BIG Papi

[JETSFAN5180]

This guy is clutch. WOW

[10nyjets87]

i have figured out the new feature in baseball games next season. Clutch-O-Meter

[AlioTheFool]

I don't care, I despise the guy. Plus, take Manny out from behind him, and I bet he isn't so tough. He wasn't all that wonderful in Minnesota.

[JETSFAN5180]

I don't care, I despise the guy. Plus, take Manny out from behind him, and I bet he isn't so tough. He wasn't all that wonderful in Minnesota.


Come on Boston hater or not this guy is the real deal.As a sports fan and fierce competitor Big Papi is getting it done.

[AlioTheFool]

Like I said, without Manny, I don't believe Ortiz is half as good as he is now.

Any day of the week I'd take Manny over Ortiz on my team. Yes, I hate Boston, but I don't despise Manny. I despise Ortiz.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Despise him all you want, he's the best pure hitter in the AL and the best clutch hitter in baseball.

[10nyjets87]

im a yankee fan and he is an absolute freak. Cant wait until he retires :)

[AMJets]

I'll take Manny for the first 8 innings, and Ortiz for the 9th.

[AlioTheFool]

Hey Devil, honestly, as a Boston fan, do you not believe without Manny hitting behind him, Ortiz wouldn't hit as well. Serious question. Sure, the guy can hit the ball a ton, but my opinion has always been, he sees better pitches because of Manny.

In all honesty, I would rather pitch to Ortiz than Manny, in any inning.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

I do think he would be that good. Look at Bonds. He had no protection and managed to do it. His walks would go WAY up, but he'd still do what he does now and make pitchers pay for their mistakes. There are no holes in the guy's swing, it's very, VERY hard to get him out.

[AlioTheFool]

Like I said in the other thread, I don't give a crap what your opinion is anymore.

[LockDown24]

As much as I hate Boston I have to admit that Ortiz is a helluva player. Why did you trade him Minnesota?

[PinPointPenning10]

As much as I hate Boston I have to admit that Ortiz is a helluva player. Why did you trade him Minnesota?

They actually RELEASED him.

[AlioTheFool]

Hmmm, wonder why? Let's see, what were his numbers?

G 455
AB 1477
R 215
H 393
2B 108
3B 3
HR 58
RBI 238
BB 186
SO 339

6 years, a WHOPPING 58 homers! That's less than 10 a year. His most was his final year there when he hit a smoking TWENTY. 238 RBI in almost 1500 ABs. Yeah, those are GREAT numbers. Can't imagine why Minny wouldn't hang on to a talent like that!

So who still thinks Manny doesn't make Ortiz better?

[kinghenry89]

I'll take Manny for the first 8 innings, and Ortiz for the 9th.
Agreed.

While we're on the subject of that last at bat, it helped to show again why the ESPN "K-Zone" is a stupid, stupid idea. The whole point of the strike zone is that it's 3 dimensional and that it matters whether the ball passes through it. So showing where the ball ends up is totally useless.

What got me thinking about that was the second pitch of the AB, a fastball that was a little low and away. The ESPN announcers were talking about the pitcher like he had totally lost the zone because it was way outside their little box, where if they had looked at a traditional overhead and side angle they would've seen that it was a pretty good pitch--off the zone, but a nice pitch.

Just my latest little ESPN rant.

[AlioTheFool]

Well that's just stupid. I don't like him, but I would never throw inside to him. Low and away is the only way to pitch to him. You're better off making him extend and taking the chance with that than throwing it anywhere he can turn on it.

I despise the guy, but I ain't stupid.

[Murrell2878]

Hmmm, wonder why? Let's see, what were his numbers?

G 455
AB 1477
R 215
H 393
2B 108
3B 3
HR 58
RBI 238
BB 186
SO 339

6 years, a WHOPPING 58 homers! That's less than 10 a year. His most was his final year there when he hit a smoking TWENTY. 238 RBI in almost 1500 ABs. Yeah, those are GREAT numbers. Can't imagine why Minny wouldn't hang on to a talent like that!

So who still thinks Manny doesn't make Ortiz better?
what does this have to do with him constantly coming through in the clutch??? Something A Rod is unable to do, but his 48 HR's a year when the Yanks are up by 8 or down by 8 are definnitely MVP material :rolleyes:

[kinghenry89]

Well that's just stupid. I don't like him, but I would never throw inside to him. Low and away is the only way to pitch to him. You're better off making him extend and taking the chance with that than throwing it anywhere he can turn on it.

