How does Mario fit in our 3-4?

[SettlerDawg]

If there are no trades in the top 4, the Texans will probably take Bush, NO will take Ferguson, and Tenn. will take Leinart. That leaves us with Mario Williams who is a borderline elite player coming into the league. However, he won't be able to produce, like he is able to, if he plays as a 3-4 end (at least from my understanding). Also, we recently signed Von Olhoffen(sp?) to play as a 3-4de. Does Mario split time with Von Olhoffen is we take him? How do we utilize Mario if we take him? Do we stay in a 3-4?

[King Koopa]

olb pass rusher( see joey porter, shawn merriman, etc.)...that's the only way we take him...if our FO/CS feels he could be a potentially dominating olb in the 3-4

[kevin68]

Von Ohlhoffen could switch to NT, or like NYJets83 said the Jets use Williams as the OLB. Another possibility is when we switch to 4-3 for a few plays, Williams could be the DE. But I think Willimas can be productive as a 3-4 DE, because of his size and athletic abilities.
BTW: I heard Mangini say that the Jets qwill play the formation which he thinks gives them the best chance to win. I never heard him say that 3-4- will be the usual defense. Am I wrong with that?

[FITM]

Von Ohlhoffen could switch to NT, or like NYJets83 said the Jets use Williams as the OLB. Another possibility is when we switch to 4-3 for a few plays, Williams could be the DE. But I think Willimas can be productive as a 3-4 DE, because of his size and athletic abilities.
BTW: I heard Mangini say that the Jets qwill play the formation which he thinks gives them the best chance to win. I never heard him say that 3-4- will be the usual defense. Am I wrong with that?

If we use Williams at 3-4 end it would be dumb to bench D-Rob for that amount of time with the money he's getting.

[kevin68]

But if the Jets draft Williams, what should they do? in a 4-3 Von Olhoffen could play DT beside of D-Rob, and they won't draft Williams to bench him either.
What is your opinion on this topic FITM?

[Green Hurricane]

If the Jets take Mario, absolutely they should stay in a 34. Switching to a 43 would severely limit three of our better young players, Vilma, Drob, and Mario (if we pick him). Williams has the size and ability to be a very good 34 End, which is no doubt where he'd play, but he's a phenom of a 43 end, I'd hate to waste that.

[MParty7441]

Vonny will play NT. Also Super Mario is 6-7 260 something. He is a monster and is strong and fast. He and Vernon Davis are the two best prospects IMO.

[FITM]

But if the Jets draft Williams, what should they do? in a 4-3 Von Olhoffen could play DT beside of D-Rob, and they won't draft Williams to bench him either.
What is your opinion on this topic FITM?

Well, if we switch to 3-4, Vilma will be less effective which I hate, but a 3-4 is better for this team. If 3-4 is the case, we move Vonny to NT, D-Rob to RE and draft Williams for OLB because in this case we don't really have anyone else to be an effective OLB in a 3-4. Who knows though, maybe D-Rob will finally settle in playing at the end rather than inside. I was never for drafting D-Rob anyway.

[Green Hurricane]

Vonny will play NT. Also Super Mario is 6-7 260 something. He is a monster and is strong and fast. He and Vernon Davis are the two best prospects IMO.
Mario's 295 pounds. He's a big ole boy.

[Rambo13]

The only way we should take Mario is if he is going to play OLB because 3-4 ends just aren't that important. In a 3-4 end you are looking more for a space occupier than a pass rusher. That is something you can get later in the draft. Pass rushers are where the money's at, and if Mario Williams can't rush from OLB and cover a TE or receiver we should go with someone else like Vernon Davis.

[mangini4life]

Rambo,

You really think Richard Seymour hasn't been important to the Patriots? I've heard people say Mario is a combo of Seymour and Peppers. Not quite as quick as Peppers, and not quite as strong as Seymour, but stronger than Peppers and faster than Seymour.

Mario Williams is a STUD DL prospect, and will be a tremendous addition to whichever team selects him. I actaully like his versatility; him being able to play DE in a 3-4 and 4-3 makes him even more valuable, like Shaun Ellis.

