The Drafting of a Defensive End

[ViLmAfAn5128]

We have Shaun Ellis on one side, and a newly locked up to a 5 year contract-Bryan Thomas, so can someone show me where we will play this DE if he (whoever he is) is drafted, we need an OLB, specifically a LOLB, so we should take Lawrence Timmons, Paul Siler, or Paul Pusluzny, and if Pat Willis falls to us....PLEASE take him, i dont want a DE/OLB 'tweener, i want a solid OLB like the guys i listed

[Phyr]

We play the 34. Bryan Thomas plays OLB. We need a tweener because the OLBs in the 34 need to be as big as 43 Ends and as fast as regular OLBs.

CBS is brainwashing you.

[MikeSLTJ23]

Because in the 3-4, Bryan Thomas is an OLB, and he's proven that this year. Kimo was our other 3-4 DE this year with Ellis. Ellis didn't play great but he is definitely good enough for the position, no question. Kimo is not. So we have to switch him out for a 3-4 DE. However, I think we also need a 3-4 OLB on the other side of Thomas. Patrick Willis (even though he's an MLB in college) is the guy that I would pick if he were available.

[ViLmAfAn5128]

tell me, the way his stock is falling, why we can't get Quentin Moses with one of our #2s, He can be a 3-4 DE can't he

[jamesAngleton]

1. Patrick Willis is not an OLB in the 3-4.
2. Quentin Moses can never be a DE in the 3-4 he is too light

However, Quentin Moses would be a good pick up for a 3-4 OLB.

DE's in the 3-4 would be:

Adam Carriker
"Tank" Tyler
Ray McDonald
Ryan Macbean
Quinn Pitcock
Tim Crowder
Antonio Johnson

OLB/Tweeners in the 3-4 would be:

Quentin Moses
Anthony Spencer
Lamarr Woodley
Jarvis Moss
Victor Abiamiri

I hope we get Spencer at 37.

[MikeTheJetsFan]

Why does everyone think we should get a 3-4 OLB? Is that to replace Hobson or someone else, or to use the rookie to rotate in?

I thought Hobson did a good enough job, and if our reasoning is to just keep Hobson and have a rotation at OLB, I think that's pretty damn stupid to use it on for a first round pick.

[ViLmAfAn5128]

Why does everyone think we should get a 3-4 OLB? Is that to replace Hobson or someone else, or to use the rookie to rotate in?

I thought Hobson did a good enough job, and if our reasoning is to just keep Hobson and have a rotation at OLB, I think that's pretty damn stupid to use it on for a first round pick.

in case you were unaware, there are 2 OLBs on the field in a 3-4, Hobson is one, and CHatham is the other, i think we should replace him, becuase god knows he got hammered and picked on all year, and was shredded

[Long & Winding Rhode]

in case you were unaware, there are 2 OLBs on the field in a 3-4, Hobson is one, and CHatham is the other, i think we should replace him, becuase god knows he got hammered and picked on all year, and was shredded

That's not true. While there are 2 OLBs in the 3-4 scheme, BT was our other one, not Chatham.

[ViLmAfAn5128]

That's not true. While there are 2 OLBs in the 3-4 scheme, BT was our other one, not Chatham.

most of the time, BT had his hand down, playing DE, well, a lot of the time, Kimo sucks, and BT has more of a future at DE, if he plays DE, draft an OLB, if he plays OLB, draft a DE, but i see him as a DE

[jasonjets]

most of the time, BT had his hand down, playing DE, well, a lot of the time, Kimo sucks, and BT has more of a future at DE, if he plays DE, draft an OLB, if he plays OLB, draft a DE, but i see him as a DE

No, Bryan Thomas is STICTLY OLB in the 3-4. In the 4-3 he would be a DE, but in the 3-4, he cannot, in any way, play DE. Last year our LB were: Bryan Thomas (OLB), Jonathan Vilma (MLB), Eric Barton (MLB) and Victor Hobson (OLB). But we still need a DE to replace Kimo, OR a NT and we can then move Robertson to DE. Bryan Thomas will NOT play DE ever in a 3-4. We also, possibly, need a OLB to replace Barton (moving Hobson to the inside), because we need another pass rusher, and Hobson nor Barton are that.

