Yankees @ Red Sox - April 20th - 22nd.

[Canadian]

Come on Yanks just get out of this inning.

But, honestly I know he makes some mistakes and I can see why some people don't like him but I am still a big fan of Torre

[Canadian]

People are reacting to this series like its the playoffs. Settle down, its one series with the Red Sox. We have plenty of time to recover. (if we lose this one)

Yeah but it's the Red Sox, that's the thing. It's called bragging rights:wink:

and trust me I react like this to every single game

[AlioTheFool]

with 1 inning left (barring extras) Ithinkmy point holds, for the series...
Red Sox Bullpen - 1.70 ERA, 2 saves... could be 3 if they hold on here
Yankees Pen - 7.74 ERA 1BS, 1 L

In all fairness, the pen can't be held at fault. They pitch every damn day, except the one guy who needs that level of work.

The fact is, Boston is just better right now. Their pitching is good enough to hold the score down enough for their offense to overcome.

The Yankees starting pitching is poor at best right now. No one can reach the 7th, and most of the time, can't even get out of the 6th. When you have multiple pitchers in the pen pitching 10+ times before you've played 20 games, you aren't going to win too many times.

[AlioTheFool]

Come on Yanks just get out of this inning.

But, honestly I know he makes some mistakes every game and I can see why some people don't like him but I am still a big fan of Torre

I fixed that for you. :wink:

[Cellar-door]

In all fairness, the pen can't be held at fault. They pitch every damn day, except the one guy who needs that level of work.

The fact is, Boston is just better right now. Their pitching is good enough to hold the score down enough for their offense to overcome.

The Yankees starting pitching is poor at best right now. No one can reach the 7th, and most of the time, can't even get out of the 6th. When you have multiple pitchers in the pen pitching 10+ times before you've played 20 games, you aren't going to win too many times.

yeah,my point wasthe Don was saying howthe red sox pen was terrible and was going to get beat up by the Yanks this weekend, while the great Yanks pen would be shutdown all weekend. The yanks pen won't be that bad all year, but w/ papelbon as the closer moving everyone else back to more comfortable roles the red sox pen is very underrated.

[Canadian]

Come on Jeter

[Canadian]

CRAP

(filler)

[Canadian]

ARod if you hit a home run I swear I will never ever boo you

[vinsjets]

ARod if you hit a home run I swear I will never ever boo you

you shouldn't boo him now... Try booing Jeter..*Fist Pump*

[Canadian]

Sigh......

[AlioTheFool]

Ah well. At least Alex didn't K.

[Canadian]

you shouldn't boo him now... Try booing Jeter..*Fist Pump*

I have never booed A-Rod, never once booed a Yankee but I was stating more as a general Yankee fan than myself

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Let "Red sox nation" enjoy their moment. We'll be back...and deep down, they know it.

[The Dark Knight]

My Red Sox Hate Before Series: 100%

My Red Sox Hate After Series: 110%

[KurtTheJetsFan]

My Red Sox Hate Before Series: 100%

My Red Sox Hate After Series: 110%

I made that transition when i found out about the Dating show they're starting on NESN.

I'm all for unity, history and a sense of togetherness as a fan of a sports team..but does anyone else find the "Red sox nation" thing alittle corny and alittle creepy?

[GreyhoundJet]

Really no big deal losing these three games. We only started one of our top 3 while they started all of their top 3. We are missing Matsui, Posada, and Damon for one game. Dissapointing: yes. Devastating: no

[LockDown24]

We pit Karstens and Wright against Beckett and Matsuzaka and were in both games till the last inning... im not worried at all

[Dirtywater]

Another great game. Yes Yanks fans, I know you're not happy with the outcome, but I think we can all admit it was a very well played series by both teams. You guys are beat up, so I don't put too much stock in it.

Anyway, I think both sides come away knowing we should both be in the thick of things come August. Let's just take care of BAL/TOR and then face off when it really counts.

Good game. :up:

[28rogerblaze51]

im not happy they lost, ut you have to admit its the same shit every year.

they win early we win late and overtake the division.

[Barry the Baptist]

It's painful and maddening. But we'll be ok. Let the sox have their moment, how quickly they forget the Boston Massacre from last year, and the many letdowns of years past courtesy of the Yanks.

I'm sure every Red Sox fan in the world would give you that 5 game sweep at Fenway for the greatest collapse in the history of sports.

