Official BS CALL!!! Thread - Merged

[Dinobot 2]

THAT WAS A GOD DAMN FORCE OUT!

ARE YOU KIDDING Me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Petrozza]

highway robbery

they didnt even review it.....

[Gubernaculum]

The Jets need to petition the NFL- his two feet were clearly in bounds when he was coming down

They didn't even LOOK at it. The fix was in for this game or something.

[JetsKickAss]

They give favorable spots by 2-3 yards to the Browns, then a clearly catcheable ball that our guy was falling FORWARD they say he would have suddenly changed and fallen SIDEWAYS out of bounds.

The Jets should investigate the personal finances of these refs. This was a joke.

No, I am not joking.

[The Notorious J.E.T.S]

maybe my eyes are wacked...maybe I'm bias...but how is it NOT obvious that his feet would have landed in bounds on that play? What the hell are the announcers watching?

Ridiculous.

[gustoonarmy]

1/2ft in bounds

[BIG COUNTRY]

The NFL should fine these cocky scumbags. Fuckin assholes think they were right, your wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go fuck yourselves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gustoonarmy]

That shot from our endzone clearly has him in by 1-2 ft. Whats the point of review if its not going to be used???

[JetsKickAss]

maybe my eyes are wacked...maybe I'm bias...but how is it NOT obvious that his feet would have landed in bounds on that play? What the hell are the announcers watching? idiculous.

The refs were compromised in this game, I'm telling ya.

[discostu570]

That was a TEXTBOOK example of a forceout. What happened at the end of this game was just unbelievable.

I want to see Eric Mangini get into his press conference and do some bitching about this one. When they take away his ability to throw a challenge inside two minutes, that puts the obligation on the refs to know when theyve got to review a play, and that ABSOLUTELY should have been reviewed.

[allan1]

This pretty much should be your wakeup call

TWICE today, one with the muffed punt. How could they CLEARLY see, the refs and the booth people, that that didn't touch him. give cleveland the benefit of the doubt

And the Bakr catch, a miraculous escape by Chad, a GREAT catch by baker. You could tell by his legs his momentum was NOT carrying him out of bounds. It was the hit and only the hit that pushed him out. The one ref even took time to make the signal, a second ref ran over to talk to him

how the fuck could they not even review it in the booth? Was that not close enough? How close do you have to get, it was NOT cut an dry. Mangini wisely even gave them extra time with the timeout and STILL NO RESPONSE.

this is home cooking in the browns booth. Baker could've caught that smack dab in the center of the endzone and been carried out of bounds, it still would've been ruled incomplete.

I want the refs and booth people investigated thoroughly, something doesn't smell right. Heads need to roll.

[boomer]

I wish I was in Cleveland right now. I think zebra hunting season just started.

[Gubernaculum]

The league should be ashamed

[abyzmul]

The entire current staf of referees should be terminated at the end of the season and they should start over with a new crew of full-timers that have been trained correctly and are capable of doing their jobs. The NFL has to stop being cheap with this.

[JetsKickAss]

This pretty much should be your wakeup call TWICE today, one with the muffed punt. How could they CLEARLY see, the refs and the booth people, that that didn't touch him. give cleveland the benefit of the doubt And the Bakr catch, a miraculous escape by Chad, a GREAT catch by baker. You could tell by his legs his momentum was NOT carrying him out of bounds. It was the hit and only the hit that pushed him out. The one ref even took time to make the signal, a second ref ran over to talk to him
how the fuck could they not even review it in the booth? Was that not close enough? How close do you have to get, it was NOT cut an dry. Mangini isely even gave them extra time with the timeout and STILL NO RESPONSE.this is home cooking in the browns booth. Baker could've caught that smack dab in the center of the endzone and been carried out of bounds, it still would've been ruled incomplete. I want the refs and booth people investigated thoroughly, something doesn't smell right. Heads need to roll.

I'm sure the NFL office told the refs that the Diversity Committee would look stupid and upset if Crennel got fired and that any close calls should go against the team coached by the Italian guy.

[Tight]

If that was the colts they would have called a td. Im not even joking. The refs stink.

This is unbelievable.

[ViLmAfAn5128]

YES THANK FUCKING YOU>.>>

My dad is a giants fan and this infuriated him.... I mean come on, his feet
were at least 2 feet in bounds and he got hit, and Gini called TO twice and they didnt challenge thats fucking bulshit i know a kid thats a browns fan, and if he says anything im gonna beat his fucking ass i swear to god, i swear,

[The Notorious J.E.T.S]

obviously the refs had reservations at some fancy restaurant and didn't want to be late.

[Jetsman5137]

FUCK THAT SHIT! throw us a fucking bone and at least look at the play. the nfl is fixed i tell you! they just want a team with shit history to win and start coming around. bullshit the nfl is a hoax!

[UKJetFan]

What an empty way to finish a game, by the Refs just deciding to end the game there and not follow the rules. I've seen this too many times in other games, the refs deciding not to review calls in the last 2 minutes.

[BIG COUNTRY]

If this was in our stadium Id be throwing shit on the field, fuckin bullshit.

[JetsIn2004]

highway robbery

they didnt even review it.....
It's not a reviewable play.

However, you guys KNOW I'm not one to bitch about the refs. I did not think that game had many BAD calls in it, BUT, that call was awful. He would have been in by 2 friggen FEET.

[PleaseWinSuperBowlJets]

THERE IS NO WAY WE SHOULD HAVE LOST TO THE

CLEVELAND BROWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No excuse to let the browns beat us!:mad:

[Barry the Baptist]

A forceout can't be reviewed, it is absolute bullshit but that's the way it is..... if the NFL wasn't disgraced with the joke of an officiating job that almost cost the Steelers a chance at the SB and DID cost the Seahawks the SB do you think they give a shit about the 4-4 Jets vs. the 5-2 Browns? It aint any sweat off Mike Perrara's balls......

[BonScott]

Baker was truckin down the sideline and one handed the ball, how could he not land in the endzone?

[TheBlairThomasFumble]

Why isn't that a reviewable play?!

TBTF

[bigalxc]

why is it not reviewable

[PRPitbull]

and then you got the announcer Solomon Wilcots saying that hes not sure Baker wouldve come down in bounds. Are u serious? He got like 4 different looks and it clearly shows the Browns defender redirecting Baker 4 feet out of bounds. He clearly wouldve came down in bounds. I cant believe they didnt review it

[plasticsloth]

i cannot believe this. The worst call i've ever seen. Even if you CANT challenge it, the initial judgement should have been a catch. He definately had possesion. I mean you turn an unbelievable play into a bullshit call. With that situation, you cant put the game literally in the refs hands cuz they are complete morons. Is it just me or does this kinda thing happen every week to the jets?

[JetsIn2004]

What an empty way to finish a game, by the Refs just deciding to end the game there and not follow the rules. I've seen this too many times in other games, the refs deciding not to review calls in the last 2 minutes.
Being pushed out is a judgement call and is NOT reviewable.

[Gubernaculum]

I hope Mangini mentions this travesty

[nptlax31]

im furious, this call just ruined my day

[allan1]

I'm sure the NFL office told the refs that the Diversity Committee would look stupid and upset if Crennel got fired and that any close calls should go against the team coached by the Italian guy.

yep, gotta keep romeo afloat in Cleveland...for now at least. I don't know how the NFL will react once Crennel, Green, and Shell are all axed in one offseason and replaced by white coaches.

[GreenScreen313]

the fact that the Jets wouldn't justify this call as QUESTIONABLE is utterly ridiculous..why was this not reviewable?

[Tight]

I said it once and Ill say it again.

If it was the colts, ,patriots, steelers in that situation. They would have made the correct call.

These refs should be fined. They should have thier salary taken away and given to chris baker.

Piece of sh** refs.

[Gubernaculum]

Being pushed out is a judgement call and is NOT reviewable.

