Same old ARod

[nyjunc]

1st 2 ABs comes up w/ runners in scoring position and 2 out and goes down looking. But hey when we're up 6 runs he's there for us! By the end of the year he'll have enough menaingless #s from blowouts or 1st inning Hrs to give him "MVP" type #s and everyone will say how w/o him we wouldn't have made the postseaon w/o him:breakdance:

[ButtleMan]

Matsui really came through last night as well, right Junc.
And Crosby great baserunning had NO affect on the outcome.
Or most importantly, Joe realizing that Mo CANNOT pitch more than one inning. Evertime he stretches Mo, trouble occurs.

[17a_tailgater]

ah AROD,the prince of the GYC.isn't he fabulous?

[3rdAnd15Draw]

But wait junc, it's an april game against the D-Rays so this couldn't possibly be a clutch situation.

[nyjunc]

Matsui really came through last night as well, right Junc.
And Crosby great baserunning had NO affect on the outcome.
Or most importantly, Joe realizing that Mo CANNOT pitch more than one inning. Evertime he stretches Mo, trouble occurs.

Here come the excuses. Matsui and Bubba aren't "MVP's", right? I'm so tired of this guy never coming through when we need him. Sure he'll end up w/ "great" #s that will be misleading as usual b/c 90% of the time he never comes through when we need him.

But wait junc, it's an april game against the D-Rays so this couldn't possibly be a clutch situation.

There can be clutch moments in every game even if the game itself is not a big, pressure filled game.

[ButtleMan]

I didnt hear you complain too much when A-rod hit that Grand Slam at the beginning of the year against the A's.
That was a clutch situation as it was his GS that turned that game into a rout.

[Dierking]

Check out nomaas.org 4/24/06.

[nyjunc]

I didnt hear you complain too much when A-rod hit that Grand Slam at the beginning of the year against the A's.
That was a clutch situation as it was his GS that turned that game into a rout.

yes up 3-0 in a gme we eventually win 15-2-- you just can't get more clutch that that:grin:

[3rdAnd15Draw]

There can be clutch moments in every game even if the game itself is not a big, pressure filled game.

So if A-Rod had gotten a hit and the Yankees had won would it have been a clutch performance? I thought performing well in games like this it's not possible to be clutch?

Just another example of you changing your argument and "rules" to further your agenda against certain players.

[ButtleMan]

yes up 3-0 in a gme we eventually win 15-2-- you just can't get more clutch that that:grin:

Eventually yes, but if doesnt then you ride his ass for not coming through in a clutch situation.
Also if he doesnt come through then it could have been a 3-2 game.
YOU dont choose what is or was a clutch situation, the game itself does and at that point in the game, it was.

[nyjunc]

So if A-Rod had gotten a hit and the Yankees had won would it have been a clutch performance?

He would have been doing his job, he is paid quite ell to come through in spots like that. No it may not be the most clutch situation(I've pretty much given up hope he'll ever be a great postseason player for us) but it's still a situation we need him to come through in and it's his job to do so- at least once in a while.

[nyjunc]

Eventually yes, but if doesnt then you ride his ass for not coming through in a clutch situation.
Also if he doesnt come through then it could have been a 3-2 game.
YOU dont choose what is or was a clutch situation, the game itself does and at that point in the game, it was.

Up 3-0 is NOT a clutch situation. For some strange reason I think if the bases were loaded for ARod and the Yanks were DOWN 3-0 he wouldn't have hit a GS.

[ShadeTree#55]

Wiggy = Yankee killer.

[ButtleMan]

Up 3-0 is NOT a clutch situation. For some strange reason I think if the bases were loaded for ARod and the Yanks were DOWN 3-0 he wouldn't have hit a GS.

And what would you have said about him if he didnt???
It was a clutch situation because it completely changed the game itself. It turned a semi-close game into a rout.
He came through then, he has come through before and will again.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

He would have been doing his job, he is paid quite ell to come through in spots like that. No it may not be the most clutch situation(I've pretty much given up hope he'll ever be a great postseason player for us) but it's still a situation we need him to come through in and it's his job to do so- at least once in a while.

Absolutely, it makes sense that you don't think that one of the best hitters in baseball will ever be a good postseason player(we should amend this to only "big" postseason series, otherwise people might get the wrong idea). Obviously the hit fairies come and sprinkle out dust on A-Rod's bat in any big spot.

[nyjunc]

And what would you have said about him if he didnt???
It was a clutch situation because it completely changed the game itself. It turned a semi-close game into a rout.
He came through then, he has come through before and will again.

His job is to come through once in a while. no I won't throw him bouquets b/c he does 10% of the time. When he starts coming through a little more often I'll start to heap praise but he hasn't earned it yet. I WANT him to be clutch which is why I am always criticizing him. I hope he shuts me up forever but as of now he's not great when we need him to be great.

[nyjunc]

Absolutely, it makes sense that you don't think that one of the best hitters in baseball will ever be a good postseason player(we should amend this to only "big" postseason series, otherwise people might get the wrong idea). Obviously the hit fairies come and sprinkle out dust on A-Rod's bat in any big spot.

Yeah the ALCS is bigger than the ALDS, yeah playing the Sox is bigger than playing the Twins. he had one big series against the Twins then disappeared against Boston and was as dreadful as a player could be last year vs. LAA.

[ShadeTree#55]

The junc scale of clutchness.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

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a-rod has too many thetans

[17a_tailgater]

where is DROB63CMART28 to accuss mets fans of start threads about the yankees

[ButtleMan]

Last night the Yankees drew 14 Walks and had the leadoff batter on base in 9/10 innnings and only scored 2 runs.
Giambi walked 4 times only to be stranded on the base paths each time.

The Box.

Hitters AB R H RBI BB SO LOB AVG
J Damon DH 3 1 1 0 2 1 2 .286
D Jeter SS 4 0 1 0 2 1 3 .384
G Sheffield RF 5 1 1 2 1 0 7 .338
A Rodriguez 3B 4 0 0 0 1 2 4 .292
J Giambi 1B 1 0 0 0 4 0 1 .340
M Cairo PR-1B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .313
H Matsui LF 4 0 0 0 1 0 4 .257
J Posada C 4 0 0 0 1 1 6 .279
R Cano 2B 4 0 2 0 1 2 2 .358
B Crosby CF 2 0 1 0 1 0 2 .143
a-B Williams PH 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .239

Nobody, with the exception of 1 at bat by Sheff, did anything last night.
Even Jeter with his .390+ ba going into the game couldnt deliver. If he was truly clutch than he would have gotten a single in the 10th that maybe drove in a runner instead of leaving it for Sheff, who couldnt do anything and left A-rod in the on deck circle.
To blame A-rod for last nights loss is insane.

[nyjunc]

Last night the Yankees drew 14 Walks and had the leadoff batter on base in 9/10 innnings and only scored 2 runs.
Giambi walked 4 times only to be stranded on the base paths each time.

The Box.

Hitters AB R H RBI BB SO LOB AVG
J Damon DH 3 1 1 0 2 1 2 .286
D Jeter SS 4 0 1 0 2 1 3 .384
G Sheffield RF 5 1 1 2 1 0 7 .338
A Rodriguez 3B 4 0 0 0 1 2 4 .292
J Giambi 1B 1 0 0 0 4 0 1 .340
M Cairo PR-1B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .313
H Matsui LF 4 0 0 0 1 0 4 .257
J Posada C 4 0 0 0 1 1 6 .279
R Cano 2B 4 0 2 0 1 2 2 .358
B Crosby CF 2 0 1 0 1 0 2 .143
a-B Williams PH 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .239

Nobody, with the exception of 1 at bat by Sheff, did anything last night.
Even Jeter with his .390+ ba going into the game couldnt deliver. If he was truly clutch than he would have gotten a single in the 10th that maybe drove in a runner instead of leaving it for Sheff, who couldnt do anything and left A-rod in the on deck circle.
To blame A-rod for last nights loss is insane.


that's always your defense of ARod- that no one else did anything. this isn't about others it's about ARod- he's the highest pais player in the game and suppsoedly the best. He's held to a higher standard than any other player.

[ButtleMan]

that's always your defense of ARod- that no one else did anything. this isn't about others it's about ARod- he's the highest pais player in the game and suppsoedly the best. He's held to a higher standard than any other player.

By you junc. You hold him to a higher standard due to his contract.
Arod didnt lose the game, The Yankees did. Every single one of the guys in the lineup that didnt come through when they were supposed to, did including arod.
Arod might be the highest paid player but last time I checked, Jeter, Sheff and Giambi were all damn close to him so why isnt it about them as well.

In a game like last nights there is no way you can just blame 1 player.

[ButtleMan]

^^^In addition, you using salary as the reason why he is held to a different standard is the same thing as a Yankee Hater using the yankee payroll as a reason why any season is a disappointment.

[17a_tailgater]

^^^In addition, you using salary as the reason why he is held to a different standard is the same thing as a Yankee Hater using the yankee payroll as a reason why any season is a disappointment.
ding ding ding we have a winner.

[ShadeTree#55]

junc hearts Arods contract.

[nyjunc]

By you junc. You hold him to a higher standard due to his contract.
Arod didnt lose the game, The Yankees did. Every single one of the guys in the lineup that didnt come through when they were supposed to, did including arod.
Arod might be the highest paid player but last time I checked, Jeter, Sheff and Giambi were all damn close to him so why isnt it about them as well.

In a game like last nights there is no way you can just blame 1 player.

I hold him to a higher standard b/c he is SUPPOSEDLY the best player in the game(or top 2-3). He was paid so well in this contract b/c he was supposedly one of the best but as a Yankee he has not performed as one of the best. He puts up meaningless #s but rarely comes through when we need him to.

[nyjunc]

^^^In addition, you using salary as the reason why he is held to a different standard is the same thing as a Yankee Hater using the yankee payroll as a reason why any season is a disappointment.

no it's not, the yanks SHOULD have at least a playoff team every year w/ the money that is spent- the problem is they sometimes spend foolishly such as they did in acquiring ARod's contract. Again i hold ARod to a higher standard b/c he is supposedly a top player not b/c of the contract.

[jonnyd]

how can you guys be arguing with junc on this one....of course a-rod should be held to ahigher standard due to his contract....you dont think arod should be held to ahigher standard than bubba crosby and bernie williams?????and the numbers dont lie guys...the man has not hit well with runners in scoring position and the man has been a failure in the post season....the yankees are all about the post season...you get paid gigantic contracts to perform well in the big spot...thats what the yankees are all about.....and thats the agreement...end of story..every yankee fan should be down on arod until becomes more clutch

[AMJets]

Oh man, I wish we had the clutchadociousness of Scott Brosius.

[ShadeTree#55]

Who has more rings?

[AMJets]

A-Rod gives the Yankees a much better chance to win.

[ShadeTree#55]

Count the Ringz.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

You mean we can't boil down a season of 700ish plate appearances into a handful of at bats? That's crazy talk.

[AMJets]

Then again, I would take Clay Bellinger over both of them.

But that's just me.

[ShadeTree#55]

Brosius = Winner True Yankee
Arod =Choke artist

[Gator]

Bottom line, ARod swings too hard in those spots. He should be trying to make contact........like Jeter in the ninth last night. Don't try to homer when a single is needed.

[nyjunc]

I wouldn't have to think for a second, give me brosious any day of the week. He came through time and time again, was a great defensive 3B and was ALOT cheaper. I'd rather take that $15-25 mil and spend it on pitching than waste it on ARod.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

I wouldn't have to think for a second, give me brosious any day of the week. He came through time and time again, was a great defensive 3B and was ALOT cheaper. I'd rather take that $15-25 mil and spend it on pitching than waste it on ARod.

Come on junc, do you really think the A-Rod contract(or anything) would cause the Yanks to spend a penny less on pitching then George wanted to?

[nyjunc]

Come on junc, do you really think the A-Rod contract(or anything) would cause the Yanks to spend a penny less on pitching then George wanted to?

No but the $15-25 mil could be spent more wisely on another position.

[AMJets]

No but the $15-25 mil could be spent more wisely on another position.

Like what? With the giant downgrade from A-Rod to Brosius, what position on this team are you upgrading enough to compensate for replacing .300-45-130 with .240-15-50? And like 3rd said, if Cashman told George he wanted a big time pitcher, A-Rod's salary wouldn't stop him.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

No but the $15-25 mil could be spent more wisely on another position.

What players have the Yanks missed out on the last few years because they didn't want to pay them? Chances are if they didn't have A-Rod their payroll would just be a bit lower and the money would not be spent elsewhere.

[ButtleMan]

Like signing pedro instead?

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Like signing pedro instead?

No way, Pedros clutchosity is even lower then A-Rods. I'm sure junc was pleased the Yankees went with the proven postseason winner Pavano rather then the choker Pedro.

