Pedro or Randy

[Pennythetowelboy]

If you had to pick one for October who ya got?

[3rdAnd15Draw]

I have to say Randy because as junc has so sagely pointed out on numerous occasions, Pedro isn't good in the postseason, except for when he is.

[Sundayjack]

I have to say Randy because as junc has so sagely pointed out on numerous occasions, Pedro isn't good in the postseason, except for when he is.:rofl2: :rofl2:

[MSUJet85]

A 43 year old pitcher or a 33 year old pitcher, both with injury problems, it is an easy choice

[MSUJet85]

I have to say Randy because as junc has so sagely pointed out on numerous occasions, Pedro isn't good in the postseason, except for when he is.
:rofl: :rofl:

[ButtleMan]

Wrong forum.

[Cakes]

Well, Johnson really sucked last year in the playoffs.

[nyjunc]

Anyone who picks pedro just hasn't paid attention.

[nyjunc]

Well, Johnson really sucked last year in the playoffs.

For some reason he sucks in the LDS but in the LCS and WS he has been great and his overall #s(including his poor LDS #s) are better than Pedro's and he has a WS MVP which pedro does not and never will.

[MSUJet85]

Anyone who picks pedro just hasn't paid attention.
A 43 year old pitcher who choked badly in the playoffs last year, who has back problems

[ShadeTree#55]

Never mind Pedro's WS ERA of 0.00

[nyjunc]

I have to say Randy because as junc has so sagely pointed out on numerous occasions, Pedro isn't good in the postseason, except for when he is.

He's only come through under real pressure ONCE and that was in the '99 LDS. Soin it all you want but he's not a pressure pitcher and he proved that once again down the stretch when he blew the 2 biggst Met games of the year while Randy was beating Boston every time he faced them and led us back to the playoffs.

[ShadeTree#55]

0.00 in 2004 WS.

Nevermind, that wasn't pressure.

[nyjunc]

A 43 year old pitcher who choked badly in the playoffs last year, who has back problems

Had a bad start but pitched well in relief, again for whatever reason he sucks in the LDS but is great beyond that.

Never mind Pedro's WS ERA of 0.00

There was no pressure in that game, SL didn't even show up. Derek Lowe shut out SL the next night- is he great?

[typeOnegative13NY]

Over the course of their careers,i'd go with Randy. If Randy does this year in PS as he did,last year,i'll pick Pedro.

[nyjunc]

0.00 in 2004 WS.

Nevermind, that wasn't pressure.

Pressure? No pressure was Game 3 against the Yanks in the '03 ALCS where he was getting beaten badly then ahd to throw at Garcia's head. pressure was Game 7 in '03 where Pedro blew a 3 run lead in the 8th. Pressure was the '04 ALCS where he ahd a 6.23 ERA. Pressure was last year starting the 2 most important Mets games of the year where he got shelled and took out of a potential playoff race. pressure is not being up 2-0 against a team that had given up. Just like Clemens didn't face real pressure beating Atl in the WS in '99.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

He's only come through under real pressure ONCE and that was in the '99 LDS. Soin it all you want but he's not a pressure pitcher and he proved that once again down the stretch when he blew the 2 biggst Met games of the year while Randy was beating Boston every time he faced them and led us back to the playoffs.

Pedro's postseason ERA is a hair higher then Randy's(3.40 to 3.28), yet Randy is sub .500 in the postseason with a 7-8 mark while Pedro is 6-2. Given where they both are in their respective careers, it's almost incomprehensible that you would pick Johnson. Not to mention that Randy has been flat out awful since 01 in the playoffs.

Obviously 01 was better then Pedro has ever performed in the playoffs, but we're talking about now, and Pedro will likely have a chance to shine in the postseason again while Randy is old and washed up.

[ShadeTree#55]

Pressure only applies to games he lost. Not ever then ones he won. I see.

And that wasn't pressure last year when Randy ate a fat dillsnick against the Halo's, right?

[nyjunc]

Pedro's postseason ERA is a hair higher then Randy's(3.40 to 3.28), yet Randy is sub .500 in the postseason with a 7-8 mark while Pedro is 6-2. Given where they both are in their respective careers, it's almost incomprehensible that you would pick Johnson. Not to mention that Randy has been flat out awful since 01 in the playoffs.

Randy has been the better postseason pitcher, randy dominated the best team of the last Century in both '95 and '01 while pedro was lit up against a worse Yankee team in '03 & '04. randy has a WS MVP, does Pedro?

[Sundayjack]

HAH!!!!

