Official 2009-2010 College Basketball Thread

[kbgreen]

I am very happy for a great former Heel- Antawn Jamison. he finally gets out of DC and now he has a great chance to win an NBA Title. One of my favorite Heels of all time.

Do you think he will fit with both Labron and Shaq? I am more of a wait and see about how this will work for Cleveland. They have the talent in spades to win I just think they may have an chemistry problem.

[nyjunc]

Do you think he will fit with both Labron and Shaq? I am more of a wait and see about how this will work for Cleveland. They have the talent in spades to win I just think they may have an chemistry problem.

I am biased but I think it's a better fit than Stoudemire b/c Antawn can play on the perimeter. I think he'll be great when they collpase on Lebron and Shaq.

[Jetfanmack]

Indiana says hello to Pitt.


Indiana, iowa and penn State are bad teams just like Depaul, Prov, Rutgers, SJU and ND. 3 bad for Big 10, 5 for BE. The Big 10 has as many good teams and less bad teams- it's more competitive top to botoom.

You rely too much on computer #s. Depaul is one of the worst programs in the sport, Michigan beat UConn.

The Big 10 has 2 elite teams(by elite I mean title contenders, i don't think there are any truly elite teams this year) in MSU and Purdue, the BE has 2 in 'Nova and SU.

OSU, Wisconsin and illinois are as good(if not better) as WVU, Pitt and GU.

You'll take the BE mid tier w/ UConn but again Michigan beat UConn.

SH has lost 9 of 13, they have one qaulity non conf win over Cornell.

UConn has the talent but has not played up to it. They have one wuality non conf win.

USF has zero quality non conf wins and lost to S. carolina and Central Michigan

Why would Minneosta be included and not Michigan?

minnesota has one quality non conf win over Butler. That's better than any non conf win besides UConn's over Texas.

Michigan beat UConn

Illinois beat Clemson and vandy, better than any non conf SH and USF have.



The 2 conferences are close, the point is people always overrate the BE for some reason. People act like the Big 10 sucks and the BE is the 1985 Big East. The BE and Big 10 are having good years, nothing more.

You use non-conference as the be-all, end-all, and ignore conference play.

Neither the BE or B10 is an elite conference, but given the college basketball landscape, the B12 and those two are the best conferences, and I'd say the BE is a notch ahead of the B10.

I can rank them using RPI or KenPom, or pretty much any objective statistic, and every one will show the BE better than the B10 and ACC.

I didn't include Michigan because they have zero chance of making the tournament with an RPI in the 100's. Then again, Minnesota has an RPI in the 80's, so both teams suck.

You compare Notre Dame (17-10, 6-8) to Indiana (9-16, 3-10), Iowa (9-18, 3-11), and Penn State (9-16, 1-12)? That's pathetic.

Those three teams are simply atrocious. And yes, I know Indiana beat Pitt...crazy things happen.

You should be comparing Rutgers (14-12, 4-9) and St. John's (14-11, 4-9) to Minnesota (14-10, 5-7) and Michigan (13-12, 6-7).

3 out of the 11 teams in the Big 10 don't even have 10 wins this season. That's pathetic. The Big East has two below .500 teams on the season, and I'd argue Providence is better than the bottom three because they played a slightly tougher schedule and did a little better with it, even though they suck, too.

DePaul vs those bottom three teams, take your pick, they all sucks. DePaul (at Northern Iowa) and Indiana (vs Pitt) have the best wins, but all three are abysmal.

[nyjunc]

You use non-conference as the be-all, end-all, and ignore conference play.

Neither the BE or B10 is an elite conference, but given the college basketball landscape, the B12 and those two are the best conferences, and I'd say the BE is a notch ahead of the B10.

I can rank them using RPI or KenPom, or pretty much any objective statistic, and every one will show the BE better than the B10 and ACC.

I didn't include Michigan because they have zero chance of making the tournament with an RPI in the 100's. Then again, Minnesota has an RPI in the 80's, so both teams suck.

You compare Notre Dame (17-10, 6-8) to Indiana (9-16, 3-10), Iowa (9-18, 3-11), and Penn State (9-16, 1-12)? That's pathetic.

Those three teams are simply atrocious. And yes, I know Indiana beat Pitt...crazy things happen.

You should be comparing Rutgers (14-12, 4-9) and St. John's (14-11, 4-9) to Minnesota (14-10, 5-7) and Michigan (13-12, 6-7).

3 out of the 11 teams in the Big 10 don't even have 10 wins this season. That's pathetic. The Big East has two below .500 teams on the season, and I'd argue Providence is better than the bottom three because they played a slightly tougher schedule and did a little better with it, even though they suck, too.

DePaul vs those bottom three teams, take your pick, they all sucks. DePaul (at Northern Iowa) and Indiana (vs Pitt) have the best wins, but all three are abysmal.

In conf play there will always be upsets as teams gear up for the big teams in their conf. i think it's more telling what happens in the non conf.

I agree w/ your 2nd paragraph w/ the exception of the BE being better but a good argument can be made on both sides. I think all 3 confs are very close.

The ACC is not in the discussion and I don't really care what rankings say. I have my own formula and I think it's better.

ND is a bad team, they have a few more wins b/c they beat more creampuffs. They got crushed by Northwestern, their best win was over a bad UCLA team at home in the non conf and in conf they beat an overrated WVU squad at home. They haven't done much. Any team that loses back to back games against SJU and SH is a bad team.

who cares about 10 wins? Those 3 have 9 wins and b/c they didn't play as many creampuffs as SJU, RU, prov,...

[Jetfanmack]

who cares about 10 wins? Those 3 have 9 wins and b/c they didn't play as many creampuffs as SJU, RU, prov,...

Rutgers's top 200 wins
Drexel
UMass
Princeton
Rider
St. Peter's
St. John's (top 100)
GTown (top 10)
Notre Dame (top 100)
DePaul

DePaul's top 200 wins
Northern Iowa (top 25)
Marquette (top 100)
St. Joe's
Detroit
*I admit, both St. Joe's and Detroit are barely top 200, but that's where I drew the line. The other two wins are both legit.

Providence's top 200 wins
Vermont
George Washington
St. John's (top 100)
Rutgers
DePaul
UConn (top 50)

St. John's top 200 wins
St. Bonaventure
Siena (top 50)
Temple (top 25)
Stony Brook
Georgia (top 100)
Hofstra
Louisville (top 50)
Cincinnati (top 50)
Depaul
Notre Dame (top 100)

Iowa's top 200 wins
Drake
Bowling Green
Northwestern (top 100)

Indiana's top 200 wins
Pitt (top 25)
Michigan
Minnesota (top 100)

Penn St's top 200 wins
Robert Morris
Davidson
Virginia (top 100)
Northwestern (top 100)

Michigan's top 200 wins
Creighton
Detroit
Ohio St (top 50)
UConn (top 50)
Minnesota (top 100)
Iowa
Iowa

The bottom four in the Big East have a combined 29 wins against top 200 teams and 13 vs top 100. The bottom four in the Big 10 have 17 and 8 top 100 wins.

Obviously, the RPI is a flawed tool, but it is an objective way of judging how well teams have done. And it shows that the worst four teams in the Big East are better than the worst four in the Big 10. And in a conference of 11 teams, 3 awful teams makes it much easier for the top teams.

[nyjunc]

Rutgers's top 200 wins
Drexel
UMass
Princeton
Rider
St. Peter's
St. John's (top 100)
GTown (top 10)
Notre Dame (top 100)
DePaul

DePaul's top 200 wins
Northern Iowa (top 25)
Marquette (top 100)
St. Joe's
Detroit
*I admit, both St. Joe's and Detroit are barely top 200, but that's where I drew the line. The other two wins are both legit.

Providence's top 200 wins
Vermont
George Washington
St. John's (top 100)
Rutgers
DePaul
UConn (top 50)

St. John's top 200 wins
St. Bonaventure
Siena (top 50)
Temple (top 25)
Stony Brook
Georgia (top 100)
Hofstra
Louisville (top 50)
Cincinnati (top 50)
Depaul
Notre Dame (top 100)

Iowa's top 200 wins
Drake
Bowling Green
Northwestern (top 100)

Indiana's top 200 wins
Pitt (top 25)
Michigan
Minnesota (top 100)

Penn St's top 200 wins
Robert Morris
Davidson
Virginia (top 100)
Northwestern (top 100)

Michigan's top 200 wins
Creighton
Detroit
Ohio St (top 50)
UConn (top 50)
Minnesota (top 100)
Iowa
Iowa

The bottom four in the Big East have a combined 29 wins against top 200 teams and 13 vs top 100. The bottom four in the Big 10 have 17 and 8 top 100 wins.

Obviously, the RPI is a flawed tool, but it is an objective way of judging how well teams have done. And it shows that the worst four teams in the Big East are better than the worst four in the Big 10. And in a conference of 11 teams, 3 awful teams makes it much easier for the top teams.

Again, RPI means very little. a bad team is a bad team whether they are 100 in the RPI or 200. There's not a quality team on that list for RU in the non conf and when they have SJU and ND as top 100 that tells us all we need to know about those rankings.

Depaul- not a single quality non conf win

Prov- same thing

SJU has Temple



These are all bad teams but the Big 10s bad teams beat some quality teams while only SJU has a quality win from the BE bad teams.

Seeing ND top 100, SJU top 100, Marquette top 100, UL top 50, Minny top 100 tells us all we need to know about those rankings. They are used as a tool for the selction committee, they are not a true reflection of the strength of the teams.

[Jetfanmack]

DePaul beat Northern Iowa, who is 23-3 right now and is a near lock to get into the tournament on a neutral court.

[nyjunc]

DePaul beat Northern Iowa, who is 23-3 right now and is a near lock to get into the tournament on a neutral court.

Carolina beat a bunch of toruney teams too, there's a difference btw a tourney team and one that can do something in the Tourney. UNI beat no one in non-conf, that's a good win for depaul but b/c UNI has a nice record playing no one doesn't mean they are a big time team.

[Italian Seafood]

Nice win for Seton Hall last night, in a place they usually lose and without Hazell for most of the game. :up:

[Yisman]

Syracuse absolutely crushing Georgetown. Big road win.

[SyracuseJet]

Syracuse absolutely crushing Georgetown. Big road win.

This game is phenominal.

[Theo Huxtable]

This game is phenominal.

I'm sure you're not saying that now. hahaha.

[SyracuseJet]

I'm sure you're not saying that now. hahaha.

No sir. No I'm not.

[Yisman]

they somehow blew a huge lead. It was 20+ points with about 9 to go. Now it's down to 4. Just tuned in.

[SyracuseJet]

21 point lead....and they threw in the towel

[SyracuseJet]

I can't wait for that sorry sack of shit Onuaku to die or graduate. Fucking garbage....

[Jetfanmack]

Wow, I gave up on this game when it was 60-37. Pull it out, Hoyas! Monroe is a beast, just needs to make some FT's.

That POS Clark on GTown goes 6-7 from three against Nova, and he can't hit the broad side of the barn tonight.

[SyracuseJet]

THink 'Cuse saved it.

[Jetfanmack]

Very nice win for you guys. Now it will take a miracle for Nova to win the BE regular season title as Cuse's schedule is favorable here on out.

[SyracuseJet]

Very nice win for you guys. Now it will take a miracle for Nova to win the BE regular season title as Cuse's schedule is favorable here on out.

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[Theo Huxtable]

Finally, the Gators win a game they're supposed to. Why they were on ESPN instead of switching the games with ESPN 2 is beyond me, but at least I got to watch.

[Yisman]

yeah, I thought the Syracuse game should've been on ESPN as well. That was strange.

[kbgreen]

Mann SU really made us sweat that one out! They still have not lost to a ranked team. But Wes johnson disapeared in the second half and we really needed him tonight.

[kbgreen]

I can't wait for that sorry sack of shit Onuaku to die or graduate. Fucking garbage....

Actually, I like him better than most of the bigs we have had. He makes his layups and is a beast in the middle. nobody bodies him out of the way. Remember Craig forth and j McNeil neither of them made their layups it used to drive me mad!

The one big thing with AO is he can't make a free throw to save his life.

[Yisman]

The one big thing with AO is he can't make a free throw to save his life.

Every year there are a bunch of guys like that in college, who shoot under 45% from the free throw line.

I remember Joey Dorsey. That was an adventure every time he made it to the line.

Most of those guys aren't good enough otherwise to do much in the NBA.

Ben Wallace and Shaq are the current examples, but Chris Dudley really sucked when he played. I remember him on the Knicks.

[Theo Huxtable]

The "Number 9" team in the nation just lost to Loyola Marymount by 8 points...

Just another example of Gonzaga not being that good of a team...

[SyracuseJet]

Actually, I like him better than most of the bigs we have had. He makes his layups and is a beast in the middle. nobody bodies him out of the way. Remember Craig forth and j McNeil neither of them made their layups it used to drive me mad!

The one big thing with AO is he can't make a free throw to save his life.

I'd rather have Forth.

I can't wait till next year when Fabricio Melo and Baye Moussa Keita are here. What an upgrade.

[Jetfanmack]

Come on, Onuaku is better than Forth.

[nyjunc]

yeah, I thought the Syracuse game should've been on ESPN as well. That was strange.

They used to put big games on ESPN2 at times to bring attention to the ESPN2 and get people to complain to their cable systems to get it but I think pretty much everyione gets it now. The SEC just signed a huge deal w/ ESPN and I would guess that had something to do w/ it.




Great job by SU, GU is tough at home and they were able to hold on for the huge win. I'm looking forward to that 'Nova-SU game.

The "Number 9" team in the nation just lost to Loyola Marymount by 8 points...

Just another example of Gonzaga not being that good of a team...

Didn't the #3 team just get beat up at home by an unranked team? Upsets in conference play happen all the time.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

They used to put big games on ESPN2 at times to bring attention to the ESPN2 and get people to complain to their cable systems to get it but I think pretty much everyione gets it now. The SEC just signed a huge deal w/ ESPN and I would guess that had something to do w/ it.




Great job by SU, GU is tough at home and they were able to hold on for the huge win. I'm looking forward to that 'Nova-SU game.



Didn't the #3 team just get beat up at home by an unranked team? Upsets in conference play happen all the time.

True enough, but I don't think you can compare UConn to Loyola Marymount.