[jonnyd]

contrary to popular belief there is a cap on how much steinbrenner will spend....im not saying its not a huge huge amount...but there is a cap....if yuo took arod off this team tomorrow and put in a solid number two pitcher even,theyd be a better team...arods bat is awesome(although not clutch)but the yanks dont need the bat they need an arm

[3rdAnd15Draw]

contrary to popular belief there is a cap on how much steinbrenner will spend....im not saying its not a huge huge amount...but there is a cap....if yuo took arod off this team tomorrow and put in a solid number two pitcher even,theyd be a better team...arods bat is awesome(although not clutch)but the yanks dont need the bat they need an arm

The Yankees gave almost 16 mil last year to Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano. 2 players that have been train wrecks on the field at all times, as rare as they were even on the field.

But no, you're right, it's A-Rod and his money, that played in every game last year, and put up a 1.031 OPS that are the problem, and why the Yankees don't have a solid #2 pitcher.

[jonnyd]

The Yankees gave almost 16 mil last year to Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano. 2 players that have been train wrecks on the field at all times, as rare as they were even on the field.

But no, you're right, it's A-Rod and his money, that played in every game last year, and put up a 1.031 OPS that are the problem, and why the Yankees don't have a solid #2 pitcher.
thers no doubt the yankees overpaid for both of those guys...but other than pedro pavano was the highest sought after free agent pitcher that year....they certainly didnt give the guy 10 million because they thought hwe was what he has turned out to be.....wright was also coming off a great year with atlanta...what the yankees have to learn is that success in the nl for a pitcher doesnt translate into success in the al....i didnt say arod was the reason for not getting another pitcher...i said that they would be better off with a very solid additional starter right now than with arod......and there is a cap to the madness at some point...really no reason to jump down my throat with your sarcasm

[Dierking]

and the numbers dont lie guys...the man has not hit well with runners in scoring position and the man has been a failure in the post season....

nomaas.org 4/26/04 I mean it.

[Dierking]

04.24.2006 Dispelling the myth: Arod isn't clutch

Let's compare "choker" Alex Rodriguez to "clutch" Derek Jeter.

2003-2005 Regular Season "Close and Late" situations

ESPN.com defines "Close and Late" as when the game is in the 7th inning or later and the batting team is leading by one run, tied, or has the potential tying run on base, at bat, or on deck.

Arod: .276 BA / .392 OBP / .553 SLG / .945 OPS
Jeter: .249 BA / .352 OBP / .392 SLG / .744 OPS

Huge advantage to Arod.


Now, let's examine their postseason careers:

Arod: .305 BA / .393 OBP / .534 SLG / .927 OPS
Jeter: .307 BA / .379 OBP / .463 SLG / .842 OPS

Advantage Arod.


Please stop with the nonsense

[3rdAnd15Draw]

thers no doubt the yankees overpaid for both of those guys...but other than pedro pavano was the highest sought after free agent pitcher that year....they certainly didnt give the guy 10 million because they thought hwe was what he has turned out to be.....wright was also coming off a great year with atlanta...what the yankees have to learn is that success in the nl for a pitcher doesnt translate into success in the al....i didnt say arod was the reason for not getting another pitcher...i said that they would be better off with a very solid additional starter right now than with arod......and there is a cap to the madness at some point...really no reason to jump down my throat with your sarcasm

I thought we were talking in real world terms here rather then just nebulous statements. In any case I don't think you can say that "a very solid additional starter" would be more valuable to the Yankees then A-Rod. Start throwing some names out there and maybe we can talk.

My only point in bringing up Pavano/Wright was to illustrate how silly it is to bash one of the best players on your team that is in there everyday and producing, while leeches like those 2 suck up as much money with no benefit. Maybe you didn't say it(you were certainly implying it) but junc did.

[ShadeTree#55]

Black and White Cookie > ARod

[Crapshooter]

Yeah the ALCS is bigger than the ALDS, yeah playing the Sox is bigger than playing the Twins. he had one big series against the Twins then disappeared against Boston and was as dreadful as a player could be last year vs. LAA.

Boy, arent we riding A-Rod a little hard here? Don't you take into account other managers/teams adjusting for his bat and saying, "When we play them, let's make sure we don't let A-Rod beat us or get his hits"? Don't let him do to us what he did to the Twins?

It's not like he''s the first big name to ever disappear in a big game. Hey, I'm a fan grateful for Brosius, but give me A-Rod any day. Like Brosius never left a guys stranded?

By this reasoning, sounds like some people would rather have Mark Lemke than A-Rod. After all, what Clutch Lemke do in I think the 92 Series, bat something like .460-ish and suck up everything at 2nd base? BB is littered with little guys having big games/series because of big guns being adjusted against. Freddy Patek, Brian Doyle anybody? Over 162 games you'd trade A-Rod for them? Please.

With this Yankee lineup, down 3, bottom of the 9th, I'll take A-Rod at the plate over any other Yankee on this team.

[nyjunc]

What players have the Yanks missed out on the last few years because they didn't want to pay them? Chances are if they didn't have A-Rod their payroll would just be a bit lower and the money would not be spent elsewhere.

Beltran, if we got him he doesn't need to hit here just to be a great defensive CF then we wouldn't have needed Damon and would have spent his money elsewhere.

No way, Pedros clutchosity is even lower then A-Rods. I'm sure junc was pleased the Yankees went with the proven postseason winner Pavano rather then the choker Pedro.


Absolutely, I did not want pedro under any circumstances. it goes deeper than his postseason failings. he's too hated to have him come here, I know you'll say Clemens but I wasn't in favor of getting Clemens at the time either.

04.24.2006 Dispelling the myth: Arod isn't clutch

Let's compare "choker" Alex Rodriguez to "clutch" Derek Jeter.


ARod- ZERO RBI in the 5 game ALDS last year. i don't care about those silly comparisons. i have seen jeter over and over and over again come through(not as much in the past few years but enough to last a lifetime from '96-'01).

It's not like he''s the first big name to ever disappear in a big game. Hey, I'm a fan grateful for Brosius, but give me A-Rod any day. Like Brosius never left a guys stranded?


of course brosius didn't come through every time but he came through ALOt and alot mroe than ARod has so far in his Yankee career and brosius played a great 3B and was cheap. You don't need 9 All Stars, a guy like Brosius was a key to our 3 straight titles even though he wasn't one of our "best" players.

[AMJets]

04.24.2006 Dispelling the myth: Arod isn't clutch

Let's compare "choker" Alex Rodriguez to "clutch" Derek Jeter.

2003-2005 Regular Season "Close and Late" situations

ESPN.com defines "Close and Late" as when the game is in the 7th inning or later and the batting team is leading by one run, tied, or has the potential tying run on base, at bat, or on deck.

Arod: .276 BA / .392 OBP / .553 SLG / .945 OPS
Jeter: .249 BA / .352 OBP / .392 SLG / .744 OPS

Huge advantage to Arod.


Now, let's examine their postseason careers:

Arod: .305 BA / .393 OBP / .534 SLG / .927 OPS
Jeter: .307 BA / .379 OBP / .463 SLG / .842 OPS

Advantage Arod.


Please stop with the nonsense

NoMaas is one of my favorite sites on the net. They have some of the funniest pictures around, like "Tony Womack Makes Things Happen".

Even though this is all fact, some people don't want to believe that A-Rod is a great player.

[jonnyd]

i dont think junc or myself are saying that arod is not a great player...that would be ridiculous.....but like i said before when you come to the yankees and make $22222222222222222222222222 a year you have to come through in the big spot.period.and thirdand15 you can throw in any pitcher who would throw 200 or so innings capable of winning 15 games and have an e.r.a aroun3.5 3.75.....whomever that guy is it doesnt matter...the yankees would be a better team with that guy in the rotation,arod off the team and say a good fielding 3rd basemen who hits 255.

[BIG COUNTRY]

I was at a Yankee game against the A's and in the bottom of the tenth tie game late in the season, the Sox were close behind us. Anyways A-rod hits a 2 run homer to win the game by 2. It was very clutch, the clutchness of it actually amazed me.

[nyjunc]

Even though this is all fact, some people don't want to believe that A-Rod is a great player.


it's not a fact. First off Jeter and Arod have been regulars since 1996 so why is it just '03-'05? secondly, I don't care what the #s say i have seen derek in the middle of a million rallies in postseason and outside of a series against the twins I have seen ARod do nothing as a Yankee. derek has not been as clutch in recent years as he was during the dynasty years but then again he was moved to the leadoff spot and he is a better 2 hitter which he is proving once again right now.

If I have the choice of jeter or ARod w/ the game on the line I don't even have to think twice. I think the only guy i'd choose ARod over in a big spot is Posada.

[nyjunc]

I was at a Yankee game against the A's and in the bottom of the tenth tie game late in the season, the Sox were close behind us. Anyways A-rod hits a 2 run homer to win the game by 2. It was very clutch, the clutchness of it actually amazed me.

every player will have moments like that but his are too few and far between for someone who is suppsoed to be a top 3 player.

[jonnyd]

posada,i think at least we can all agree is the worst situational hitter in the history of baseball

[ButtleMan]

Nice game winning hit for A-Rod last night. :smile:

[nyjunc]

Good start, now let's see him do it a little more consistently.

[nyjunc]

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[Sundayjack]

I'm amazed at how quickly he built a reputation of choking. Just about all the morning papers have some comment about him failing "again" in the clutch.

Someone's going to pop off about this. Someone like Jeter or Joe is going to scold the media for perpetuating that legacy for AHole.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

they almost did it, they left the awful pun out of the headline for once but then they had to put that little "bumble in the bronx" box in the corner.

[AMJets]

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Go ahead, make it your avatar. It would make Shade look like a bigger Yankee fan than you.

[ShadeTree#55]

I love Arod, my favorite Yankee.

[Cakes]

I think the Yankees need to reacquire Mike Pagliarulo. All their problems would be solved.

[BIG COUNTRY]

Scott Broscious should be signed, much cheaper and he is clutch.

[MisterMoss]

I'd rather have Brosius at his 3 million dollar salary than A-Rod at his 25 million, or 16 million, or whatever we pay him.

[nyjunc]

ARod concludes another stellar series, can some foolish team take him off our hands? The guy is atrocious, we need him mroe than ever w/ all the injuries and he's worse than ever. usually he just chokes in clutch situations but now he's doing it in all situations.

I am really proud of the current group except for AROd and Randy Johnson. The banged up yanks are playing hard and battling every day but guys like RJH and especially the overrated fraud ARod are killing us.

[Dinobot 2]

I'd rather have Brosius at his 3 million dollar salary than A-Rod at his 25 million, or 16 million, or whatever we pay him.


Dude are you kidding?! No way in hell!!!!

[3rdAnd15Draw]

maybe a-rod is saving himself for the postseason this year? after all these are only may games right junc?

[nyjunc]

maybe a-rod is saving himself for the postseason this year? after all these are only may games right junc?

If he does perform in postseason(if we get there) all this will be forgotten but soemthing tells me he's not going to perform in october either.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Wouldn't it be ironic if A-rod had a poor regular season and the Yankees missed the playoffs? Would that change your mind about his value to the team in the past?

To be fair, A-rod has nothing around him at this point. He's got Giambi in front of him who hasn't been hitting a lick and Cano behind him if Posada is out for any length of time.

[nyjunc]

Wouldn't it be ironic if A-rod had a poor regular season and the Yankees missed the playoffs? Would that change your mind about his value to the team in the past?

No, if we miss the postseason he'll be a major reason b/c of his failings but it will have alot to do if the injuries continue to pile up and guys miss long stretches of the year.

To be fair, A-rod has nothing around him at this point. He's got Giambi in front of him who hasn't been hitting a lick and Cano behind him if Posada is out for any length of time.


When he had nothing but great hitters around him he still always failed in the clutch. That's just another excuse for him, he should be picking up some of the load that's out w/ injuries instead of piling it on and making guys like Stinnett, Bernie, Melky and Cano try to pick it up.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

None of the "big guys" came through in the series though, you can't put it all on a-rod. Jeter had 3 "hits" last night and 2 of them should've been scored errors. Giambi was up with the bases loaded and no outs and could only manage a sac fly.

[Sundayjack]

He's got Giambi in front of him who hasn't been hitting a lick. . .
Cut him some slack. He's on an growth hormone down-cycle. He'll get ramped-up by the all star break.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Cut him some slack. He's on an growth hormone down-cycle. He'll get ramped-up by the all star break.

No way, it's because Torre moved him up to #3 in the batting order. I also hear he got a particularly nasty fortune cookie just before the start of May.

[nyjunc]

None of the "big guys" came through in the series though, you can't put it all on a-rod. Jeter had 3 "hits" last night and 2 of them should've been scored errors. Giambi was up with the bases loaded and no outs and could only manage a sac fly.

Jeter came through those were not easy plays and at least he put it in play unlike ARod who seems to strike out looking all the time.