True- but I'm more pissed that the ref was standing TWO FEET AWAY and blew the call. All the replays made it obvious that he was going to land in bounds.

[hendersg]

nonsense, stop it

[Barry the Baptist]

If that was Peyton Manning to Marvin Harrison I guaruntee yo that is a TD!!!

[MarionBarber31]

Fucking brutal...just fucking Brutal!

[abyzmul]

Why isn't that a reviewable play?!

TBTF
It's a judgment call, you can't prove conclusively on film where someone MIGHT come down. Film is for things that happen, not for things that could happen.

[Tight]

If that was Peyton Manning to Marvin Harrison I guaruntee yo that is a TD!!!

The ref would have signaled a td as soon as harrisons fingers touched the ball. For those sayin that this is bs, trust me its no joke. Im dead serious.

[Gubernaculum]

This is bullshit- what an atrocious call

If this is Brady to Gabriel, they call it a TD

[JetsKickAss]

They made 3 critical errors:

(1)They failed to realize (or ignored, to make their theft more understandable) that Baker was running STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDELINE. This was not one of those pass plays into the end zone where the reciever is going acrorss the end zone and has to tip-toe or drag his feet inbound. Baker was running 2 feet inside the line -- it wasn't even close.

(2) If you are running INSIDE THE LINE and going STRAIGHT (see 1 above) then if you suddenly end up 4 feet outside the line and 2 guys with different jerseys are ontop of you, it stands to reason they KNOCKED YOU OUT. This is called BASIC PHYSICS -- an object going in a straight line does not suddenly change direction and go in the opposite/adjacent line of movement.

(3) The call should have been "TOUCHDOWN." Instead, they ruled it no-touchdown and then decided AGAINST reviewing it. If you called it correctly (no-touchdown), then reviewing it changes nothing. Only if you got it wrong does a review matter. By not reviewing, you staked your jobs -- as far as I'm concerned -- on getting it right.

The refs made 3 errors on the play. The first 2 errors are understandable; but the reason you review the play is to make sure that the first 2 errors were in fact errors.

Let's contact the NFL office and make it clear that these refs stole the game and are not fit for NFL referreeing. Goodell cannot allow incompetent refs to make errors and then cover them up.

This is not about making an error. This is about making an error and then deliberately choosing not to verify if one made a critical mistake in the closing seconds of a game. The refs gambled with the Jets fortunes; now they have to pay with their jobs. End of story.

[abyzmul]

The ref would have signaled a td as soon as harrisons fingers touched the ball. For those sayin that this is bs, trust me its no joke. Im dead serious.
The ref would have signalled a TD as soon as they broke the huddle. Oh wait, they don't huddle.

[LoyalJetsFan]

One of the worst jobs at officiating I have EVER seen. That was a ridiculous call, and cost us dearly...those refs need to be let go by the league.

[Pride]

Chad made one of the greatest plays in Jets history. 4th and 4, eluding a blitzing safety off balance putting a pass which was one handed by Baker. FUCK Solomon Walcotts, FUCK the referees.

[allan1]

Manning to Harrison/Clark/Wayne.....TD

Manning to Shockey/Burress.....TD

Roethlisberger to Ward.....TD


Pennington to Baker.....

"Haha, fuck you Jets"

sincerely, the National Football League, treating the Jets like third class citizens since 1969

[UKJetFan]

Being pushed out is a judgement call and is NOT reviewable.

This rule just blows my mind.

[Tight]

The ref would have signalled a TD as soon as they broke the huddle. Oh wait, they don't huddle.

ahahahahaha.

[Dinobot 2]

Somthing must be done about this!

[Vilmathegreat51]

Bullshit!!!!!I can't belive this shit.

[S.Kolber set Joe up!]

Same old bullshit. You cant review bad judgment. What a joke. It doesnt get any worse.

[tlef316]

god awful call on the field. the funny thing is, if it had been called no TD because of ball controll, it could have been reviewed.

and like others said, if its manning to harrison, thats a TD,a free 2 pt conversion, and a hand job from the back judge

[abyzmul]

Someone light the torches!!!

[Gubernaculum]

They made 3 critical errors:

(1)They failed to realize (or ignored, to make their theft more understandable) that Baker was running STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDELINE. This was not one of those pass plays into the end zone where the reciever is going acrorss the end zone and has to tip-toe or drag his feet inbound. Baker was running 2 feet inside the line -- it wasn't even close.

(2) If you are running INSIDE THE LINE and going STRAIGHT (see 1 above) then if you suddenly end up 4 feet outside the line and 2 guys with different jerseys are ontop of you, it stands to reason they KNOCKED YOU OUT. This is called BASIC PHYSICS -- an object going in a straight line does not suddenly change direction and go in the opposite/adjacent line of movement.

(3) The call should have been "TOUCHDOWN." Instead, they ruled it no-touchdown and then decided AGAINST reviewing it. If you called it correctly (no-touchdown), then reviewing it changes nothing. Only if you got it wrong does a review matter. By not reviewing, you staked your jobs -- as far as I'm concerned -- on getting it right.

The refs made 3 errors on the play. The first 2 errors are understandable; but the reason you review the play is to make sure that the first 2 errors were in fact errors.

Let's contact the NFL office and make it clear that these refs stole the game and are not fit for NFL referreeing. Goodell cannot allow incompetent refs to make errors and then cover them up.

This is not about making an error. This is about making an error and then deliberately choosing not to verify if one made a critical mistake in the closing seconds of a game. The refs gambled with the Jets fortunes; now they have to pay with their jobs. End of story.


Point #3 is huge- atleast with a TD call, it can be changed. I did not see any reason for that ref to feel that the incomplete call was the correct call anyway.

Good post

[Brooks Brady]

Thanks for probably making us sit at home in January, Mike Carey and your crew.

[vinsjets]

good teams shouldnt be in the position to have the game taken away by officials. thats the bottom line. We didnt deserve to win the game, they kept giving us chances, and we kept blowing them. End of story. People, you gotta wake up, we arent that good. We arent that bad either...but we arent that good...In a few weeks we'll be 4-6 and no one will remember who we are.

[statjeff22]

It's not a reviewable play.

However, you guys KNOW I'm not one to bitch about the refs. I did not think that game had many BAD calls in it, BUT, that call was awful. He would have been in by 2 friggen FEET.

I was wondering when someone would say this. I was also calling for a review in the game thread, but I was mistaken - the force out is NOT a reviewable call. Once it was made on the field, that was the end of it.

Of course, I (like everyone else) thinks that Baker would have clearly landed inbounds, but you can't blame the review assistant (the guy who decides to review things in the last 2 minutes) for this.

[The Mak]

Chris Baker on the radio, he said the Side judge came running up the sideline saying it was a force out before the ref conference.

[Gubernaculum]

Oh man, if we miss the playoffs by 1/2 game, people are gonna be PISSED

[vinsjets]

Thanks for probably making us sit at home in January, Mike Carey and your crew.
We'd be home anyway. We aren't far from being play off contenders, but this wasnt our year anyway. get your head out of the clouds man.

[MarkyMark]

check out this these 2 pictures on jetinsider..clearly was in bounds and was in a straight line

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[Tight]

Dino mark my words

Nothing will happen.

Absoloutley nada, zip, zilch. squat. blank.

If you f*** up that bad in any other job your canned.

Thats the equivalent to a garbage man going on his daily routes and driving pass every frickin piece of trash, then parking the truck at the station and going home.

Do your Job refs, do your damn job.

[Royal Tee]

Chris Baker just said on the radio that 1 ref said Out, then the other ref with the better view down the line said force out yet they still went with the No Force out.

[Brooks Brady]

They should've at least called it a touchdown, and then they could've reviewed that. And then we have the guy on SNY now still saying that this is the "best officiating crew in the NFL." Unbelievable.

[Dinobot 2]

God pisses down on the Jets. And that's all there is to it.