[kbgreen]

I'd rather have Forth.

I can't wait till next year when Fabricio Melo and Baye Moussa Keita are here. What an upgrade.

Forth was on the national champ team so he will forever be dear to me but in no way is he better than AO. Well, maybe at the free throw line but that is it. AO is a better defender, scorer, passer, and team leader than forth was.

AS for next year Fab Melo and Keita look like they will need time to develop. I caught some of a Fab Melo game a couple of weeks ago and he has talent but is raw. Riley is more likely to be the starter at least early in the year. He has shown some skills at least defensively!

[Barry the Baptist]

Didn't the #3 team just get beat up at home by an unranked team? Upsets in conference play happen all the time.


Loyola Marymount is a really really really bad loss.

We've essentially played ourselves out of an auto bid losing our 3rd straight and being swept by Utah. Better plan on winning the conference tourney.

[GQMartin]

I've gone on the record, in this thread last year or so, saying foul trouble has stunted Onuaku's growth (or something to that effect).

[Theo Huxtable]

Didn't the #3 team just get beat up at home by an unranked team? Upsets in conference play happen all the time.

Please never compare Loyola Marymount to Conneticut again.
I know what you're trying to say but...no. just no.

[nyjunc]

True enough, but I don't think you can compare UConn to Loyola Marymount.

Obviously UConn is alot better but upsets do happen in conf games from time to time. Carolina '09 was probably the best team in 15 years and they lost to BC at home after BC had just lost to Harvard. It happens. I don't think Gonzaga is good this year, I think they are ranked high b/c there really aren't many good teams. if this was a strong year and they were ranked that high I'd have a problem.

Please never compare Loyola Marymount to Conneticut again.
I know what you're trying to say but...no. just no.

:lol::up:



The Heels have one last chance in the reg season to get things going. I think they need to win 4 of 5 so today is critical at BC in a game they should be able to win. They get a boost w/ Tyler Zeller returning so hopefully they start a win streak and at least give me some hope for this year.

[Murrell2878]

Purdue down to Illinois early

[nyjunc]

Oh well, so much for starting a streak against BC. The heels actually played as well as I have seen them play in a long time but their awful FT shooting cost them in a close game.

They pretty much have to run the reg season tbale which incluides road games at Wake and Duke so that's not happening. it will be up to them getting hot and winning the ACC Tourney which could happen but obviously likely won't.

[Yisman]

We've essentially played ourselves out of an auto bid losing our 3rd straight and being swept by Utah. Better plan on winning the conference tourney.

You mean at large bid? The conference tournament would be the auto bid.

BYU keeps rolling.

They host New Mexico on Saturday, in a game that will probably decide the regular season title.

BYU barely lost at New Mexico and now gets them at home.

[Jaquifus]

UNC has a great shot at the NIT if they can go 2-2 to finish the year.

[kbgreen]

UNC has a great shot at the NIT if they can go 2-2 to finish the year.

Ouch! Not exactly what they were hoping at the beginning of the season!

[Jetfanmack]

Tough loss at Pitt today. They're just a tough, well-coached team, and they completely kept us out of rhythm. Next week's game at Cuse is pretty much a must win to get a 1 seed.

[nyjunc]

Ouch! Not exactly what they were hoping at the beginning of the season!

Unfortunately he's right. The heels have no one to blame but themselves. They have had a ton of injury problems BUT they still should have had enough to be in the top half of the ACC. Roy did a terrible job this year, I expect things will be back to normal next year w/ all the young guys getting experience this year and they class they have coming in but I guess nothing is a sure thing anymore?

[nyjetsrule]

Tough loss at Pitt today. They're just a tough, well-coached team, and they completely kept us out of rhythm. Next week's game at Cuse is pretty much a must win to get a 1 seed.

I don't think it is for Nova. Losing to Cuse won't hurt them too badly. If they turn around and win the big East tourney they will be back in contention for the #1.

that said it should be incredibly hard for Nova to walk into the Carrier dome packed to the max and walk out with a win... Either way it should be a fantastic game.

[nyjunc]

It's still early to talk 1 seeds, alot can happen btw now and 3 weeks from yesterday. Who would have though UL would get a 1 seed let alone 1 overall at this time a year ago? I think the top 2 are set w/ UK and KU, the other 2 will likely come from SU, 'Nova and Purdue w/ the chance that duke could sneak in there assuming they win the ACC Tourney after winning the reg season.

[kbgreen]

The new AP poll is out. 5 Big East teams in the top 12. That seems a little high to me but- WOW! you do not see that very often!

[kbgreen]

Tough loss at Pitt today. They're just a tough, well-coached team, and they completely kept us out of rhythm. Next week's game at Cuse is pretty much a must win to get a 1 seed.

I know how you feel they did the same to SU back in January! They are tough and well coached!

[MParty7441]

For anyone that's wondering and I'm sure you all are, the St.Johns women's team, in the 06-07 season was 8-20 (4-12). Today they are ranked 18th in the country. The Mens team that same year was 16-14 (7-9) and is currently 13th in the BE.

[nyjunc]

The new AP poll is out. 5 Big East teams in the top 12. That seems a little high to me but- WOW! you do not see that very often!

It's a complete joke, there are two legit top 12 teams in the BE- MAYBE WVU deserves to be there. GU lost at home and only drops one spot(they have lost 3 of 5 w/ 2 losses to USF and RU and they only have dropped 5 spots in the past 3 weeks), Pitt had a nice week but they did beat a struggling Nova team at home and they jump 7 spots? come on. Only really WVU deserves to be there but they are there mostly b/c of their soft sched.

[nyjetsrule]

It's a complete joke, there are two legit top 12 teams in the BE- MAYBE WVU deserves to be there. GU lost at home and only drops one spot(they have lost 3 of 5 w/ 2 losses to USF and RU and they only have dropped 5 spots in the past 3 weeks), Pitt had a nice week but they did beat a struggling Nova team at home and they jump 7 spots? come on. Only really WVU deserves to be there but they are there mostly b/c of their soft sched.

Well Junc, if you disagree so strongly with the current poll, who makes up your top 15?

[nyjunc]

Well Junc, if you disagree so strongly with the current poll, who makes up your top 15?

I don't know, I just know GU and Pitt don't belong.

[HackettStillSux]

GU lost at home and only drops one spot(they have lost 3 of 5 w/ 2 losses to USF and RU and they only have dropped 5 spots in the past 3 weeks),

What do you expect? It's not like they lost to Loyola-Marymount. Now, a loss like THAT should drop a team out of the top 25.

Oh.... wait...

[nyjunc]

What do you expect? It's not like they lost to Loyola-Marymount. Now, a loss like THAT should drop a team out of the top 25.

Oh.... wait...

LMU beat Notre Dame at ND this year, the great WVU team couldn't even do that.

[Antoni]

It's a complete joke, there are two legit top 12 teams in the BE- MAYBE WVU deserves to be there. GU lost at home and only drops one spot(they have lost 3 of 5 w/ 2 losses to USF and RU and they only have dropped 5 spots in the past 3 weeks), Pitt had a nice week but they did beat a struggling Nova team at home and they jump 7 spots? come on. Only really WVU deserves to be there but they are there mostly b/c of their soft sched.

What's so soft about WVU's schedule?

[nyjunc]

What's so soft about WVU's schedule?


They played 2 quality teams in the non-conf. They got hammered by Purdue and held on in a close W over OSU. Other than that they won by 2 at Cleveland State and in conf they lost to ND and their only win over a ranked BE team came at home vs. Pitt. They are 10-4 in the BE w/ 9 of the wins coming against:

SH twice
Marq
RU
USF
Depaul
UL
SJ
Prov

[Antoni]

They played 2 quality teams in the non-conf. They got hammered by Purdue and held on in a close W over OSU. Other than that they won by 2 at Cleveland State and in conf they lost to ND and their only win over a ranked BE team came at home vs. Pitt. They are 10-4 in the BE w/ 9 of the wins coming against:

SH twice
Marq
RU
USF
Depaul
UL
SJ
Prov

With all that said though their opponents have so far combined for the #1 opponent offensive efficiency and the #10 defensive efficiency, and the #1 pythag as well. Their non-conf opponent pythag is higher than any other BE team, or any B10 team for that matter. Connecticut would be next, with really 3 teams pulling all the weight(Duke, Texas, and UK), but a lot of really atrocious teams in there as well. If WVU's had it easy who in your opinion had a much tougher sched?

[HackettStillSux]

LMU beat Notre Dame at ND this year, the great WVU team couldn't even do that.

Yet WVU dropped as many spots losing to ND than Gonzaga did for losing to Loyola.

[nyjunc]

With all that said though their opponents have so far combined for the #1 opponent offensive efficiency and the #10 defensive efficiency, and the #1 pythag as well. Their non-conf opponent pythag is higher than any other BE team, or any B10 team for that matter. Connecticut would be next, with really 3 teams pulling all the weight(Duke, Texas, and UK), but a lot of really atrocious teams in there as well. If WVU's had it easy who in your opinion had a much tougher sched?

I don't care what the stats say, they played an incredibl;y weak non conf sched and split against the 2 good teams they played getting blown out by one and winning a close one at home. They have beaten up on the bottom half of the BE w/ only one win against a ranked BE team- again at home.

We can go through all the scheds and pick out teams that have had it tougher, we wouldn't have to search too far. They have played an easy sched.

Yet WVU dropped as many spots losing to ND than Gonzaga did for losing to Loyola.

LMU BEAT ND at ND.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

This obsession with the out of conference schedule doesn't make sense. As it stands now, there are 5 Big East teams ranked, and all are in the top 12. There is 1 ACC team ranked, and that's Duke. So why would a Big East team schedule a tough non-conference schedule when their in-conference schedule is so much tougher?

[nyjunc]

This obsession with the out of conference schedule doesn't make sense. As it stands now, there are 5 Big East teams ranked, and all are in the top 12. There is 1 ACC team ranked, and that's Duke. So why would a Big East team schedule a tough non-conference schedule when their in-conference schedule is so much tougher?

it's BS that there are 5 top 12 teams, in reality you have 2 legit top 12 teams but a team like WVU gets to beat up on SH, USF, Depaul, SJU, etc... and their record looks great so they are ranked high.

Throughout history the ACC has had the toughest conf and yet UNC has always faced tough non conf scheds so I don't buy that weak excuse. There was a time w/ 9 teams(not 16) that the ACC had 5 top 12 teams in 1995 which meant for UNC who was top 5 they had to play 8 other games at least against top 12 teams in conf play yet they played quality non conf opponents.

[Theo Huxtable]

Again, college basketball rankings aren't really that important at all. All these teams you're talking about are probably going to get a 3 or 4 seed no matter where they're ranked within 8-20 which doesn't make that huge of a difference in the tourny...which is all that matters.

[Yisman]

The Big East will likely wind up with four teams that are a four seed or better.

[kbgreen]

it's BS that there are 5 top 12 teams, in reality you have 2 legit top 12 teams but a team like WVU gets to beat up on SH, USF, Depaul, SJU, etc... and their record looks great so they are ranked high.

Throughout history the ACC has had the toughest conf and yet UNC has always faced tough non conf scheds so I don't buy that weak excuse. There was a time w/ 9 teams(not 16) that the ACC had 5 top 12 teams in 1995 which meant for UNC who was top 5 they had to play 8 other games at least against top 12 teams in conf play yet they played quality non conf opponents.

This is an off year in the NCAA's there really are only 4 or 5 really good teams. Normally there is a second tier that is pretty tough but I don't think so this year. I still think it will come down to SU, Nova, UK, Kansas and maybe Purdue (I think they may be better than I thought earlier). So the top 12 has teams that may not be there in other years but are this year.

But even you have to agree that the Big East may just be better than the ACC this year! There is only 1 top twenty team in the ACC verses 5 for the BE. I am not going to try to justify top 12 because I don't know if they are all that good. But they have all earned a spot in the top 20 so far this year.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

it's BS that there are 5 top 12 teams, in reality you have 2 legit top 12 teams but a team like WVU gets to beat up on SH, USF, Depaul, SJU, etc... and their record looks great so they are ranked high.

Throughout history the ACC has had the toughest conf and yet UNC has always faced tough non conf scheds so I don't buy that weak excuse. There was a time w/ 9 teams(not 16) that the ACC had 5 top 12 teams in 1995 which meant for UNC who was top 5 they had to play 8 other games at least against top 12 teams in conf play yet they played quality non conf opponents.


That's all well and good that the ACC always plays a tough schedule. Where does it get them? I'll maintain that it doesn't mean jack unless you win them. Anyone can play a tough schedule in November and December, but when it comes down to it, other then UNC, the ACC has been awful come March. When was the last ACC team besides UNC to make an Elite 8?

[nyjetsrule]

it's BS that there are 5 top 12 teams, in reality you have 2 legit top 12 teams but a team like WVU gets to beat up on SH, USF, Depaul, SJU, etc... and their record looks great so they are ranked high.

Throughout history the ACC has had the toughest conf and yet UNC has always faced tough non conf scheds so I don't buy that weak excuse. There was a time w/ 9 teams(not 16) that the ACC had 5 top 12 teams in 1995 which meant for UNC who was top 5 they had to play 8 other games at least against top 12 teams in conf play yet they played quality non conf opponents.

1995 was then this is now. Basketball teams are starting to go the way of college football, try and avoid playing anybody else whos really good until you are absolutely forced to.

It's better for the college and the program when they go 10-2 beating up on 8 terrible teams and going 2-2 with the real competition that they face.

Why go out of your way to make it harder on yourself?

I personally can't stand that mentality for anything. If you are the best team in the country you can go on the road to hostile territory and win games and prove it. Especially in College basketball. If you play the most difficult schedule in the country your team is battle tested and ready to go come tournament time, thats far more benificial than playing all cupcakes and being soft come tournament time.

I hate it, but i understand why the out of conference scheduling has gotten so lackluster for the most part.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

1995 was then this is now. Basketball teams are starting to go the way of college football, try and avoid playing anybody else whos really good until you are absolutely forced to.

It's better for the college and the program when they go 10-2 beating up on 8 terrible teams and going 2-2 with the real competition that they face.

Why go out of your way to make it harder on yourself?