Giambi has been in a slump, he was great the 1st month but ARod has done nothing all year outside of 2 games.

Damon got things started on Fri, jeter kept it going. ARod got a hit but was thrown out trying to stretch it to a double(he was safe but shouldn't have put himslef in that situation). Stinnett ahd 2 hits, bernie had 2 hits.

melky had the big walk where he battled back against Wagner on saturday. ARod grounds into a DP in the 10th and hsi error put us in a bad spot early.

Last nigth Jeter in scoring position and 1 out and ARod pops out, has a chance to add 2 more runs in the 4th and lines out, in the 9th 1st and 3rd w/ 1 out down 1 and he grounds into a DP.

Just about every one is contributing except ARod. Sure some guys are slumping but they aren't killing us time after time after time like ARod.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

it was 1st and 2nd in the 8th when arod GIDP. nady wisely threw the ball to 3rd on giambis sac fly to keep the runner at 2nd

[Sundayjack]

I'll be viewing the clutchness (or lack thereof) first hand tonight. Third baseline, about 15 rows up, right at the leftfield bend. Keep your eyes peeled for me.

[silent scream]

I usually defend Arod in these type of arguments but when he got up last night with one out and two on after Giambi hit that sac-fly, I really wasn't that worried. I don't really believe that he's a choke artist but I guess all the arguments that he is are starting to get to me.

After a nice GIDP I couldn't help but laugh at how much the Yankee fans are going to be killing him today.

[17a_tailgater]

we will trade you Cliff Floyd for Arod

[3rdAnd15Draw]

I'll be viewing the clutchness (or lack thereof) first hand tonight. Third baseline, about 15 rows up, right at the leftfield bend. Keep your eyes peeled for me.

I'll keep an eye out for any Bonds jerseys thereabouts

[EcKo151]

Ya know. As much as I've defended him last year when people were down on him when he won the MVP... And he had a great year, regular season wise...

He flat out is pathetic so far. .270, shitty with RISP and 8 errors at 3rd...

It's pretty much indefensible...Hopefully he can turn it around, and well whattya know he has another shot this series against Boston to quiet SOME of his critics at Fenway...

But for some reason, I think don't think he'll do so well.

[BIG COUNTRY]

we will trade you Cliff Floyd for Arod
I would make that trade.

Ya know. As much as I've defended him last year when people were down on him when he won the MVP... And he had a great year, regular season wise...

He flat out is pathetic so far. .270, shitty with RISP and 8 errors at 3rd...

It's pretty much indefensible...Hopefully he can turn it around, and well whattya know he has another shot this series against Boston to quiet SOME of his critics at Fenway...

But for some reason, I think don't think he'll do so well.
How many more chances will he get to silence his critics though? There have been many big series where we needed wins, he comes up in clutch situations and again he never delivers. Im getting tired of A-rod, its getting ridiculous, its almost like he tries to end our chances of winning in the clutch.

[Sundayjack]

From Peter King's MMQB (To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.)
l. Why does it seem that A-Rod hits into a double play every time he's up with a game on the line in the eighth inning? Uncanny.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

i usually avoid peter king but is this type of stuff par for the course with him?

a. I am not a Will and Grace fan, but my wife was watching the final episode last Thursday. I was cleaning the basement. (What a man!) I came upstairs and plopped down for the last 15 of the show. During that time, I heard an old woman say, "Suck it, bitch.'' I heard the words "d-----bag'' and "balls,'' meaning "testicles.'' Call me the prude of the week, but are you serious? Does my new employer, NBC, actually condone that language in prime time at any time? I must be incredibly old, but that to me is such a pathetic grab at the young audience that I'm thrilled this show is going off the air. That language should be on HBO at 9:50 p.m., not on NBC.

could he sound any more out of touch if he tried? i guess the bigger question is who thinks that people want to read about petey's old man ramblings?

[Sundayjack]

i usually avoid peter king but is this type of stuff par for the course with him?
First time I've seen him go on an old man rant like that. I can think of a hundred reasons not to watch Will and Grace, but foul language never really entered into it.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

on the bright side, i think we may have found a new name for PATJ

"balls, meaning testicles"

[17a_tailgater]

you now why arod sucks?

b/c I purposely put him on my fantasy team to jinx him

[nyjunc]

ARod comes through vs. the Sox!!!! of course it was 9-1 in the 9th when he hit his "big" HR, what a clutch player!:rofl2: :sad: :mad:

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Even when a-rod hits he gets bashed. funny stuff.

[nyjunc]

Even when a-rod hits he gets bashed. funny stuff.

Are you serious? So you'd be happy if david wright never hit in the clutch then hits a HR down 9-1 in the 9th?

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Are you serious? So you'd be happy if david wright never hit in the clutch then hits a HR down 9-1 in the 9th?

It goes both ways. Wright has come up big a few times this year and has failed in big spots a few times this year as well. Same goes for any player. I know I heard at one point that A-Rod had the GW hit in a couple games in a row.

Obviously the HR last night isn't cause to jump for joy and shout how great A-Rod is, but it's not cause to bash him either.

[nyjunc]

I know I heard at one point that A-Rod had the GW hit in a couple games in a row.


Very misleading, only his HR against oak was somewaht clutch in alate game sitaution and that was in the 7th. he also had a "GW" HR in the 5th inning, got hit by a pitch for a go ahead RBI and walked on a clear strike 3(would have been another K looking) for another go ahead RBI. The man has done little except pad stats against bad teams in meaningless situations since he got here.

[nyjunc]

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

yankees fans are a strange bunch.

[ButtleMan]

yankees fans are a strange bunch.


Tell me about it. :sad:

[nyjunc]

yankees fans are a strange bunch.

Why, b/c we expect to win? We expect our supposed best player to come through for us once in a while? Of course we've been spoiled over the last decade and that may play a role but is it too much to ask for our supposed best player to come through when we need him?

What's funny is what ARod said in that esquire article a few years ago about how derek had it easy b/c he had so many great players around him and ARod comes here and w/ all the great hitters around him he struggles time and again in big spots.

[ShadeTree#55]

I can't wait till they run him out of town.

[nyjunc]

I can't wait till they run him out of town.

I wish he ws out of town already, let him go play in a place like KC where he can play w/ no pressure and do what's important to him and that's set all the records he wants to set.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Because of stuff like this. Was A-Rod the one pitching that gave up 7 runs last night? He hits a HR and people get on him because it was in a blowout. It seems petty and stupid.

[AMJets]

yankees fans are a strange bunch.

Some of our fans are just pathetic. But you can't really do anything about it except block them out, really.

[nyjunc]

Because of stuff like this. Was A-Rod the one pitching that gave up 7 runs last night? He hits a HR and people get on him because it was in a blowout. It seems petty and stupid.

No, last night wasn't his fault but i's very frustrating when he has a million opportunites for big hits and fails time after time after time then comes up w/ no pressure and hits a HR.

You guys are nuts, i don't know why you follow sports. Just for the fun of watching guys put up #s? I watch to see my teams win, I very, very rarely bash my team's players like this but it's warranted. he opened his big mouth a few years ago about Jeter then he comes here and he's a failure. I DON'T CARE ABOUT MEANINGLESS FANTASY NUMBERS! I want to see a guy perform when we need him to and this guy does not. It amazes me how homer Yankee fans(I know why the met fans are doing it) can keep defending this guy.

[nyjunc]

Some of our fans are just pathetic. But you can't really do anything about it except block them out, really.


Pathetic are the fans who will make a million excuses for ARod. is he still "trying too hard"?

[AMJets]

Pathetic are the fans who will make a million excuses for ARod. is he still "trying too hard"?

You made a million excuses for Randy last year. If you're going to make excuses for Randy, and totally bash the MVP of the league, that is a little confusing.

[ShadeTree#55]

Jeter would have found a way to hit a 9 run home run and willed them to win.

[nyjunc]

You made a million excuses for Randy last year. If you're going to make excuses for Randy, and totally bash the MVP of the league, that is a little confusing.

Randy was great for us in the 2nd half, he was 5-0 against Boston and a huge reason why we caught them. I am not making any for randy this year b/c he looks almost done, he's moving into the ARod category slowly but surely but at least he gave us more than just fantasy #s.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

No, last night wasn't his fault but i's very frustrating when he has a million opportunites for big hits and fails time after time after time then comes up w/ no pressure and hits a HR.

You guys are nuts, i don't know why you follow sports. Just for the fun of watching guys put up #s? I watch to see my teams win, I very, very rarely bash my team's players like this but it's warranted. he opened his big mouth a few years ago about Jeter then he comes here and he's a failure. I DON'T CARE ABOUT MEANINGLESS FANTASY NUMBERS! I want to see a guy perform when we need him to and this guy does not. It amazes me how homer Yankee fans(I know why the met fans are doing it) can keep defending this guy.

Your claims are unbelievable to me. I'm not going to pretend like I watch Yankee games and see every A-Rod AB. But the assertation that he fails in "every big spot" is ridiculous given the numbers he puts up.

[nyjunc]

Your claims are unbelievable to me. I'm not going to pretend like I watch Yankee games and see every A-Rod AB. But the assertation that he fails in "every big spot" is ridiculous given the numbers he puts up.

he fails 90% of the time in clutch spots. Most of his #s are a product of moments like last night. His "big hits" that help us win games usually occur in the 1st few innings. I'm an easy grader, all can be forgiven w/ a player if they can come through somewhat consistently. It's so frustrating watching a player w/ his ability fail time after time.

[AMJets]

Randy was great for us in the 2nd half, he was 5-0 against Boston and a huge reason why we caught them. I am not making any for randy this year b/c he looks almost done, he's moving into the ARod category slowly but surely but at least he gave us more than just fantasy #s.

Kind of like how Alex was great for us all year, and was THE reason we caught them.

[ShadeTree#55]

You caught them in spite of the AL MVP, not because of him.

[ButtleMan]

You caught them in spite of the AL MVP, not because of him.


So the Jets made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years in spite of Herm, not because of him?

[nyjunc]

Kind of like how Alex was great for us all year, and was THE reason we caught them.

We may not have needed such a comeback if we had another player in his spot that could have come through in more big spots. We never had a problem making the postseason w/ Cahrlie hayes, Scott Brosius and Aaron boone at 3B and last I checked the year before ARod came here we were in the WS. Sure he helped us but to say we wouldn't have caught Boston w/o him is not for sure.

[nyjunc]

So the Jets made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years in spite of Herm, not because of him?

I must have msised all the clutch plays Herm did/did not make. You can't compare a coach and a player.

[ButtleMan]

I do have to say that your sig is great, junc.

[nyjunc]

I do have to say that your sig is great, junc.

MSUJet made it so he deserves the credit.

[AMJets]

We may not have needed such a comeback if we had another player in his spot that could have come through in more big spots. We never had a problem making the postseason w/ Cahrlie hayes, Scott Brosius and Aaron boone at 3B and last I checked the year before ARod came here we were in the WS. Sure he helped us but to say we wouldn't have caught Boston w/o him is not for sure.

So you think if you take out A-Rod and replace him with Hayes, or Brosius, or Boone, we still win 95 games and beat Boston for the division?

Get real.

[ButtleMan]

So you think if you take out A-Rod and replace him with Hayes, or Brosius, or Boone, we still win 95 games and beat Boston for the division?

Get real.

No, but if we had Charlie Hayes, Paul O'Neill, Tino Martinez, David Cone, Chad Curtis and Joe Girardi in their 40's and still playing for the Yankees last year then yes. :smile:

[MSUJet85]

MSUJet made it so he deserves the credit.
Nah I don't deserve the credit, I don't know a thing about photoshop, give the props for who made it to FITM

[JetsVilma28]

I would love to see A Rod traded. He has never been clutch, for us!

[AMJets]

I would love to see A Rod traded. He has never been clutch, for us!

Never, as in not one single time?

[BIG COUNTRY]

Never, as in not one single time?
He's been clutch for us maybe 5 times in the last 2.5 years, that's certainly not enough for the amount of money he's being paid. Id much rather have a player like Broscious for $3 million who hits around .290 with 18 homers however he comes through in big situations. Much better than someone like A-rod who boosts his stats in the 4th inning of a 12-0 game, and every 3 months will get 1 base hit after the 7th inning.

[nyjunc]

So you think if you take out A-Rod and replace him with Hayes, or Brosius, or Boone, we still win 95 games and beat Boston for the division?

Get real.

Absolutely. Hayes & brosius specifically came through numerous times for us, boone obviously the one time but a full season i think he would have been ok. I am pissed at Boone for playing pickup basketball b/c if he doesn't get hurt we don't get ARod.

You don't need All-Stars at every position. Going position by position you could say we were better the last few years than we were in the dynasty years but our parts fit back then and they don't now.

[AMJets]

Absolutely. Hayes & brosius specifically came through numerous times for us, boone obviously the one time but a full season i think he would have been ok. I am pissed at Boone for playing pickup basketball b/c if he doesn't get hurt we don't get ARod.