It's funny watching you Yankee fans bitch and whine over every single thing Torre does. Hate to sound like Junc but I don't know how many of you guys hated him or wanted him fired when he was winning 4 out of 5 WS or when he managed what is arguably the best team in the history of baseball with a much less talented bunch. I've said it before and I'll say it again, until the Yankees get some role players they will continue to not win when it counts. I think the Yankees are built to win games in the regular season but not in the playoffs when most teams win with luck and pitching.

To be honest I think the Sox are built to win early and hope they win enough to not get bumped by a team with a late surge.

[davecrazy]

im not happy they lost, ut you have to admit its the same shit every year.

they win early we win late and overtake the division.

Then flame out and implode in the playoffs.

[Don]

Honestly, we got totally dominated by a team far better prepared to play at this point in the season. Our pitching is a big problem, and our coach is total asswipe.

However, we should not discount that Boston is a legit playoff team, and they are just playing far better than we are at this point.
Were you watching? How can you say we got totally dominated when we had leads in all three games. What we got was what any team gets when you have two minor league pitchers going against a good team.

[Don]

with 1 inning left (barring extras) Ithinkmy point holds, for the series...
Red Sox Bullpen - 1.43 ERA, 3 saves
Yankees Pen - 7.00 ERA 1BS, 1 L

Edited to reflect final stats
It does for this weekend anyway. No doubt. Total meltdown.

[Don]

Really no big deal losing these three games. We only started one of our top 3 while they started all of their top 3. We are missing Matsui, Posada, and Damon for one game. Dissapointing: yes. Devastating: no
It's always a big deal in this division to fall 4 games back. Who knows who's next to go down with some stupid injury or how many more starters we will lose (I guess we only have 2). 4 games could become 10 games.

[Don]

I'm sure every Red Sox fan in the world would give you that 5 game sweep at Fenway for the greatest collapse in the history of sports.

It's funny watching you Yankee fans bitch and whine over every single thing Torre does. Hate to sound like Junc but I don't know how many of you guys hated him or wanted him fired when he was winning 4 out of 5 WS or when he managed what is arguably the best team in the history of baseball with a much less talented bunch. I've said it before and I'll say it again, until the Yankees get some role players they will continue to not win when it counts. I think the Yankees are built to win games in the regular season but not in the playoffs when most teams win with luck and pitching.

To be honest I think the Sox are built to win early and hope they win enough to not get bumped by a team with a late surge.
Actually, a lot of us did. Even when they were winning WS.

[Don]

Oh well, I got to watch Matusaka and it will sound like sour grapes because the Yankees got swept but I am not even a tiny bit impressed with him. He looks no better then a 3rd or 4th starter at best. 100 million dollars is a lot to pay for that. I think he will only get worse as the season goes on too. It's only his 4th start and pitching in a 5 man rotation instead of a 6 seems to make him just a little worse each start he has. He may be down to about 90-91 mph on his fastball by the all star break at that rate. If that happens he will get hit a lot harder then he did last night.

[Barry the Baptist]

Oh well, I got to watch Matusaka and it will sound like sour grapes because the Yankees got swept but I am not even a tiny bit impressed with him. He looks no better then a 3rd or 4th starter at best. 100 million dollars is a lot to pay for that. I think he will only get worse as the season goes on too. It's only his 4th start and pitching in a 5 man rotation instead of a 6 seems to make him just a little worse each start he has. He may be down to about 90-91 mph on his fastball by the all star break at that rate. If that happens he will get hit a lot harder then he did last night.

I'd hate to see what happens to Kei Igawa if that happens, I don't think he'll be as bad as you are predicting but I certainly think once teams see him the 2nd time around he's gonna get it quite a bit. It's the Hideo Nomo thing all over again.

[AlioTheFool]

Were you watching? How can you say we got totally dominated when we had leads in all three games. What we got was what any team gets when you have two minor league pitchers going against a good team.

Right, dominated.

Their lineup manhandled our pitching. Our hitting is not the problem, and we all know that already. When you're scoring more than a half dozen runs a game, and still losing, your pitching is getting murdered, and therefore, you're being dominated.

[AlioTheFool]

Actually, a lot of us did. Even when they were winning WS.

Yeah, but pre-Championship years, no one was paying attention to the Yankees fans that have been fans all along.

Granted, there are many 96ers, but those of us who have been Yankees fans for our entire lives haven't necessarily had a love affair with Torre.

I, for one, have never liked his managerial ability. I've always credited his coaching staff for bringing us those titles in the 90s.