I personally can't stand that mentality for anything. If you are the best team in the country you can go on the road to hostile territory and win games and prove it. Especially in College basketball. If you play the most difficult schedule in the country your team is battle tested and ready to go come tournament time, thats far more benificial than playing all cupcakes and being soft come tournament time.

I hate it, but i understand why the out of conference scheduling has gotten so lackluster for the most part.



I'll reiterate what I said before, what has that gotten the ACC though? If they consistently play a tougher schedule, wouldn't they have fared better in March then they have lately?

[kbgreen]

The Big East will likely wind up with four teams that are a four seed or better.

According to Joe Lunardi in bracketology they may have 5

[nyjunc]

This is an off year in the NCAA's there really are only 4 or 5 really good teams. Normally there is a second tier that is pretty tough but I don't think so this year. I still think it will come down to SU, Nova, UK, Kansas and maybe Purdue (I think they may be better than I thought earlier). So the top 12 has teams that may not be there in other years but are this year.

But even you have to agree that the Big East may just be better than the ACC this year! There is only 1 top twenty team in the ACC verses 5 for the BE. I am not going to try to justify top 12 because I don't know if they are all that good. But they have all earned a spot in the top 20 so far this year.

The BE is better than the ACC this year, I never argued that. The ACC will have a higher % of tourney bound teams but w/ only one ranked team it would be hard to argue the ACC is better.

In a normal year Pitt and GU would not be top 20, WVU would be around 15-20.

That's all well and good that the ACC always plays a tough schedule. Where does it get them? I'll maintain that it doesn't mean jack unless you win them. Anyone can play a tough schedule in November and December, but when it comes down to it, other then UNC, the ACC has been awful come March. When was the last ACC team besides UNC to make an Elite 8?

Where does it get them? You do realize that in the past 20 years the BE has sent only 7 teams to the FF, right? You do realize that 3 ACC teams won titles in the 00s compared to 2 for the BE, right? You also realize that in the 00s the ACC sent 4 different teams to the FF an the BE sent 4 different teams to the FF but the BE has more teams.

The ACC has struggled in recent years as has the BE outside of last year. The last non-UNC ACC team to make the elite 8 was duke in '04. The conf has taken a hit since expansion.

1995 was then this is now. Basketball teams are starting to go the way of college football, try and avoid playing anybody else whos really good until you are absolutely forced to.

It's better for the college and the program when they go 10-2 beating up on 8 terrible teams and going 2-2 with the real competition that they face.

Why go out of your way to make it harder on yourself?

I personally can't stand that mentality for anything. If you are the best team in the country you can go on the road to hostile territory and win games and prove it. Especially in College basketball. If you play the most difficult schedule in the country your team is battle tested and ready to go come tournament time, thats far more benificial than playing all cupcakes and being soft come tournament time.

I hate it, but i understand why the out of conference scheduling has gotten so lackluster for the most part.

That's just not true. Most of the big programs at least try to schedule tough opponents in non conf and w/ all the preseason tourneys we usually get a ton of great non conf matchups in nov and Dec.

I'll reiterate what I said before, what has that gotten the ACC though? If they consistently play a tougher schedule, wouldn't they have fared better in March then they have lately?

As a whole I don't know that the ACC teams have scheudled tough OOC. I know duke hasn't and i believe that is a major reason why they have struggled so much post 1994.

[Theo Huxtable]

That's all well and good that the ACC always plays a tough schedule. Where does it get them? I'll maintain that it doesn't mean jack unless you win them. Anyone can play a tough schedule in November and December, but when it comes down to it, other then UNC, the ACC has been awful come March. When was the last ACC team besides UNC to make an Elite 8?

2004, Georgia Tech and Duke made it to the Final Four, and GT made it to the championship game, but lost.
Still a long long time.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

The BE is better than the ACC this year, I never argued that. The ACC will have a higher % of tourney bound teams but w/ only one ranked team it would be hard to argue the ACC is better.

In a normal year Pitt and GU would not be top 20, WVU would be around 15-20.



Where does it get them? You do realize that in the past 20 years the BE has sent only 7 teams to the FF, right? You do realize that 3 ACC teams won titles in the 00s compared to 2 for the BE, right? You also realize that in the 00s the ACC sent 4 different teams to the FF an the BE sent 4 different teams to the FF but the BE has more teams.

The ACC has struggled in recent years as has the BE outside of last year. The last non-UNC ACC team to make the elite 8 was duke in '04. The conf has taken a hit since expansion.



That's just not true. Most of the big programs at least try to schedule tough opponents in non conf and w/ all the preseason tourneys we usually get a ton of great non conf matchups in nov and Dec.



As a whole I don't know that the ACC teams have scheudled tough OOC. I know duke hasn't and i believe that is a major reason why they have struggled so much post 1994.




In the last 5 years, the ACC has had 3 Final 4 appearances, all by UNC. In that same span, the Big East has also had 3 Final 4 appearances, but by 3 separate teams. UNC is a phenomenal program, but the ACC as a whole in the last 5 years has been UNC and a whole lot of overrated basketball teams.

[Yisman]

The ACC has struggled in recent years as has the BE outside of last year. The last non-UNC ACC team to make the elite 8 was duke in '04. The conf has taken a hit since expansion.




And how many Elite Eight teams has the Big East had in that time span?

[Theo Huxtable]

and a whole lot of overrated basketball teams.

Duke is the only team I would slap that label on. The other teams aren't really ever talked about THAT much, but are defiantly solid teams.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

Duke is the only team I would slap that label on. The other teams aren't really ever talked about THAT much, but are defiantly solid teams.

Fair, although I think everyone has been down on Maryland but Wake Forest has proven almost every time they get up their in the ranks to be a fraud.

In summary, the best of the best of the ACC (UNC), is almost always better the best of the Big East. But regardless of how bad the Depaul's of the Big East are, I think teams 2-12 are consistently better in the Big East then the ACC.

[HackettStillSux]

LMU BEAT ND at ND.

So Notre Dame is a good team when it suits your argument, otherwise, they are overrated?

[HackettStillSux]

Throughout history the ACC has had the toughest conf and yet UNC has always faced tough non conf scheds so I don't buy that weak excuse. .

There is a difference between playing a tough out of conference schedule, and BEATING a tough out of conference schedule.

[xjets2002x]

For anyone that's wondering and I'm sure you all are, the St.Johns women's team, in the 06-07 season was 8-20 (4-12). Today they are ranked 18th in the country. The Mens team that same year was 16-14 (7-9) and is currently 13th in the BE.

Norm Roberts couldn't squeeze juice from an orange. The best thing for the Johnnies to do would be to lose out. EVERY PLAYER HE HAS RECRUITED NOT NAMED DJ KENNEDY has regressed under him. Justin Burrell, his biggest recruit to that point, looks like a fringe starter in the CAA after a good freshman year. Malike Boothe has as much a right to start in the Big East as I do. Paris Horne has totally disappeared, and Sean Evans is as up and down as they come.

On paper this is a physical team full of mismatch players that should be winning games, but Norm's utter lack of a coherent offensive philosophy(and inability to recruit a point guard of any quality) has stifled them.

-X-

[Theo Huxtable]

Elite Eight Teams 2004-2009

Big East
Louisville III
W Virginia I
UCONN III
Villanova II
Georgetown I
Pittsburgh I
Total: 11

Pac 10
Arizona I
UCLA III
Oregon I
Total:5

SEC
Kentucky II
Alabama I
LSU I
Florida II
Total: 6

Big 10
Illinois I
Wisconsin I
Michigan State II
Ohio State I
Total 6

Big 12
Kansas III
Oklahoma State I
Texas II
Missouri I
Oklahoma I
Total: 8

ACC
UNC IIII
GA Tech I
Duke I
Total: 6

A10
St Joes I
Xavier II
Total: 3

Confrence USA
Memphis III
Total: 3

CAA
George Mason I
Total: 1

Southern Confrence
Davidson I
Total: 1

Oh Gosh...

[nyjunc]

Elite Eight Teams 2004-2009

Big East
Louisville III
W Virginia I
UCONN III
Villanova II
Georgetown I
Pittsburgh I
Total: 11

Pac 10
Arizona I
UCLA III
Oregon I
Total:5

SEC
Kentucky I
Alabama I
LSU I
Florida II
Total: 5

Big 10
Illinois I
Wisconsin I
Michigan State II
Ohio State I
Total 6

Big 12
Kansas III
Oklahoma State I
Texas II
Missouri I
Oklahoma I
Total: 8

ACC
UNC IIII
GA Tech I
Duke I
Total: 6

A10
St Joes I
Xavier II
Total: 3

Confrence USA
Memphis III
Total: 3

CAA
George Mason I
Total: 1

Southern Confrence
Davidson I
Total: 1

Oh Gosh...


Louisville was not a memebr of the BE when they made the elite 8 and of those 10 trips they sent 4 teams to the FF and won one Nat'l title, of the ACC's they sent 5 teams to the FF and won two nat'l Titles. Even when the ACC is down their teams still win more.

[Theo Huxtable]

Louisville was not a memebr of the BE when they made the elite 8 and of those 10 trips they sent 4 teams to the FF and won one Nat'l title, of the ACC's they sent 5 teams to the FF and won two nat'l Titles. Even when the ACC is down their teams still win more.

So with that logic the SEC is as good as the ACC?

...I'll take that:up:

[nyjunc]

In the last 5 years, the ACC has had 3 Final 4 appearances, all by UNC. In that same span, the Big East has also had 3 Final 4 appearances, but by 3 separate teams. UNC is a phenomenal program, but the ACC as a whole in the last 5 years has been UNC and a whole lot of overrated basketball teams.

I agree, the ACC has been down. Expansion has killed the ACC so far, hopefully it's short term. Every other major conf has had a down 5-10+ years, the ACC hasn't experienced that until this current run and it has been masked a bit b/c the heels have been so great.

So Notre Dame is a good team when it suits your argument, otherwise, they are overrated?

Where did I say ND was a good team? You said WVU dropped as many spots losing to ND as Gonzaga did losing to LMU and I pointed out LMU beat ND at ND.

[Yisman]

Louisville was not a memebr of the BE when they made the elite 8

They've made the Elite 8 the last two years as a member of the Big East.


and then you go on to say, well the ACC wins more when they get there. You have to stop moving the goalposts. You were the one who chose Elite 8s as a barometer.

It's a mismatch as of late, but you won't concede that.

[nyjunc]

They've made the Elite 8 the last two years as a member of the Big East.


and then you go on to say, well the ACC wins more when they get there. You have to stop moving the goalposts. You were the one who chose Elite 8s as a barometer.

It's a mismatch as of late, but you won't concede that.

I didn't choose the elite 8 as the barometer and I took away 1 of UL's trips and made it 10 so where was I wrong? I use FFs.


I never said the BE hasn't been better in recent years but people act like the BE is sending teams to the FF every year and even in a down decade for the ACC the ACC sent as many different programs to the FF as the enormous BE and the overall #s were:

ACC: 9 FF teams, 4 National titles
BE: 5 FF teams, 2 National Titles


which is better?

[Yisman]

I didn't choose the elite 8 as the barometer and I took away 1 of UL's trips and made it 10 so where was I wrong?

You said:


Louisville was not a memebr of the BE when they made the elite 8

.

[Theo Huxtable]

I didn't choose the elite 8 as the barometer and I took away 1 of UL's trips and made it 10 so where was I wrong? I use FFs.


I never said the BE hasn't been better in recent years but people act like the BE is sending teams to the FF every year and even in a down decade for the ACC the ACC sent as many different programs to the FF as the enormous BE and the overall #s were:

ACC: 9 FF teams, 4 National titles
BE: 5 FF teams, 2 National Titles


which is better?

Down decade?
We've been talking 5 years the ACC has horrible depth in the tournament.

I don't know what you're comparing to. The ACC had what, 3 championships in the 90's?



EDIT: I'm liking this tournament logic, making the SEC look better and better. haha.

[nyjunc]

You said:




.

I know, I was specifically referring to 2005 although I mistakenly didn't mention it. I also only took away the '05 trip and mentioned it was 10 down from the 11 he posted.

Down decade?
We've been talking 5 years the ACC has horrible depth in the tournament.

I don't know what you're comparing to. The ACC had what, 3 championships in the 90's?



EDIT: I'm liking this tournament logic, making the SEC look better and better. haha.

For the ACC it was a bad decade.

In the 90s the ACC sent 3 teams to the FF but all except one team made at least the elite 8 at some point in the decade and there was only one FF played w/o an ACC team compared to 3 this past decade and the ACC had 11 FF teams in the 90s compared to 9 in the 00s.

The SEC was great in the 90s, it was up there w/ the ACC while the BE was horrible through most of the decade. The SEC has been terrible this decade though w/the exception of UF for a few years.

[Theo Huxtable]

For ACC it's been a down 5 years, but with Duke and Maryland winning in...2001 and I wanna say Maryland won it in 02? They started off strong this decade.

And, meh. The SEC hasn't been consistent this decade, I wouldn't say horrible, LSU was amazing in 06 and solid in 00 and 09. Kentucky was good in 03 and 05 with Elite Eight finishes. Alabama has been way downhill since that 03-04 season though.

[Yisman]

The SEC was pretty weak last season.

West Virginia at UConn tonight, but the game is in the XL Center.

UConn hasn't lost at the Pavilion the last three seasons, while they've lost a pretty high percentage of the games they play at the XL Center. It robs them of a real home court advantage.

[624]

Let's go Huskies! Looking pretty good so far...Walker is a beast.

[SyracuseJet]

The ACC still has a basketball program?

[Yisman]

UConn by 9 at the half.

[wildthing2022000]

The ACC still has a basketball program?

I'm sure Austin Community College still has a basketball program not sure about Adirondack Community College though.

[SyracuseJet]

I'm sure Austin Community College still has a basketball program not sure about Adirondack Community College though.

Ah. Thanks. :up:

[Yisman]

Same old with West Virginia. They can't hit free throws. About 40% tonight.

Edwards and Majuk just fouled out for UConn.

[Yisman]

The Huskies with a second big win over a top 10 team!

With the wins over Texas, Villanova, and West Virginia, they belong in the tournament. None of the three games were even that close.

