quite the draftnik:rolleyes:

We would have had to give up something to get a 5th round pick.

What would you have given up?


Leon was gone after this season anyway, it was the right move to get some value for him. Especially since he would have had a minimal role on this team if he was still around for 2010.





Do you agree Greene was a steal in the 3rd round?

Did he do anything to show us that 3 weeks into last season?

[nyjunc]

No. Leon's value this year would have been as a kick returner. Nothing more. McKnight wasn't going to take that role from Brad Smith, who performed well last season and is doing so again this year. LT is here to take on the role that Leon otherwise would have: pass catcher and COP back. The fact that he's seized a much larger share should tell you about his value vs. Leon's as a RB.



His wife was running her mouth about how unappreciated he was on Twitter prior to the trade. Ditto for Keels. He was gone, gone, gone next season no matter what.



What if, what if, what if? He's had two KOR for touchdowns against shoddy special teams. As soon as we lose a game because of Brad Smith, we'll talk. Until then, it's completely hypothetical nonsense. Leon has done nothing to help the Seahawks on offense thus far, and that's behind worse backs than Greene and Tomlinson.

I'll play the what if game. What if Conner makes a huge block on ST to spring Smith for a TD? What if he steps full time into the FB role late in the season and manages to key the return to dominance for our run game and it carries us to the SB? See how easy it is?

He would have been worked back into the offsense just like he will in Seattle, he's a playmaker and too valuable to just return kicks.

LT is here to replace what we would have expected from Jones as the #2 back, Greene was sliding into the #1 back spot occupied by Jones a year ago.

Who cares what his wife was saying?

Ohh so now it's against shoddy STs, that's why he did. In weeks 1 and 2 SD's opponents had 9 returns for 171 yds and a 19 yd average which is outstanding coverage.

The difference is w/ my what if's Leon has helped us win a ton of games in the past so there is a track record. We know he's going to make big plays, he's done it every year.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

It's threads like these that make me want former Jets to fail. I was always a big Leon fan, and I'm glad he is having success, but for fucks sake, if you can't understand why he was traded then that's on you.

I'm hoping more than ever that McKnight becomes a beast now.

[nyjunc]

We would have had to give up something to get a 5th round pick.

What would you have given up?


Leon was gone after this season anyway, it was the right move to get some value for him. Especially since he would have had a minimal role on this team if he was still around for 2010.





Do you agree Greene was a steal in the 3rd round?

Did he do anything to show us that 3 weeks into last season?


We could have given up another pick or 2, we give away draft picks all the time anyway or again we could have used that 4th rd pick used on McKnight to maneuver to get a 5th rd pick. We easily could have gotten Connor even had we not traded Leon.


Greene showed flashes in preseason and in camp, he got dinged up and didn't play much until Leon went down but yes I expected him to be a contributer and he was. McKnight has shown us less than Gholston has.

[nyjunc]

It's threads like these that make me want former Jets to fail. I was always a big Leon fan, and I'm glad he is having success, but for fucks sake, if you can't understand why he was traded then that's on you.

I'm hoping more than ever that McKnight becomes a beast now.

I understand why he was traded but it turned out to be the wrong move. he was traded b/c we never thought he'd fully recover from the injury. I 100% guarantee you in meetings the brain trust wishes they never made that move after seeing how leon has come back.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

I understand why he was traded but it turned out to be the wrong move. he was traded b/c we never thought he'd fully recover from the injury. I 100% guarantee you in meetings the brain trust wishes they never made that move after seeing how leon has come back.

There was no way we were going to sign him to a long term deal. The bridge had been burned before he was traded. At best we'd have had him for 1 more year. Now we have a potential long term replacement in McKnight and a potential long term replacement for Richardson.

You're writing off McKnight already and you know that's foolish.

[........]

He would have been worked back into the offsense just like he will in Seattle, he's a playmaker and too valuable to just return kicks.