I despise the guy, but I ain't stupid.
I disagree, he's most dangerous when he can extend his arms--he has power to all sides of the field, he just tends to pull the ball because pitchers try to hammer him inside.

The bottom line is that he is a dangerous hitter wherever you pitch him, and your only real hope is to mix speeds and try to catch him off guard.

As for Manny making him better, of course Manny makes him better. Hitting between A-Rod and Damon makes Jeter much better, does that make him a bad player?

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Hmmm, wonder why? Let's see, what were his numbers?

G 455
AB 1477
R 215
H 393
2B 108
3B 3
HR 58
RBI 238
BB 186
SO 339

6 years, a WHOPPING 58 homers! That's less than 10 a year. His most was his final year there when he hit a smoking TWENTY. 238 RBI in almost 1500 ABs. Yeah, those are GREAT numbers. Can't imagine why Minny wouldn't hang on to a talent like that!

So who still thinks Manny doesn't make Ortiz better?

455 games is about 2.8 full years, and he averaged 20.7 HR/162 games for Minnesota, not exactly terrible for a young player. He played sparingly, in a terrible lineup, and he was 20-26 years old, not exactly a matured hitter. He also broke his hammate bone in his wrist one year and said it took a full year after surgery to fully recover. He also used to have a huge hole in his swing up and in, a hole that has since closed as he matured as a hitter.

[JETSFAN5180]

Just a late night thought how come no accusations of Big Papi being juiced after all he basically did nothing in Minnesota.

[AlioTheFool]

what does this have to do with him constantly coming through in the clutch??? Something A Rod is unable to do, but his 48 HR's a year when the Yanks are up by 8 or down by 8 are definnitely MVP material :rolleyes:

First of all, the reason I posted that was to explain why Minnesota dropped him like a bad habit. So he found a home in front of the guy who I feel is the most dangerous hitter in baseball, Manny. He gets more pitches to hit, and as a result, his natural strength sends the ball into orbit.

Second, I am really tiring of this "A-Rod only hits when the Yankees are up or down by X runs." It's off base, and flat out untrue.

Just the other night, he hit one over the centerfield fence to put the Yankees up one, because Jeter was on first. I'll do the math there, the Yankees were losing by a run. Not clutch? It was the 8th inning.

I've lost track at this point, but that was, IIRC, the 7th time since the All-Star break that he either touched home as the tying run, or drove it in. Still not clutch? Then stop listening to Steve Phillips. He has poisoned your mind.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

Just a late night thought how come no accusations of Big Papi being juiced after all he basically did nothing in Minnesota.

Because he's a big fat guy?

[wildthing2022000]

I

[AlioTheFool]

455 games is about 2.8 full years, and he averaged 20.7 HR/162 games for Minnesota, not exactly terrible for a young player. He played sparingly, in a terrible lineup, and he was 20-26 years old, not exactly a matured hitter. He also broke his hammate bone in his wrist one year and said it took a full year after surgery to fully recover. He also used to have a huge hole in his swing up and in, a hole that has since closed as he matured as a hitter.

Okay, see we are talking apples and oranges here.

I don't think Ortiz is a BAD player now. He is incredibly dangerous at the plate. That is thanks in LARGE part to Manny hitting behind him.

And I would still want Manny hitting in the 9th over Ortiz any day. That's my opinion. I fear Manny MUCH more than Ortiz, and don't get me wrong, I FEAR Ortiz.

As far as Damon and A-Rod, of course they improve Jeter. That's the point of building your lineup. You capitalize on strengths. That's what Boston does with Manny/Ortiz. Honestly, if they had Varitek hitting in front of Ortiz, I would never want to play them. You put guys who are "right there" in front of guys who you know opposing pitchers don't want to face, and suddenly, they hit 20 more a year.

[AlioTheFool]

Because he's a big fat guy?

Well we can agree on that. There is no question in my mind that Ortiz, and Manny for that matter, are just naturally strong. Neither is built like a juicer. They just have so much torque in their swing, and a lot of upper body weight. When they make contact, the ball can't help but sail.

[AlioTheFool]

I

[GreenMachine]

Why do teams pitch to him in the 9th?

[devilonthetownhallroof]

I was worried tonight when there were 2 on that they would have Loretta bunt them over, meaning a walk for Ortiz. When Ortiz comes up, I expect him to do something big, Manny is a crapshoot in the clutch. Not that he's not a great hitter, he just doesn't have the flare for the dramatic that Papi does.