[624]

Hell YEAHHHHH!!!! GO UCONN

Robinson is an animal

[Murrell2878]

UCONN gets another big win. They looked terrible last weekend

[nyjunc]

For ACC it's been a down 5 years, but with Duke and Maryland winning in...2001 and I wanna say Maryland won it in 02? They started off strong this decade.

And, meh. The SEC hasn't been consistent this decade, I wouldn't say horrible, LSU was amazing in 06 and solid in 00 and 09. Kentucky was good in 03 and 05 with Elite Eight finishes. Alabama has been way downhill since that 03-04 season though.

The SEC only had 4 FF apps last decade, that's awful for a major conference. In the 90s the SEC had 8 FF teams.

There have been some nice seasons but overall the depth hasn't been there for the SEC and really outside of UF the Tourney results haven't been there. It hurts a conf when the marquee program struggles the way UK has. For UK to go an entire decade+ w/o a FF app is not good, programs like UK are not judged on elite 8s.

The Huskies with a second big win over a top 10 team!

With the wins over Texas, Villanova, and West Virginia, they belong in the tournament. None of the three games were even that close.

WVU is a fraud and we all know this but they'll beat Cincy at home then probably move up to #5 next week.

The ACC still has a basketball program?

You might rememebr an ACC team winning the national Title last year, the ACC has 2 since the last BE title. Oh and the Heels crushed the last BE team standing in the FF last year.

[kbgreen]

UCONN gets another big win. They looked terrible last weekend

I think they will get in the NCAA based on the 3 big wins! They still have work to do but those are quality wins.

Too bad this team is too jekyll and hyde for them to make too much noise in the tourney!

[xjets2002x]

I think they will get in the NCAA based on the 3 big wins! They still have work to do but those are quality wins.

Too bad this team is too jekyll and hyde for them to make too much noise in the tourney!

I disagree. I don't think I can name 3 teams in the country more athletic than UConn and they seem to rise to the occasion in big games. Since they don't project to have a very high seed, they'll be playing tough games. If Stanley Roberts plays like he did last night and Dyson and Walker can limit the turnovers, this team has enough quality guard play and size to crack the Sweet 16.

[xjets2002x]

The SEC only had 4 FF apps last decade, that's awful for a major conference. In the 90s the SEC had 8 FF teams.

There have been some nice seasons but overall the depth hasn't been there for the SEC and really outside of UF the Tourney results haven't been there. It hurts a conf when the marquee program struggles the way UK has. For UK to go an entire decade+ w/o a FF app is not good, programs like UK are not judged on elite 8s.



WVU is a fraud and we all know this but they'll beat Cincy at home then probably move up to #5 next week.



You might rememebr an ACC team winning the national Title last year, the ACC has 2 since the last BE title. Oh and the Heels crushed the last BE team standing in the FF last year.


Look, there's no Big East team that will ever be able to compete, recruitingwise, with Carolina and its beautiful campus and rich tradition, but I will say going forward that Roy certainly dims your chances of repeating. I've never seen a coach do less with more in my entire life. What's the sense in UNC circles about this season? Is he on the hot seat?

-X-

[nyjunc]

Look, there's no Big East team that will ever be able to compete, recruitingwise, with Carolina and its beautiful campus and rich tradition, but I will say going forward that Roy certainly dims your chances of repeating. I've never seen a coach do less with more in my entire life. What's the sense in UNC circles about this season? Is he on the hot seat?

-X-

On the hot seat? he just won his 2nd National Title a year ago. if this became a trend then the seat would get warm but he is a legendary figure and will be at Carolina as long as he wants.

You act like he has had the most talented team by far every year and doesn't win, there are only a few years where he's had the most talented team and hasn't won.

This year didn't go according to plan but Carolina basketball will be back quickly. I think they need to find out what is in the water and why so many players seem to be getting hurt lately, the last couple of years it has been ridicululous w/ injuries. They overcame them last year but haven't been able to do so this year and they should have been able to do so this year. This is Roy's worst coaching job but he's still nowhere near the hot seat.

[kbgreen]

I disagree. I don't think I can name 3 teams in the country more athletic than UConn and they seem to rise to the occasion in big games. Since they don't project to have a very high seed, they'll be playing tough games. If Stanley Roberts plays like he did last night and Dyson and Walker can limit the turnovers, this team has enough quality guard play and size to crack the Sweet 16.

Well i guess I should have defined "make some noise". I would say the elite 8 is making some noise. They just are too inconsistant, They beat 3 top 10 teams but loose to Cincy twice and providence?

Talent wise I agree with you! They are impressive but they seem to just not show up in some games.

[kbgreen]

On the hot seat? he just won his 2nd National Title a year ago. if this became a trend then the seat would get warm but he is a legendary figure and will be at Carolina as long as he wants.

You act like he has had the most talented team by far every year and doesn't win, there are only a few years where he's had the most talented team and hasn't won.

This year didn't go according to plan but Carolina basketball will be back quickly. I think they need to find out what is in the water and why so many players seem to be getting hurt lately, the last couple of years it has been ridicululous w/ injuries. They overcame them last year but haven't been able to do so this year and they should have been able to do so this year. This is Roy's worst coaching job but he's still nowhere near the hot seat.


Nor should he be! He is one of the best coaches in the country!

I will say that you always seem to have the best talent in the country!

But team chemistry is almost as important as talent and some teams either just don't gel or take a long time to come together. UNC is a very young team with great potential, those kids just have not figured out how to win together yet! If they all stay around they will be a very scary team in a couple of seasons if not next year.

[nyjunc]

Well i guess I should have defined "make some noise". I would say the elite 8 is making some noise. They just are too inconsistant, They beat 3 top 10 teams but loose to Cincy twice and providence?

Talent wise I agree with you! They are impressive but they seem to just not show up in some games.

I think Sweet 16 would be making some noise for them this year. if they get that far it will have been a great year considering what they lost. They are where I expected Carolina to be- a tourney team w/ a break or two that could possibly make a run to the Sweet 16.

[nyjunc]

Nor should he be! He is one of the best coaches in the country!

I will say that you always seem to have the best talent in the country!

But team chemistry is almost as important as talent and some teams either just don't gel or take a long time to come together. UNC is a very young team with great potential, those kids just have not figured out how to win together yet! If they all stay around they will be a very scary team in a couple of seasons if not next year.

He's a great recruiter and we always have talented teams- one of the top teams talent wise but it's hard to say THE most talented.

I'm confident they will be a top 10-15 type team next year w/ the experience of the young guys and Barnes, bullock and Marshall coming in.

[Italian Seafood]

Rutgers-Seton Hall tonight, battle of Jersey. Big one for the Hall, hanging on the fringe.

[xjets2002x]

On the hot seat? he just won his 2nd National Title a year ago. if this became a trend then the seat would get warm but he is a legendary figure and will be at Carolina as long as he wants.

You act like he has had the most talented team by far every year and doesn't win, there are only a few years where he's had the most talented team and hasn't won.



I don't know anyone else who has so much trouble competing with 7 McDonald's All Americans on his team, injuries or not.

He won last year with a team that had 4 players drafted, 3 in the first round, and Ed Davis, who would have been a lottery pick. The last time he won, he had 4 first round picks and Jawad Williams.

At Kansas, his talented teams always fell short. It took a combination of Bill Self and Roy Williams, not in the way he intended, to get the Jayhawks cutting down nets again.

-X-

[nyjunc]

I don't know anyone else who has so much trouble competing with 7 McDonald's All Americans on his team, injuries or not.

He won last year with a team that had 4 players drafted, 3 in the first round, and Ed Davis, who would have been a lottery pick. The last time he won, he had 4 first round picks and Jawad Williams.

At Kansas, his talented teams always fell short. It took a combination of Bill Self and Roy Williams, not in the way he intended, to get the Jayhawks cutting down nets again.

-X-

He's never missed the Tourney before this year and has nevre not won at least 1 game in the Tourney. he did lose his 4 best players including 2 early. I expected to be alot better, it just hasn't happened for this team and he's done a terrible job but to act like this is the norm is silly. he definitely has talent but not all McD's are created equal, there weren't any surefire stars coming in this year like they have next year.

Show me the coaches winning Championships w/o future NBA players? Does he get bonus points for taking KU to the title game in '91 w/ w/ only 2 future NBA players and neither any good?

he made 4 FFs and 2 title games w/ KU. It's not like he was missing the Tourney and the program stunk. He couldn't get over the hump, thankfully he has at UNC w/ more Championships to come.

Self got lucky that Memphis choked down the stretch. Does it say anything about coaching abilityt that KU choked at the FT line against SU costing them a title and Self benefitted from memphis choking a few years later?

[kbgreen]

I don't know anyone else who has so much trouble competing with 7 McDonald's All Americans on his team, injuries or not.

He won last year with a team that had 4 players drafted, 3 in the first round, and Ed Davis, who would have been a lottery pick. The last time he won, he had 4 first round picks and Jawad Williams.

At Kansas, his talented teams always fell short. It took a combination of Bill Self and Roy Williams, not in the way he intended, to get the Jayhawks cutting down nets again.
-X-

Only because SU upset their party in 2003. (I still have a framed shot of Warrick's block on my wall!)

He was real close in Kansas and I think would have done it there if he stayed. It's hard to label any coach an under acheiver that has won 2 championships.

And as for talent, The man is a great recruiter which is 75% of the challenge in college. The other 25% is to get the talent to stay a couple of years develop that talent into a unit.

[nyjunc]

Only because SU upset their party in 2003. (I still have a framed shot of Warrick's block on my wall!)

He was real close in Kansas and I think would have done it there if he stayed. It's hard to label any coach an under acheiver that has won 2 championships.

And as for talent, The man is a great recruiter which is 75% of the challenge in college. The other 25% is to get the talent to stay a couple of years develop that talent into a unit.

From 2002-2009(8 seasons) Roy led teams to 5 Final Fours, 3 Championship games and 2 National Titles. No one had a better decade in the 2000s.

[kbgreen]

From 2002-2009(8 seasons) Roy led teams to 5 Final Fours, 3 Championship games and 2 National Titles. No one had a better decade in the 2000s.

But I guess it's a "what have you done for me lately" world.

[xjets2002x]

From 2002-2009(8 seasons) Roy led teams to 5 Final Fours, 3 Championship games and 2 National Titles. No one had a better decade in the 2000s.

No one had a better team. He won one title with a talented team(as I've already articulated) in need of a change from Doherty, and he won another with a team full of guys who should have already been in the NBA. That Kansas team didn't win ONE TITLE and they were stacked!

I simply have a hard time believing that any coach with the level of talent that Williams has put together would only have two national titles over a career as long, particularly with his winning percentage.

-X-

[xjets2002x]

But I guess it's a "what have you done for me lately" world.

More like a "I need at least 4 NBA first round talents to win anything" world. At least.

-X-

[Yisman]

I disagree. I don't think I can name 3 teams in the country more athletic than UConn and they seem to rise to the occasion in big games. Since they don't project to have a very high seed, they'll be playing tough games. If Stanley Roberts plays like he did last night and Dyson and Walker can limit the turnovers, this team has enough quality guard play and size to crack the Sweet 16.

Stanley Roberts was the guy who played with Shaq at LSU and was too fat and on drugs to make it in the NBA.

I think you mean Stanley Robinson.

Anyway, they're one of the more talented teams in the country, so if they get in, they definitely can make the Sweet 16.

How many teams have the upside to pull off wins against Villanova, West Virginia, and Texas?

[GQMartin]

Only because SU upset their party in 2003. (I still have a framed shot of Warrick's block on my wall!)

Nice!

My g/f got me a plaque, signed by Melo, including a piece of the 2003 championship court, certified by Steiner...straight legit.

[kbgreen]

Nice!

My g/f got me a plaque, signed by Melo, including a piece of the 2003 championship court, certified by Steiner...straight legit.

Nice as well!

I have a signed carmello sports ill. cover!

[GQMartin]

Kb I don't know if you saw these pics or not (if you did my bad) but my fraternity threw Cuse their victory party in 2003, some of the guys got to hang with them in New Orleans after the game too.

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[kbgreen]

More like a "I need at least 4 NBA first round talents to win anything" world. At least.

-X-

I went back to 2003 and no team has won with less than two first round picks on their roster!

[GQMartin]

Providence tonight.

[kbgreen]

Kb I don't know if you saw these pics or not (if you did my bad) but my fraternity threw Cuse their victory party in 2003, some of the guys got to hang with them in New Orleans after the game too.

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That is awesome! I wish I could have been there live!

[nyjunc]

No one had a better team. He won one title with a talented team(as I've already articulated) in need of a change from Doherty, and he won another with a team full of guys who should have already been in the NBA. That Kansas team didn't win ONE TITLE and they were stacked!

I simply have a hard time believing that any coach with the level of talent that Williams has put together would only have two national titles over a career as long, particularly with his winning percentage.

-X-

Stacked teams don't win it every year, UConn was stacked last year, Memphis 2 years ago, UCLA 2 years ago, Illinois '05, duke '04, etc...

It's not all about titles. The man has 7 FFs and 2 titles, every big coach gets elite talent. Compare him to other greats:

Boeheim: 3 FFs and 1 title
Calhoun: 3 FFs and 2 titles
K: 10 FFs and 3 titles(he's coached alot longer than Roy and only has 3 more FFs and 1 more title)
Howland: 3 FFs and zero titles
Self: 1 FF and 1 title
Calipari: 2 FFs and zero titles

I can go on and on, this isn't women's CBB where 2 UConn and UT dominate and win a million titles.


You do realize that every champio has multiple NBA picks on their team, right?

-KU '08 had 4 draft picks and 2 more on the way
-UF '06 and '07 had 4 picks
-UConn '04 had the 1st and 3rd overall pick and had 3 other 1st rd picks the next 2 years from that team
-SU '03 had a future NBA superstar in Carmelo as well as Hakim Warrick
-MD '02 had 4 picks
-duke '01 had 5 draft picks

do I need to go on?

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

Stacked teams don't win it every year, UConn was stacked last year, Memphis 2 years ago, UCLA 2 years ago, Illinois '05, duke '04, etc...

It's not all about titles. The man has 7 FFs and 2 titles, every big coach gets elite talent. Compare him to other greats:

Boeheim: 3 FFs and 1 title
Calhoun: 3 FFs and 2 titles
K: 10 FFs and 3 titles(he's coached alot longer than Roy and only has 3 more FFs and 1 more title)
Howland: 3 FFs and zero titles
Self: 1 FF and 1 title
Calipari: 2 FFs and zero titles

I can go on and on, this isn't women's CBB where 2 UConn and UT dominate and win a million titles.