They've tried working him back in. Have you watched the Seahawks play this season? He hasn't looked good on his carries. I like Leon, so I've made a point of watching him. Like I said, he should get better than 2.5 YPC, but when? How much of a contribution can you possibly have expected from him?

LT is here to replace what we would have expected from Jones as the #2 back, Greene was sliding into the #1 back spot occupied by Jones a year ago.

Are you serious? LT replaces what we would have expected from...Jones? Since when is Thomas Jones a pass catching threat and a dominant outside rusher?

Who cares what his wife was saying?

Apparently he did, since he said yesterday that he was never going to stay in New York.

Ohh so now it's against shoddy STs, that's why he did. In weeks 1 and 2 SD's opponents had 9 returns for 171 yds and a 19 yd average which is outstanding coverage.

Again, did you watch? He did it against shoddy special teams. Leon did an excellent job, but the Chargers made terrible mistakes in coverage on both kick off returns. How they looked in the first two weeks is completely irrelevant to how they looked that night. We had excellent STs all last season and terrible STs against Miami when Ted Ginn returned 2. It happens, and it happened on Sunday.

The difference is w/ my what if's Leon has helped us win a ton of games in the past so there is a track record. We know he's going to make big plays, he's done it every year.

You're very big on using past performance to determine current success, aren't you? The Chargers must have been good against the Seahawks because they were good in Weeks 1 and 2. Leon must have helped us because he helped us in the past. I use my eyes. I watch the games. Leon was one of my favorite players while here, and you'll notice me congratulating him in the NFL forum during the game. That doesn't mean I have to close my eyes and ignore what I see. Nor should you.

[TommyGreen]

What exactly has Leon done this season other than those two KR touchdowns and that one TD during the game? He hasn't exactly been lighting it up. He's basically Chad Morton right now.

[nyjunc]

They've tried working him back in. Have you watched the Seahawks play this season? He hasn't looked good on his carries. I like Leon, so I've made a point of watching him. Like I said, he should get better than 2.5 YPC, but when? How much of a contribution can you possibly have expected from him?



Are you serious? LT replaces what we would have expected from...Jones? Since when is Thomas Jones a pass catching threat and a dominant outside rusher?



Apparently he did, since he said yesterday that he was never going to stay in New York.



Again, did you watch? He did it against shoddy special teams. Leon did an excellent job, but the Chargers made terrible mistakes in coverage on both kick off returns. How they looked in the first two weeks is completely irrelevant to how they looked that night. We had excellent STs all last season and terrible STs against Miami when Ted Ginn returned 2. It happens, and it happened on Sunday.



You're very big on using past performance to determine current success, aren't you? The Chargers must have been good against the Seahawks because they were good in Weeks 1 and 2. Leon must have helped us because he helped us in the past. I use my eyes. I watch the games. Leon was one of my favorite players while here, and you'll notice me congratulating him in the NFL forum during the game. That doesn't mean I have to close my eyes and ignore what I see. Nor should you.

It's going to take some time to really get back to normal.

I'm talking rushing wise w/ Jones, he was slated to get less carries than Greene. Things change but that was the thinking and that he could also catch balls out of the backfield but they would be wise to limit LT's touches based on all the touches he has in his career and leon could have hlped w/ that(McKnight was supposed to).

It's always easy to say things after the fact, he would have been back this year and been happy and contributing.

I saw both returns, the first one he just ran but the 2nd one 3-4 Chargers had a chance to tackle him and he made great moves to shake free. He did a great job.

You called SD's STs shoddy, you didn't say they were shoddy for that game alone and I pointed out the fact that they shut down opposing KRs the first 2 weeks.

I'm not ignoring anything, I know we could have kept him and we'd be even more dangerous. Don't confuse this w/ me whining we should have kept him. It's done, we cannot do anything about it. We made a mistake and let's move on. The last thing I want to discuss is Leon after our 2 big wins the last weeks but I'm not going to sit here and watch misinformation get spewed. It's ok to admit we made a mistake, it happens from time to time.

[........]

It's going to take some time to really get back to normal.