Excellent! I was hoping this would get going.

Who was the genius that started this thread. Without out it, it may have been WEEKS before we had a good scrum around here.

[nyjunc]

Pressure only applies to games he lost. Not ever then ones he won. I see.

And that wasn't pressure last year when Randy ate a fat dillsnick against the Halo's, right?

How did pedro do in the postseason last year?

Pedro pitched phenomenally against Cle in '99 and pitched well against us in game 2 in '04 but that's it for high pressure games postseason games for him(that he's won, he's lost or pitched poorly in numerous more).

[nyjunc]

HAH!!!!

Excellent! I was hoping this would get going.

Who was the genius that started this thread. Without out it, it may have been WEEKS before we had a good scrum around here.

I'm not ready for baseball yet w/ the way the Heels are playing.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Randy has been the better postseason pitcher, randy dominated the best team of the last Century in both '95 and '01 while pedro was lit up against a worse Yankee team in '03 & '04. randy has a WS MVP, does Pedro?

Once again, we're not discussing their postseason career. You'd have to give Randy an edge in that department for his performance in 01. We're talking about who you would rather have now starting a postseason game. Johnson has been in steep decline generally and laid 2 postseason eggs since 01. Picking him to start a playoff game over Pedro at this point would be quite foolish.

[ShadeTree#55]

best team of the last Century

The early 70's A's made a special comeback for 2 postseason?

[ShadeTree#55]

I'm not ready for baseball yet w/ the way the Heels are playing.
Or you see the writing on the wall.

[nyjunc]

Once again, we're not discussing their postseason career. You'd have to give Randy an edge in that department for his performance in 01. We're talking about who you would rather have now starting a postseason game. Johnson has been in steep decline generally and laid 2 postseason eggs since 01. Picking him to start a playoff game over Pedro at this point would be quite foolish.

Randy carried us to the playoffs last year while Pedro lai eggs in the 2 biggest starts of the season, ramndy stunk in his start but was great in relief and gave us a chance to win game 5 if we didn't have a ceratin choking "MVP". Both pitchers are in decline, one can't even win big reg season games so how can we expect him to win big postseason games?

[BIG COUNTRY]

If Randy pitches like he usually does then I vote Randy, however if Randy plays more like last year then I would have voted Pedro. Lets say the both of them at the best points in their career for 1 game, I go with Randy.

[nyjunc]

Or you see the writing on the wall.

What's that? Aniother Mets season starting w/ high hopes only to fade away by August?

[ShadeTree#55]

Junc a start in April counts as much as a start in September.

[ShadeTree#55]

What's that? Aniother Mets season starting w/ high hopes only to fade away by August?
I thought Pedro laid an egg in September?:beer:

[ShadeTree#55]

junc needs some spring training, this is too easy.

[nyjunc]

Junc a start in April counts as much as a start in September.

You keep telling yourself that and maybe you'll start to believe it. The pressure down the stretch is much greater than in April and you know that.

[Cakes]

Randy has been the better postseason pitcher, randy dominated the best team of the last Century in both '95 and '01 while pedro was lit up against a worse Yankee team in '03 & '04. randy has a WS MVP, does Pedro?


Two years ago, you had nothing good to say about Johnson.

[nyjunc]

I thought Pedro laid an egg in September?:beer:

You weren't truly in the race but the 2 pedro starts could have kept a flicker alive but he did what he usually does in big games.

[nyjunc]

Two years ago, you had nothing good to say about Johnson.

really? Are you sure about that? I have always feared him as a yankee fan so I don't know how I didn't have good things to say about him.

[ShadeTree#55]

Yanks have the market cornered on "Pressure" "Mystique" "Clutch" and every other thing you can't prove.

junc hearts the Easter bunny.

[MSUJet85]

Yanks have the market cornered on "Pressure" "Mystique" "Clutch" and every other thing you can't prove.

junc hearts the Easter bunny.
You forgot "aura" and yes junc hearts the Easter bunny

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Junc a start in April counts as much as a start in September.

This is what junc just doesn't get. Regular season is the regular season. Obviously postseason games have much more pressure and mean more then any regular season games, but a September loss isn't any more damaging in the standings then an April loss.

[nyjunc]

Yanks have the market cornered on "Pressure" "Mystique" "Clutch" and every other thing you can't prove.

junc hearts the Easter bunny.

Shade hearts not playing in October.

[Cakes]

Randy has been the better postseason pitcher, randy dominated the best team of the last Century in both '95 and '01 while pedro was lit up against a worse Yankee team in '03 & '04. randy has a WS MVP, does Pedro?