You do realize that every champio has multiple NBA picks on their team, right?

-KU '08 had 4 draft picks and 2 more on the way
-UF '06 and '07 had 4 picks
-UConn '04 had the 1st and 3rd overall pick and had 3 other 1st rd picks the next 2 years from that team
-SU '03 had a future NBA superstar in Carmelo as well as Hakim Warrick
-MD '02 had 4 picks
-duke '01 had 5 draft picks

do I need to go on?


So it's not all about the titles when talking about a coach, yet it is when dealing conference to conference?

[nyjunc]

So it's not all about the titles when talking about a coach, yet it is when dealing conference to conference?

Show me where I have said it was ALL about nat'l titles? I always use FFs first and titles second.

[Theo Huxtable]

Big big game for the Gators tonight, I think if they win tonight and don't get blown out by Vandy and UK they're in the tourny. It's tied at halftime.

[Yisman]

Florida blew out Tennessee to solidify a spot.

[Theo Huxtable]

75-62 Gators.
12th straight 20 win seasons.
I'm hoping for a win in Georgia, and win at home versus Vandy and a close game versus Kentucky.

[kbgreen]

SU took care of providence. Weird game in the first half they were killing us with 3's.

I think the announcer had it right when he said (i'm paraphrasing) "I am not so sure Providence wants to play this tempo with no defence with this Syracuse squad, Sure you can do it for a while but this team can bring it at you all game"

He was right and the second half was a dominate performance by the 'Cuse.

Next up is Nova!

[Italian Seafood]

Seton Hall took care of business at home vs Rutgers, now 16-10, 7-8, hanging on that fringe. I say win 2 of the last 3, get to NY at 18-11, 9-9, then win a game or two there and we're in.

[kbgreen]

Seton Hall took care of business at home vs Rutgers, now 16-10, 7-8, hanging on that fringe. I say win 2 of the last 3, get to NY at 18-11, 9-9, then win a game or two there and we're in.

Not so sure aren't they weak in quality wins? Also, how many Big East teams do you think will make it?

My current guess is 8 -
SU
NOVA
G-town
WV
Pitt
Marq
L-ville
UConn

out
Cincy
Seton Hall
ND
S Florida

[Italian Seafood]

Not so sure aren't they weak in quality wins? Also, how many Big East teams do you think will make it?

My current guess is 8 -
SU
NOVA
G-town
WV
Pitt
Marq
L-ville
UConn

out
Cincy
Seton Hall
ND
S Florida

The Hall has beaten Pittsburgh, Louisville and I think Cincinnati, went to OT with West Virginia, also the early win at Cornell is looking better and better. I think they beat Virginia Tech early too, but I'm not sure how good they are.

Regading the Big East, I'm not sure. When you consider they have 16 teams and how good a lot of them are, I'd think 8 isn't out of the question. I haven't followed it all too closely but it always depends on what goes down with bubble teams from other conferences and will probably go right down to selection Sunday. Could be a close-as-balls second round Big East tournament game at the Garden at like 4 in the afternoon that decides their fate.

[nyjunc]

Not so sure aren't they weak in quality wins? Also, how many Big East teams do you think will make it?

My current guess is 8 -
SU
NOVA
G-town
WV
Pitt
Marq
L-ville
UConn

out
Cincy
Seton Hall
ND
S Florida

I don't see how UL and Marq can make it.

[Italian Seafood]

I don't see how UL and Marq can make it.

Probably comes down to the Big East tournament for them, too. An early exit could doom them, a win or two could put them in, especially over a good team.

[kbgreen]

I don't see how UL and Marq can make it.


Took these two from Joe Lunardi:

L-ville beat top 5 SU and a 30 RPI - Normally that gets teams in.
Marquette is a little tougher but they have a winable last 3 games and may have 20 wins going into the BE tourney.

[HackettStillSux]

MUST win game for Villanova tonight as they play a pesky USF team. They need this one to retain their 2 seed, and stay in the bidding for a 1 seed.

[xjets2002x]

The Hall has beaten Pittsburgh, Louisville and I think Cincinnati, went to OT with West Virginia, also the early win at Cornell is looking better and better. I think they beat Virginia Tech early too, but I'm not sure how good they are.

Regading the Big East, I'm not sure. When you consider they have 16 teams and how good a lot of them are, I'd think 8 isn't out of the question. I haven't followed it all too closely but it always depends on what goes down with bubble teams from other conferences and will probably go right down to selection Sunday. Could be a close-as-balls second round Big East tournament game at the Garden at like 4 in the afternoon that decides their fate.

If the Hall wins out they'll have an easier game in the first round of the Big East tourney. The schedule really favors them. I'd say if they win their next five they have a great shot, but that's easier said than done.

-X-

[nyjunc]

Took these two from Joe Lunardi:

L-ville beat top 5 SU and a 30 RPI - Normally that gets teams in.
Marquette is a little tougher but they have a winable last 3 games and may have 20 wins going into the BE tourney.

They have the nice win over SU but nothing else, check out their wins outside of the SU game:

Arkansas
E. tenn St.
Morgan State
App. State
Stetson
Oral Roberts
W. KY
LA Lafayette
Radford
USF
Prov
SJU
Cincy
Conn
RU
SU
ND
Depaul


One win against a ranked team and one win over a guaranteed Tourney team.

Their losses:

UNLV
Charlotte
W. Carolina
UK
'Nova
Pitt
SH
WVU
SJU
GU

They lost to 5 teams not likely to make the tourney. There's no way UL should even be on the bubble.

[kbgreen]

They have the nice win over SU but nothing else, check out their wins outside of the SU game:

Arkansas
E. tenn St.
Morgan State
App. State
Stetson
Oral Roberts
W. KY
LA Lafayette
Radford
USF
Prov
SJU
Cincy
Conn
RU
SU
ND
Depaul


One win against a ranked team and one win over a guaranteed Tourney team.

Their losses:

UNLV
Charlotte
W. Carolina
UK
'Nova
Pitt
SH
WVU
SJU
GU


They lost to 5 teams not likely to make the tourney. There's no way UL should even be on the bubble.

This is a weird year and there just are not that many quality bubble teams. I honestly think the lessors teams the big conferences are going to benefit because of it!

[nyjunc]

This is a weird year and there just are not that many quality bubble teams. I honestly think the lessors teams the big conferences are going to benefit because of it!

You could be right.

[SyracuseJet]

Wow. Notre Dame smoked Pitt.

[MParty7441]

Tough loss for SJU tonight wow.

[Jetfanmack]

The problem is not many mid majors are stepping up either. Just vast inconsistencies once you get past the top 35 teams or so.

Louisville gets into the tournament because they're above .500 in the Big East and they beat Syracuse. But they can't afford many more slipups because they're barely in, and they're only in because the bubble sucks.

[nyjunc]

That makes it more frustrating, it's such a weak year where even if Carolina was 7-9 in the ACC they'd likely get in yet they aren't good enough to even get to that point. This season was set up perfectly w/ a young team and shockingly they have had a terrible year.

I hope we never see those silver uniforms again either.

[SyracuseJet]

So what's Purdue without Hummel?

[kbgreen]

That makes it more frustrating, it's such a weak year where even if Carolina was 7-9 in the ACC they'd likely get in yet they aren't good enough to even get to that point. This season was set up perfectly w/ a young team and shockingly they have had a terrible year.

I hope we never see those silver uniforms again either.

What has me confused is how they started off pretty well and just fell apart. They had two qualitiy wins early (Ohio State and Mich St) and then has been just horrible in conference. I thought with Roy W at the helm that would not happen but it did.

[kbgreen]

So what's Purdue without Hummel?

I wonder too! Did he tear the acl?

[Murrell2878]

A college basketball reference site has been created

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[Murrell2878]

I wonder too! Did he tear the acl?

This is bad news for Purdue...

[nyjunc]

A college basketball reference site has been created

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That is great!



Obviously if Purdue loses Hummell for an extended period of time they are not nearly as dangerous. I hope he's ok.

[Yisman]

Speaking of UNC, how do they get blown out by FSU at home? This is some kind of run. Lost 10 of 12, with the only wins coming over North Carolina State.

The Hummel loss is a big blow for Purdue, of course. He's going to visit a doctor in Indianapolis and get an opinion on the knee injury and how serious it is. No word yet on whether it involves torn ligaments.

Here's a blog entry (To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.) from a few minutes ago.

Coach Matt Painter postponed his teleconference Thursday to Friday in an effort to have more time to gather information on Robbie Hummel's knee injury.

Hummel was scheduled to visit a doctor in Indianapolis today, Purdue men's basketball sports information director Cory Walton said.

A news release will be sent when the injury is definitively known, which may or may not be today.

Their chances for a #1 seed are very slim now. Right now my prediction would be Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and Syracuse.

[nyjunc]

If Hummell is out they aren't getting a 1 seed, if he's ok they are clearly a 1. As of today they are a 1 seed.

[Revis is your daddy]

The Hall has beaten Pittsburgh, Louisville and I think Cincinnati, went to OT with West Virginia, also the early win at Cornell is looking better and better. I think they beat Virginia Tech early too, but I'm not sure how good they are.

Regading the Big East, I'm not sure. When you consider they have 16 teams and how good a lot of them are, I'd think 8 isn't out of the question. I haven't followed it all too closely but it always depends on what goes down with bubble teams from other conferences and will probably go right down to selection Sunday. Could be a close-as-balls second round Big East tournament game at the Garden at like 4 in the afternoon that decides their fate.

We lost to V Tech in OT on neutral court. We have a huge game against marquette on sunday which could decide which of us make the tourny. If we win which we should because we are a far better home team, we will be 8-8 in the BE with 2 gmes left against prov and Ru. 10-8 and a BET win and i think we should be dancing.

[nyjunc]

We lost to V Tech in OT on neutral court. We have a huge game against marquette on sunday which could decide which of us make the tourny. If we win which we should because we are a far better home team, we will be 8-8 in the BE with 2 gmes left against prov and Ru. 10-8 and a BET win and i think we should be dancing.

where is the eye catching win for the committee? They don't have one.

[Yisman]

If Hummell is out they aren't getting a 1 seed, if he's ok they are clearly a 1. As of today they are a 1 seed.

I agree. What I was saying is that Hummel is going to miss at least a few games, even if it isn't a torn ligament, and those games will cost them the #1 seed.

They have Michigan State, Indiana, and Penn State to close it out, and then of course the conference tournament in like two weeks.

[nyjunc]

I agree. What I was saying is that Hummel is going to miss at least a few games, even if it isn't a torn ligament, and those games will cost them the #1 seed.

They have Michigan State, Indiana, and Penn State to close it out, and then of course the conference tournament in like two weeks.

As long as Hummell is ok to go for the Tourney they can still get a 1 seed if they go 2-1 in that stretch but who knows? If 'Nova beats SU and closes out strong they'll make a great case for a 1, if duke wins the ACC Tourney after winning the reg season they can make a case. That last #1 will be interesting.

[Jetfanmack]

where is the eye catching win for the committee? They don't have one.

Well, they have no bad losses. If they win out, 10-8 in the BE should be enough to put them squarely on the bubble.

Funny how SHU and VT are in almost the same spot.

[nyjunc]

Well, they have no bad losses. If they win out, 10-8 in the BE should be enough to put them squarely on the bubble.

Funny how SHU and VT are in almost the same spot.

USF is a bad lsos but you are right, they don't have any truly awful losses to go w/ no big wins.

VT and SH are close, the results of that OT game could decide an NCAA berth though VT did beat the defending National Champs:grin::sad:

[Yisman]

USF is a bad lsos but you are right, they don't have any truly awful losses to go w/ no big wins.

VT and SH are close, the results of that OT game could decide an NCAA berth though VT did beat the defending National Champs:grin::sad:

Gotta get Charleston, Boston College, and Virginia in. :)

[Jetfanmack]

USF is a bad lsos but you are right, they don't have any truly awful losses to go w/ no big wins.

VT and SH are close, the results of that OT game could decide an NCAA berth though VT did beat the defending National Champs:grin::sad:

Not on the road, USF isn't a bad loss. Not for a bubble team. If they lost at home to USF, I'd agree with you, or if they lost on the road to DePaul, Rutgers, or Providence, it would be a bad loss (not St. John's, mind you), but road wins in conference are tough to come by. If these bubble teams had those wins, they wouldn't be bubble teams.

Virginia Tech found out what happens when you schedule an atrocious OOC slate. 21-6 and 8-5 in the ACC puts you right on the bubble.

Seton Hall is their best OOC win, and it's really not that close (Georgia?).

VT needs to go 2-1 down the stretch (vs MD, vs NC ST, at GaTech) to get in. They should do it. If not, they don't deserve to get in.

[Italian Seafood]

where is the eye catching win for the committee? They don't have one.

Beating Pittsburgh at home on Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest win. I'm not sure how "big" it is but that is the biggest win. I forgot the VT game was a loss, South Florida was bad but not as bad as it seemed at the time after beating Pittsburgh, USF won a few games right after that.

[kbgreen]

Purdue loses Hummel for season!

Purdue forward Robbie Hummel has a torn ACL and will miss the rest of the season, the school said Thursday.

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That is a huge loss for them!

[Jetfanmack]

Beating Pittsburgh at home on Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest win. I'm not sure how "big" it is but that is the biggest win. I forgot the VT game was a loss, South Florida was bad but not as bad as it seemed at the time after beating Pittsburgh, USF won a few games right after that.

I think you need 20-21 wins to get in. Win out, win your first round BET game, and play well in your 2nd round, and you have a very good chance.

[nyjunc]

Not on the road, USF isn't a bad loss. Not for a bubble team. If they lost at home to USF, I'd agree with you, or if they lost on the road to DePaul, Rutgers, or Providence, it would be a bad loss (not St. John's, mind you), but road wins in conference are tough to come by. If these bubble teams had those wins, they wouldn't be bubble teams.

Virginia Tech found out what happens when you schedule an atrocious OOC slate. 21-6 and 8-5 in the ACC puts you right on the bubble.