EXACTLY. And we haven't seen how long that's going to take. We also have no idea how long it'll take McKnight to be able to contribute a few carries. It's not like one side is certain and the other is a crapshoot. I happen to think Leon will improve as time goes on, but I certainly can't say that I know he will. And if he does, who's to say it happens this season? We may not have gotten anything out of him. Don't act like it's some certainty that he would have helped us in his one year.

I'm talking rushing wise w/ Jones, he was slated to get less carries than Greene. Things change but that was the thinking and that he could also catch balls out of the backfield but they would be wise to limit LT's touches based on all the touches he has in his career and leon could have hlped w/ that(McKnight was supposed to).

Leon's 2.5 YPC would have been a great asset to this team right now.

It's always easy to say things after the fact, he would have been back this year and been happy and contributing.

Based on what? I'm giving you an actual interview he conducted yesterday, you're giving me some assumption based on what you'd like to believe. Where are you getting the idea that he'd just automatically be happy?

I saw both returns, the first one he just ran but the 2nd one 3-4 Chargers had a chance to tackle him and he made great moves to shake free. He did a great job.

Yes. He did. And San Diego did a poor job. I watched almost the whole game and saw those returns several times.

You called SD's STs shoddy, you didn't say they were shoddy for that game alone and I pointed out the fact that they shut down opposing KRs the first 2 weeks.

LOL. I said he did it against shoddy STs, which he did. San Diego's STs were shoddy that day. I never said "against a team with shoddy STs". In fact, my original quote was "a team with coverage like San Diego's on Sunday". San Diego's coverage on Sunday was terrible. You go ahead and fight against whatever made up argument you'd like to, though.

I'm not ignoring anything, I know we could have kept him and we'd be even more dangerous. Don't confuse this w/ me whining we should have kept him. It's done, we cannot do anything about it. We made a mistake and let's move on. The last thing I want to discuss is Leon after our 2 big wins the last weeks but I'm not going to sit here and watch misinformation get spewed. It's ok to admit we made a mistake, it happens from time to time.

We'd be even more dangerous in your fantasy world in which Leon is a surefire return to his old self. We'd also be less dangerous and less competitive going forward with no Conner on our roster. You suggest that we could have gotten Conner another way by packaging draft picks. Which FUTURE draft picks would you have liked to see us give up in order to get him? A 5th this year is worth at least a 4th next year.

There was no mistake made.

[ukilledkenny]

Calling it a mistake after one good game as a returner is the issue some are having. If Leon breaks his leg again next week Tanny looks like a genius. Hell, if Leon returns 2 more kicks for TD's by the end of the season the worst it looks like is a wash because Brad Smith will probably return a few of his own sometime this year.

Nobody was bumping threads to call it the right move after two bad games. Nobody should be freaking out about one good game either.


P.S. I don't hope Leon gets hurt and I hope he has a good season and career. He just had no spot on this team and I don't get how people can't see that.

[J.E.T. Tone Holmes]

leon washington is 28 years old and an UFA after this season

also, rookie year leon wouldnt have gotten any burn on this current jets squad either ... especially the way he struggled early

[nyjunc]

EXACTLY. And we haven't seen how long that's going to take. We also have no idea how long it'll take McKnight to be able to contribute a few carries. It's not like one side is certain and the other is a crapshoot. I happen to think Leon will improve as time goes on, but I certainly can't say that I know he will. And if he does, who's to say it happens this season? We may not have gotten anything out of him. Don't act like it's some certainty that he would have helped us in his one year.



Leon's 2.5 YPC would have been a great asset to this team right now.



Based on what? I'm giving you an actual interview he conducted yesterday, you're giving me some assumption based on what you'd like to believe. Where are you getting the idea that he'd just automatically be happy?



Yes. He did. And San Diego did a poor job. I watched almost the whole game and saw those returns several times.