You don't need All-Stars at every position. Going position by position you could say we were better the last few years than we were in the dynasty years but our parts fit back then and they don't now.

So you think that by replacing .320-48-130 with .260-15-60, we still win 95 games? It doesn't matter how "clutch" they are compared to A-Rod, you don't replace that kind of production and still win the same amount of games.

[nyjunc]

So you think that by replacing .320-48-130 with .260-15-60, we still win 95 games? It doesn't matter how "clutch" they are compared to A-Rod, you don't replace that kind of production and still win the same amount of games.

Considering most of those #s came in meaningless situations the answer is YES. We didn't need alot of his production, did we need his 2 run HR last night? Did we need him to go 3 for 5 w/ a HR, 3 RBI and 5 runs scored in the 19-8 win in Game 3 of the '04 ALCS? Take away his 5 runs scored and 3 RBi and we still have 11 runs. we need a guy that will come throuhg in a situation like sun Night or in a situation like game 5 in Anaheim but instead he grounds into DPs. The only times he won't K looking are the times he can ground into a DP.

[AMJets]

Considering most of those #s came in meaningless situations the answer is YES. We didn't need alot of his production, did we need his 2 run HR last night? Did we need him to go 3 for 5 w/ a HR, 3 RBI and 5 runs scored in the 19-8 win in Game 3 of the '04 ALCS? Take away his 5 runs scored and 3 RBi and we still have 11 runs. we need a guy that will come throuhg in a situation like sun Night or in a situation like game 5 in Anaheim but instead he grounds into DPs. The only times he won't K looking are the times he can ground into a DP.

You didn't answer the question that was asked. My question was, if you replace 125 runs scored, and .320-48-130, with 60 runs scored and .260-15-60, do the Yankees still win 95 games?

[3rdAnd15Draw]

we need a guy that will come throuhg in a situation like sun Night or in a situation like game 5 in Anaheim but instead he grounds into DPs. The only times he won't K looking are the times he can ground into a DP.

But a guy who is dramatically worse then A-Rod over the course of an 162 game season is more likely to come through in a situation like this? How do you arrive at this conclusion?

[nyjunc]

You didn't answer the question that was asked. My question was, if you replace 125 runs scored, and .320-48-130, with 60 runs scored and .260-15-60, do the Yankees still win 95 games?

YES! most of ARod's #s are compiled in meaningless situations.

But a guy who is dramatically worse then A-Rod over the course of an 162 game season is more likely to come through in a situation like this? How do you arrive at this conclusion?

it's not a guarantee but a guy like Brosius did it and if we didn't have a player who could do what Brosius did then at least we would not be counting on them to produce like we are w/ ARod. ARod not producing kills us, a melky Cabrera type not producing doesn't affect us as much.

[AMJets]

YES! most of ARod's #s are compiled in meaningless situations.

Thank you. I think that's all anyone here needed to know about your argument.

[ButtleMan]

YES! most of ARod's #s are compiled in meaningless situations.





So if the Yankees arent scoring as many runs, how are they winning as many games?

[AMJets]

So if the Yankees arent scoring as many runs, how are they winning as many games?

Ho ho ho, it's magic!
You know
Never believe it's not so

Seriously though, junc sometimes gets so crazy with his arguments that he doesn't realize what he says defies all laws.

[Sundayjack]

The physics of it all just boggles my mind. You'd think that, as close as they are, some of Jeter's clutchness would fall off and stick to A-Hole's shoes; or, conversely, some of A-Hole's chokeness would waft-up into Jeter's nostrils and clog his clutchness organ.






__________________________________________________ _________________________

Last edited by Luis Tiant : 05-05-2005 at 01:59 PM.

[AMJets]

__________________________________________________ _________________________

Last edited by Luis Tiant : 05-05-2005 at 01:59 PM.

:rofl: :rofl2:

[3rdAnd15Draw]

it's not a guarantee but a guy like Brosius did it and if we didn't have a player who could do what Brosius did then at least we would not be counting on them to produce like we are w/ ARod. ARod not producing kills us, a melky Cabrera type not producing doesn't affect us as much.

so A-Rod was "not producing" last year yet he managed to win the AL MVP Award? that's a pretty neat trick. your "always fails in the clutch" claims are dubious enough, but to say that A-Rod didn't produce last year is pure fantasy.

[Dierking]

You don't need All-Stars at every position. Going position by position you could say we were better the last few years than we were in the dynasty years but our parts fit back then and they don't now.

Actually, I think this is really the problem with the A-Rod era yanks. Not so much that he's not clutch, but that he can't get Ortiz and Ramirez out with. Just like the rest of the pitching staff. They'd be much better with a lights out staff and some serviceable stiff at third who can make some plays and get a big hit every now and then.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

I agree with junc here. Arod may hit 45 HR with 150 RBI, but if he hits 30, 100 of them in 15-4 games, who cares? At the end of the year he'll have the HR and 2 RBI added to his stats, but did they help the Yankees at all? If it's 10-3 Yankees and he hits a grand slam, and they win 14-3, do those numbers matter? THAT is why Ortiz should have been the MVP last year, because his numbers came when they mattered and were valuable to the team.

[MisterMoss]

I'm with junc on this one to a degree. I'll take Brosius over A-Rod because he's more usefull in clutch situations, and we could reinvest that 20 million dollar gap in salaries into other pressing situations.

[Ryan]

GO ROCKIES
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
:breakdance:

[AMJets]

I agree with junc here. Arod may hit 45 HR with 150 RBI, but if he hits 30, 100 of them in 15-4 games, who cares? At the end of the year he'll have the HR and 2 RBI added to his stats, but did they help the Yankees at all? If it's 10-3 Yankees and he hits a grand slam, and they win 14-3, do those numbers matter? THAT is why Ortiz should have been the MVP last year, because his numbers came when they mattered and were valuable to the team.

So then you're saying all of Brosius' 60 RBIs would either tie the game or put the Yankees ahead? That's the only way it could even be scientifically possible for the Yankees to still win the same amount of games, nearly every single one of his runs would have to be the tying or lead run.

[wildthing2022000]

and just think he could of been on the Red Sox just like that, may of been bad then but it looks so sweet now(thanks players union).

[nyjunc]

So if the Yankees arent scoring as many runs, how are they winning as many games?

Instead of winning 9-3 they win 6 or 7-3. 90% of ARod's #s come in blowout gams one way or the other.

so A-Rod was "not producing" last year yet he managed to win the AL MVP Award?

Did he get some clutch hits? sure but not nearly enough to be the real MVP which should have gone to Ortiz. ARod had better #s but ortiz delivered when his team needed him most.

So then you're saying all of Brosius' 60 RBIs would either tie the game or put the Yankees ahead? That's the only way it could even be scientifically possible for the Yankees to still win the same amount of games, nearly every single one of his runs would have to be the tying or lead run.

You don't get it. Brosius doesn't have to come through every time, he wasn't the supposed best player on our team. the team wasn't dependant upon him like they are w/ ARod. Brosius would get mroe clutch hits than ARod that's for sure.

and just think he could of been on the Red Sox just like that, may of been bad then but it looks so sweet now(thanks players union).


think of what might have been, ARod gos to Boston, Schilling becomes a Yank and the curse lives on while we have #27 in the trophy room.

[AMJets]

You don't get it. Brosius doesn't have to come through every time, he wasn't the supposed best player on our team. the team wasn't dependant upon him like they are w/ ARod. Brosius would get mroe clutch hits than ARod that's for sure.

You're actually the one that doesn't get it. It's becoming quite comical.

All things remaining equal with the entire team, except you remove A-Rod and put in Scott Brosius over the course of the ENTIRE SEASON, which is 65 less runs produced, and the Yankees don't win 95 games. That's not a point you can argue, it's impossible for the Yankees to win the same amount of games as they did, but score 65 less runs. Impossible. Stop avoiding that fact, which is what you have done. It is not at all possible for the Yankees to win 95 or more games by losing 65 runs scored.

[nyjunc]

You're actually the one that doesn't get it. It's becoming quite comical.

All things remaining equal with the entire team, except you remove A-Rod and put in Scott Brosius over the course of the ENTIRE SEASON, which is 65 less runs produced, and the Yankees don't win 95 games. That's not a point you can argue, it's impossible for the Yankees to win the same amount of games as they did, but score 65 less runs. Impossible. Stop avoiding that fact, which is what you have done. It is not at all possible for the Yankees to win 95 or more games by losing 65 runs scored.

If most of ARod's runs produced come in blowouts(for or against) how does that help us win? Brosius would contribute in closer games unlike ARod.

How did we ever manage to win w/o ARod? last I checkled we had been to 5 of 6 WS including the precious year before ARod got here. How did we do it w/o all his "runs produced"? where would this franchise be w/o ARod "carrying us" to the playoffs last year? :lol:

[AMJets]

If most of ARod's runs produced come in blowouts(for or against) how does that help us win? Brosius would contribute in closer games unlike ARod.

How did we ever manage to win w/o ARod? last I checkled we had been to 5 of 6 WS including the precious year before ARod got here. How did we do it w/o all his "runs produced"? where would this franchise be w/o ARod "carrying us" to the playoffs last year? :lol:

I think our ability to get to the WS before A-Rod got here had a little bit to do with the fact that our pitching overall was better from 1996-2003, than it was in 2004 and 2005. But I'm sure you'll argue that one too, since that's all you do is argue.

[nyjunc]

I think our ability to get to the WS before A-Rod got here had a little bit to do with the fact that our pitching overall was better from 1996-2003, than it was in 2004 and 2005. But I'm sure you'll argue that one too, since that's all you do is argue.

Interesting fact, we had a better tam ERA in 2004 & 2005 than we did in 2000. Why did we win the WS in 2000 and not come close the last 2 years?

[AMJets]

Interesting fact, we had a better tam ERA in 2004 & 2005 than we did in 2000. Why did we win the WS in 2000 and not come close the last 2 years?

Well, we won 8 more games in 2005 and 14 more in 2004, but also:

2000 ALDS ERA: 4.70
2000 ALCS ERA: 3.06
2000 WS ERA: 2.68

2004 ALDS ERA: 3.73
2004 ALCS ERA: 5.30

2005 ALDS ERA: 4.40

I'd say our pitching was better overall in the 2000 postseason than in '04 or '05.

Also, super-clutch Scott Brosius hit .229 in the 2000 postseason.

[nyjunc]

Well, we won 8 more games in 2005 and 14 more in 2004, but also:

2000 ALDS ERA: 4.70
2000 ALCS ERA: 3.06
2000 WS ERA: 2.68

2004 ALDS ERA: 3.73
2004 ALCS ERA: 5.30

2005 ALDS ERA: 4.40

I'd say our pitching was better overall in the 2000 postseason than in '04 or '05.

Also, super-clutch Scott Brosius hit .229 in the 2000 postseason.

maybe if our bats could have come through and taken some pressure off our pitchers things could have been different.


You are going to look at Brosius' average and tell me if he was clutch?

-In game 2 of the ALCS w/ the Yanks down a run in the series and down 1-0 in the 7th brosius singled to get us started but was pinch run for and we couldn't get the runner home.

-In game 3 w/ the yanks up 2-1 brosius singled to start the 3rd and came around to score. yanks eventually won 8-2 so the 3rd run was the final run we needed.

-In game 4 w/ no score and 2 out brosius got a hit to start things off in an inning we'd score 3 and w/ the way Clemens pitched that night 1 run and the game was over.

-Game 2 of the WS Brosius homered in the 2nd inning to give the Yanks a 3-0 lead(was 2-0 going into the AB), had 2 RBI(2 more than ARod in the entire '05 ALDS).

-Game 4, had sac fly in 2nd inning and we won the game 3-2.

-Game 5, in the 9th inning tied 2-2 after posada walked he singled w/ 2 outs and would come around for our 4th run and help us clinch #26.

I don't care what his average was, he came through for us. if he came through one time it was one more than ARod last year vs. LAA but he came through numerous times. by the way, since you are looking at average in the WS he batted .308.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

so does a-rods hr last night count junc? elias wants to know

[nyjunc]

so does a-rods hr last night count junc? elias wants to know

Is it clutch? I don't think so, up 4-1 takes away the clutch but he did do his job so I am happy.

[nyjunc]

By the way clutch was reyes' HR or beltran's HR, ARod was just doing his job in that situation- nothing extraordinary.

[KOZ]

If you could turn back the clock and sign up David Wright as a rookie, or stay with A-Rod, what do you do?

[nyjunc]

If you could turn back the clock and sign up David Wright as a rookie, or stay with A-Rod, what do you do?

It's still early in Wright's career but I think I go w/ Wright. He's not going to put up ARod #s and isn't as good defensively but he has shown that he plays well under pressure. I wish we could go back and keep Aaron Boone off the basketball court and we wouldn't be in this mess. of course ARod still has a chance to turn it around, if we make it to October and he does what he's supposed to do all will be forgiven. I hope that day comes.