[Jonathan_Vilma]

And the fucking host of the Post Game Live on SNY is trying to tell me they got that call right? It looked like Ray Lucas wanted to sock him.

[JetsKickAss]

I was wondering when someone would say this. I was also calling for a review in the game thread, but I was mistaken - the force out is NOT a reviewable call. Once it was made on the field, that was the end of it.

Exactly....HOW IS THE F****** REFS SAYING THE FORCE OUT SHOULDN'T BE REVIEWED WHEN BAKER WAS RUNNING STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDELINES??? IF I'M ONE OF THE REFS I WOULD SAY "HEY, CHRIS BAKER WAS RUNNING STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDELINE, NOT ACROSS THE END ZONE, SINCE HE ENDED UP 4 FEET OUT OF BOUNDS, DUHHH.......I THINK HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN PUSHED!!!"

[S.Kolber set Joe up!]

check out this these 2 pictures on jetinsider..clearly was in bounds and was in a straight line

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Wow thats a great view of it. Its even worse than I thought and I thought it was pretty fucking brutal.

[Gubernaculum]

They should've at least called it a touchdown, and then they could've reviewed that. And then we have the guy on SNY now still saying that this is the "best officiating crew in the NFL." Unbelievable.

Adam Schein can kiss my ass

[jetsaholic10]

fuckin bullshit

[Royal Tee]

They made 3 critical errors:
(3) The call should have been "TOUCHDOWN." Instead, they ruled it no-touchdown and then decided AGAINST reviewing it. If you called it correctly (no-touchdown), then reviewing it changes nothing. Only if you got it wrong does a review matter. By not reviewing, you staked your jobs -- as far as I'm concerned -- on getting it right.
Again, This is NOT a reviewable play.
NOT REVIEWABLE means , No review is allowed on the play.

[UncleTomNYJ]

What at a f***ing Travisty!!!!!! COme on This is the biggest shame of officiating on the jets i have seen all year!!! AND yes we have dealt with a few. (Horse collar & phantom roughing the passer calls) but COME ON Baker would have came down in bounds. AND TO NOT REVIEW IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my good god in heaven. What a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The NFL OWES the jets a victory not an apology!!!

[The Notorious J.E.T.S]

check out this these 2 pictures on jetinsider..clearly was in bounds and was in a straight line

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wow.

the space between Baker and the line would rent for $1200 a month in Manhattan.

[statjeff22]

Exactly....HOW IS THE F****** REFS SAYING THE FORCE OUT SHOULDN'T BE REVIEWED WHEN BAKER WAS RUNNING STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDELINES??? IF I'M ONE OF THE REFS I WOULD SAY "HEY, CHRIS BAKER WAS RUNNING STRAIGHT DOWN THE SIDELINE, NOT ACROSS THE END ZONE, SINCE HE ENDED UP 4 FEET OUT OF BOUNDS, DUHHH.......I THINK HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN PUSHED!!!"

Not sure why you're shouting, but the point is that it wasn't up to the referees (or the replay assistant) to be deciding that a possible force out shouldn't be reviewed - a possible forceout can NEVER be reviewed, as it is a judgement call.

The mistake was them not calling it a forceout on the field, not them refusing a replay.

[Cakes]

Worst judgment call I've ever seen.

[UKJetFan]

check out this these 2 pictures on jetinsider..clearly was in bounds and was in a straight line

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Greats pics, 100% proof it was a force-out.

[Tight]

check out this these 2 pictures on jetinsider..clearly was in bounds and was in a straight line

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Now dont get me wrong, I know being a ref is not an easy job, but this was obvious. I knew it was good from the replay, this is ridiculous.

[statjeff22]

What at a f***ing Travisty!!!!!! COme on This is the biggest shame of officiating on the jets i have seen all year!!! AND yes we have dealt with a few. (Horse collar & phantom roughing the passer calls) but COME ON Baker would have came down in bounds. AND TO NOT REVIEW IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my good god in heaven. What a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The NFL OWES the jets a victory not an apology!!!

It's not a reviewable play. The mistake was not calling it a TD to begin with, not refusing to review it.

[twinjetfan]

Again, This is NOT a reviewable play.
NOT REVIEWABLE means , No review is allowed on the play.
I think that, if it was caught it could have been reviewed. You can't challenge incomplete passes for some reason.

[LoyalJetsFan]

Brady to: Ben Watson = TD
Troy Brown = TD
Corey Dillon = TD
Chad Jackson = stare at jumbotron, ponder, then TD

This is absolute shit.

[10nyjets87]

I hate when a team loses to the referees.

[LockDown24]

Seeing those pics really pissed me off. We were just robbed of a W and perhaps a shot at the playoffs.

[jetsaholic1094]

Dino mark my words

Nothing will happen.

Absoloutley nada, zip, zilch. squat. blank.

If you f*** up that bad in any other job your canned.

Thats the equivalent to a garbage man going on his daily routes and driving pass every frickin piece of trash, then parking the truck at the station and going home.

Do your Job refs, do your damn job.

Exactly. Not just for this game, and not just for the Jets, but there are horrible calls by refs practically every week. The refs have no motivation to do their job properly because they know there are no consequences for fucking up. If we are incompetant at our jobs, we get fired. If they can't do their job properly, they should be too. But it never happens.

[Tight]

the refs are looking at this play right now and going, o shi*, we f**cked up .

[allan1]

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he pretty much has possession here, if not he's a split second away from it. It's like he has 2 1/2 feet before he's out!

[EcKo151]

Look the Jets didn't deserve to win, they were OUTPLAYED...But that was utter bullshit!! And now RT posting what Baker said after the game, pathetic!!

But I counted AT LEAST 4 facemasks on the Jets that WERE NOT FREAKING CALLED!! A friend told me 5, but I counted 4...Either way, NOT 1 WAS CALLED...

Pure bullshit.

[vinsjets]

I think that, if it was caught it could have been reviewed. You can't challenge incomplete passes for some reason.
it cant be challenged because it was a judgment call twin....u cant challenge "what ifs"

[EcKo151]

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he pretty much has possession here, if not he's a split second away from it. It's like he has 2 1/2 feet before he's out!
Yeah, somebody tell me he wouldn't of gotten 2 feet in...

What a joke.

[S.Kolber set Joe up!]

I think that, if it was caught it could have been reviewed. You can't challenge incomplete passes for some reason.

If it was caught it could be challenged only whether or not he had possession of the ball. The feet would be a judgment call either way and unreviewable.

[statjeff22]

I think that, if it was caught it could have been reviewed. You can't challenge incomplete passes for some reason.

Yes you can. This is the list of reviewable calls:


The NFL replay system currently only covers the following situations:

Scoring plays
Pass complete/incomplete/intercepted
Runner/receiver out of bounds
Recovery of a loose ball in or out of bounds
Touching of a forward pass, either by an ineligible receiver or a defensive player
Quarterback pass or fumble
Illegal forward pass
Forward or backward pass
Runner ruled not down by contact
Forward progress in regard to a first down
Touching of a kick
Other plays involving placement of the football
Note that the spot of the ball may be challenged in certain cases.

Whether or not someone caught a pass is reviewable, but whether or not he would have landed inbounds if not hit is not.

[Chrebet86]

did anyone see if he bobbled it at all? i was so concentrated on being pissed about the force out and he looked like he had control, but i didnt pay that much attention to it.

i swear to god i am praying that he bobbled it, just so i can be sane for the next week.

...please just a little slip, anything....

[allan1]

Oh, and guess where the referee who made that call is from?

Ohio!

hmmmmm. Better get on this one Holmes!

[pisano24]

These are the type of calls that change the rules. Watch... you'll see next season. HORRIBLE CALL. BAAAAAAAAAD!!

[vinsjets]

These are the type of calls that change the rules. Watch... you'll see next season. HORRIBLE CALL. BAAAAAAAAAD!!
what rule exactly?