LOL. I said he did it against shoddy STs, which he did. San Diego's STs were shoddy that day. I never said "against a team with shoddy STs". In fact, my original quote was "a team with coverage like San Diego's on Sunday". San Diego's coverage on Sunday was terrible. You go ahead and fight against whatever made up argument you'd like to, though.



We'd be even more dangerous in your fantasy world in which Leon is a surefire return to his old self. We'd also be less dangerous and less competitive going forward with no Conner on our roster. You suggest that we could have gotten Conner another way by packaging draft picks. Which FUTURE draft picks would you have liked to see us give up in order to get him? A 5th this year is worth at least a 4th next year.

There was no mistake made.

I can say w/ confidence we'll sooner se Leon contributing on O than we will see McKnight.

Leon has barely touched the ball so his YPC doesn't disturb me as much as say Shonn Greene and his 3.5 YPC.

That's great that he is saying that now, it's easy to say now.


I thought you meant SD's STs were shoddy in general up to that point.

Actually your quote was "He's had two KOR for touchdowns against shoddy special teams"(post #231)


Again, you are acting like we couldn't get Connor w/o trading Leon which is 100% incorrect.

[Miamipuck]

EXACTLY. And we haven't seen how long that's going to take. We also have no idea how long it'll take McKnight to be able to contribute a few carries. It's not like one side is certain and the other is a crapshoot. I happen to think Leon will improve as time goes on, but I certainly can't say that I know he will. And if he does, who's to say it happens this season? We may not have gotten anything out of him. Don't act like it's some certainty that he would have helped us in his one year.



Leon's 2.5 YPC would have been a great asset to this team right now.



Based on what? I'm giving you an actual interview he conducted yesterday, you're giving me some assumption based on what you'd like to believe. Where are you getting the idea that he'd just automatically be happy?



Yes. He did. And San Diego did a poor job. I watched almost the whole game and saw those returns several times.



LOL. I said he did it against shoddy STs, which he did. San Diego's STs were shoddy that day. I never said "against a team with shoddy STs". In fact, my original quote was "a team with coverage like San Diego's on Sunday". San Diego's coverage on Sunday was terrible. You go ahead and fight against whatever made up argument you'd like to, though.


FYI................SD's special teams have not been good at all this year..... look what McCluster did to them in week 1.

[J.E.T. Tone Holmes]

I can say w/ confidence we'll sooner se Leon contributing on O than we will see McKnight.

Leon has barely touched the ball so his YPC doesn't disturb me as much as say Shonn Greene and his 3.5 YPC.

That's great that he is saying that now, it's easy to say now.


I thought you meant SD's STs were shoddy in general up to that point.

Actually your quote was "He's had two KOR for touchdowns against shoddy special teams"(post #231)


Again, you are acting like we couldn't get Connor w/o trading Leon which is 100% incorrect.

the fact that he cant get carries in one of the weakest backfields in the league doesnt concern you? then you shouldnt be concerned at all the mcknight cant get carries on this team

[xjets2002x]

I love Leon Washington, I know him personally, and he's a great guy and was a great player, but he has a metal rod in his leg, is 28 years old, and was seeking a multi-year extension. His value is as a low risk, high reward pickup for a team like Seattle, not as a long term financial commitment for a contender. I wish him all the best.

Joe McKnight has all the makings of a turd. He comes off like a spoiled brat, or a dullard, maybe both. That said, you never know. You can't write a guy off right away. Irving Fryar and Cris Carter were both considered busts at one point and both had long, successful careers. Ditto Thomas Jones.

I would have liked to see the Jets retain Danny Woodhead, but there are lots of guys on other teams practice squads who can carry the rock.

-X-

[nyjunc]

FYI................SD's special teams have not been good at all this year..... look what McCluster did to them in week 1.

That was on PRs not KRs.

the fact that he cant get carries in one of the weakest backfields in the league doesnt concern you? then you shouldnt be concerned at all the mcknight cant get carries on this team

That backfield isn't weak at all and they are bringing him along slowly. he's already ahead of where he should have been at this point but they obviously want to limit his touches for now.