[ButtleMan]

Arod HR last night just shows you that every run is needed, regardless of the score.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

You're actually the one that doesn't get it. It's becoming quite comical.

All things remaining equal with the entire team, except you remove A-Rod and put in Scott Brosius over the course of the ENTIRE SEASON, which is 65 less runs produced, and the Yankees don't win 95 games. That's not a point you can argue, it's impossible for the Yankees to win the same amount of games as they did, but score 65 less runs. Impossible. Stop avoiding that fact, which is what you have done. It is not at all possible for the Yankees to win 95 or more games by losing 65 runs scored.

It actually is. If you win games 6-4 or 5-4 (which is the average from last year and then the average taking away 65 runs), you are still winning. Those 65 runs may affect the MARGIN of victory, but it doesn't nessicarrily affect the NUMBER of victories.

[ButtleMan]

It actually is. If you win games 6-4 or 5-4 (which is the average from last year and then the average taking away 65 runs), you are still winning. Those 65 runs may affect the MARGIN of victory, but it doesn't nessicarrily affect the NUMBER of victories.

That all depends on just how many games were 1 run games, 2 run games etc and what he did in those games and the situations.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

I know, but to say it's not possible and try to insult the intelligence of anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. You're right, it totally depends on the situation, which is the point. Arod seems to hit most of his home runs in situations that don't affect the outcome of the game.

[ButtleMan]

Arod seems to hit most of his home runs in situations that don't affect the outcome of the game.

That is the key word in the phrase Devil. Seems.
By all right, last nights HR seemed to be one of the wasteful HR/RBI's that everyone has been harping about but it ended up being necessary.
Obviously games dont get to be 14-3 without several players doing something after the game has been put out of reach, but any baseball person will tell you that each run is needed. Proof of this is the past week where several teams have come back from serious defecits.
Temas dont stop playing just because they are down or up by several runs.

"It aint over till its over"

[BIG COUNTRY]

If you could turn back the clock and sign up David Wright as a rookie, or stay with A-Rod, what do you do?
David Wright, plus Wright is clutch, A-rod is a better fielder(not by much) and Wright wont put up A-rod numbers but in the clutch Wright would be much better.

A-rod did his job last night, Ive been very dissapointed with him but he did well yesterday. There was importance in that so Im happy. Im not mad when he gets homeruns in 10-2 games however Im mad about him not getting those hits in 2-1 games or hits in a somewhat clutch situation. Overall though I would definitely take Broscious in the post-season and for the regular season Broscious with a lot more money to invest in a pitcher or something.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

I know, but to say it's not possible and try to insult the intelligence of anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. You're right, it totally depends on the situation, which is the point. Arod seems to hit most of his home runs in situations that don't affect the outcome of the game.

Anything is "possible". However the fact is it's quite unlikely. As I said yesterday I'm not a huge pyth record believer but I think it's appropriate for this discussion. The Yankees had an "expected" record of 90-72 based on their RS/RA last year, if you take 65 runs off that total the expected record drops to 85-77.

The fact that the Yankees were +5 over their expected record shows that they were either lucky or good in close games, whatever you want to believe. Saying that the Yankees could shave 65 runs off their total and they would be even luckier/better in close games is a dubious claim, IMO.

[devilonthetownhallroof]

I'm not saying they WOULD have won the same number of games, I just am saying it's POSSIBLE.

[AMJets]

Is it clutch? I don't think so, up 4-1 takes away the clutch but he did do his job so I am happy.

A 4-1 game against the Red Sox in Fenway is more like a 2-1 game against anyone else. Not to mention the Yankees lose that game if he doesn't hit that HR.

[AMJets]

I'm not saying they WOULD have won the same number of games, I just am saying it's POSSIBLE.

You're right, there's about a .1 percent chance. :rofl2:

By saying the Yankees still win the same number of games by taking away 65 runs, you're assuming that nearly every single run that Brosius scores either ties the game or gives his team the lead. You're also assuming that nearly every single run A-Rod scores doesn't tie the game, or give them the lead.

Your argument is now just coming down to semantics. Maybe it's not completely 100% impossible, but the chances of it ever happening, ever, are less that 1%.

[ButtleMan]

Its also assuming that every single one of those 65 "extra' runs comes off in games that are blowouts either way which wouldnt necessarily happen.

[EcKo151]

.330 8 HR 28 RBI...OPS of over 1000...In May. On pace for 40+ HR's and 130+ RBI's...

With some clutch hits as well.

Put your Hater-Blocker on junc

[AMJets]

It's May. It doesn't count.

By the way, Scott Brosius would have had an OPS of 2.000... and he would've found Osama Bin Laden... while wearing a blindfold.

[nyjunc]

.330 8 HR 28 RBI...OPS of over 1000...In May. On pace for 40+ HR's and 130+ RBI's...

With some clutch hits as well.

Put your Hater-Blocker on junc

"some" clutch hits, one every 2 weeks doesn't cut it. I'll take 10 less HRs and 20 less RBI if when he does get them they are in big spots. he's been a little better of late, still not where he needs to be but hopefully getting there.

[28rogerblaze51]

Arod is upsetting but hopefully he can turn it around this season and actually show up in the playoffs... Im glad to see the yankees winning without alot of our big bats... Woah imagine if we were healthy..

[ButtleMan]

Yankees dont win last night without A-rod.

[Crapshooter]

I don't care what his average was, he came through for us. if he came through one time it was one more than ARod last year vs. LAA but he came through numerous times. by the way, since you are looking at average in the WS he batted .308.

Lifetime Yankee fan here. I have to laugh at this A-Rod hating and comparing him to Scott "Clutch" Brosius and that he's the reason for all the Yankee woes for not winning the WS the past six years.

Until A-Rod hits one of those effin Jor Carter type WS homers some people will never get off his back.

Let's look at A-Rod's numbers versus some "clutch" Yankees"

Brosius Lifetime numbers:
141 HR 531RBI .257 AVG. .323 OBP .422 SLG

Derek Jeter career numbers:
169 HR 763 RBI .314 AVG .386 OBP .461 SLG

A-Rod Career
429 HR 1226 RBI .307 AVG. .385 OBP .577 SLG

All numbers over each 11-12 year career span. Now, even though Brosius and Jeter COMBINED have less HR and RBI than A-Rod, they each supposedly had more meaningful hits than A-Rod? None of A-Rod's hits', HR, or RBIs were clutch? None won a game or put one out of reach?

Oh, but we're talking Post Season, I guess which is much more important. Okay, let's look at career post season numbers:

Brosius:
58 Games 8HR 30 RBI .245 AVG. .278 OBP .418 SLG

Jeter:
115 Games 16HR 47 RBI .307 AVG. .379 OBP .463 SLG

A-Rod
31 Games 6HR 16 RBI .305 AVG. .393 OBP .534 SLG

Doesn't seem like A-Rod's post season numbers are too shabby to me. But it seems Junc and the media would like to trade him because of his performance against the Angels alone.

Now I don't have a tenth of the memory Junc has and living out of state I don't get to see all these A-Rod failures, but I do remember this. How about A-Rod in 2000 against the Yankees?

Jesus, in Game 1 he hit that homer that had another zip code on it if it didn't hit that left field foul pole! I forget who he hit it off of but he crushed that thing! Since that was a 2-0 Seattle win does that count for clutch? If his teammates did ANYTHING during that series we would have never won it with the way he was hitting. What else did he do that series? Just 2HR, 5 RBI batted .409, .480 OBP and a .773 SLG. Looked like a real slouch there, huh?

I just find it hard to believe that a future, first ballot HOF'er and reigning MVP has had no meaningful hits. He's been, at the least, the 2nd best ballplayer in ALL of baseball throughout his career! One could argue that Jeter, who's paid just a few million shy of him, has never even been the 2nd best player at his position throughout his career. Let's not forget, the best SS in the game, moved to third so as not to hurt the fragile ego of maybe the 4th best SS in the game at the time.

What the hell is a clutch hit anyway? Is it even measurable? Our reason for not winning a WS is not because of A-Rod I know that.

Same old A-Rod? 31 other GM's would LOVE to have that same old A-Rod over Jeter and Brosius.

Ah, anyway, I still enjoy reading this thread and always look forward to Junc's updates on A-Rod's failures. :smile:

[nyjunc]

You can give me #s all you want, #s don't tell the whole story. It's when those #s are eraned, since ARod's been a Yankee he had 1 good series against the twins while flopping against Boston and was a complete disgrace against Anaheim last year. He had some good postseasons w/ Seattle but so far he hasn't here and that's what counts. Brosius may not have hit .340 in the postseason but he delivered in big spots more often than not which cannot be said for ARod.

[AMJets]

Yep, like if you took 65 runs away from the Yankees last year, they win as many, maybe even MORE games. Because, as we all know, every single run that Scott Brosius scores gives the Yankees the lead. :rofl2:

Crapshooter, I recommend you just continue reading, don't get involved. If there's one thing on this board that Yankees and Mets fans can agree on, it's that junc is, shall we say, "out there".

[FirstTimeCaller]

It's May. It doesn't count.

By the way, Scott Brosius would have had an OPS of 2.000... and he would've found Osama Bin Laden... while wearing a blindfold.

Well just to throw a little fuel on the fire.... if the yanks record and Jeter's stats didn't mean anything in May of last year why should Arods stats in May of this year mean anything?

[AMJets]

Well just to throw a little fuel on the fire.... if the yanks record and Jeter's stats didn't mean anything in May of last year why should Arods stats in May of this year mean anything?

I never said they didn't mean anything. Games in May are just as important as games in September. When it came to Jeter's bad start in 2004, and the Yankees bad record to start last year, I knew that both were better than they were showing. With A-Rod, he's been one of the best hitters in baseball in May, like he should be. But they both mean something, obviously.

[nyjunc]

Yep, like if you took 65 runs away from the Yankees last year, they win as many, maybe even MORE games. Because, as we all know, every single run that Scott Brosius scores gives the Yankees the lead. :rofl2:

Crapshooter, I recommend you just continue reading, don't get involved. If there's one thing on this board that Yankees and Mets fans can agree on, it's that junc is, shall we say, "out there".

ARod is the greatest! every los is Torre's fault! What has Joe ever done for us while Aklex has come through time after time:rofl:

If by out there you mean I know what I'm talking about then yeah I'd agree most folks would think that of me. You are satisfied w/ losing and that's ok, the World needs people like that but I want to win and want my best players to contribute to that and to come through more often than not.

What you fail to comprehend is that b/c ARod is a top player in the game standards are much higher for him than normal players. It's like if you take 2 kids, 1 is a straight A student and never gets B's while the other is a C student who never gets B's. They both bring their report Card home to their parents and both get B's. Well the straight A student's parents will be upset b/c he set a high standard while the C student's parents will buy him a new car they are so thrilled.

Well just to throw a little fuel on the fire.... if the yanks record and Jeter's stats didn't mean anything in May of last year why should Arods stats in May of this year mean anything?

I don't care about stats, I care about how those stats are accumulated. it's meaningless to hit a HR in the 9th down 9-1. I want more HR's like the one that broke the tie in the 7th a few weeks ago.

[Crapshooter]

You can give me #s all you want, #s don't tell the whole story. It's when those #s are eraned, since ARod's been a Yankee he had 1 good series against the twins while flopping against Boston and was a complete disgrace against Anaheim last year. He had some good postseasons w/ Seattle but so far he hasn't here and that's what counts. Brosius may not have hit .340 in the postseason but he delivered in big spots more often than not which cannot be said for ARod.

Don't give you numbers?!! Really, Junc, that's pretty funny coming from a guy who continually used the infamous refrain, "Herm Edwards took us to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years" and other references to his stats when defending your position for him with other members of this forum throughout the football season.

I'll agree his .130 something average was pretty disappointing for a player of his caliber, but didn't our pitching have a lot to do with blowing that series? Christ, Bengie Molina, of all people, had a feast on it. You crucify A-Rod for the LAA series? Do you hold Jeter to the same standard for his 04 Boston Series? Where was Jeter in our WS loss to the D-Backs?

Like the other poster suggested I'll continue to read this thread. It's hysterical. Keep me posted on those A-Rod failures Junc. Like I said, I live out of state and see so few games now. Although, I did happen to catch A-Rod throwing on the mound last night in the 9th against the Tigers on ESPN. :wink:

[ButtleMan]

Don't give you numbers?!! Really, Junc, that's pretty funny coming from a guy who continually used the infamous refrain, "Herm Edwards took us to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years" and other references to his stats when defending your position for him with other members of this forum throughout the football season.

I'll agree his .130 something average was pretty disappointing for a player of his caliber, but didn't our pitching have a lot to do with blowing that series? Christ, Bengie Molina, of all people, had a feast on it. You crucify A-Rod for the LAA series? Do you hold Jeter to the same standard for his 04 Boston Series? Where was Jeter in our WS loss to the D-Backs?