[Cakes]

They should've at least called it a touchdown, and then they could've reviewed that. And then we have the guy on SNY now still saying that this is the "best officiating crew in the NFL." Unbelievable.

I was never a big fan of the Mike Carey crew. Overrated.

[Gubernaculum]

did anyone see if he bobbled it at all? i was so concentrated on being pissed about the force out and he looked like he had control, but i didnt pay that much attention to it.

i swear to god i am praying that he bobbled it, just so i can be sane for the next week.

He reeled it in- he had it on his shoulder pads when he came down.

[jetman8094]

I think the refs were afriad of the browns fans because last time the refs changed a call that made the browns lose the fans threw everything they could throw at them.

[Kris 15]

At least one Browns fan thinks it was a TD as well.

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[Royal Tee]

There seems to be a Bunch of people asking why no review.

As many other posters have also responded.
It was a Judgement call and A Judgement call is NOT Reviewable.

Not Reviewable means that the Referee may not use replay to assist in his decision.
A Judgement call falls under the NOT REVIEWABLE Category.

Mods. Please Do not merge this but maybe Pin it so we can discuss it with some who still are a little confused on it.

A few posters think the Refs refused to review it. That isn't the case. They are not allowed to because it's a judgement call.

[Dinobot 2]

Screw Brown fans. Lucky punks.

[vinsjets]

Seeing those pics really pissed me off. We were just robbed of a W and perhaps a shot at the playoffs.
we were robbed of a chance at a W....

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Yeah it was all decided on the original call.

I have to admit that I think the calls in a few games have been highly questionable, however the up side is that the Jets are 4-4 without getting a lot of calls.

[allan1]

Games like this are made for Joe Benigno. I can't wait to hear him tomorrow, should be a classic. At least we a have a voice.

[soh_vet]

This Has Nothing To Do With Us Being A "good" Team
Nor Does It Have To Do With Our Poor Play Vs. The Browns.

Agreed With Everyone Who Thinks This Is A Bs Call.

What Pisses Me Off Is The A-hole Announcers On Ch.2 (cbs) Who Were In Complete Agreement With The Refs. Blind F'n Bastards!

[The Future]

Then why were the CBS announcers still sort of agreeing with Mangini for him going up to the umps and asking them why they wouldn't review it. You would think the announcers would say that they couldn't review it. At least I didn't hear them saying anything about that.

[Gubernaculum]

True RT but it was a freakin atrocious call that no ref should miss.

[wexy]

It should've had come down but that WAS a touchdown. He woud've gotten two feet down.
Bullshit call indeed.

[JDZ25]

Worst. Call. Ever.

[IIMeanDeanII]

good teams shouldnt be in the position to have the game taken away by officials. thats the bottom line. We didnt deserve to win the game, they kept giving us chances, and we kept blowing them. End of story. People, you gotta wake up, we arent that good. We arent that bad either...but we arent that good...In a few weeks we'll be 4-6 and no one will remember who we are.

That is the stupidest thing I have read yet. I have faith that we can beat every team we play. Why wouldn't you? The Raiders just beat the Steelers? The Browns just beat us.... Any team can be beat on any given Sunday. Get some damn faith, and trust that our CS will do what is best for the Jets to get us to the playoffs. Jesus...

[vinsjets]

Then why were the CBS announcers still sort of agreeing with Mangini for him going up to the umps and asking them why they wouldn't review it. You would think the announcers would say that they couldn't review it. At least I didn't hear them saying anything about that.
maybe not, but the guys on the radio, immediatly said it couldnt be challenged....im crushed.

[The Notorious J.E.T.S]

don't you hate it when WE the fans are upset about something that we ALL think is bullsh*t yet the media and the players completely disregard it or ignore it? They're barely even talking about this awful call, basically saying that we are all dillusional.

[PleaseWinSuperBowlJets]

I still can't believe the refs blew the call!

[rickjet]

...what bothers me is that if 2 officials have differant calls, then they should huddle and make the RIGHT decision, it was so obvious that he would have come down in...why was the official with the "poor angle" not over-ruled?????????????

[Royal Tee]

There seems to be a Bunch of people asking why no review.

As many other posters have also responded.
It was a Judgement call and A Judgement call is NOT Reviewable.

Not Reviewable means that the Referee may not use replay to assist in his decision.
A Judgement call falls under the NOT REVIEWABLE Category.

Mods. Please Do not merge this but maybe Pin it so we can discuss it with some who still are a little confused on it.

A few posters think the Refs refused to review it. That isn't the case. They are not allowed to because it's a judgement call.

There was no reason to Merge this especially since there are many posters confused on it but I guess it's just one big merge fest right now...

[BadgerOnLSD]

Whether or not the play was reviewable does not change how furious I am that it was blatantly called wrong.

[IIMeanDeanII]

don't you hate it when WE the fans are upset about something that we ALL think is bullsh*t yet the media and the players completely disregard it or ignore it? They're barely even talking about this awful call, basically saying that we are all dillusional.

I have not heard anything at all about it. I doubt you will either, unless the Jets themselves moan and groan about it. Which is what I feel they should do...

[Chrebet86]

anybody, bobbled, maybe, im just never gonna look at the play again and convince myself he bobbled it

[JetFanInMiami]

Possibly the worst call i've ever seen (the jags game was close), Chris baker clearly caught the ball and clearly his whole body was going to land in the endzone. He and chad both made amazing plays. This could of been a great overtime game, but the ****in reffs just take it away from us and cost us not only the game, but possibly a playoff chance. That is about as blatant as a force out call can get.That reff called it incomplete just to bail himself out so he wouldn't have to make a call or not.

[wexy]

The issue isn't whether the Jets didn't deserve to win the game. Sometimes you lose a game you deserve and win one that you deserve to lose.

The Browns might have won in overtime and maybe they would've blocked the extra point but it was still a touchdown.

[rickjet]

....the ref that was out-of-bounds made the bad call, he had NO ANGLE on the play....the guy with the best angle should have imposed his call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Future]

Chris Baker just said on the radio that 1 ref said Out, then the other ref with the better view down the line said force out yet they still went with the No Force out.

Wow. Those damn umpires :sad:

[Cakes]

Hey Dino- Weis on 60 Minutes right now.

[10nyjets87]

vinsjets and royal T.. you two are horrible. how could you sit there and accept that crap from the refs.. saying oo that was a judgement call blah blah.. BULLSHIT.. Just because we played bad doesnt mean we didnt deserve that TD call and then be reviewed to see if it was incomplete. Its amazing to see you guys just sit their and be on the refs side.

[Chrebet86]

optimism: we have a clutch TE in chris baker...

[10nyjets87]

BTW alll realistic hopes of a playoffs berth have been thrown out the window because of the refs.. say what you want, but it is the truth. They should be fired!

[Dinobot 2]

Hey Dino- Weis on 60 Minutes right now.


And ?

[jetsaholic1094]

vinsjets and royal T.. you two are horrible. how could you sit there and accept that crap from the refs.. saying oo that was a judgement call blah blah.. BULLSHIT.. Just because we played bad doesnt mean we didnt deserve that TD call and then be reviewed to see if it was incomplete. Its amazing to see you guys just sit their and be on the refs side.

Ugh, how can you not comprehend that judgement calls are non-reviewable? They're not accepting the call, just explaining why it wasn't reviewed.

[Sundayjack]

Just to add insult to injury, Mike Pereira will show up Wednesday night on his weekly NFL Network bit, and hand out some bullshit like, "It's a judgment call, Rich. Could've gone either way."

[Dinobot 2]

optimism: we have a clutch TE in chris baker...


It's hard to be optimistic tonight.....