[AlioTheFool]

Oh well, I got to watch Matusaka and it will sound like sour grapes because the Yankees got swept but I am not even a tiny bit impressed with him. He looks no better then a 3rd or 4th starter at best. 100 million dollars is a lot to pay for that. I think he will only get worse as the season goes on too. It's only his 4th start and pitching in a 5 man rotation instead of a 6 seems to make him just a little worse each start he has. He may be down to about 90-91 mph on his fastball by the all star break at that rate. If that happens he will get hit a lot harder then he did last night.

See, I have to disagree with you. Here's why.

The guy has an insane workout regimen. He works constantly. He exercises all day before his starts. He throws, and throws, and throws, and yet, he's still throwing in the 90s in the 6th.

Add to that the fact that he has no problem throwing any of his 12 pitches at any time, and you have a deadly weapon in your starting rotation.

Honestly, if you aren't impressed with him, it's probably more because he wears a B on his cap. Trust me, I can understand. I was jealous of the Sox when they got Schilling, and even moreso that they have Matsuzaka now.

[Sundayjack]

Oh well, I got to watch Matusaka and it will sound like sour grapes because the Yankees got swept but I am not even a tiny bit impressed with him. He looks no better then a 3rd or 4th starter at best. 100 million dollars is a lot to pay for that. I think he will only get worse as the season goes on too. It's only his 4th start and pitching in a 5 man rotation instead of a 6 seems to make him just a little worse each start he has. He may be down to about 90-91 mph on his fastball by the all star break at that rate. If that happens he will get hit a lot harder then he did last night.

Holy smokes. . .

It must have just KILLED you when the bids were opened and the Yankees weren't the high bidder. Hell, I never even heard of the guy until I read where the Yankees had their eye on him. I was more surprised than anyone. And, right now, he'd be your staff ace.

Rookie pitcher. Doesn't know the language. Doesn't know the hitters. In his first four games in the league, he's averaging just under seven innings per appearance, and just over a strikeout per inning. He was thrown into the crucible that is Yankee-RedSox baseball, and got a win. Not too shabby.

And that $100 Million?? His salary this year is just over $6 million. Far less than, say, Carl Pavano.

And that posting fee that makes up the balance? You didn't happen to look around the ballpark last night, did you? Notice all the Japanese advertising? You can't swing a chopstick around Fenway without hitting a Japanese visitor, these days. You can see that money coming back to them.

[JoeJet]

And thats not to mention all the Red Sox gear that is being sold in Japan. And pretty soon millions of people in Japan will be wired for Red Sox baseball. Thats a big chunk of change. Dice-K will more than pay for himself. The Wilpons and Mets were also willing to spend $30 million for the chance to sign K-Dice and an additional $50 million or so to sign him and we all know the Mets do not throw around their money foolishly.

[Cellar-door]

I'd hate to see what happens to Kei Igawa if that happens, I don't think he'll be as bad as you are predicting but I certainly think once teams see him the 2nd time around he's gonna get it quite a bit. It's the Hideo Nomo thing all over again.

I'd take a nomo rookie year... 2.54 ERA 1.056 WHIP 11.1 K/9, 3 k/bb,
that could win the Cy Young this year.

[Don]

Let me explain dominated to you. 12-4, 14-11, 13-5, 8-5 and 2-1. The scores of the Yankees 5 game sweep of Boston last year. That was domination. Not 7-6, 7-5, and 7-6 when the Yankees had the lead in the 8th, 4th and 6th innings of those game. That is called squeaking by the short hairs of your chin.

[Don]

Now he has 12 pitches? He only had 6 last night...damn he's impressive. I'm not impressed because I see the same thing I see in all Japanese pitchers. Going from pitching once a week to every 5 days wears them down. Maybe will break the mold but so far he is following the pattern perfectly. Either that or he just wasn't as good as the hype to begin with. The Yankees hit just about every pitch they swung at and that was the first time they faced him. He did fool them a few times and get called third strikes. I think there were only 2 swinging third strikes that I remember. Arod and somebody else.

[Don]

Our staff ace? He would be the fifth pitcher in our rotation just as Igawa is.

[Don]

And thats not to mention all the Red Sox gear that is being sold in Japan. And pretty soon millions of people in Japan will be wired for Red Sox baseball. Thats a big chunk of change. Dice-K will more than pay for himself. The Wilpons and Mets were also willing to spend $30 million for the chance to sign K-Dice and an additional $50 million or so to sign him and we all know the Mets do not throw around their money foolishly.
We already have that with Matsui. The Yankees would have gained nothing by signing him from that standpoint.