Like the other poster suggested I'll continue to read this thread. It's hysterical. Keep me posted on those A-Rod failures Junc. Like I said, I live out of state and see so few games now. Although, I did happen to catch A-Rod throwing on the mound last night in the 9th against the Tigers on ESPN. :wink:

But A-rod did go 0-3 with 2 k's yesterday, so it was his fault. You can just toss out the 2 walks he got and the run he scored though. :wink:

[Crapshooter]

But A-rod did go 0-3 with 2 k's yesterday, so it was his fault. You can just toss out the 2 walks he got and the run he scored though. :wink:

LOL, I really was expecting Junc to shove that up my rectum first. Thanks Buttle. Yes, it was also A-Rod's fault he didn't hit a 3-run HR somewhere after Giambi's shot to put the game out of reach for us.:)

[AMJets]

What you fail to comprehend is that b/c ARod is a top player in the game standards are much higher for him than normal players. It's like if you take 2 kids, 1 is a straight A student and never gets B's while the other is a C student who never gets B's. They both bring their report Card home to their parents and both get B's. Well the straight A student's parents will be upset b/c he set a high standard while the C student's parents will buy him a new car they are so thrilled.

WTF!? No wonder you loved Herm. Next thing you'll tell me is that Scott Brosius is a bowling ball full of butcher knives. :rofl:

[nyjunc]

Don't give you numbers?!! Really, Junc, that's pretty funny coming from a guy who continually used the infamous refrain, "Herm Edwards took us to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years" and other references to his stats when defending your position for him with other members of this forum throughout the football season.

I'll agree his .130 something average was pretty disappointing for a player of his caliber, but didn't our pitching have a lot to do with blowing that series? Christ, Bengie Molina, of all people, had a feast on it. You crucify A-Rod for the LAA series? Do you hold Jeter to the same standard for his 04 Boston Series? Where was Jeter in our WS loss to the D-Backs?

Like the other poster suggested I'll continue to read this thread. It's hysterical. Keep me posted on those A-Rod failures Junc. Like I said, I live out of state and see so few games now. Although, I did happen to catch A-Rod throwing on the mound last night in the 9th against the Tigers on ESPN. :wink:

Herm was about TEAM wins, ARod is about individual #s. Herm guided us to 3 PO appearances in 5 years and prior to him we made it once in 9 years and 8 times TOTAL. How can you compare that w/ ARod's failures in the clutch?

You guys are comical, hey as long as ARod keeps putting up "great #s" we'll be ok. I forgot this was the NY ARod's not the NY Yankees so as long as he puts up great #s we should all be very happy:rofl:

[AMJets]

The comical thing is that you actually believe your opinion overrules mathematical law.

[ButtleMan]

Herm was about TEAM wins, ARod is about individual #s. Herm guided us to 3 PO appearances in 5 years and prior to him we made it once in 9 years and 8 times TOTAL. How can you compare that w/ ARod's failures in the clutch?

You guys are comical, hey as long as ARod keeps putting up "great #s" we'll be ok. I forgot this was the NY ARod's not the NY Yankees so as long as he puts up great #s we should all be very happy:rofl:


No, as long as the Yankees win, regardless of A-rods numbers, we should all be happy.

[AMJets]

A-Rod out tonight with a stomach virus. What an un-clutch player.

Scott Brosius would have played. Scott Brosius would have thrown up on the field. That Scott Brosius throw up would produce three clutch runs.

[BIG COUNTRY]

Herm was about TEAM wins, ARod is about individual #s. Herm guided us to 3 PO appearances in 5 years and prior to him we made it once in 9 years and 8 times TOTAL. How can you compare that w/ ARod's failures in the clutch?

You guys are comical, hey as long as ARod keeps putting up "great #s" we'll be ok. I forgot this was the NY ARod's not the NY Yankees so as long as he puts up great #s we should all be very happy:rofl:
Herm sucks, he choked in the clutch more than A-rod, the biggest play we needed from Herm ended up being a kneel. At least A-rod tries(Even though he fails in big situations).

[nyjunc]

No, as long as the Yankees win, regardless of A-rods numbers, we should all be happy.

Absolutely but w/o ARod being as good as he can be it makes it alot more difficult for us to win in october. We rely on him which is why I complain about him alot.

Herm sucks, he choked in the clutch more than A-rod, the biggest play we needed from Herm ended up being a kneel. At least A-rod tries(Even though he fails in big situations).


I must have missed it when Herm missed thoe 2 kicks. The bottom line is the Jets IMPROVED under Herm from the team he took over, the Yanks have gotten worse since ARod and his failures in big spots have been a big reason why.

[AMJets]

I must have missed it when Herm missed thoe 2 kicks. The bottom line is the Jets IMPROVED under Herm from the team he took over, the Yanks have gotten worse since ARod and his failures in big spots have been a big reason why.

So you think the team Herm took over is worse than the one he left behind? :rofl2:

[EcKo151]

ARod is about individual #s.
What are you talking about? ARod is all about winning 1st...Hell, he left Texas so he could WIN...He said he was happy about his MVP, but would rather have the ring Ortiz has...

Yet, he's all about individual numbers...So, he doesn't care about a World Series and wanting to win? Just about individual numbers?:rofl2:

[nyjunc]

So you think the team Herm took over is worse than the one he left behind? :rofl2:

Was herm the GM? and Herm took over a situation where the team had msised the playofffs 2 straight years and 8 of 9 years and in 5 years made almost half as many PO appearances as the franchise had in the 40+ years prior to his arrival.

What are you talking about? ARod is all about winning 1st...Hell, he left Texas so he could WIN...He said he was happy about his MVP, but would rather have the ring Ortiz has...


Everybody WANTS to win in theory but if that was the case then maybe he would have stayed in Seattle where they had just come off an ALCS appearance instead of going to a bad Texas team w/ no future. Then instead of committing to the team that gave him that money he wanted to go to a ready made team to win and that still didn't work out. Let's recap- had great situation in Seattle then left, couldn't handle rebuilding in Texas then left, wanted to piggy back to a World Championship but so far hasn't happened. I don't blame him for leaving Seattle for the contract he got but you can't tell me he placed a higher emphasis on winning than getting paid.

[BIG COUNTRY]

I must have missed it when Herm missed thoe 2 kicks. The bottom line is the Jets IMPROVED under Herm from the team he took over, the Yanks have gotten worse since ARod and his failures in big spots have been a big reason why.
:lol: You gotta be kidding me. Last year's team was better than the team he took over:rofl2: We're rebuilding now because of Herm and our o-line was shot. C-Mart was overused. The first Herm team was a good team, the team he left us was horrible, we declined, there is no way we improved. The team that was there before Herm came was 9-7. Last year we were 4-12, I dont see that as an improvement. Answer this NYJUNC, is a 4-12 team an improvement over a 9-7 team?

[nyjunc]

You gotta be kidding me. Last year's team was better than the team he took over

First off last year we sucked b/c of injuries, injuries I haven't seen any team in my life go through. Secondly I said we improved under Herm, I didn't say we were better today than 5 years ago, we went from missing the playoffs 2 straight years and 8 of 9 to making it 3 of 4- isn't that getting better?

We're rebuilding now because of Herm and our o-line was shot. C-Mart was overused. The first Herm team was a good team, the team he left us was horrible, we declined, there is no way we improved. The team that was there before Herm came was 9-7. Last year we were 4-12, I dont see that as an improvement. Answer this NYJUNC, is a 4-12 team an improvement over a 9-7 team?


read my response above. Answer me this, was Herm our GM? How can he be blamed if the level of talent isn't as high? and oh by the way the cupboard is FAR from bare, we won't be great this year but we have a bunch of building blocks and we won't be down for long.

[BIG COUNTRY]

First off last year we sucked b/c of injuries, injuries I haven't seen any team in my life go through. Secondly I said we improved under Herm, I didn't say we were better today than 5 years ago, we went from missing the playoffs 2 straight years and 8 of 9 to making it 3 of 4- isn't that getting better?



read my response above. Answer me this, was Herm our GM? How can he be blamed if the level of talent isn't as high? and oh by the way the cupboard is FAR from bare, we won't be great this year but we have a bunch of building blocks and we won't be down for long.
Hang on but you said we improved under him. Bradway was a bad GM however you said we basically improved which we did not. We got worse, even if we have no injuries this year we arent expected to do well, so injuries should be thrown out the window. You did say we are better today than 5 years ago, you said we constantly improved so that means he would have left us with a better team than the one he took over.

We have tons of building blocks but that is thanks to our new GM. Bradway did have Vilma but his screw-ups definitely outweigh the good moves. KC is gonna be one of the worst teams in the league now in a few years. Also many of last year's injuries happened because of Herm's camp-joy joy.

[AMJets]

You have to love people that defend a barely average HC to no end, but constantly bashes one of the most naturally talented baseball players that has played the game.

junc hearts mediocrity.

[FirstTimeCaller]

All this Yankee cannibalism is awesome...

Have to say I agree with Junc's stance on A-rod jumping teams... it's BS if you ask me. If all he wanted to do was win, he could have stayed in SEA... really all he wanted was the money... which is his prerogative. However to come out a few seasons later and walk out on Texas just so he could "win" in total garbage in my opinion.

[nyjunc]

Hang on but you said we improved under him.

Are you saying we didn't? Did we get worse by appearing in the playoffs almost half as many times in 5 years as the franchise did for over 40 yrs before Herm?

You did say we are better today than 5 years ago

Show me where I said that?

We have tons of building blocks but that is thanks to our new GM.

the new regime was left w/ Jones, Moore, Kendall, Coles, McCareins, Baker, Blaylock, Houston, Askew, Graham, Nugent, Robertson, Thomas, Vilma, Barton, hobson, Miller, Rhodes, Coleman, Strait and others. The new regime was left w/ alot of talent. Let's not act like this is the '89 Jets.

You have to love people that defend a barely average HC to no end, but constantly bashes one of the most naturally talented baseball players that has played the game.

junc hearts mediocrity.

Some of us aren't in awe of meaningless fantasy #s and actually want to win. Herm comes into a situation where the jets missed the playoffs 2 straight years and 8 of 9 and guides us there 3 times in his first 4 years including only our 2nd EVER AFC East Title. ARod is SUPPOSED to be our best player but fails in the clutch time after time, he came to an AL pennat winning team and last I checked we havn't got back to the WS w/ him and he has been horrible in the postseason outside of a few games against Minnesota.

Herm didn't come in as the best Coach in the NFL, ARod came in as the best(or at worst top 3) players in baseball. herm improved us, ARod puts up fanatsy #s but sucks when we need him most.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Some of us aren't in awe of meaningless fantasy #s and actually want to win.

this is the junc special right here. if you don't believe that the yankees would've won as many(or more) games with brosius at 3b instead of a-rod you're in awe of meaningless fantasy numbers and don't want your team to win.

un fucking believable

[BIG COUNTRY]

Herm didn't come in as the best Coach in the NFL, ARod came in as the best(or at worst top 3) players in baseball. herm improved us, ARod puts up fanatsy #s but sucks when we need him most.
Herm didnt come in as the worst coach in the NFL but after Wannstedt was fired Herm clearly showed his crap stinks.

[nyjunc]

Herm didnt come in as the worst coach in the NFL but after Wannstedt was fired Herm clearly showed his crap stinks.

Of course Herm was the worst, any other Coach we would have won 4 SBs in the last 5 years:rolleyes:

[ButtleMan]

If Arod was all about individual #'s then he would have demanded to play SS to be the best hitting SS ever.
If he was about individual #'s then he would have made the Yankees move Jeter to 3B or 2B.
The fact that he willingly changed positions showed me that it wasnt all about his individual #'s but about getting the chance to win after his debaucle in Texas.

[nyjunc]

If Arod was all about individual #'s then he would have demanded to play SS to be the best hitting SS ever.
If he was about individual #'s then he would have made the Yankees move Jeter to 3B or 2B.
The fact that he willingly changed positions showed me that it wasnt all about his individual #'s but about getting the chance to win after his debaucle in Texas.

Willingly changed positions? He did it b/c he HAD to. He wanted out of texas so badly and the only team he could go to after the Bos trade didn't work out(think about if that worked out, Manny would have been in texas, ARod in Boston and Schilling w/ us- we'd have #27 and the "curse" would still be alive) was to the yankees and there was no way he was moving Jeter. If he even asked he would have been skewered in the media. One thing about ARod is he is very mdia saavy, he knew better to even ask.


Hey did anyone notice that the 2 games ARod sat this weekend we won and the game he playd we lost? I thought we couldn't win w/o him? :grin:

[3rdAnd15Draw]

a-rod was/is a better defensive shortstop then jeter and i don't think even junc would argue this. he shouldn't have had to "ask", it should've been common sense that he would slide in at short and jeter would move.