For argument's sake, Tom Brady goes and signs with the Jets in a few years.
This is what I'd expect from you:

Oh, that Tom Brady. What a fine performer. He dominated the good Herman Edwards Jets team. I never said anything at the time, but I was in love with Brady as a football player. He's the greatest QB of all-time and I'm glad the Jets got him.

[nyjunc]

This is what junc just doesn't get. Regular season is the regular season. Obviously postseason games have much more pressure and mean more then any regular season games, but a September loss isn't any more damaging in the standings then an April loss.

If you guys don't think there's more pressure in Sept than April then you are nuts. Sure they all count as 1 win but in April when yuo lsoe a game you don't see your season ending, a lsos in September and your season can be done.

[Cakes]

If you guys don't think there's more pressure in Sept than April then you are nuts. Sure they all count as 1 win but in April when yuo lsoe a game you don't see your season ending, a lsos in September and your season can be done.

Only if you're in a race. Most teams play pressure-free baseball in September.

[MSUJet85]

If you guys don't think there's more pressure in Sept than April then you are nuts. Sure they all count as 1 win but in April when yuo lsoe a game you don't see your season ending, a lsos in September and your season can be done.
And without that win in April, you aren't in the position to have pressure in September.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

And without that win in April, you aren't in the position to have pressure in September.

Exactly. For the record, Pedro posted a season low 2.25 ERA in the month of the September last year. But like I said, wins are wins and losses are losses. Tom Glavine was absolutely awful in the first half of the year, posting an ERA of almost 5, while after the AS break he had an ERA of 2.22. Great second half, still doesn't wipe out all the damage he did to the Mets playoff chances the first half of the season.

[nyjunc]

For argument's sake, Tom Brady goes and signs with the Jets in a few years.
This is what I'd expect from you:

Oh, that Tom Brady. What a fine performer. He dominated the good Herman Edwards Jets team. I never said anything at the time, but I was in love with Brady as a football player. He's the greatest QB of all-time and I'm glad the Jets got him.

You are just spouting off things you have no clue about. I never said anything bad about RJ as a pitcher, I hated how he dominated us but that's about it. As for Brady, I have said for years he is the best QB in football. You are just making stuff up and making yourself look silly in the process.

[wildthing2022000]

To answer the question I'd say Josh Beckett or Curt Schilling.

[nyjunc]

Exactly. For the record, Pedro posted a season low 2.25 ERA in the month of the September last year. But like I said, wins are wins and losses are losses. Tom Glavine was absolutely awful in the first half of the year, posting an ERA of almost 5, while after the AS break he had an ERA of 2.22. Great second half, still doesn't wipe out all the damage he did to the Mets playoff chances the first half of the season.

and he was awful in the 2 biggest games the Mets needed to get legitimately into the playoff race. After he lost the games it killed the spirit of the team and they sunk lower and lower.

And without that win in April, you aren't in the position to have pressure in September.

You can have a poor April and rebound, if you have a poor september you don't have a parachute anymore. There is no comparison btw the pressure of April & September.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

and he was awful in the 2 biggest games the Mets needed to get legitimately into the playoff race. After he lost the games it killed the spirit of the team and they sunk lower and lower.



You can have a poor April and rebound, if you have a poor september you don't have a parachute anymore. There is no comparison btw the pressure of April & September.

We're talking in circles here. Is there more "pressure" during a September game in a playoff race? Sure. In the overall picture of making the playoffs or missing the playoffs is any one game more important then another? Nope(unless you want to get into silly stuff like tiebreakers and the like, then obviously head to head games are more important).

[ShadeTree#55]

So what about the 55 Dodgers? The tore up April and built up a big enough cushion to withstand injuries and slumps later in the year.

If they didn't start hot, they never would have made it, and never would have won the WS.

Hate to bring facts into the argument, junc. I know your shaking off the rust and all.

[nyjunc]

We're talking in circles here. Is there more "pressure" during a September game in a playoff race? Sure. In the overall picture of making the playoffs or missing the playoffs is any one game more important then another? Nope(unless you want to get into silly stuff like tiebreakers and the like, then obviously head to head games are more important).

Why do you always harp on the Jets "backing into the playoffs" then? By your theory a game in Sept is just as meaningful as a game in Dec so what's the difference that we lost our last 2 in '04 when we won enough games we needed to win?

So what about the 55 Dodgers? The tore up April and built up a big enough cushion to withstand injuries and slumps later in the year.