Seton Hall is their best OOC win, and it's really not that close (Georgia?).

VT needs to go 2-1 down the stretch (vs MD, vs NC ST, at GaTech) to get in. They should do it. If not, they don't deserve to get in.

USF is a bad loss, they beat a couple of overrated top teams in the BE but that is not a good basketball team. USF lost to Cent. Michigan in non conf play and they are getting worse and worse as the season progresses.

Beating Pittsburgh at home on Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest win. I'm not sure how "big" it is but that is the biggest win. I forgot the VT game was a loss, South Florida was bad but not as bad as it seemed at the time after beating Pittsburgh, USF won a few games right after that.

I hope SH gets in, I root for SH and SJU to do well but I don't think SH deserves it at this point.

Purdue loses Hummel for season!

Purdue forward Robbie Hummel has a torn ACL and will miss the rest of the season, the school said Thursday.

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That is a huge loss for them!

That's awful news, they were a legit title contender. I was planning on pikcing them in my bracket too- so much for that.

[kbgreen]

USF is a bad loss, they beat a couple of overrated top teams in the BE but that is not a good basketball team. USF lost to Cent. Michigan in non conf play and they are getting worse and worse as the season progresses.



I hope SH gets in, I root for SH and SJU to do well but I don't think SH deserves it at this point.



That's awful news, they were a legit title contender. I was planning on pikcing them in my bracket too- so much for that.

They may be a 2 or 3 seed come tourney time. The next couple of weeks will decide how much of a threat they are without him.

[SyracuseJet]

Purdue loses Hummel for season!

Purdue forward Robbie Hummel has a torn ACL and will miss the rest of the season, the school said Thursday.

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That is a huge loss for them!

That'll teach Purdue for trying to jump 'Cuse in the rankings.

[MParty7441]

Too bad, PU would have been my NCAA Champ. pick this year.

[Revis is your daddy]

where is the eye catching win for the committee? They don't have one.

Pittsburgh is our best win but our worst loss is only to USF.

[kbgreen]

That'll teach Purdue for trying to jump 'Cuse in the rankings.

What were they thinking?

[firemanedjr]

Too bad, PU would have been my NCAA Champ. pick this year.

Yup. I've been high on them since pre-season. I still think they're an elite 8 team, but that hurts. I guess I'm picking Cuse or Kansas now, depending on the draw.

[Italian Seafood]

I hope SH gets in, I root for SH and SJU to do well but I don't think SH deserves it at this point.

At this point no, but the opportunity is in front of them with some winnable games. As tough as the Big East can be, it you're a decent bubble team that gets hot late the chances are always there. There's a good combination of bad teams you can beat and good teams you can get try to a quality win against.

[Yisman]

As long as Hummell is ok to go for the Tourney they can still get a 1 seed if they go 2-1 in that stretch but who knows? If 'Nova beats SU and closes out strong they'll make a great case for a 1, if duke wins the ACC Tourney after winning the reg season they can make a case. That last #1 will be interesting.

I guess you've come around on Duke? Before when I was saying they were clearly the best ACC team (and an elite team) you said they weren't really any better than Clemson or other ACC teams.

To me they're the only elite team in the ACC and head and shoulders above the rest.

[Theo Huxtable]

I guess you've come around on Duke? Before when I was saying they were clearly the best ACC team (and an elite team) you said they weren't really any better than Clemson or other ACC teams.

To me they're the only elite team in the ACC and head and shoulders above the rest.

They still wont do THAT well in the tourny.

[Yisman]

I don't know if they'll break with the recent trend and go deep, but I'd take my chances on them making the Elite Eight over any other ACC team, that's for sure.

Besides, even if they don't do well in the tourney, it doesn't change the fact that they were easily the best ACC team throughout the season.

[Antoni]

They still wont do THAT well in the tourny.



What's your definition of that well? There are only a handful of teams better than Duke, imo. Depending on the draw they're likely to go very, very far.

[Yisman]

off topic:

Hasheem Thabeet was just sent down to the D League. Looks like a wasted pick.

[Theo Huxtable]

What's your definition of that well? There are only a handful of teams better than Duke, imo. Depending on the draw they're likely to go very, very far.

Elite Eight.
I highly doubt it. I can make a much better prediction once the draw happens, but no. I don't think Duke is
really that good, plus they've done worse in the tournament with way better teams.

My prediction now, without a bracket is that Duke loses in the Sweet 16....again.


I like how im judging Duke saying if they don't make it to the Elite 8 or Final 4 their season is a complete failure
while I'll be doing fucking backflips if my Gators make it to the Sweet 16.

[nyjunc]

I guess you've come around on Duke? Before when I was saying they were clearly the best ACC team (and an elite team) you said they weren't really any better than Clemson or other ACC teams.

To me they're the only elite team in the ACC and head and shoulders above the rest.

I haven't come around at all, I think they can get a 1 but I don't think they have any shot at getting to the FF. They have taken care of business, Clemson hasn't- they had some injury problems but they stillhad to take care of business and they didn't. I don't think there is much difference btw duke, Clem, Tech,... but duke has taken care of business.

There aren't any elite teams in the ACC this year.

What's your definition of that well? There are only a handful of teams better than Duke, imo. Depending on the draw they're likely to go very, very far.

duke needs a FF runb, they haven't reached one since 2004- they haven't even been to the elite 8 since 2004 so a sweet 16 run doesn't cut it. They will be a 1 or 2 seed(barring a collapse) and they should at least make the elite 8. There aren't many really good teams which helps them but I still can't see them winning 4 games in the Tourney.

[Barry the Baptist]

off topic:

Hasheem Thabeet was just sent down to the D League. Looks like a wasted pick.

I think even casual NBA fans knew he was garbage. It's not like he was a dominating presence in college. He was a one dimenional player. What's amazing is that the Grizzlies aren't that awful considering the fact that essentially threw away a 2nd pick and handed Gasol to the Lakers for nothing.

Imagine if they would have drafted somebody like Harden or Evans?

[Jetfanmack]

I think even casual NBA fans knew he was garbage. It's not like he was a dominating presence in college. He was a one dimenional player. What's amazing is that the Grizzlies aren't that awful considering the fact that essentially threw away a 2nd pick and handed Gasol to the Lakers for nothing.

Imagine if they would have drafted somebody like Harden or Evans?

Darko v2.0!

[Barry the Baptist]

Darko v2.0!

Consider Griffin has been injured all year and it could go down as an awful draft for both teams. Then you have Rubio who essentially told the NBA to fuck off. As bad as Darko was he still has a ring and has shown some flashes of mediocrity.

[kbgreen]

I think even casual NBA fans knew he was garbage. It's not like he was a dominating presence in college. He was a one dimenional player. What's amazing is that the Grizzlies aren't that awful considering the fact that essentially threw away a 2nd pick and handed Gasol to the Lakers for nothing.

Imagine if they would have drafted somebody like Harden or Evans?

Actually, Mark Gasol can play, So they did get something back in the Laker trade. Not an even trade but consiering Minnisota gave the Celtics Garnett for nothing as well the same year i'm fine with it.

The NBA trades are messed up these days, they just do not get value for their players. Look at the jamison trade the wisards already cut Ilgaukis and he is on his way back to cleveland. So they have nothing to show for that trade

[Yisman]

I haven't come around at all, I think they can get a 1 but I don't think they have any shot at getting to the FF. They have taken care of business, Clemson hasn't- they had some injury problems but they stillhad to take care of business and they didn't. I don't think there is much difference btw duke, Clem, Tech,... but duke has taken care of business.


The bottom line is that they've been better than Clemson this season and there's no question about it. You wouldn't admit it even if you were scared of Duke going deep into the tournament.

You keep saying it's a down year for college basketball, but now you say Duke doesn't have any shot at the FF? Of course they have a shot. It's more likely that they don't make it there, but that applies to every team, really.

I think even casual NBA fans knew he was garbage. It's not like he was a dominating presence in college. He was a one dimenional player.

The idea was that the physical tools were there and they were hoping to develop his offensive game.

What's amazing is that the Grizzlies aren't that awful considering the fact that essentially threw away a 2nd pick and handed Gasol to the Lakers for nothing.


Not true at all. Some people felt at the time Pau was a gift, but Marc Gasol has been very good and is a big part of Memphis's success. Could Wallace have landed a better deal? Probably, but saying he gave Gasol away for nothing couldn't be more wrong.

They got Marc, one of the top centers in the game now (just turned 25), two first round picks, and expiring contracts.

Consider Griffin has been injured all year and it could go down as an awful draft for both teams. Then you have Rubio who essentially told the NBA to fuck off. As bad as Darko was he still has a ring and has shown some flashes of mediocrity.

A ring he had nothing to do with. You don't get credit for a championship ring unless you actually contributed in some way to it.

[Yisman]

Actually, Mark Gasol can play, So they did get something back in the Laker trade. Not an even trade but consiering Minnisota gave the Celtics Garnett for nothing as well the same year i'm fine with it.


Al Jefferson (elite young player whose career has been hurt by injuries), Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Telfair, Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, and two first rounders (one ended up being 6th overall in 2009).

Like the Pau deal, it worked out for both teams.

[kbgreen]

Al Jefferson (elite young player whose career has been hurt by injuries), Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Telfair, Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, and two first rounders

Al Jefferson is good to very good but not elite, Gomes is average

Here is an article on the laker trade:

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Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace isn't crowing, though who could blame him?

And there's no longer a loud chorus of criticism around the NBA, either.



When the Grizzlies traded Pau Gasol (16) for his brother, Marc, in 2008, the franchise took intense criticism, but now Marc is one of the league's top centers and the roster is stocked with young, affordable talent.


Thanks to salary-cap space created by the Pau Gasol trade, the Griz signed Zach Randolph who has teamed with Marc Gasol to form a powerful frontcourt.


The Grizzlies' trade of Pau Gasol to the L.A. Lakers two years ago generated tons of salary-cap space and draft picks. Here's how that has translated to the current roster:

Darrell Arthur (draft)

Ronnie Brewer (cap space)

DeMarre Carroll (cap space, draft)

Marc Gasol (trade)

Hamed Haddadi (cap space)

Lester Hudson (cap space)

Steven Hunter (cap space)

Zach Randolph (cap space)

Sam Young (cap space, draft)


The once-maligned trade that moved Pau Gasol from Memphis to the Los Angeles Lakers two years ago this month looks a lot different these days.

What initially was greeted with great cynicism, laughter and disgust -- a lopsided transaction in the Lakers' favor -- is looking more like a win-win for both teams.

Cap space and flexibility are no longer punch lines in Memphis. The Griz, given time to connect the dots of the deal, have stockpiled useful players.

Of the 15 players on the Grizzlies' roster, nine came as a result of the extra money and draft picks generated by Gasol's 2008 departure. And they still have more to gain from the transaction.

The Lakers visit FedExForum tonight as the NBA's defending champions in large part due to Gasol. The Grizzlies are better off, too, having positioned themselves as one of the Western Conference's up-and-coming young teams.

"I've said all along that I've never lost any sleep over the deal," Wallace said. "As difficult as it was to trade a player like Pau Gasol -- and he's gone on to be the impetus for L.A. winning a championship -- that wasn't going to happen here in our situation.

"We could not get a Kobe Bryant or a LeBron James to put around him. It wasn't going anywhere. Changes had to be made. The deal allowed us to get tremendous flexibility. We got back a wide variety of assets and many of them are paying dividends right now."

The NBA trade committee that San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich wanted to create in his angry response to the deal would likely approve of Memphis' rationale. The recent addition of Ronnie Brewer in a trade with Utah is the latest of many benefits the Griz have enjoyed from a deal that initially netted them Kwame Brown's $9.1 million expiring contract, Javaris Crittenton, the rights to Marc Gasol and two first-round picks (2008 and 2010).

Memphis hasn't been over the salary cap since Gasol left. The Griz had enough cap space to absorb Brewer's salary ($2.7 million). Memphis also was able to send Utah an unencumbered 2011 first-round pick because Memphis sent Crittenton to Washington to reclaim the pick it originally surrendered to get Juan Carlos Navarro in 2007.

What the Griz have -- for better or worse -- is a list of NBA transactions that would make your head spin.

The trade's immediate impact gave the Griz Pau Gasol's younger brother, Marc. He's a top-10 NBA center with a bright future. Left in the wake of that deal was the Grizzlies' ability to:

Sign Iranian center Hamed Haddadi.

Draft Darrell Arthur with the Lakers' 2008 first-round pick.

Make a trade with Houston for Steve Francis (who was waived without putting on a Griz uniform) and receive a 2009 second-round pick that was used on Sam Young.

Do a three-way deal with Orlando and Houston that netted a 2009 first-round pick that was used on DeMarre Carroll.

Absorb Zach Randolph's contract in a trade with the L.A. Clippers.

Absorb Steven Hunter's contract and receive Denver's 2010 first-round pick.

Facilitate a transaction between Dallas and Toronto. They received Jerry Stackhouse from Dallas (buying out his contract the next day) and Toronto's unprotected second-round selection in 2016.

[Yisman]

It was a good trade for Memphis, like I was saying. Marc Gasol provided much better value than Pau, plus the picks.

The Garnett trade was a good trade for Minnesota.

Being down on Jefferson now is unfair, because it's obviously different after the knee injuries than before the trade, when he was regarded as a very valuable commodity.

[Barry the Baptist]

I don't wanna turn this into a debate about the Gasol trade so it's my last comment about it. It essentially helped the Lakers win another title and get to a finals. It's certainly up for debate if the Lakers win a title w/o Pau. Memphis may have gotten some decent players out of the deal but until they compete for a title it's still going to be a lopsided deal. The Griz still haven't made the playoffs this year.

[kbgreen]

It was a good trade for Memphis, like I was saying. Marc Gasol provided much better value than Pau, plus the picks.

The Garnett trade was a good trade for Minnesota.

Being down on Jefferson now is unfair, because it's obviously different after the knee injuries than before the trade, when he was regarded as a very valuable commodity.

I just do not think he is elite. So i guess I should not have said the Celtics gave up "nothing" just that I thought those trades were about equal in value for a star.

I think we agree on this

[kbgreen]

I don't wanna turn this into a debate about the Gasol trade so it's my last comment about it. It essentially helped the Lakers win another title and get to a finals. It's certainly up for debate if the Lakers win a title w/o Pau. Memphis may have gotten some decent players out of the deal but until they compete for a title it's still going to be a lopsided deal. The Griz still haven't made the playoffs this year.