[nyjunc]

a-rod was/is a better defensive shortstop then jeter and i don't think even junc would argue this. he shouldn't have had to "ask", it should've been common sense that he would slide in at short and jeter would move.

He shoudln't have had to ask? You expect a HOF career, homegrown YANKEE w/ 4 Championships to move for ARod? Give me jeter any day of the week, just like w/ his hitting ARod will put up better #s but then disappear when things get tight- last year against Anaheim he not only killed us w/ his bat but w/ his glove and legs as well. I would NEVER even consider moving jeter from SS, he has earned the rigght to play that position for the Yanks as long as he wants to.

When I was a little younger I didn't apprecitae Jeter either but over the years I have come to appreciate him more and more. I used to think he was #3 behind ARod and Nomar but having watched Nomar through the years(when he was good, before his mini rebirth this year) and now having watched ARod daily there is no question I'd take Jeter over ARod and Nomar in their primes. It's just like I'd take Brady over Manning- Manning puts up great #s but Brady makes plays when his team needs him.

[ButtleMan]

Willingly changed positions? He did it b/c he HAD to. He wanted out of texas so badly and the only team he could go to after the Bos trade didn't work out(think about if that worked out, Manny would have been in texas, ARod in Boston and Schilling w/ us- we'd have #27 and the "curse" would still be alive) was to the yankees and there was no way he was moving Jeter. If he even asked he would have been skewered in the media. One thing about ARod is he is very mdia saavy, he knew better to even ask.


Hey did anyone notice that the 2 games ARod sat this weekend we won and the game he playd we lost? I thought we couldn't win w/o him? :grin:

He didnt do it because he had to Junc. Sorry if you cant see it Junc but Arod was, is and will be a better SS than Jeter. It was Jeter that should have moved willingly for the team but he didnt.
There was no HAD TO, but you are right, he didnt turn it into a Soriano issue and never complaing giving the media nothing to report.
But there was never a HAD TO.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

He shoudln't have had to ask? You expect a HOF career, homegrown YANKEE w/ 4 Championships to move for ARod? Give me jeter any day of the week, just like w/ his hitting ARod will put up better #s but then disappear when things get tight- last year against Anaheim he not only killed us w/ his bat but w/ his glove and legs as well. I would NEVER even consider moving jeter from SS, he has earned the rigght to play that position for the Yanks as long as he wants to.

When I was a little younger I didn't apprecitae Jeter either but over the years I have come to appreciate him more and more. I used to think he was #3 behind ARod and Nomar but having watched Nomar through the years(when he was good, before his mini rebirth this year) and now having watched ARod daily there is no question I'd take Jeter over ARod and Nomar in their primes. It's just like I'd take Brady over Manning- Manning puts up great #s but Brady makes plays when his team needs him.

I thought you were about winning junc? Jeter has earned the "right" to play SS for the Yankees as long as he's the best option to do so.

This is nothing like the Brady/Manning debate either because Jeter and A-Rod can play on the same team.

[nyjunc]

He didnt do it because he had to Junc. Sorry if you cant see it Junc but Arod was, is and will be a better SS than Jeter.

He's a top 5 all time talent player BUT his clutch failures hurt him and I'll take Jeter over him any day.

It was Jeter that should have moved willingly for the team but he didnt.


You think a homegrown future HOF Yankee who was a key to 4 World Series Titles should move his position in the prime of his career? The incumbent keeps his job, If jeter went to texas he'd move to 3rd but when ARod comes here jeter should never have to even think of moving. So if eric Gagne was still in the midst of his great years w/ #s that blow away mariano if we signed Gagne mariano should become the set up man?

[nyjunc]

I thought you were about winning junc? Jeter has earned the "right" to play SS for the Yankees as long as he's the best option to do so.

This is nothing like the Brady/Manning debate either because Jeter and A-Rod can play on the same team.


I am about winning and Jeter always gives my team the best chance to win.

How about my baseball example. What if we signed Gagne after his record setting season wher his #s were far and away better than Mo's. Should Mo have to be the set up man? of course not. Same type of deal w/ Jeter and ARod.

[AMJets]

I thought you were about winning junc? Jeter has earned the "right" to play SS for the Yankees as long as he's the best option to do so.

Logic doesn't exist in junc's world. :rofl:

[3rdAnd15Draw]

I am about winning and Jeter always gives my team the best chance to win.

How about my baseball example. What if we signed Gagne after his record setting season wher his #s were far and away better than Mo's. Should Mo have to be the set up man? of course not. Same type of deal w/ Jeter and ARod.

Your example is once again not even comparable. Besides the fact that Gagne has only had 3 big times years in his career, there's only 1 closer on a team. If Gagne is pitching in the 9th that means Rivera isn't. If A-Rod were playing SS Jeter would still be on the field, and still in the same spot in the batting order. It's simply a matter of passing up a chance to upgrade the most important defensive position in the IF because Jeter had "earned the right" to play there as long as he wanted.

[ButtleMan]

He's a top 5 all time talent player BUT his clutch failures hurt him and I'll take Jeter over him any day.



You think a homegrown future HOF Yankee who was a key to 4 World Series Titles should move his position in the prime of his career? The incumbent keeps his job, If jeter went to texas he'd move to 3rd but when ARod comes here jeter should never have to even think of moving. So if eric Gagne was still in the midst of his great years w/ #s that blow away mariano if we signed Gagne mariano should become the set up man?

The better player should always play their best position.
It doesnt always happen that way though.

And Jeter as a future HOF Yankee who was a key to 4 WS titles should have been a true team captain and Yankee by doing what was best for the team and not himself.

[nyjunc]

Your example is once again not even comparable. Besides the fact that Gagne has only had 3 big times years in his career, there's only 1 closer on a team. If Gagne is pitching in the 9th that means Rivera isn't. If A-Rod were playing SS Jeter would still be on the field, and still in the same spot in the batting order. It's simply a matter of passing up a chance to upgrade the most important defensive position in the IF because Jeter had "earned the right" to play there as long as he wanted.

You act like jeter isn't great, if Jetre wasn't getting the job done and a top SS he would have had to move. We aren't talking about Alvaro Espinoza here, we are talking a lock future 1st ballot HOFer- why should Jeter have to move? and again, ARod has better #s just like on offense but in big games Jeter tends to come through and ARod tends to choke.

How many examples must I come up w/? You get the point. A great player should never have to move positions when another great player is brought into his team.

[nyjunc]

The better player should always play their best position.
It doesnt always happen that way though.

And Jeter as a future HOF Yankee who was a key to 4 WS titles should have been a true team captain and Yankee by doing what was best for the team and not himself.

He is doing what's best for the team. Maybe he wouldn't have made as smooth a transition to 3B as ARod has? As SS's if I have a choice I'll take Jeter every day but even if you think ARod is better I think Jeter at SS and ARod at 3B would be better than ARod at SS and Jeter at 3B. I'm not sure Jeter could make such a smooth transition to 3B.

[ButtleMan]

He is doing what's best for the team. Maybe he wouldn't have made as smooth a transition to 3B as ARod has? As SS's if I have a choice I'll take Jeter every day but even if you think ARod is better I think Jeter at SS and ARod at 3B would be better than ARod at SS and Jeter at 3B. I'm not sure Jeter could make such a smooth transition to 3B.+

I actually thought that Jeter should have gone to 2B.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

You act like jeter isn't great, if Jetre wasn't getting the job done and a top SS he would have had to move. We aren't talking about Alvaro Espinoza here, we are talking a lock future 1st ballot HOFer- why should Jeter have to move? and again, ARod has better #s just like on offense but in big games Jeter tends to come through and ARod tends to choke.

How many examples must I come up w/? You get the point. A great player should never have to move positions when another great player is brought into his team.

Wait...what? So what happens in big spots, all of a sudden Jeter doubles his range and makes clutch plays in the field?

As Jeter is a pretty surehanded fielder and range is his biggest issue at SS I think he would've been a no brainer to slide in at 3rd with A-Rod handled SS. Why don't you think Jeter would've been able to play 3rd?

[nyjunc]

Wait...what? So what happens in big spots, all of a sudden Jeter doubles his range and makes clutch plays in the field?


He has made a ton of great plays but he makes plays period. ARod all of a suddne couldn't field against LAA last year.

As Jeter is a pretty surehanded fielder and range is his biggest issue at SS I think he would've been a no brainer to slide in at 3rd with A-Rod handled SS. Why don't you think Jeter would've been able to play 3rd?

I guess he'd have been able to do it but I think ARod is the better athlete and the transition to 3rd was smoother for him than I think would have been for Jeter. This is and has been jeter's team, that alone would have made it awkward moving our marquee player especially when ARod has been able to handle 3rd for the most part.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

He has made a ton of great plays but he makes plays period. ARod all of a suddne couldn't field against LAA last year.



I guess he'd have been able to do it but I think ARod is the better athlete and the transition to 3rd was smoother for him than I think would have been for Jeter. This is and has been jeter's team, that alone would have made it awkward moving our marquee player especially when ARod has been able to handle 3rd for the most part.

Awkward for who? It really is amazing how you attempt to boil an entire 162+ game season into 5 games at the end of the year.

[nyjunc]

Awkward for who? It really is amazing how you attempt to boil an entire 162+ game season into 5 games at the end of the year.

Those 5 games mean alot more than the other 162. Don't you get it? You are ok w/ guys playing great in the reg season then folding in the playoffs? I'll take less reg season #s and better postseason #s any day, I don't want to see guys dip in the postseason and it's not just 5 games it's about 9 games. Since he went off w/ 3 hits, 3 RBI and a HR in the thrashing of Bos in game 3 of the '04 ALCS he has a total of 4 hits and 2 RBI and since Game 5 of the '04 ALCS he hs 3 hits and ZERO RBI.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

Those 5 games mean alot more than the other 162. Don't you get it? You are ok w/ guys playing great in the reg season then folding in the playoffs? I'll take less reg season #s and better postseason #s any day, I don't want to see guys dip in the postseason and it's not just 5 games it's about 9 games. Since he went off w/ 3 hits, 3 RBI and a HR in the thrashing of Bos in game 3 of the '04 ALCS he has a total of 4 hits and 2 RBI and since Game 5 of the '04 ALCS he hs 3 hits and ZERO RBI.

And what if the lesser regular season numbers mean that you don't make the playoffs? Obviously playing great in both would be preferrable but you can't trash a guy that had a great regular season and a bad series in the playoffs.

[nyjunc]

And what if the lesser regular season numbers mean that you don't make the playoffs? Obviously playing great in both would be preferrable but you can't trash a guy that had a great regular season and a bad series in the playoffs.

We don't know if lesser reg season #s would have meant missing the playoffs. Look at this weekend, he misses 2 of 3 games and we win the 2 he misses and lose the game he plays. Who knows if we would have made it, the chances were still good that someone else could have stepped up and replaced some of his important production and we still make the playoffs and would have had a better chance to beat LAA.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

We don't know if lesser reg season #s would have meant missing the playoffs. Look at this weekend, he misses 2 of 3 games and we win the 2 he misses and lose the game he plays. Who knows if we would have made it, the chances were still good that someone else could have stepped up and replaced some of his important production and we still make the playoffs and would have had a better chance to beat LAA.

And now we're back to the "A-Rod only hits when the Yankees are winning or losing by 7 runs or more" nonsense. It's amazing how circular these arguments always end up.

A-Rod himself probably says it best:

"It'll never stop," he said, "until I win five or six world championships, and hit a Joe Carter home run to win one of them.

"I don't take anything personally. I think it's comical. Anyone who drives in 130 runs has to hit in the clutch. I've done a lot of special things in this game. For none of that to be considered clutch is an injustice."

[EcKo151]

Look at this weekend, he misses 2 of 3 games and we win the 2 he misses and lose the game he plays.
:rofl2: :rofl2: Holy shit bro!! Give it a damn rest! So because ARod was coming back from the flu, we lost? It had nothing to do with Aaron Small, who needs to be sent to Columbus?

That junc, right there is a freaking joke...I'm pretty much speechless I just read that...

Has their EVER been a time with Phins fans, champ, 3rd&15, 10P10, Shade, FTC, Wild...Whoever...That you just said "Your right." Or ever just stop an on-going argument? It's as if you'll never accept being wrong once...

[nyjunc]

And now we're back to the "A-Rod only hits when the Yankees are winning or losing by 7 runs or more" nonsense. It's amazing how circular these arguments always end up.

A-Rod himself probably says it best:

"It'll never stop," he said, "until I win five or six world championships, and hit a Joe Carter home run to win one of them.

"I don't take anything personally. I think it's comical. Anyone who drives in 130 runs has to hit in the clutch. I've done a lot of special things in this game. For none of that to be considered clutch is an injustice."