When you build a big enough cushion ealry like the White Sox did last year that is one thing, not many teams build big enough cushions where they can slump in Sept. The norm is if you slump like the Sox did last Sept you don't play in October.

[ShadeTree#55]

The junc norm or real norm?

What would say about a team that went 5-15 in September?

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Why do you always harp on the Jets "backing into the playoffs" then? By your theory a game in Sept is just as meaningful as a game in Dec so what's the difference that we lost our last 2 in '04 when we won enough games we needed to win?


You can't compare football and baseball its totally different. History has shown us that even very good teams that slump going into the playoffs tend to have a quick exit. In baseball your chances are basically as good as that day's starting pitching matchup for you. Also they obviously play series in baseball as opposed to a 1 loss and you're done in football.

To clarify: Football is very much a team sport and its much more difficult for one player to get "hot" and carry a team on his own, while Baseball is more of an individual sport, especially in regards to pitching performance.

[Pennythetowelboy]

well so far Pedro is winning in blowout fashion. Sweet.

[ShadeTree#55]

He can even look into his own teams history and find many clear examples of the Skanks backing in after a poor September based on their strong start to the season.

[Cellar-door]

Pedro Martinez is and always has been a better pitcher than Johnson. Comparable post season ERAs, Pedro's being perhaps more impressive, coming in the AL, a much stronger league.

[MSUJet85]

and he was awful in the 2 biggest games the Mets needed to get legitimately into the playoff race. After he lost the games it killed the spirit of the team and they sunk lower and lower.



You can have a poor April and rebound, if you have a poor september you don't have a parachute anymore. There is no comparison btw the pressure of April & September.
Tell that to Chicago, with their great beginning months it was enough to sustain a bad September

[nyjunc]

He can even look into his own teams history and find many clear examples of the Skanks backing in after a poor September based on their strong start to the season.

Records in Sept/Oct(reg season oct games):

2005 CWS: 19-12
2004 Bos: 21-11
2003 Fla: 18-8
2002 Ana: 18-9
2001 Ari: 14-13
2000 NYY: 13-18
1999 NYY: 17-14
1998 NYY: 16-11
1997 Fla: 13-15
1996 NYY: 16-11
1995 Atl: 16-12

Only 2 of the past 11 Champions have had losing Septembers

[nyjunc]

Tell that to Chicago, with their great beginning months it was enough to sustain a bad September

They had a good Septmeber and finished great, their struggles occurred in August.

[Cellar-door]

Records in Sept/Oct(reg season oct games):

2005 CWS: 19-12
2004 Bos: 21-11
2003 Fla: 18-8
2002 Ana: 18-9
2001 Ari: 14-13
2000 NYY: 13-18
1999 NYY: 17-14
1998 NYY: 16-11
1997 Fla: 13-15
1996 NYY: 16-11
1995 Atl: 16-12

Only 2 of the past 11 Champions have had losing Septembers
only 4 or 5 had good sept though, most were just mediocre

[nyjunc]

only 4 or 5 had good sept though, most were just mediocre

Alot had things wrapped up and were playing younger guys the last week so it skewed the #s a bit but when there was a race all exept the '00 yankees were winning. The '00 Yankees had such a big lead and I still don't know what happened down the stretch but luckily they held on.

[Rextasy]

And baseball season has officially begun..

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Had a bad start but pitched well in relief, again for whatever reason he sucks in the LDS but is great beyond that.



There was no pressure in that game, SL didn't even show up. Derek Lowe shut out SL the next night- is he great?

Derek Lowe IS a great postseason pitcher. I think I might take him over either of them in the playoffs.

[FirstTimeCaller]

To answer the question I'd say Josh Beckett or Curt Schilling.


Josh Beckett and Curt Schilling will be lucky to get 165 IP this year.

[AMJets]

Josh Beckett and Curt Schilling will be lucky to get 165 IP this year.

Combined. :grin:

[daking231]

UNIT is the pick here..... the dude is a world series MVP.

[FirstTimeCaller]

You are just spouting off things you have no clue about. I never said anything bad about RJ as a pitcher, I hated how he dominated us but that's about it. As for Brady, I have said for years he is the best QB in football. You are just making stuff up and making yourself look silly in the process.


Good thing that server keeps going down... eh Mr. Easter Bunny? :wink:

[nyjunc]

Good thing that server keeps going down... eh Mr. Easter Bunny? :wink:

I always here you guys telling me things I've said but when we have archives and I asked you to find it miraculously you never could.

[Pennythetowelboy]

well i guess pedro won this battle.