It's not like Memphis was going to win a title with Pau Gasol.

[Yisman]

It essentially helped the Lakers win another title and get to a finals. It's certainly up for debate if the Lakers win a title w/o Pau.

They likely would not have.

Memphis may have gotten some decent players out of the deal but until they compete for a title it's still going to be a lopsided deal.

So because the Lakers won a title and the Grizzlies didn't, it means it's a lopsided deal? That makes no sense at all.

Some decent players? They got major cap relief, one of the top centers in the NBA, and two first round picks.

There is no question that they are better off now, having made the deal. The only argument to knock it was the belief that they could have done better, but they did well for themselves with that trade.

How did they do with Pau there? I'll tell you.

His last two seasons there they went 22-60 and were among the worst five teams in the NBA. Now? They're a .500 team. It wasn't solely because of that trade, but it goes a long way towards proving that the trade helped their team. They could be over the cap now and having another bad season, or they could be under and competing for a playoff spot. I think I know which one they'd prefer.

[Antoni]

All the guys that were screaming not fair at the Gasol deal are pretty much backtracking now. That includes Poppovich, Karl, Nash, and Simmons. Obviously a bunch of people didn't understand Memphis' situation and a bunch still don't. When you're starting from scratch like they were you don't want someone else's 3rd option or 6th man which is what everyone else was offering. The Lakers offer was clearly the best one and has worked out great for both teams, for reasons Yisman already stated. They still have our #1 pick for this year's draft. Funny how everyone wants to cry about the Lakers but where is the outrage on Jamison? The Wizards already bought out Ilgauskus' contract as expected and he is probably going to sign back with the Cavs. That means they essentially got Antawn Jamison and Sebestian Telfair for ONE first rounder. The Lakers sent two first rounders, Kwame's expiring, and a dominant young big.

[nyjunc]

The bottom line is that they've been better than Clemson this season and there's no question about it. You wouldn't admit it even if you were scared of Duke going deep into the tournament.

You keep saying it's a down year for college basketball, but now you say Duke doesn't have any shot at the FF? Of course they have a shot. It's more likely that they don't make it there, but that applies to every team, really.



The idea was that the physical tools were there and they were hoping to develop his offensive game.



Not true at all. Some people felt at the time Pau was a gift, but Marc Gasol has been very good and is a big part of Memphis's success. Could Wallace have landed a better deal? Probably, but saying he gave Gasol away for nothing couldn't be more wrong.

They got Marc, one of the top centers in the game now (just turned 25), two first round picks, and expiring contracts.



A ring he had nothing to do with. You don't get credit for a championship ring unless you actually contributed in some way to it.

Obviously I think they have been better than Clemson if I think they have a shot at a 1 seed.

As bad as this year is in CBB(and it's putrid) I don't see how this flawed duke team can make a FF run. Let them prove me wrong.

I would definitely admit being scared of duke making a run. I despise duke and obviously I'm biased but I would admit to being scared they'd make a FF run.

[Jetfanmack]

Obviously I think they have been better than Clemson if I think they have a shot at a 1 seed.

As bad as this year is in CBB(and it's putrid) I don't see how this flawed duke team can make a FF run. Let them prove me wrong.

I would definitely admit being scared of duke making a run. I despise duke and obviously I'm biased but I would admit to being scared they'd make a FF run.

Here's the case for Duke: they've taken care of business all year, as you say, and they'll probably have teams like that until the Sweet 16 or Elite 8. I think they get that far just because those teams can't beat them until that point.

[nyjunc]

Here's the case for Duke: they've taken care of business all year, as you say, and they'll probably have teams like that until the Sweet 16 or Elite 8. I think they get that far just because those teams can't beat them until that point.

They also aren't very good away from home. they won't be playing road games but they won't be in Cameron either. duke does this just about every year, they tantalize a bit making people believe in them then they fall flat in the tourney. I won't believe it until I see it.

[Barry the Baptist]

Hey Junc... I think you might like this...

It'll take twenty minutes but it's good. I was about 15 minutes in and got distracted. I'll have to retry when I have the time.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

[nyjunc]

there's just not enough time, I got 140 just throwing names out there going through each conf in my head but there's not enough time.

[Jetfanmack]

Welcome back to the bubble, Notre Dame!

And Kentucky goes down again!

[GQMartin]

A bunch of my former roommates went up to Cuse to watch the game...I'm stuck at work.

/jealous

[Jetfanmack]

Is Cuse playing for #1 tonight?

[Theo Huxtable]

I like how the only thing the Gators needed to do to solidify their sport in the tournament was beat GEORGIA, but they lose by two.
I think theyre RIGHT on the bubble now, they need a win against Vandy or Kentucky now...

[HackettStillSux]

My God, The Nova/Syracuse game just went from HUGE to ENORMOUS! With BOTh Kansas and Kentucky going down, this game is now potentially for BOTH The Big East title AND a #1 SEED!!!

[Penning10toColes]

My God, The Nova/Syracuse game just went from HUGE to ENORMOUS! With BOTh Kansas and Kentucky going down, this game is now potentially for BOTH The Big East title AND a #1 SEED!!!
Aren't Kansas and Kentucky still in great shape for a #1 seed? Do you mean potentially for the overall #1 seed?

[Yisman]

Tight game.

King has already airballed two 3s.

[nyjetsrule]

All you can ask for is a good game tonight. It's kind of a shame neither team can hit the broad side of the barn with their jumpshots though.

Can't wait till Rautins drills his first three the dome is going to explode!

[Yisman]

hehe, they just said Tennessee beat #2 Kentucky in double OT in the ACC

[kbgreen]

Aren't Kansas and Kentucky still in great shape for a #1 seed? Do you mean potentially for the overall #1 seed?

Yes they are, and probably one of those two will be the overall #1 seed.
I think Nova and SU should be #1's but only one of them will be. I would say Purdue as a #1 but the an injury really hurt them! Big game for them tomorrow!

[flajetfan]

right now you got to think the #1 seeds are:kentucky kansas 'cuse and duke.

[HackettStillSux]

Jay Wright picked the PERFECT night to have the worst coached game of his career, didn't he? I'm so furious with this man right now, I can't stand the sight of him.

if only he spent as much effort in big game preparation as he does in picking out his suits.

[HackettStillSux]

Someone please read the below points and tell me why I SHOULDN'T be furious at Jay Wright right now.

1) You are going against one of the worst foul-committing teams in the Big East. Will someone please explaing to me why you would have your team chuck up almost 30 three pointers, thus drawing only FOURTEEN personal fouls for the entire game?

2) There is a player on the opposition who literally shoots 32% from the foul line. You go 11 players deep. Can someone please explain why he isn't being fould the SECOND the ball makes contact with his hands?

3) There is a reason why Coach K let Taylor King transfer... the guy FLAT OUT SUCKS. How many 30 foot jumpers are you going to allow this guy to shoot and miss until you start benching his ass in favor of players with legitinate talent?

Jay Wright humiliated the entire Villanova community tonight. I am absolutely disgusted with him.

[GQMartin]

Good Win for Cuse.

You're right that King guy sucks.

[HackettStillSux]

Good Win for Cuse.

You're right that King guy sucks.

You can't make shit like this up. Taylor King is 6-6 230lbs.

In 17 Minutes, he shot 2-7 from the field. All 7 shots were three pointers. He had ONE offensive rebound.

[kbgreen]

Someone please read the below points and tell me why I SHOULDN'T be furious at Jay Wright right now.

1) You are going against one of the worst foul-committing teams in the Big East. Will someone please explaing to me why you would have your team chuck up almost 30 three pointers, thus drawing only FOURTEEN personal fouls for the entire game?

2) There is a player on the opposition who literally shoots 32% from the foul line. You go 11 players deep. Can someone please explain why he isn't being fould the SECOND the ball makes contact with his hands?

3) There is a reason why Coach K let Taylor King transfer... the guy FLAT OUT SUCKS. How many 30 foot jumpers are you going to allow this guy to shoot and miss until you start benching his ass in favor of players with legitinate talent?

Jay Wright humiliated the entire Villanova community tonight. I am absolutely disgusted with him.

I think there were a bunch of no calls today (both ways)! I was suprised because lately SU has gotten a ton of fouls called on them. They let them play tonight so SU would probably been allright foul wise.

I don't think "hack Arinse" would have worked because SU is so much bigger inside. Even though you are deep - your not deep enough for your backups to have sucess with SU's front line. They exploited Nova inside tonight with your starters in there.

I was not impressed with King either. He chucks up alot of really deep contested shots. Which is not a good strategy against a team that can run like SU.

I don't think Wright was your problem tonight. You got beat on the boards and on the break. Places where the coach can scream his head off and if the guys don't put the effort in he's powerless to fix it.

[HackettStillSux]

I think there were a bunch of no calls today (both ways)! I was suprised because lately SU has gotten a ton of fouls called on them. They let them play tonight so SU would probably been allright foul wise.

I don't think "hack Arinse" would have worked because SU is so much bigger inside. Even though you are deep - your not deep enough for your backups to have sucess with SU's front line. They exploited Nova inside tonight with your starters in there.

I was not impressed with King either. He chucks up alot of really deep contested shots. Which is not a good strategy against a team that can run like SU.

I don't think Wright was your problem tonight. You got beat on the boards and on the break. Places where the coach can scream his head off and if the guys don't put the effort in he's powerless to fix it.



We got beat on the boards beacuse our largest plaer took all 7 FG attempts from beyond the arc! You don't think that had ANYTHING to do with the fact that he had ONE offensive rebound? You don't think Wright should be held accountable for that?

[Jetfanmack]

We still have a top 10 team. Relax. We lost because we get zero production from our small forwards, our big men are undersized and can get outmuscled, and the guys on our team who are billed as shooters haven't been able to shoot lately.

Wright gives the players on offense freedom to take shots whenever. King was billed as an outside shooter, and he's always been a good outside shooter. They just haven't been falling lately, and it's been a while. He shouldn't be shooting as often as he is, but he is who he is.

We played a top 4 team in the nation at their place in their most hyped game of the season. It was a tough spot. We got embarrassed on the glass with Cuse getting every offensive rebound it wanted and easy shots all the time on defense, but there's still time to fix this. It's getting late though.

I'm pumped about Yarou though.

[SyracuseJet]

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

This had to be said.

[nyjunc]

Yes they are, and probably one of those two will be the overall #1 seed.
I think Nova and SU should be #1's but only one of them will be. I would say Purdue as a #1 but the an injury really hurt them! Big game for them tomorrow!

Nova might be playing their way to a 3 seed if this keeps up. As of today w/ the Purdue injury the 4 #1s would be KU, UK, SU and unfortunately duke.



Congrats 'Cuse fans, you are taking care of business. Barring a complete collapse you are locked into a 1 seed(at this point you probably could have a complete collapse and get a 1 seed).


I am very disappointed in the way 'Nova has been playing lately. Is it just a little slump? or is it a telling sign for the Tourney? I don't know but right now you can't feel too confident about them though there is still plenty of time to get things straight.

[nyjunc]

Not that anyone does or should care about a bad heels team but they finally got a W at Wake Forest yesterday. John henson was amazing, showing flashes of brilliance that we will hopefully see for a few years to come. leslie McDonald also had his best game and the Heels played great D throughout and pulled away for the W. If we only had about 2-3 more of those types of games in ACC play we'd be talking about the NCAAs. Oh well, my hope is they can play their best in the ACC Tourney and steal a spot.

[kbgreen]

Nova might be playing their way to a 3 seed if this keeps up. As of today w/ the Purdue injury the 4 #1s would be KU, UK, SU and unfortunately duke.



Congrats 'Cuse fans, you are taking care of business. Barring a complete collapse you are locked into a 1 seed(at this point you probably could have a complete collapse and get a 1 seed).


I am very disappointed in the way 'Nova has been playing lately. Is it just a little slump? or is it a telling sign for the Tourney? I don't know but right now you can't feel too confident about them though there is still plenty of time to get things straight.

I think Nova is a very good team. They do not match up well against SU and that was obvious from the way we got to the offensive boards on them. But their guards can match up with anyone. After tonight, they should end up a 2 seed IMO but they will now have to play well over the next two weeks to get it.

[GQMartin]

Still concerned about Wes Johnson. At this point Joseph should be starting over him so he can get healthy.

[kbgreen]

Still concerned about Wes Johnson. At this point Joseph should be starting over him so he can get healthy.

They mentioned Jim B was considering doing that for the big east tourney! I think now that we are past Nova that we can sit him for the last two.

[Jetfanmack]

I think Nova is a very good team. They do not match up well against SU and that was obvious from the way we got to the offensive boards on them. But their guards can match up with anyone. After tonight, they should end up a 2 seed IMO but they will now have to play well over the next two weeks to get it.

It's funny because we used to match up wonderfully against you. But now your defense is much better, and we couldn't figure out what to do with it. We're missing a guy in the post who knows what he's doing with the ball every time like Cunningham did for us last year.

I'm not happy with how Nova has played lately. Rebounding against big teams has now become an issue, and the guys who are supposed to be our shooters can't shoot. The next two games are both tough games at a desperate Cincinnati team and at home against West Virginia, a team that will want to crash the boards even harder than Cuse. It will be telling how Nova bounces back.

I'm very encouraged by the play of Yarou though. I think Nova is going to go bigger the rest of the way, which they should. Yarou just needs to keep getting experience, and we have a much more conventional lineup that will work against more teams.

[Jetfanmack]

I think Nova is a very good team. They do not match up well against SU and that was obvious from the way we got to the offensive boards on them. But their guards can match up with anyone. After tonight, they should end up a 2 seed IMO but they will now have to play well over the next two weeks to get it.

It's funny because we used to match up wonderfully against you. But now your defense is much better, and we couldn't figure out what to do with it. We're missing a guy in the post who knows what he's doing with the ball every time like Cunningham did for us last year.

I'm not happy with how Nova has played lately. Rebounding against big teams has now become an issue, and the guys who are supposed to be our shooters can't shoot. The next two games are both tough games at a desperate Cincinnati team and at home against West Virginia, a team that will want to crash the boards even harder than Cuse. It will be telling how Nova bounces back.