[vinsjets]

That is the stupidest thing I have read yet. I have faith that we can beat every team we play. Why wouldn't you? The Raiders just beat the Steelers? The Browns just beat us.... Any team can be beat on any given Sunday. Get some damn faith, and trust that our CS will do what is best for the Jets to get us to the playoffs. Jesus...
dont even question my faith jackass. The browns were previously 1-5, beating one shit team, and losing to 5 teams that could each easily be in the playoffs. The jets havent beaten a team with a winning record this year...The teams we have beaten have a combined 6-22 record. We havent shown we can hang with the big boys.

[ThunderbirdJet]

I have NEVER believed before today that Refs were fixable.... but look at the line going in.... look at the 4 PI calls that weren't made on the Browns before the Baker play, and then this outlandishly BOGUS call. Yes, there were FOUR PI penalties that were not called on the Browns. At least two were more than obvious. The other two could be called borderline IF the Jets DB's got that much leeway. They didn't. This game looked like a fix. Really.

[TheBlairThomasFumble]

After I watched the video and saw those pictures I threw up in my mouth and swallowed it back down. To lose like this is fucking awful.

He blew the call. End of story.

TBTF

[TheBlairThomasFumble]

I hate that cocksucker. And Eisen will just keep kissing his ass.

TBTF

Just to add insult to injury, Mike Pereira will show up Wednesday night on his weekly NFL Network bit, and hand out some bullshit like, "It's a judgment call, Rich. Could've gone either way."

[Cakes]

And ?

Sorry. Thought being a ND fan, you'd be interested. I guess not.

[vinsjets]

vinsjets and royal T.. you two are horrible. how could you sit there and accept that crap from the refs.. saying oo that was a judgement call blah blah.. BULLSHIT.. Just because we played bad doesnt mean we didnt deserve that TD call and then be reviewed to see if it was incomplete. Its amazing to see you guys just sit their and be on the refs side.
Woah now bro, im not on the refs side at all. fuck that shit. i think we got screwed just as much as u or anyone else. im just trying to explain that the play isnt reviewable.. it cant be reviewed. Just like you cant challenge a fumble if the refs blow it dead. It CAN NOT be challenged. I dont agree with it at all 10...

[Dinobot 2]

Sorry. Thought being a ND fan, you'd be interested. I guess not.


I'm too messed up right now....

[IIMeanDeanII]

dont even question my faith jackass. The browns were previously 1-5, beating one shit team, and losing to 5 teams that could each easily be in the playoffs. The jets havent beaten a team with a winning record this year...The teams we have beaten have a combined 6-22 record. We havent shown we can hang with the big boys.

So what? That means you have to automatically assume the worst? I will question your faith all I want. You want to sit there and post about how the refs calls were right, and we will for sure lose to The Patsies, and the Bears. Get outta here. Good teams lose to bad teams all the time. The Jaguars lost to the Texans last week, then this week they beat a highly good Eagles team. So save your BS for someone who is willing to buy into it. The Jets will be fine, and they will win some games. I still expect them (In a realistic sense) earn a wild card spot. You can say what you want, but I dont think I am the only one that questions your comments.


EDIT: I am not normally this hostile, and I am very frustrated. I might just be taken that out on you, I dont know, but I am very angry.

[Chrebet86]

refs need a paycut, they have it so easy now that they have no incentive to do a good job, just like regular ppl at regualr jobs, they have no pride anymore, f that. there collecting easy paychecks, why should they use there damn brains, and make the right call, nope the rules support the decision we made, and its the easiest one, so thats the call, nope no buts about it, nope....

its ok, i completely understand, i do the exact same thing at my job, i could help someone and do the right thing with a some hard work and effort, but no i ruin there day and just try to get rid of the customer as soon as possible.

me and the refs collect our paychecks whether the decision is right or not, but which is easier???

[Brooks Brady]

We'd be home anyway. We aren't far from being play off contenders, but this wasnt our year anyway. get your head out of the clouds man.
You're the one whose head is in the clouds if you think this team is far off rom being contenders this year. Maybe not Super Bowl contenders, but wouldn't you like to have a shot at it?

[penny10jet]

It was just said during the Chad interview that the line judge, in the discussion, thought it was a force out but was talked out of it by the guy on the other side of the field. Bull shit.

[vinsjets]

So what? That means you have to automatically assume the worst? I will question your faith all I want. You want to sit there and post about how the refs calls were right, and we will for sure lose to The Patsies, and the Bears. Get outta here. You little wanna be Jets fan.... Good teams lose to bad teams all the time. The Jaguars lost to the Texans last week, then this week they beat a highly good Eagles team. So save your BS for someone who is willing to buy into it. The Jets will be fine, and they will win some games. I still expect them (In a realistic sense) earn a wild card spot. You can say what you want, but I dont think I am the only one that questions your comments.
Are you some kind of tool? When did i once say i agreed with the call? And ive thought all season long we can realistically go 10-6. But 10-6 wont get us into the playoffs. jesus christ, dont put fucking words into my mouth. ive been here for 3 years, call me a wannabe jets fan all u fucking want. theres enough people on this board who would say opposite. I havent missed a jets game since im 8 years old, how the hell am i a wannabe?

[vinsjets]

You're the one whose head is in the clouds if you think this team is far off rom being contenders this year. Maybe not Super Bowl contenders, but wouldn't you like to have a shot at it?
man, i said we AREN'T FAR OFF, but we lost to Jax, and Indy...those to loses really kill playoff hope for wild card. if im wrong at the end of the season ill eat crow....and trust me..i hope im wrong, i dont hope my team loses.

[Chrebet86]

i cant get the word kill out of my head... is that bad?

[statjeff22]

Then why were the CBS announcers still sort of agreeing with Mangini for him going up to the umps and asking them why they wouldn't review it. You would think the announcers would say that they couldn't review it. At least I didn't hear them saying anything about that.

Because they didn't know the rule either.

[JetsIn2004]

I know we try to keep the forums neat, but we over merged here. yes, all the topics merged had something to do with the awful call, but the fact is, they all had their own little spin, or aspect of the call, and now all those discussions are ruined.

[The Future]

Now that I know that it couldn't have been reviewed after the 1st call was made, I still think this is fitting.

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[vinsjets]

Now that I know that it couldn't have been reviewed after the 1st call was made, I still think this is fitting.

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yes...the fucking refs screwed up on more then 1 occasion

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

To clarify some things:

1) If the receiver does not land in bounds because he was pushed out by a defender, it is not reviewable whether it is ruled a TD or an incomplete pass. It is a judgment call as to whether the receiver would have landed in bounds or not. Period. So the call on the field would have stood either way- TD or incomplete- and could not be reviewed.

2) The mistake was by the referees on the field not ruling it a TD. There was no mistake with regard to a replay review.

3) The rules in the NFL are so inconsistent it is maddening. If Baker were a running back and dove over the goal line in the same manner, the play would have been a TD because he would have "broken the plane ." Why should this play be any different????? It was crystal clear that Baker caught the ball, broke the pane, and was forced out of bounds. If this play is not a TD, then let's do away with all these plays where players reach the ball over the goal line and instead judge a TD by were the players' feet are when the ball crossed the goal line.

4) It is absurd to say that the Jets deserved to lose anyway. If the Jets were properly given the TD and then won in OT, the NFL would have counted the game as a win. There are no style points here. Did the NFL take Bears win over the Cards away? Did the Cards outplay the Bears? Yes, but the Bears made three miracle plays and won. That last Jet play was an incredible play, from Pennington evading the rush, to him putting it right on the money, to Baker's tremendous one-handed catch. What happened in the game before that moment is not relevant.

5) Those who had this game marked as a win and wondered why the Jets were 2 point dogs now know. The Jets are just not that good. And it starts with the Jets' horrible defense. 8-8 will be a good year. Playoffs???? Give me a break.


6)Even so, the Jets were completely screwed in this game. I expect that by Tuesday the Jets will get the standard "apology" from the NFL that the referee crew got the call wrong. "Sorry Jets. " You have to be a Manning to get calls like that.