[Miamipuck]

No, Bryan Thomas is STICTLY OLB in the 3-4. In the 4-3 he would be a DE, but in the 3-4, he cannot, in any way, play DE. Last year our LB were: Bryan Thomas (OLB), Jonathan Vilma (MLB), Eric Barton (MLB) and Victor Hobson (OLB). But we still need a DE to replace Kimo, OR a NT and we can then move Robertson to DE. Bryan Thomas will NOT play DE ever in a 3-4. We also, possibly, need a OLB to replace Barton (moving Hobson to the inside), because we need another pass rusher, and Hobson nor Barton are that.

Nice post. Just about sums it up. The need is D-Line right now. Kimo is terrible, Robertson was mediocre as NT (he took half the year to get going,so I am being kind here), as was Ellis. The defensive line was first and foremost the biggest deficiency of the defense and it was not even close. Unfortunately that is the recipe for disaster in the 3-4. If bringing in a NT and moving Robertson to De or leaving NT and just bringing in a DE is the answer than fine do it.

BT was the OLB last year and he played well. Hobson played well too however he is not very fast and if the RB gets past the line (which they did allmost everytime this year) Hobson is just not fast enough. Vilma needs more space to operate and Barton can be upgraded no problem IMO.

Anyway fix the Dline and the LB's immediately are better by an order of magnitude. Really, they played relatively well last year considering the line in front of them.

[All Star]

most of the time, BT had his hand down, playing DE, well, a lot of the time, Kimo sucks, and BT has more of a future at DE, if he plays DE, draft an OLB, if he plays OLB, draft a DE, but i see him as a DE

Only in obvious pass rushing situations was Thomas a down lineman......

Your telling me a 260 pound end can survive in a 3-4?

[KurtTheJetsFan]

The biggest liability on our D this past season was the RE spot. That is why we are looking to fill the spot.

[All Star]

The biggest liability on our D this past season was the RE spot. That is why we are looking to fill the spot.

I agree, Kimo was our weakest link........

Of course I wouldn't mind keeping him as a backup and mentor, and to provide depth......

[brothermoose]

Right, we don't need a 4-3 DE unless he is the OLB pass rusher we're looking for...we need a NT with drob moving to end, but i'm not even sure he fits there cause of his height, we probably just need to get what we can for him. So that leaves us with NT, a college (4-3) DT=our DE, and a college DE/pass-rusher=our OLB

[All Star]

Right, we don't need a 4-3 DE unless he is the OLB pass rusher we're looking for...we need a NT with drob moving to end, but i'm not even sure he fits there cause of his height, we probably just need to get what we can for him. So that leaves us with NT, a college (4-3) DT=our DE, and a college DE/pass-rusher=our OLB

I think D-Rob would be great as a DE........

[Vegi5894]

The biggest liability on our D this past season was the RE spot. That is why we are looking to fill the spot.

Close but no cigar, biggest liability was hank poteat/the second CB spot all together. Dyson was alright, but Poteat killed us. not to mention a bad DE in isn't QUITE as bad as a horrible CB who exposes the whole secondary.

BUT hopefully we will fill up that spot with my man ASSANTE SAMUEL!!!! haha

[JetsLookingforDWare]

I think many people forget the basics of what a typical 3-4 front 7 looks like...

The ends are usually (hopefully) tall, and is basically a 4-3 undertackle. Ideal height is 6'4-6'6 with the weight (ideally) being close to 290-300.

Nose tackles tend to be between 6'1-6'3 with the weight well over 300 pounds.

The OLBers are the guys doing the real blitzing. Ideally you want a guy like DeMarcus Ware who can cover, contain, blitz, and stop the run. The guy has to be strong, tall, fast, long arms....basically a physical freak. Think 6'3-6'6 250+ with speed hovering around 4.6 and good strength.

Personally, the Jets need help with all that stuff. Someone like Ambrini, Moses, Mohr, or Moss would make me happy, because Hobson isn't the answer long term. Someone like Carriker, Alama-Francis, or even Quinn Pitock would be nice for the end position. Anyone who can take on two blockers well enough would be beautiful as our NT.