[BIG COUNTRY]

He is clutch, I cant stand him but he is clutch.

[CP to LC =TD]

The most clutch athlete in American Sports, Big Papi

[The Green Dude]

Because he's a big fat guy?

ha.. i was just gonna say that. I am a big Yankee fan, and in all honesty i admire a player like Ortiz. Maybe because of the fact that hes been on my fantasy team 3 years straight :drunk: I think Ortiz is making a statement that you dont need to juice to produce. Love to have him in pinstripes :grin:

[ShadeTree#55]

He is the Dominican George Brett.

[HackettStillSux]

BIG pop the steroids?

[nyjunc]

ha.. i was just gonna say that. I am a big Yankee fan, and in all honesty i admire a player like Ortiz. Maybe because of the fact that hes been on my fantasy team 3 years straight :drunk: I think Ortiz is making a statement that you dont need to juice to produce. Love to have him in pinstripes :grin:

How do we know he hasn't used steroids? I have suspicions about alot of players(including Yankees and ortiz and manny among others). these guys uses stuff they can't detect and alot more players are using then we know of.

[ShadeTree#55]

You have confirmation on 2 Yankees.

[nyjunc]

You have confirmation on 2 Yankees.

I also think Giambi is currently using and has since he miraculously rediscovered how to hit last year.

[Sundayjack]

How do we know he hasn't used steroids? I have suspicions about alot of players(including Yankees and ortiz and manny among others). these guys uses stuff they can't detect and alot more players are using then we know of.
I'll tell you what - I can't disagree with you, and I won't be a hypocrite just because it's my team. I don't suspect Manny, because I think Manny is too much of a scatter-brain to maintain the regimen of performance enhancers that he'd need. I guess that's just more gut than anything else. I've ALWAYS suspected Johnny Damon. I think it's almost a certainty that Giambi is working with (at least) HGH these days. Ortiz has always had a big frame. Still, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he were juicing, and I'll support that with his numbers-jump. In this age of baseball, I say, where-there's-smoke-there's-fire. Everyone's suspect.

I'd also bet anything that amphetamines are standard fare for 90% of baseball, just to meet the grind of 162 games, 8-day road swings, and such. Hell, I take pickmeups when I've had a few straight-out days at the DMV, and I LIVE on coffee.

[Rextasy]

I for one am happy that the juice is working for Beltran this year..

[Cakes]

Minnesota canned Ortiz because he didn't fit into their small ball plans. It was mutual. He didn't enjoy playing there.

[AlioTheFool]

You have confirmation on 2 Yankees.

Actually, no we don't clown. There is no public information that anyone on the Yankees is, or has ever, used any form of performance enhancer.

Does that mean they don't? No. We are all pretty positive Giambi has used, and is still using.

But this is just another classic example of you trying to stick your clownish anti-Yankee attitude into another discussion. Don't you have anything else better to do?

[Sundayjack]

. . . . There is no public information that anyone on the Yankees is, or has ever, used any form of performance enhancer.
How do you figure?

Sheffield testified to the Federal Grand Jury that he paid Barry Bonds' trainer, Greg Anderson, $10,000 for "The Cream," "The Clear," and "Mexican Beans" (steroid pills), but that he thought he was taking "nutritional supplements." :rolleyes: He told the same thing to Sports Illustrated - a fairly public forum.

Jason Giambi admitted the same thing to the Grand Jury, except that he went one better - he didn't bother with that idiotic story about thinking he was taking herbal supplements. (As an aside, let's keep in mind that the "flax seed oil" and "arthritis cream" stories were concocted and circulated to BALCO clients by Victor Conte while the IRS was rooting through his storage container).

If your argument is that, because it was testimony in a closed Grand Jury session it doesn't count as "public information," that's a losing argument. Whether or not it should have been leaked or not; whether you like it or not - it's out. And, it was reprinted. We know what they said word-for-word. Even that dink, Bud Selig, recognizes it as incontrovertable evidence.

[jonnyd]

Despise him all you want, he's the best pure hitter in the AL and the best clutch hitter in baseball.



most clutch,no doubt...but I think youre using "pure hitter" wrongly....a mauer type or tony gwynn are usually called pure hitters

[jonnyd]

and alio the shadetree comments are clearly the worst and most useless on this site day in and day out....its like he jus sits in the board and waits for an opportunity to post some retarded one-liner about the yankees.....itll never end dude