[vinsjets]

To clarify some things:

1) If the receiver's does not land in bounds because he was pushed out by a defender, it is not reviewable whether it is ruled a TD or an incomplete pass. It is a judgment call as to whether the receiver would have landed in bounds or not. Period. So the call on the field would have stood either way- TD or incomplete- and could not be reviewed.

2) The mistake was by the referees on the field not ruling it a TD. There was no mistake with regard to a replay review.

3) The rules in the NFL are so inconsistent it is maddening. If Baker were a running back and dove over the goal line in the same manner, the play would have been a TD because he would have "broken the plane ." Why should this play be any different????? It was crystal clear that Baker caught the ball, broke the pane, and was forced out of bounds. If this play is not a TD, then let's do away with all these plays where players reach the ball over the goal line and instead judge a TD by were the players' feet are when the ball crossed the goal line.

4) It is absurd to say that the Jets deserved to lose anyway. If the Jets were properly given the TD and then won in OT, the NFL would have counted the game as a win. There are no style points here. Did the NFL take Bears win over the Cards away? Did the Cards outplay the Bears? Yes, but the Bears made three miracle plays and won. That last Jet play was an incredible play, from Pennington evading the rush, to him putting it right on the money, to Baker's tremendous one-handed catch. What happened in the game before that moment is not relevant.

5) Those who had this game marked as a win and wondered why the Jets were 2 point dogs now know. The Jets are just not that good. And it starts with the Jets' horrible defense. 8-8 will be a good year. Playoffs???? Give me a break.


6)Even so, the Jets were completely screwed in this game. I expect that by Tuesday the Jets will get the standard "apology" from the NFL that the referee crew got the call wrong. "Sorry Jets. " You have to be a Manning to get calls like that.

or a Brady...

good post:up:

[Cakes]

3) The rules in the NFL are so inconsistent it is maddening. If Baker were a running back and dove over the goal line in the same manner, the play would have been a TD because he would have "broken the plane ." Why should this play be any different????? It was crystal clear that Baker caught the ball, broke the pane, and was forced out of bounds. If this play is not a TD, then let's do away with all these plays where players reach the ball over the goal line and instead judge a TD by were the players' feet are when the ball crossed the goal line.

4) It is absurd to say that the Jets deserved to lose anyway. If the Jets were properly given the TD and then won in OT, the NFL would have counted the game as a win. There are no style points here. Did the NFL take Bears win over the Cards away? Did the Cards outplay the Bears? Yes, but the Bears made three miracle plays and won. That last Jet play was an incredible play, from Pennington evading the rush, to him putting it right on the money, to Baker's tremendous one-handed catch. What happened in the game before that moment is not relevant.


I agree with #3. I don't understand the inconsistency, either.

I wish the rule was that the player had to have his whole body in the end zone with possession of the ball*. You can't do that? Then no fuckin' touchdown.

*exception would be force outs

I agree with #4. It doesn't matter one iota whether the Jets "deserved" to win the game or not.

[nptlax31]

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[The Future]

I just don't understand why the officials initially couldn't call it a TD, and then review it. Instead they immediately said it was not a catch, not even a force out.

And you know what's a shame? On SNY Post Game Live, they interviewed Cotchery and he said how he ran down the sideline to ask the official what the call was and he said "Force Out" but an another official said Baker was "Out of Bounds" and the official that said force out just agreed with the out of bounds official.

[RobA]

I just got home, missed the final 2 min of the game. Had to watch the game live on my cell in a gamecenter type thing. It stalled at 4th and 4 forever then said turnover on downs. I was so pissed that we lost to the browns. But now, knowing that it ended on some total bullshit call, I'm am furious. What the hell happened?

[The Future]

I just got home, missed the final 2 min of the game. Had to watch the game live on my cell in a gamecenter type thing. It stalled at 4th and 4 forever then said turnover on downs. I was so pissed that we lost to the browns. But now, knowing that it ended on some total bullshit call, I'm am furious. What the hell happened?

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Just watch.

[BakerMaker]

I saw my boy Baker makes the crazy catch and the stupid refs decide he did not stay in bounds?

WHAT DID YOU WANT HIM TO DO, THE BROWNS DEFENDER NAILS HIM OUT OF BOUNDS BEFORE HE CAN GET HIS DAMN FEET IN BOUNDS. COME ON NOW YOU STUPID REFS.

[James Hasty]

This pretty much should be your wakeup call

TWICE today, one with the muffed punt. How could they CLEARLY see, the refs and the booth people, that that didn't touch him. give cleveland the benefit of the doubt

And the Bakr catch, a miraculous escape by Chad, a GREAT catch by baker. You could tell by his legs his momentum was NOT carrying him out of bounds. It was the hit and only the hit that pushed him out. The one ref even took time to make the signal, a second ref ran over to talk to him

how the fuck could they not even review it in the booth? Was that not close enough? How close do you have to get, it was NOT cut an dry. Mangini wisely even gave them extra time with the timeout and STILL NO RESPONSE.

this is home cooking in the browns booth. Baker could've caught that smack dab in the center of the endzone and been carried out of bounds, it still would've been ruled incomplete.

I want the refs and booth people investigated thoroughly, something doesn't smell right. Heads need to roll.

Don't forget that the Browns got their first TD on a pass interference call against Miller. I think the call was legit but it could have gone either way.

[boomer]

2 hours later and I"M STILL PISSED!!!!!!!!!!

[RobA]

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Just watch.
Are you fucking serious?! He was 3 ft in and then hit! Wow, the refs should be fined or something, this wouldn't have happened against any other team.

[BakerMaker]

Don't forget that the Browns got their first TD on a pass interference call against Miller. I think the call was legit but it could have gone either way.
I personally saw Leon Washington get face masked left and right throughout the game.

And Coles was getting harassed all day long by the rookie CB of Cleveland. The announcers even said there was plenty of pushing and shoving involved. Coles got the flag just once in one game.

[GreenHornet]

The league should be ashamed

That is 2 games now with horrible officiating. Against the Jags it didn't really matter, but that call today cost us a chance to play in overtime and possibly come out with a victory.

I thought it was a touch down, too. The refs didn't even review the call, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also thought Baker contolled the bal before he was pushed out, too.

We were robbed to the nth degree.

Boo Hiss on the NFL officiating. Just horrible.

[JetsKickAss]

It was just said during the Chad interview that the line judge, in the discussion, thought it was a force out but was talked out of it by the guy on the other side of the field. Bull shit.

Right, because the judgement of a guy 5 feet from the play should be overruled by someone 20 feet away from the play.

It's a JUDGEMENT call.......

[dwalsh]

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[BakerMaker]

Right, because the judgement of a guy 5 feet from the play should be overruled by someone 20 feet away from the play.

It's a JUDGEMENT call.......
Explain to me why the refs couldent have just called it a TD and THEN reviewed it, so neither team can complain about getting cheated.

Its not even Cle was going to lose if the TD occured.....it would go to OT and give both teams a fair chance to win the game.

[statjeff22]

Explain to me why the refs couldent have just called it a TD and THEN reviewed it, so neither team can complain about getting cheated.

Its not even Cle was going to lose if the TD occured.....it would go to OT and give both teams a fair chance to win the game.

If they had called it a TD it still wouldn't have been reviewable (and then the Browns would have been pissed). The review system is designed to correct questions of fact - confirm or refute what actually happened. In a force out play, the question is what would have happened, not what did happen. A replay can possibly resolve what DID happen, but it can never resolve what COULD HAVE happened, and that's why the play is not reviewable.

[BakerMaker]

Cleveland wouldent have been pissed....they would get a chance to win in OT then. If they cant win in OT, then they dont deserve it.

and they need to do away with this judgement shit because its clear to me that you cant leave it in the refs hands.