As for a 6'7" 295 lb person playing LB, I cannot imagine any team lining him up as an OLB unless it is for less than 5% of plays; I just don't think he has the cover skills.

[Rambo13]

Rambo,

You really think Richard Seymour hasn't been important to the Patriots? I've heard people say Mario is a combo of Seymour and Peppers. Not quite as quick as Peppers, and not quite as strong as Seymour, but stronger than Peppers and faster than Seymour.

Mario Williams is a STUD DL prospect, and will be a tremendous addition to whichever team selects him. I actaully like his versatility; him being able to play DE in a 3-4 and 4-3 makes him even more valuable, like Shaun Ellis.

As for a 6'7" 295 lb person playing LB, I cannot imagine any team lining him up as an OLB unless it is for less than 5% of plays; I just don't think he has the cover skills.

I think Seymour is very important, but here is where my point comes in. Seymour, and most 3-4 DEs were converted Defensive Tackles. Seymour is also one of the few successful 1st round 3-4 ends. We have Kimo and Ellis at end. We don't have a pressing need for another one. In my opinion it would be a waste of Mario's talent to stick him on a 3-4 line.

[Johnny4]

One of the best things about Belicheck's D is that they can switch from 4-3 to 3-4. Kimo is 37 years old, he is a one year stop gap player.Two years tops. He would be a great guy to help Mario learn the position in the NFL. There are very few 4 down lineman in the NfL, players are constantly rotated. It would be the perfect way to break the kid in without putting too much pressure on him.

[1028]

A 300 pound LB? :rofl:

Im not saying its impossible, but its a funny thought :lol:

[1028]

Wow this is weird, how was my above post edited by MSUJet?!1 Not just that, but a year and an hour before I posted it?? :lol:

[BIG COUNTRY]

Wow this is weird, how was my above post edited by MSUJet?!1 Not just that, but a year and an hour before I posted it?? :lol:
Very strange, can that be explained?

Anyways I think Mario would be an OLB rushing linebacker like Merriman. He could still play end though as he is a big fella, also i think Vilma will be effective in the 3-4 as it gives linebackers more room to operate, that helps Vilma out, I think he is big enough to take the load.

[vilmaisabeast]

[QUOTE=Johnny4 Kimo is 37 years old,
Kimos 35

[vilmaisabeast]

Kimo is 37 years old

Kimo isnt 37 he is 35

[Jonathan_Vilma]

Williams would be an absolute waste as a 3-4 end for the simple fact that he would dominate so much more in a 4-3. Unless he's a linebacker I really don't see why you'd waste money on him to play end. He's a speedster in a big guys body. He doesn't bullrush and despite his bench reps I really don't think he has the lower body strength to put up with a big tackle and runningback and/or guard on every given play.

3-4 ends need to be big guys based around strength. Williams just happens to be huge yet uses his speed to navigate.

[PinPointPenning10]

If the Jets take Mario, absolutely they should stay in a 34. Switching to a 43 would severely limit three of our better young players, Vilma, Drob, and Mario (if we pick him). Williams has the size and ability to be a very good 34 End, which is no doubt where he'd play, but he's a phenom of a 43 end, I'd hate to waste that.

Don't you mean that the other way around. We stay in a 4-3, because switching to a 3-4 would limit Vilma, D-Rob, and Mario.

If we draft Mario, I would stay in a 4-3 and have our front 7 be

DE: Ellis, Mario
DT: D-Rob, Kimo
OLB: Hobson, Barton
MLB: Vilma

If we're going to a 3-4 and want to draft a defensive player, then I'd take Hawk. So we'd have

DE: Ellis, Kimo
DT: D-Rob (Kimo will help him out at NT)
OLB: Hawk, Barton
MLB: Vilma, Hobson

The first option is much better, as Vilma would be much better in a 4-3 and D-Rob isn't good enough to play NT.

[DonnieIsTheKing]

Mario played a 3-4 end in college so that's really the only spot he could go into...

[Green Hurricane]

Don't you mean that the other way around. We stay in a 4-3, because switching to a 3-4 would limit Vilma, D-Rob, and Mario.