[The Dark Knight]

It just pisses me off to get shut down by this goofy ass:

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[JoeJet]

We already have that with Matsui. The Yankees would have gained nothing by signing him from that standpoint.

Thats a very fair point. Its also now makes me understand why they were outbid by both the Red Sox and Mets.

[Cellar-door]

Now he has 12 pitches? He only had 6 last night...damn he's impressive. I'm not impressed because I see the same thing I see in all Japanese pitchers. Going from pitching once a week to every 5 days wears them down. Maybe will break the mold but so far he is following the pattern perfectly. Either that or he just wasn't as good as the hype to begin with. The Yankees hit just about every pitch they swung at and that was the first time they faced him. He did fool them a few times and get called third strikes. I think there were only 2 swinging third strikes that I remember. Arod and somebody else.

Really there has only been one japanese pitcher like him before, a star in Japan who came over in their prime and that was hideo nomo. he had 2 great seasons then was a league average pitcher after that. Matsuzaka if anything should have a better career, as he throws much harder, where Nomo had a very funky delivery. Also Nomo shows that a pitcher from Japan can throw plenty of innings.

[Murrell2878]

It just pisses me off to get shut down by this goofy ass:

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Are you serious?? Especially with the guy in your avatar???? bwahahaha :rofl:

[ShadeTree#55]

Awful quiet around here?

[LockDown24]

It just pisses me off to get shut down by this goofy ass:

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Seriously that look he had on his face in the 9th last night cracked me up

[The Dark Knight]

Seriously that look he had on his face in the 9th last night cracked me up

That is his strength. Batters see that face, can't help but laugh, lose concentration.

Are you serious?? Especially with the guy in your avatar???? bwahahaha :rofl:

My avatar is a joke though. My statement about Papelbon, no joke. :)

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Dear God in Heaven, I can't believe I didn't have internet during this series. Sigh.

[Don]

Really there has only been one japanese pitcher like him before, a star in Japan who came over in their prime and that was hideo nomo. he had 2 great seasons then was a league average pitcher after that. Matsuzaka if anything should have a better career, as he throws much harder, where Nomo had a very funky delivery. Also Nomo shows that a pitcher from Japan can throw plenty of innings.
I agree that innings won't be an issue. We coddle our pitchers here way too much. That never happened in the 40s-70s. Thats relatively new and I think it sucks. It does nothing to extend anybody's career either.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Let me explain dominated to you. 12-4, 14-11, 13-5, 8-5 and 2-1. The scores of the Yankees 5 game sweep of Boston last year. That was domination. Not 7-6, 7-5, and 7-6 when the Yankees had the lead in the 8th, 4th and 6th innings of those game. That is called squeaking by the short hairs of your chin.

After reading this thread all the way through, I am struck by one HUGE bit of hypocrisy. All the Yankee fans want to point to the 5 game sweep last year, but then dismiss this series to the Yankees having injuries. Have you any of you SEEN the Red Sox injury report from last August?

[Don]

After reading this thread all the way through, I am struck by one HUGE bit of hypocrisy. All the Yankee fans want to point to the 5 game sweep last year, but then dismiss this series to the Yankees having injuries. Have you any of you SEEN the Red Sox injury report from last August?
No. Who was out in that series? Never mind, I'll look it up. I know Crisp was. No we wasn't. This was their lineup, who is missing?
Crisp
Loretta
Ortiz
Ramirez
Youklis
Lowell
Hinske
Lopez
Gonzales

So, your point?

Oh, and the Yankees were missing Sheffield and Matsui in that series too. So again, your point is what?

[JoeJet]

DEVILONTHETOWNROOF: After reading this thread all the way through, I am struck by one HUGE bit of hypocrisy. All the Yankee fans want to point to the 5 game sweep last year, but then dismiss this series to the Yankees having injuries. Have you any of you SEEN the Red Sox injury report from last August?

No. Who was out in that series? Never mind, I'll look it up. I know Crisp was.

Yazstremski, Conigliaro, Scott, Petrocelli, Rice and Lynn.

[Don]

Yazstremski, Conigliaro, Scott, Petrocelli, Rice and Lynn.
I LOVE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! except you forgot Williams.

[JoeJet]

I LOVE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! except you forgot Williams.

yeah. but I thought you were going to throw Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, and Mickey Mantle in my face.