FACT is that Baker had caught it, didnt juggle the ball and WAS pushed out of bounds. And usually the word of the wise is you reward the reciever who makes the crazy catch rather than the defender...

[SadlyAJetsFan]

Didn't it say that scoring plays were reviewable? Is this or is this not a scoring play?

[Exit 117]

Cleveland wouldent have been pissed....they would get a chance to win in OT then. If they cant win in OT, then they dont deserve it.

and they need to do away with this judgement shit because its clear to me that you cant leave it in the refs hands.

FACT is that Baker had caught it, didnt juggle the ball and WAS pushed out of bounds. And usually the word of the wise is you reward the reciever who makes the crazy catch rather than the defender...
That's just biased.

[Exit 117]

Didn't it say that scoring plays were reviewable? Is this or is this not a scoring play?
It wasn't a scoring play because it was ruled incomplete. Even if it was a complete pass, only the point of whether or not he maintained possession could be challenged by the booth, not whether or not it was a force out.

[SadlyAJetsFan]

It wasn't a scoring play because it was ruled incomplete. Even if it was a complete pass, only the point of whether or not he maintained possession could be challenged by the booth, not whether or not it was a force out.
Ah alright by scoring play I thought it meant possible scoring place. Then yeah I understand why they didn't review it. I mean obviously it was still the wrong call on the field.

[ViLMaNiaC51]

I mean how many times have the Jets won or got helped out largely from a BS Call. Everything can't go their way, its the way of the game. It shouldn't have come to a desperation TD as it is, I'm ready to move on, anybody else?

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

Guys - its not that hard. Here is the rule again. Let's stop talking about why the play wasn't reviewed and start talking about the mistake made on the field by the referees in not ruling that the play was a TD>

If the receiver does not land in bounds because he was pushed out by a defender, it is not reviewable whether it is ruled a TD or an incomplete pass. It is a judgment call as to whether the receiver would have landed in bounds or not. Period. So the call on the field would have stood either way- TD or incomplete- and could not be reviewed.

The mistake was by the referees on the field not ruling it a TD. There was no mistake with regard to a replay review.

[The Future]

I whipped this up, making a sketch of what the crime scene looked like at Cleveland Brown Stadium after the game.

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*The man at the desk is supposed to be Eric Mangini*

[Gubernaculum]

Guys - its not that hard. Here is the rule again. Let's stop talking about why the play wasn't reviewed and start talking about the mistake made on the field by the referees in not ruling that the play was a TD>

If the receiver does not land in bounds because he was pushed out by a defender, it is not reviewable whether it is ruled a TD or an incomplete pass. It is a judgment call as to whether the receiver would have landed in bounds or not. Period. So the call on the field would have stood either way- TD or incomplete- and could not be reviewed.

The mistake was by the referees on the field not ruling it a TD. There was no mistake with regard to a replay review.

Exactly- the fault is of the idiotic line judge who missed the calls. The replay officials were not at all to blame. That line judge who screwed up, on the other hand, deserves a HELL of a lot of blame.

[nyscene911]

I just got back from hockey, and just saw the play. What absolute total bullshit. His one foot was done three feet in from the sideline! How, how how how how can you say that he clearly wouldn't have come down out of bounds?

Also, I don't understand why this wouldn't be a reviewable call. You can review a place on a ball, which is judgement. I wouldn't be surprised to see this become reviewable in the future. I'm just kinda pissed at this. The Jets deserved that TD. Even if they lost in OT, or missed going for 2 I woulnd't be this upset. But that was just a terrible call. Terrible. And, of course, nothing can be done about it.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

I mean how many times have the Jets won or got helped out largely from a BS Call. Everything can't go their way, its the way of the game. It shouldn't have come to a desperation TD as it is, I'm ready to move on, anybody else?
Besides the Phantom TD game against Seattle in '98, I can't think of any other games where the Jets won a game because of a bad call. Can you name them for me? Nobody on this board wants everything to go the Jets' way, but we do want some things to go their way, especially when they make a play that was clearly the tying TD.

[Royal Tee]

Right, because the judgement of a guy 5 feet from the play should be overruled by someone 20 feet away from the play.

It's a JUDGEMENT call.......
It's not the Distance , it's the Angle.
The Guy 20 ft away is looking down the sideline and saw what we did, that Baker was 3-4 ft In bounds.
The Guy on the Spot was blocked out and did not have the angle.

Just like a Check swing in baseball. The Ump on 1st gets the call.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

I just got back from hockey, and just saw the play. What absolute total bullshit. His one foot was done three feet in from the sideline! How, how how how how can you say that he clearly wouldn't have come down out of bounds?

Also, I don't understand why this wouldn't be a reviewable call. You can review a place on a ball, which is judgement. I wouldn't be surprised to see this become reviewable in the future. I'm just kinda pissed at this. The Jets deserved that TD. Even if they lost in OT, or missed going for 2 I woulnd't be this upset. But that was just a terrible call. Terrible. And, of course, nothing can be done about it.
Please read the posts above and you will understand why it was not reviewable.

[Royal Tee]

You can review a place on a ball, which is judgement. No it isn't. A ball spot review shows you EXACTLY where the ball was.
This call is a What if.....

This play is obvious and which is why we all agree it should be changed. But It's what is currently Not reviewable in the rule book

[krd145]

im pretty sure a force out cannot be reviewed. it is an opinion based call

[RLUCAS4137]

I have been soo extremely angry that I could'nt come on here until now.

I understand the rule that a judgement call cannot be reviewed based on it being subjective, but obviously this is a seriously flawed system because that was straight horseshit.

Even if it would have happened to the browns I would still think it was a bullshit call. Granted people might argue that we should of never been in that position because of how bad we played, but we could have and probably would have stole this game if the correct call was made.

PLAIN and SIMPLE the refs fucked up and it should at the very least be acknowledged by the NFL that the refs blew it. I really hope I don't lose it at work tommorrow

[allan1]

Besides the Phantom TD game against Seattle in '98, I can't think of any other games where the Jets won a game because of a bad call. Can you name them for me? Nobody on this board wants everything to go the Jets' way, but we do want some things to go their way, especially when they make a play that was clearly the tying TD.

I can't name any either, and the Seattle in 1998 game really doesn't count because we were in the playoffs anyway. Even if it was ruled correctly and Vinny didn't score, it wouldn't have crippled us.

nope, we never ever get these calls

[nyscene911]

Please read the posts above and you will understand why it was not reviewable.
I understand the rule that judgement calls are not reviewable. I just think its...bad judgement...on the league's part to make these types of plays un-reviewable.
Ehh, whatever....It just bugs me.

[Royal Tee]

I understand the rule that judgement calls are not reviewable. I just think its...bad judgement...on the league's part to make these types of plays un-reviewable.
Ehh, whatever....It just bugs me.
Everyone agrees with that part of it.

[nyscene911]

Everyone agrees with that part of it.
Well thats good :lol:

[BakerMaker]

That's just biased.
Tell me how thats biased please.

[BIG COUNTRY]

I understand the rule that judgement calls are not reviewable. I just think its...bad judgement...on the league's part to make these types of plays un-reviewable.
Ehh, whatever....It just bugs me.
Thats the way i feel, the both should be allowed to review that.

[The Future]

It's still mindbogiling how the umps couldn't just call it a TD, and then review it. That way, both teams had a fair shot at the call going in their favor. That is what still makes me pissed like I am.

[Royal Tee]

It's still mindbogiling how the umps couldn't just call it a TD, and then review it. That way, both teams had a fair shot at the call going in their favor. That is what still makes me pissed like I am.
Because Force out or No Force out, it's still a judgement call.
It isn't reviewable either way.

[The Future]

Because Force out or No Force out, it's still a judgement call.
It isn't reviewable either way.

Oh. I thought if they ruled it a TD, then they could review it.