Duh, yeah. My bad there, case of my my fingers typing faster than I was thinking.

And NC State plays a 43, Donnie.

[Jabba the Jet]

That leaves us with Mario Williams who is a borderline elite player ...
Subtract the word "borderline" and you have it exactly right

There's nothing borderline about Super Mario, SD .... the term "elite prospect" was invented for cats like Mario Williams .... 6' 7"/295 Pound defensive end, runs in the 4.6's, and was a dominant player in college ... that's Reggie White/Bruce Smith territory as a prospect

By contrast Julius Peppers was around 280 with speed off the edge and that made him the #2 Overall Pick in the draft ... can you imagine if he was 295?

But to be fair Peppers was even faster than Mario ... I think he ran in the 4.4's or 4.5's

[SettlerDawg]

Mario played a 3-4 end in college so that's really the only spot he could go into...


If thats true I take back everything I said about Mario. If Mario can produce at his best as a 3-4 de, then I'm all for him. But if he could produce better as a 4-3 end, then I still really like him, but would rather take a different player (unless we stay in the 4-3, which does not seem to be the case).

Hey Jabba, you're right. Mario is an elite prospect. I meant borderline elite if compared to nfl players. I know you like us taking Cutler with our pick, but how would you feel about Mario?

[Green Hurricane]

If thats true I take back everything I said about Mario. If Mario can produce at his best as a 3-4 de, then I'm all for him. But if he could produce better as a 4-3 end, then I still really like him, but would rather take a different player (unless we stay in the 4-3, which does not seem to be the case).

It's not true, they played a 43 at NC st.

[Jabba the Jet]

Hey Jabba, you're right. Mario is an elite prospect. I meant borderline elite if compared to nfl players. I know you like us taking Cutler with our pick, but how would you feel about Mario?
I'm all for the idea, and here's why ....

Contrary to popular opinion the Patriots have never been an exclusive 34 defense {like the Steelers} and nor will the Jets be an exclusive 34 under Mangini

The Patriots are a BASE 34 but they fluctuate between the 34 and the 43 ... heck, occasionally they place 2 or 5 at the LOS depending upon the game plan and/or the opponent ... that's why they are so confusing for even veteran QB's like Peyton Manning and hell on neophyte QB's, because you just can't prepare for all of the different looks they will show you during the course of a game, and well disguised, with only a week to prepare

But that aside, for the most part the Pats are a 34/43 team that plays a BASE 34 {60% or better}

This is what I believe Mangini has in mind for the Jets {Maybe 50/50}, and he said as much at his introductory press conference when asked if he plans on playing the 34 or the 43 ... he said we'll use multiple fronts and the emphasis will vary depending on the opponent, whatever gives us the best chance to minimize that opponents strengths, etc. etc.

Anyhow, that's why I view Mario Williams as a PERFECT FIT for the Jets

Mario is big and strong enough to excell in the 34, yet unusually quick/fast off the edge for such a big defensive end in the 43 ... thus he can stay on the field, AT DE, as an every down player regardless of the scheme from game to game or down to down in the system Mangini has in mind, and he can EXCELL in both the 34 and the 43

Lastly, I agree with my friend GH ... I believe he can cause MORE HAVOC coming off the edge in the 43 ... GH is dead on the money ... but Mangini WILL be employing multiple fronts and Super Mario is exactly the type of player he must envision for his multiple schemes

And believe me, there are not many DE's on the planet who have the necessary skills and are perfectly constructed to dominate in both the 34 and the 43 ... usually you are one or the other, but not both

JMO

[1028]

I dont know how hed fare at 34 end...but itd be interesting to see him at LB :breakdance:

[hazmat]

No way in hell Mario Williams is going to be a linebacker. If we draft him it will be as an end in a 4-3 and/or 3-4. Anyone who says he isn't effective should just look at Richard Seymour. After Brady he's the most important player on the Pats.

[DonnieIsTheKing]

It's not true, they played a 43 at NC st.
Towards the end of the year they were listed as a 3-4 with Manny Lawson as the pass rusher... I remember watching them against Maryland and in their bowl game and when they went through the starting lineups NC State was running a 3-4.