Does he get some clutch hits and help us win? Absolutely it's just few and far between and he does most of his damage when we are up by alot or down by alot. he doen't need a Joe Carter moment, he needs to have a good postseason and help us win. people forgte really quick, remember how tino was bashed around here until he hit that HR in the '98 WS then he was beloved.

[nyjunc]

Holy shit bro!! Give it a damn rest! So because ARod was coming back from the flu, we lost? It had nothing to do with Aaron Small, who needs to be sent to Columbus?


Did I say it was ARod's fault? I pointed that out simply b/c people have said we can't win w/o him and here we were winning w/o him and scoring alot runs. you guy act like we never made the playoffs before we got him and that we wouldn't make it again if we didn't have him. The facts are the man has not done his job here. i posted the link to the article below last week but none of you ARod lovers commented on it, why is that?

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[EcKo151]

people forgte really quick, remember how tino was bashed around here until he hit that HR in the '98 WS then he was beloved.
You don't have to hit it in the post-season to win the fans...

Giambi wasn't liked at all until he hit that walk-off grand slam in the stadium vs. the Twins being down 3...

To me, ARod earned his pinstripes when he didn't take shit from Bronson Arroyo and put Varitek in a headlock while punching him in the head...He's given an AL MVP, a very good fielder at 3rd base, just a great all-around player...Now, you're measured by championships as a Yankee and he hasn't delivered yet, and he knows that, he understands that, and that he needs a ring for Yankees fans to love him...I get that.

But YOU, take it to a champ-esque level with this guy...As if ARod was giving autographs at the stadium, you were next but then he had to go, and since then you've hated him...That's my guess.

[nyjunc]

Giambi wasn't liked at all until he hit that walk-off grand slam in the stadium vs. the Twins being down 3...


That was TEMPRORARY just as ARod's 3 HR game was last year. The fans hated Giambi until he tore it up last year and that was WITH the 2 HRs in Game 7 off pedro.

To me, ARod earned his pinstripes when he didn't take shit from Bronson Arroyo and put Varitek in a headlock while punching him in the head...

That could be argued it was the turning point of the Sox season as they were floundering and then that got them going.

He's given an AL MVP, a very good fielder at 3rd base, just a great all-around player...Now, you're measured by championships as a Yankee and he hasn't delivered yet, and he knows that, he understands that, and that he needs a ring for Yankees fans to love him...I get that.


He does not need a ring for me to get off his back, he needs to produce in postseason. Every loss is not his fault but I want to see him come through when we need him most, if it's good enough to win it all then great if not i can live w/ it. Mattingly is revered and never came close to a Championship.

But YOU, take it to a champ-esque level with this guy...As if ARod was giving autographs at the stadium, you were next but then he had to go, and since then you've hated him...That's my guess.


I defended ARod his 1st yr, I agve him a pass on the Boston series but until he coms throuhg for us in October I cannot forgive his horrid '05 ALDS. it wasn't that he was just struggling he was atrocious, as bad as can be- he hurt us w/ the glove, w/ the bat and w/ his legs and was the main reason we lost.

[EcKo151]

That could be argued it was the turning point of the Sox season as they were floundering and then that got them going.
Regardless, ARod to me, earned his pinstripes right there...He understood the circumstances and didn't take anything from Bronson Arroyo, GOOD!

He does not need a ring for me to get off his back, he needs to produce in postseason. Every loss is not his fault but I want to see him come through when we need him most, if it's good enough to win it all then great if not i can live w/ it. Mattingly is revered and never came close to a Championship.
But don't you keep saying that since he's been here the Yanks haven't won a WS? He was brought here and he has yet to deliver a championship? But now it's all about him hitting in the post-season? Screw that man, I could care less if he hits .098 in the post-season as long as the Yanks win the WS...I don't care what individuals do, just win as a team.

[ButtleMan]

What was the Yankees record last year when Jeter missed a month with a broken hand????

[Crapshooter]

I am about winning and Jeter always gives my team the best chance to win.

How about my baseball example. What if we signed Gagne after his record setting season wher his #s were far and away better than Mo's. Should Mo have to be the set up man? of course not. Same type of deal w/ Jeter and ARod.

Man, I don't know where to begin with some of what's been said lately. I see you conveniently failed to comment on 3rd&15's response to this, but I agree with him 1000%.

How the heck can you put Gagne and Rivera in the same breath? This is comparing apples to oranges. Gagne has had 3 good years compared to 10 of Mo's and it's not like those three makes Mo look awful. Gagne's best season was 55, Mo's 53. That's "far and away better"? Rivera will go down as the best closer EVER to play the game and will have Tome Seaver like percentage votes into the HOF his first year eligible. Gagne would be lucky to get voted in by the Veteran's committee. If the Yankees got Gagne with Mo on the team, it's a no-brainer...Gagne is just a set up guy to Mo.

Same with A-Rod. You're trying to compare one the the two best players in the GAME to Jeter, maybe the 3rd, 4th best SS . In their primes, you'd take ARod, Nomar, and Tejada over Jeter any day at SS and move Jeter to 3rd. Jeter should be the guy to move to 2nd/3rd and not be at short just because of a couple of clutch hits. You put the best player at the position, not the sentimental favorite.

And you amaze me still wanting to kill A-Rod for that LAA series. Hey, I got news for you, the quintessential clutch hitter, Mr. October himself, Reggie Jackson had some of the WORST divisional series stats that I'd like to forget. I'm sure if you look it up Reggie did everything in the WS not the other playoffs.

[ButtleMan]

What was the Yankees record last year when Jeter missed a month with a broken hand????


Senior Moment. It was in 2003 when Jeter was injured on opening day against the Jays. He returned on May 13th. The Yankees record while Jeter was out of the lineup....25-11 and this was with Erick Almonte and Enrique Wilson filling in.
Seems to me the Yankees didnt fall into a tailspin without Jeter.
Yankees did end up with 101 wins that year so wouldnt you expect the Yankees record to be worse with Jeter out?

[nyjunc]

But don't you keep saying that since he's been here the Yanks haven't won a WS? He was brought here and he has yet to deliver a championship? But now it's all about him hitting in the post-season? Screw that man, I could care less if he hits .098 in the post-season as long as the Yanks win the WS...I don't care what individuals do, just win as a team.


obviously i'd rather have him suck and the yanks win the WS BUT I don't think we can win it at this point unless he plays like an MVP in the postseason.

How the heck can you put Gagne and Rivera in the same breath? This is comparing apples to oranges. Gagne has had 3 good years compared to 10 of Mo's and it's not like those three makes Mo look awful. Gagne's best season was 55, Mo's 53.

it's not that hard to figure out, I said at gagne's peak and at his peak his #s were BETTER than Mariano's. I'm not syaing he's better but his #s were which is similar to ARod and Jeter, ARod's #s are better but I'd take Jeter every time.

And you amaze me still wanting to kill A-Rod for that LAA series. Hey, I got news for you, the quintessential clutch hitter, Mr. October himself, Reggie Jackson had some of the WORST divisional series stats that I'd like to forget. I'm sure if you look it up Reggie did everything in the WS not the other playoffs.

That's great but he also had a million great moments in october, so far ARod's claim to fame as a Yankee is he helped us beat the Twins but then fell on his face against Boston and LAA.

Yankees did end up with 101 wins that year so wouldnt you expect the Yankees record to be worse with Jeter out?


we were also missing Rivera for a large stretch, i think over the short term we can overcome any injuries but long term Jeter is more important than ARod and marinao is more important than anyone else.

[AMJets]

we were also missing Rivera for a large stretch, i think over the short term we can overcome any injuries but long term Jeter is more important than ARod and marinao is more important than anyone else.

Jeter's more important than A-Rod?

BTW:

Close and Late, 2004-2006:

Jeter: .249 / .352 / .392 (.744)
A-Rod: .276 / .392 / .553 (.945)

[AMJets]

Alex Rodriguez: May's Totally Un-Clutch Player of the Month (To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. erofthemonth&prov=st&type=lgns)

[nyjunc]

Jeter's more important than A-Rod?

BTW:

Close and Late, 2004-2006:

Jeter: .249 / .352 / .392 (.744)
A-Rod: .276 / .392 / .553 (.945)


Alex Rodriguez: May's Totally Un-Clutch Player of the Month (To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. erofthemonth&prov=st&type=lgns)


ZERO RBI against LAA- YES Jeter is more important and close/late this year it's not close. Once again you ignored the article I posted, POM is nice but it's all based on #s and most of those #s are meaningless fantasy #s as he's disappeared when we needed him most:

The #s below aren't updated and jeter has come through for us a few times in the last week(in the alst week alone I think he's come through more than ARod has all season).

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I like the nickname "May-Rod":rofl:

[ButtleMan]

Yankees won without Jeter last night. I guess he is not that important to the team.

[nyjunc]

Yankees won without Jeter last night. I guess he is not that important to the team.

They won w/o ARod too and he played.

[3rdAnd15Draw]

shouldn't you be praising a-rod for not producing in a blowout?

[nyjunc]

shouldn't you be praising a-rod for not producing in a blowout?

Actually he got his only hit when we were up 13-3.

[ButtleMan]

shouldn't you be praising a-rod for not producing in a blowout?


Gotta throw out that SB he had since they were up by 6 runs when he got it.

[nyjunc]

Gotta throw out that SB he had since they were up by 6 runs when he got it.

I forgot about that but 6 runs against the Sox isn't insurmountable for them so i'll give him a pass on that and say it could have been meaningful.

[BIG COUNTRY]

Actually he got his only hit when we were up 13-3.
If he struck out you would probably have been happier with him.

[AMJets]

It's amazing how a fan of a team can argue against one of his players so much. Quite pathetic. But hey man, that's your choice.

[MisterMoss]

Add another chapter to A-Rod's failures after tonight's game.

[nyjunc]

It's amazing how a fan of a team can argue against one of his players so much. Quite pathetic. But hey man, that's your choice.

But it's ok for you to bash our Mgr almost daily? blaming every loss on him and giving him no credit when we win. I get it:rofl:

[EcKo151]

Last night bashing ARod is perfectly justified...The bases loaded strikeout could of been a killer...0-4. He deserves his bashes, for last night.

[Mantana Soss]

Last night bashing ARod is perfectly justified...The bases loaded strikeout could of been a killer...0-4. He deserves his bashes, for last night.

He's .311 with RISP and 3/6 with the bases loaded, hardly worth booing.

[nyjunc]

He's .311 with RISP and 3/6 with the bases loaded, hardly worth booing.

What is he w/ RISP and 2 out? what is he in close games? what is he in close games in late game situations? Avg. w/ RISP alone can be misleading as he gets alot of hits in blowouts w/ RISP w/ no pressure. I just don't understand how Yankee fans can watch this guy daily and think he comes through for us.

[Mantana Soss]

What is he w/ RISP and 2 out?
.313

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[nyjunc]

.313

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That doesn't have late game, pressure situations.

the article below is from last week and his #s were bad in thsoe situations and have gotten worse since the article:

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[EcKo151]

He's .311 with RISP and 3/6 with the bases loaded, hardly worth booing.
Oh don't get me wrong, I like ARod alot, and always will...But last night was a huge spot to blast it open, or at least get a few insurance runs...But the strikeout was just a deflation, and it just had to be him. All the scrutiny he gets form fans/media is a bit overblown, but he could of shut up some last night with a hit, unfortunately he couldn't come through and that's why I say it's justifiable to bash him for LAST NIGHT...He couldn't come through.

[Mantana Soss]

That doesn't have late game, pressure situations.

Yes, I've seen a few of his choke jobs this season, but he could double into the gap the next 5 situations in a row, but the next time he gets an out or that double play, you're going to remember the last one and call him a choker.

I'm sure the excessive shit yankee fans are giving him really boost his big game morale too. I never understood the concept of overly booing / digging into hitters, as if they don't know what they're doing wrong?

[nyjunc]

Yes, I've seen a few of his choke jobs this season, but he could double into the gap the next 5 situations in a row, but the next time he gets an out or that double play, you're going to remember the last one and call him a choker.


IF he did come through 5 times in a row I'd get off his back, he had that one stretch a month ago where he came through 3 times in about a week and a half but nothing since then.

I'm sure the excessive shit yankee fans are giving him really boost his big game morale too. I never understood the concept of overly booing / digging into hitters, as if they don't know what they're doing wrong?

first off I don't boo players when I'm at games, I just feel silly. Secondly I am critiquing a players performance which is what fans do. I generally am not a basher of my team's players but I lose patience when a guy is supposed to be a top player in the game and he continus to fail in big spots for us. Every player comes throughnow and again so spare me "all the times he's come through for us" b/c it hasn't been nearly enough.

Truly great players don't pay attention to boos, guys who can perform under pressure don't worry about boos. I don't like booing either but Jeter's been booed and that was AFTER he won 4 titles so ARod should be able to suck it up and handle criticism. JHe can very easily shut all his critics up if he just comes through more often in big spots.