[Don]

yeah. but I thought you were going to throw Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, and Mickey Mantle in my face.
They were in the lineup.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

No. Who was out in that series? Never mind, I'll look it up. I know Crisp was. No we wasn't. This was their lineup, who is missing?
Crisp
Loretta
Ortiz
Ramirez
Youklis
Lowell
Hinske
Lopez
Gonzales

So, your point?

Oh, and the Yankees were missing Sheffield and Matsui in that series too. So again, your point is what?

Varitek, Wakefield, Snyder, Pauley, Ramirez left a couple games early with hamstring problems, Nixon, Clement, Crisp was playing, but was hurt, Mirabelli, and Jon Lester was diagnosed with cancer less than a week later.

[AlioTheFool]

After reading this thread all the way through, I am struck by one HUGE bit of hypocrisy. All the Yankee fans want to point to the 5 game sweep last year, but then dismiss this series to the Yankees having injuries. Have you any of you SEEN the Red Sox injury report from last August?

You'll notice that again and again I said we were dominated, and did not fall back on the injury bug excuse.

Not all Yankees fans are totally blind to their own situation.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said ALL the fans. Just most.

[nyjunc]

I'll let him speak for himself, but what he is probably saying is he put up with him then. That's my feeling anyway. I have never liked his favorite player attitude. Playing people "he trusts" regardless of whether or not they were playing like total crap. If he had his way, Bernie Williams would be here playing center field and batting .128. I don't like he coddles Rivera even though Rivera wants to pitch more. I don't like he coddles Posada saying he can't catch a day game after a night game. Fine if you are playing KC but he'll even do it in the plaoffs. Posada isn't asking for that either. They both make 10 million a year to play. This isn't football, it's baseball. I could go on but why bother.

That was nice of him to "put up" w/ Joe while we were winning 4 WS in 5 years.

You don't like the way he coddles rivera yet all you guys(in general not you specific) is complain how he overuses the pen- see how silly this bashing is?



On the Sox series, obviously we had a huge disadvantage in the pitching but we battered their supposed great rotation and did so w/o our A lineup. When the staff gets healthy we are going to be in great shape.

[JoeJet]

Take Willie Randolph please. Randolph likes to show people how smart he is by playing his gut, instead of the book. Thats why he let lefty Schoenweis pitch to a righty Sunday in the seventh while Heilman was in the bullpen. Of course, the righty hit a three run home run. Then he let righty Heilman pitch to a lefty Sunday in the eighth while Wagner was in the bullpen. Of course the lefty hit a three run homer.

[Don]

That was nice of him to "put up" w/ Joe while we were winning 4 WS in 5 years.

You don't like the way he coddles rivera yet all you guys(in general not you specific) is complain how he overuses the pen- see how silly this bashing is?



On the Sox series, obviously we had a huge disadvantage in the pitching but we battered their supposed great rotation and did so w/o our A lineup. When the staff gets healthy we are going to be in great shape.
Before the series even started I said we never have a problem with their starters. Obviously our A level pitchers are never going to get it done against a good team. We need to write Pavano off completely and do it now. Even if he comes back he should be relegated to the last choice out of the pen. Trade for somebody else or bring up Ohlendorf along with Hughes and let the chips fall where they must. At least you will get more then 1 start in a row out of them. Put Igawa in the pen too or send him down to the minors to work out his control issues.

[nyjunc]

Before the series even started I said we never have a problem with their starters. Obviously our A level pitchers are never going to get it done against a good team. We need to write Pavano off completely and do it now. Even if he comes back he should be relegated to the last choice out of the pen. Trade for somebody else or bring up Ohlendorf along with Hughes and let the chips fall where they must. At least you will get more then 1 start in a row out of them.

What do you mean "obviously our A level pitchers are never going to get it done against a good team"?

[Don]

What do you mean "obviously our A level pitchers are never going to get it done against a good team"?
I mean Wright is a A level pitcher. He had a total of two AA starts before coming up. Karstens and Rasner aren't much better.

[nyjunc]

I mean Wright is a A level pitcher. He had a total of two AA starts before coming up. Karstens and Rasner aren't much better.

OK, I got you. I got confused, I thought you were saying our A level(meaning our top guys). I didn't even think of the minors when I saw the quote. Sorry for the confusion.

[Don]

OK, I got you. I got confused, I thought you were saying our A level(meaning our top guys). I didn't even think of the minors when I saw the quote. Sorry for the confusion.
I should have said minor league A level...