[All Star]

Is three inches of hight really going to make D-Rob a bad RE?

Everyone is saying he's too small for a NT, okay, but now too short for a RE?

His strengths were explosiveness and quickness for a big guy, I would have though that would fit well at DE...........

[All Star]

Close but no cigar, biggest liability was hank poteat/the second CB spot all together. Dyson was alright, but Poteat killed us. not to mention a bad DE in isn't QUITE as bad as a horrible CB who exposes the whole secondary.

BUT hopefully we will fill up that spot with my man ASSANTE SAMUEL!!!! haha

I agree, I'm beginning to take for granted already that they may sign Asante :rofl:

[Crimson Cane]

D-Rob is not too small for NT in this defense; he did a good job, especially as the season went on. He is a very poor fit for DE in the 3-4; he played that some under Herm and Cottrell in their 3-4 fronts (with Chester also at end) and was wasted out there. He is quick in the interior but did not do well bringing pressure from the end spot. RDE is the biggest defensive need, even bigger than CB; but historically, value in the draft comes in finding an edge rusher, so if any make it to the Jets' pick, that would probably be the best place to go. A plugger for RDE can be found later.

Most successful 3-4 defenses have had pass rushing LB's as their foundation; New England's current version is the first I can recall that has the linemen as the primary pass rushers, but in building the defense, McGinest was the primary pass rusher before they added Seymour. The old New Orleans defense, the Giants defense from that era, Pittsburgh--top 3-4 defenses, all based on OLB's.

That's why it makes sense for the Jets to add an athletic edge rusher who can confuse the offense even more....they have to plan for pressure from either side rather than knowing who is most likely to come, and with Vilma, Hobson, and/or Barton on the inside, you have capable pass rushes in those spots as well. Offensive assignments are based on identifying what defensive player will be doing what, and when you have 4 linebackers, of whom any or all may be coming, blocking assignments get confused and the play gets blown up.

[legler82]

Close but no cigar, biggest liability was hank poteat/the second CB spot all together. Dyson was alright, but Poteat killed us. not to mention a bad DE in isn't QUITE as bad as a horrible CB who exposes the whole secondary.

BUT hopefully we will fill up that spot with my man ASSANTE SAMUEL!!!! haha

No way, Kimo was the worst player on defense by far. Him getting blown 5 yards off the LOS on every snap not only left gaping wholes it also created more traffic for Vilma to filter through. I've watched football for over 20 years now, even played through college, and up until Kimo, I've never witness a defensive player attempt to stop defenders with their back. On almost evry play, Kimo was always getting turned around by the olinemen. It was like he was doing the Freeney spin move except it was only 180 degrees and 5-10 yards downfield.

[legler82]

No way, Kimo was the worst player on defense by far. Him getting blown 5 yards off the LOS on every snap not only left gaping wholes it also created more traffic for Vilma to filter through. I've watched football for over 20 years now, even played through college, and up until Kimo, I've never witness a defensive player attempt to stop defenders with their back. On almost evry play, Kimo was always getting turned around by the olinemen. It was like he was doing the Freeney spin move except it was only 180 degrees and 5-10 yards downfield.

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In reference to having to replace Kimo, I posted the following back on 09-20-2006:

...Next year I think we will be fine at NT w/ Rashad, Tui and Sione. We will be fine at LDE w/ Ellis, Hamilton and Ball (I think he's better suited on the left-side). I think the big area of concern will be as, it is right now, the RDE spot. Kimo has looked old and Ball, because of his size, is used mostly on passing downs for pass rushing purposes. The RDE is usually the bigger of the 2 DEs and the guy who creates the opportunities for the ROLB to get all those sacks. This position is even more important for the Jets because this is the DE that lines up in front of Vilma. IMO this is the most unheralded and toughest position to find quality players for in the 3-4. The Pats have the best one in the game in Seymore.

[Crimson Cane]

Good foresight Legler--and good point about him lining up in front of Vilma. I'm not a huge DeWayne fan, but he gets way too much of the blame for not keeping guys off Vilma. If the Jets go after Terdell Sands, I think that's the spot he'll be playing.