I'm very encouraged by the play of Yarou though. I think Nova is going to go bigger the rest of the way, which they should. Yarou just needs to keep getting experience, and we have a much more conventional lineup that will work against more teams.

Remember, Nova got blasted mid-February at WVU last year and Louisville embarrassed Nova in the BET. There's plenty of talent on this team, and they're as battle tested as any team in the nation.

Nova has played SIX games on the road against top 25 teams in the RPI. SIX!

So while on paper, the strength of schedule for Villanova doesn't look good, no team has played as many tough road games.

GTown has the #1 SOS. They have three such games. UConn is #2, they have 2 such games so far.

The closest I can find is Kansas, who has 5. Duke has 2. Kentucky has 1. West Virginia has 2. Syracuse has 2.

Against top 25 teams, Nova played 6 road games and 1 home game. They'll get one more home game against West Virginia, hopefully Nova wins that.

But there are so many college basketball teams that can't win on the road or are not road tested at all. Come tournament time, I hope all this experience is helpful.

[Yisman]

Purdue's home loss to Michigan State should cost them a #1 seed barring a deep run into the Big Ten Tournament, which I find unlikely.

I think it's Kansas, Syracuse, Kentucky, and Duke right now.

[Penning10toColes]

Right now, but I could see Nova beating out Duke with a really good tourney run. Kansas State very much in the picture as well.

Duke does nothing for me this year...If they're a top 5 team it must be a pretty weak year overall.

[Yisman]

Right now, but I could see Nova beating out Duke with a really good tourney run.

Well, yeah. If Duke gets eliminated early and a top contender goes deep (Purdue, Villanova, Kansas State), that could definitely happen.

But I think it's more likely than not that Duke gets a #1 seed.

[nyjunc]

I think Nova is a very good team. They do not match up well against SU and that was obvious from the way we got to the offensive boards on them. But their guards can match up with anyone. After tonight, they should end up a 2 seed IMO but they will now have to play well over the next two weeks to get it.

I think 'Nova is a good team as well, I think they have the potential top be a Championship caliber team but as of now I think they are a 3 seed. They can play their way itno a 2 easily and even play their way to a 1 but the way they have been playing it's not looking good.


So while on paper, the strength of schedule for Villanova doesn't look good, no team has played as many tough road games.

GTown has the #1 SOS. They have three such games. UConn is #2, they have 2 such games so far.

The closest I can find is Kansas, who has 5. Duke has 2. Kentucky has 1. West Virginia has 2. Syracuse has 2.

Against top 25 teams, Nova played 6 road games and 1 home game. They'll get one more home game against West Virginia, hopefully Nova wins that.

But there are so many college basketball teams that can't win on the road or are not road tested at all. Come tournament time, I hope all this experience is helpful.

'Nova has played:

at temple: loss
at GU: loss
at WVU: win
at Pitt: loss
at SU: loss

playing tough road games is one thing but they need to win more than 1 of 5 and the one they won was against a vastly overrated WVU team(one they lost was to an overrated Pitt team).

I would never give up on this 'Nova team BUT looking back they haven't really performed like a top 10 team all year. I think they have the coaching, they have the experience in the backcourt but it's going to be tough.

Purdue's home loss to Michigan State should cost them a #1 seed barring a deep run into the Big Ten Tournament, which I find unlikely.

I think it's Kansas, Syracuse, Kentucky, and Duke right now.

Once Hummell went down I think that pretty much took them out.

Right now, but I could see Nova beating out Duke with a really good tourney run. Kansas State very much in the picture as well.

Duke does nothing for me this year...If they're a top 5 team it must be a pretty weak year overall.

duke and 'Nova are pretty similar except duke had a better run in the non conference. In a normal year neither would be discussed for a #1 right now but this year duke is deserving as of right now w/ Purdue and 'Nova falling. I think if the brackets came out today 'Nova would drop to a 3 based on recent play and overall resume.

[HackettStillSux]

I would never give up on this 'Nova team BUT looking back they haven't really performed like a top 10 team all year. I think they have the coaching, they have the experience in the backcourt but it's going to be tough.



They better not have the same quality of coaching they had against Syracuse. Again, Wright has done a good job this year, but he picked a HELL of a time to have the worst-coached game of his career.

[HackettStillSux]

duke and 'Nova are pretty similar except duke had a better run in the non conference. In a normal year neither would be discussed for a #1 right now but this year duke is deserving as of right now w/ Purdue and 'Nova falling. I think if the brackets came out today 'Nova would drop to a 3 based on recent play and overall resume.

The biggest difference between Duke and Villanova is that Villanova has had far superior quality of opposition.

[nyjunc]

The biggest difference between Duke and Villanova is that Villanova has had far superior quality of opposition.

Not really, VU's non conf was a joke and in conf they faced SU which duke hasn't faced a team like that but they didn't face any other big time teams. They are pretty close. You haven't faced an incredibly difficult sched and neither has duke.

[Yisman]

Speaking of UNC, how do they get blown out by FSU at home? This is some kind of run. Lost 10 of 12, with the only wins coming over North Carolina State.

The Hummel loss is a big blow for Purdue, of course. He's going to visit a doctor in Indianapolis and get an opinion on the knee injury and how serious it is. No word yet on whether it involves torn ligaments.

Here's a blog entry (To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.) from a few minutes ago.



Their chances for a #1 seed are very slim now. Right now my prediction would be Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and Syracuse.



Once Hummell went down I think that pretty much took them out.


It depended on how they played without Hummel. I was assuming they wouldn't play as well, and thus their play in the final two weeks would not be good enough to merit a #1 seed. Had they beaten Michigan State, won the final two games of the regular season (not tough games), and not been a complete embarrassment in the Big Ten tournament, they would've gotten the #1 seed, IMO.

[nyjunc]

It depended on how they played without Hummel. I was assuming they wouldn't play as well, and thus their play in the final two weeks would not be good enough to merit a #1 seed. Had they beaten Michigan State, won the final two games of the regular season (not tough games), and not been a complete embarrassment in the Big Ten tournament, they would've gotten the #1 seed, IMO.

I think we are on the same page in regards to Purdue. It's been a friendlier year btw us in the CBB thread this year:grin:



SU is #1 in the AP poll- congrats 'cuse fans.

[kbgreen]

I think we are on the same page in regards to Purdue. It's been a friendlier year btw us in the CBB thread this year:grin:



SU is #1 in the AP poll- congrats 'cuse fans.

Thanks, first time since like 89! They got #1 in the espn poll now too.

But as Jimmy B said "It won't mean a thing, we still have a lot of games we have to win" I hope it helps these kids keep focused!

SU has a long way to go!

[MParty7441]

Any chance SU can repeat the beating they put on SJU last yr, tomorrow night? I hope it happens!!

[Yisman]

29 points? Could happen. Last year the game was at St. John's.

I think we are on the same page in regards to Purdue. It's been a friendlier year btw us in the CBB thread this year:grin:

I guess. I think the Big East is better than the Big Ten this year, though. :wink:

[kbgreen]

Any chance SU can repeat the beating they put on SJU last yr, tomorrow night? I hope it happens!!

My wife went to St Johns and she was sore after that game! So I hope SU wins by 15 but does not rub it in!

[xjets2002x]

Any chance SU can repeat the beating they put on SJU last yr, tomorrow night? I hope it happens!!

I like the team, I just can't stand the coach. I feel dirty rooting against these kids, but if it means a real coach with an opportunity to win some games next year and restore the program with a veteran roster, so be it. That Marquette loss was New Jersey Nets-esque. An early exit in the Big East tourney would do wonders for that program.

-X-

[SyracuseJet]

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This had to be said.

filler

filler

[Yisman]

filler

filler

if you want to make sure everyone sees the videos you post, you can link to them in your signature.

[MParty7441]

I hope Cuse beats them by 40 tomorrow, then Depaul beats them by 1. In the BE tourney, they'll end up winning 4 games and that will save Norm's job. Watch it happen.

[SyracuseJet]

if you want to make sure everyone sees the videos you post, you can link to them in your signature.

I don't care who sees it. It's my response. I can't sing the fight song on a forum....but youtube can. :up:

[Yisman]

Syracuse blows out St. John's.

Florida falls just short against Vanderbilt.

Villanova trying to hold off Cincinnati, which went on a big run to make the game close in the final minutes.


Redding with a lucky three that bounced high off the rim and back in.

That followed a silly foul by Stephenson and two made FTs for 'nova. It was 66-65 before that.

[Yisman]

Villanova holds on.

They're at 13-4, with WVU at 12-5.

So the game on Saturday would decide who finishes second in the conference I think (if WV wins, they split hth, and then it would go to how they did against the #4 team, I think), with the loser third.

[MParty7441]

Good to see SJU get blown out.

[kbgreen]

Good to see SJU get blown out.

Sloppy game, I was happy to see SU pull there starters with a couple of minutes left because it was one of those games where players were getting hurt.

I hope St John's gets rid of Norm roberts. The announcers were saying that he had the same record last year and stayed so he should be safe for now. I was like what, don't they see these players are not getting better? They were saying that he gets "good efforts out of the players and that they were close in a bunch of games". Hey if the players are trying than they should be getting better and they are not so the coaches are not reaching them in a way benefiting their progress. To me that screams it's time for change

[Yisman]

Sloppy game, I was happy to see SU pull there starters with a couple of minutes left because it was one of those games where players were getting hurt.

I hope St John's gets rid of Norm roberts. The announcers were saying that he had the same record last year and stayed so he should be safe for now. I was like what, don't they see these players are not getting better? They were saying that he gets "good efforts out of the players and that they were close in a bunch of games". Hey if the players are trying than they should be getting better and they are not so the coaches are not reaching them in a way benefiting their progress. To me that screams it's time for change


I have no idea how the guy got the Saint John's job to begin with, let alone how he keeps it.

He was a terrible coach at Queens College and that's Division II.

He's not a good recruiter. I have no idea what he has going for him.

The days of Fran Fraschilla and Lou Carnesecca seem like a long time ago.

[MParty7441]

Sloppy game, I was happy to see SU pull there starters with a couple of minutes left because it was one of those games where players were getting hurt.

I hope St John's gets rid of Norm roberts. The announcers were saying that he had the same record last year and stayed so he should be safe for now. I was like what, don't they see these players are not getting better? They were saying that he gets "good efforts out of the players and that they were close in a bunch of games". Hey if the players are trying than they should be getting better and they are not so the coaches are not reaching them in a way benefiting their progress. To me that screams it's time for change

Haha man, you said it. I post on a SJU board and they make a chat during game and ppl were flipping over some of the comments the announcers were making. There was one comment in particular where I believe he said something along the lines of "They're a well taught group" or some shit like that. This guy is the WORST coach ever. I've watched a high majority of the games this year and this team is just clueless. It's so sad, if they don't get rid of him after this season I honestly don't think I'll watch anymore b/c it's obvious they just dont care about winning.

[nyjunc]

2 in a row for the heels, unbelievably their first 2 game win streak since Decmeber. It was a special night where the program became the 2nd program to reach 2,000 wins and it was also Senior night. It hasn't been a great year for Ginyard and Thompson but they ended their careers on a good note at the Dean dome. I didn't realize this but Roy is now 22-0 all time in senior day games.

This season has been a terrible one but a win Saturday night at duke(especially if duke loses tonight to MD) would really take some of the bad taste off this season and w/ 3 wins in a row I'd have some hope in the ACC Tourney.

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[Barry the Baptist]

The good news for the bigger conferences is that there don't appear to be alot of bubble teams from the Mids this year. Regardless of what Fraudardi says I refuse to think that UNLV and SDSU are in the field.

The A-10 is a pretty good bubble conference I think Richmond, Xavier and Temple are in but they have 4 other teams solidly on the bubble. I have a hard time thinking 4 at learge but if somebody like Saint Louis won the tourney I think the A-10 gets 4.

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CUSA has shown to be better then the one team league it usually is. Utep is in but Memphis, UAB have a legit shot. In fact I'd be shocked at 23-5 (as I write this) if UAB did not get in.

The Missouri Valley I think has 1 lock in NIU. Wichita St and Ill St are close but neither have a stellar resume.

The MWC could get 4 which would be a coup for us if we got more then the Pac 10. I think it'd going to be a 3 bid league. As far as who gets the nod with BYU and New Mexico could come down to who does better in the conferene tourney. It's on our home floor and as long as we don't lose to Wyoming on Sat we'll be teh 3 seed and avoid Utah and SDSU (the two teams who give us the most trouble) until the finals. I'd love Colorado State (who we just beat by 31) and BYU (who we blew out as well) in the first two rounds.

St Mary's and Portland are on the bubble, St May's has the win over San Diego State but has lost to Gonzaga twice as well as Vanderbilt and USC. I have to think the Gaels are dangerously close to getting in but another loss to Gonzaga (especially if it was a blowout) could keep them out. They've beaten 3 other bubble teams in Utah St, New Mexico State and SDSU.

[nyjunc]

Could the heels make it if they win Saturday then make the ACC Final? They would be 20-15 overall w/ wins over MSU, OSU, at Wake and at duke. would that be enough? In a normal year it wouldn't be this weak year could it be? still probably not but you never know.

[Barry the Baptist]

Could the heels make it if they win Saturday then make the ACC Final? They would be 20-15 overall w/ wins over MSU, OSU, at Wake and at duke. would that be enough? In a normal year it wouldn't be this weak year could it be? still probably not but you never know.

I think they can, those last 10 go a long way. In a weak year a hot Carolina team woudl almost have to get a nod.

[kbgreen]

I think they can, those last 10 go a long way. In a weak year a hot Carolina team woudl almost have to get a nod.

Actually, they changed the weight that the last ten games will have in making the decision. I heard them talking to the head of the selection comittee on the radio and he said they will be looking at the team records as a whole and not looking at portions of it more than others like they had in the past.

Now as for UNC if they make it to 20-15 IMO they would be in based on those quality wins and being UNC.

[Jetfanmack]

Speaking of UAB, today they'll decide if they want to be in the tournament or not. Home game against Memphis. Win, and they should be a lock. Lose, and they'll be sweating a lot in the conference tournament.

[Yisman]

UConn up three at the half. They need this one, especially with Harangody still being out (it was thought he might be able to come back today).