[soh_vet]

Is this a reviewable call??

wakka wakka

[jaywayne12]

They should just do away with reviewing plays..PERIOD. If you cant review a play like that which determines who wins..and who loses...get rid of it.

Now..not only were we subjected to a bullshit call like that...no..thats not enough.

Tomorrow, the league will piss on us while we are tied to a tree....explaining that they defend the call..and that he made the right call.

3 times...3 damn times tonite in the cowboy game, receivers were pushed out of bounds with no feet in..and given the reception..EVERYTIME.

Any angle you look at it...he had plenty of room to come down in bounds..and since he caught the ball..touchdown..plain and simple.

[boomer]

Does anyone else find it odd that this loss came almost 4 years to the day after that BS loss to the Browns in 2002? Look what happened after that. Helllloooo?

[Barry the Baptist]

Just to add insult to injury, Mike Pereira will show up Wednesday night on his weekly NFL Network bit, and hand out some bullshit like, "It's a judgment call, Rich. Could've gone either way."

Like I said way back on page 1, it ain't no sweat off his balls. The officials single handidly almost handed a game to Indy in the playoffs last year. They then turn around and screw the Seahawks in the SB. Nothing has changed, nobody fired, nobody demoted. They make calls with reckless abandon with absolutely no fear of punishment. They have a green light to call whatever they want because there is no reprise or consecounse for screwing up. Until this changes you are gonna have piss poor referees.

As far as the BS of we shouldn't have been in that situation anyway. Answer me this... Should the Patriots have been in the game at Foxboro when the tuck rule was invented? The bottom line is we played bad but were in position to send the game into OT but a horrible officiating call ruined that. Nothing else mattered to that point because nobody remembers how you play only the final score. Qualifying for the playoffs doesn't have an admissions policy, just that you win enough games not how pretty you play or how nice your stats are. At the end of the day you can throw for 3 picks and fumble 4 times but if you score more points than the other team it's all that matters. Does any Bear fan care how many turnovers Grossman had during their win 2 weeks ago? No; all that matters is the final score.

[jaywayne12]

Like I said way back on page 1, it ain't no sweat off his balls. The officials single handidly almost handed a game to Indy in the playoffs last year. They then turn around and screw the Seahawks in the SB. Nothing has changed, nobody fired, nobody demoted. They make calls with reckless abandon with absolutely no fear of punishment. They have a green light to call whatever they want because there is no reprise or consecounse for screwing up. Until this changes you are gonna have piss poor referees.

As far as the BS of we shouldn't have been in that situation anyway. Answer me this... Should the Patriots have been in the game at Foxboro when the tuck rule was invented? The bottom line is we played bad but were in position to send the game into OT but a horrible officiating call ruined that. Nothing else mattered to that point because nobody remembers how you play only the final score. Qualifying for the playoffs doesn't have an admissions policy, just that you win enough games not how pretty you play or how nice your stats are. At the end of the day you can throw for 3 picks and fumble 4 times but if you score more points than the other team it's all that matters. Does any Bear fan care how many turnovers Grossman had during their win 2 weeks ago? No; all that matters is the final score.

Exactly..give me a break. We have plenty of threads discussing why the Jets sucked today...teams can suck and still win..every team has a couple of those a year..especailly a good team.

If you cant review that play..just get rid of the review. Get rid of it. Every damn play that is reviewed is because someone made a judgement call..bad or good.

The league needs to take the judgement call crap and stick it up their ass.

[TheBlairThomasFumble]

I'm not going to forget this one. I am so pissed.

TBTF

[Twombles]

Ohh fuck not again

[vinsjets]

Tell me how thats biased please.
Because NO team wants the game to go to OT.....

[ScotsJet]

Because NO team wants the game to go to OT.....
Pretty sure the Jets would've settled for it over a 20-13 loss though.

[statjeff22]

Exactly..give me a break. We have plenty of threads discussing why the Jets sucked today...teams can suck and still win..every team has a couple of those a year..especailly a good team.

If you cant review that play..just get rid of the review. Get rid of it. Every damn play that is reviewed is because someone made a judgement call..bad or good.

The league needs to take the judgement call crap and stick it up their ass.

I think the phrase "judgement call" is causing a whole lot of misinterpretation. The distinction here is that between a question of fact and a question of opinion. Whether someone landed inbounds or not is a question of fact - he either did or he didn't, and replay can (in theory) resolve the question. Whether someone would have landed inbounds if they hadn't been hit is not a question of fact, because it didn't happen - it's a question of opinion, and the league doesn't want the opinion of the replay official or head referee to be used to overrule the opinion of another official on the field. This is why penalties are not reviewable - they are not questions of fact, but rather of opinion.

I am all for replay, but I understand completely why plays like this are not reviewable, even when they decide the game.

[JetsVilma28]

YES THANK FUCKING YOU>.>>

My dad is a giants fan and this infuriated him.... I mean come on, his feet
were at least 2 feet in bounds and he got hit, and Gini called TO twice and they didnt challenge thats fucking bulshit i know a kid thats a browns fan, and if he says anything im gonna beat his fucking ass i swear to god, i swear,

hahahahaha.....this had me rolling:lol: :lol: you should just beat the kids ass anyway. hahaha:rofl2:

[jaywayne12]

I think the phrase "judgement call" is causing a whole lot of misinterpretation. The distinction here is that between a question of fact and a question of opinion. Whether someone landed inbounds or not is a question of fact - he either did or he didn't, and replay can (in theory) resolve the question. Whether someone would have landed inbounds if they hadn't been hit is not a question of fact, because it didn't happen - it's a question of opinion, and the league doesn't want the opinion of the replay official or head referee to be used to overrule the opinion of another official on the field. This is why penalties are not reviewable - they are not questions of fact, but rather of opinion.

I am all for replay, but I understand completely why plays like this are not reviewable, even when they decide the game.



Thats what I thought staff..until yesterday.

What exactly made that a judgement call..what if this happened in the middle of the end zone..and a db picked up Baker and carried him out of the end zone.

Lets say all the refs get together and amazingly claim that they have no idea for sure..that he would have ended up in the end zone..because his feet never did come down.

Where do you draw the line? 2 yards from the end zone? 5 yards? When does a judgement call not become a judgement call.

[Exit 117]

Thats what I thought staff..until yesterday.

What exactly made that a judgement call..what if this happened in the middle of the end zone..and a db picked up Baker and carried him out of the end zone.

Lets say all the refs get together and amazingly claim that they have no idea for sure..that he would have ended up in the end zone..because his feet never did come down.

Where do you draw the line? 2 yards from the end zone? 5 yards? When does a judgement call not become a judgement call.
It was a judgment call because of how close it was to the sidelines, and because it's a matter of "what if" rather than a misinterpretation or misexecution of the NFL rulebook. What you're talking about is a whole new situation.

[jaywayne12]

It was a judgment call because of how close it was to the sidelines, and because it's a matter of "what if" rather than a misinterpretation or misexecution of the NFL rulebook. What you're talking about is a whole new situation.

I know what you are saying..but thats my point..when does it become a judgement call.

Heres the bottom line..not in the last two minutes of games..not on final plays...but the NFL has to get games right..there are only 16 games. They have to take this absurd "judgement call" rule and at least get the last quarter right.

As far as misinterpretations...or misexecutions..come on. We have never seen a play not overruled even though, clearly, we see that the call was wrong.

The review has never been 100% accurate..which it would have to be if it was just misexecution..judgement does come in to reviews too.

[nyjunc]

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the really frustrating part is that we all know had the roles been reversed they would ahve called it a TD. That one ref came running over to make the proper call but he was apparently talkd out of it by the other ref who had the worse angle.

[jaywayne12]

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the really frustrating part is that we all know had the roles been reversed they would ahve called it a TD. That one ref came running over to make the proper call but he was apparently talkd out of it by the other ref who had the worse angle.

And today comes the total insult..today we have to here the league defend a policy that has no defense.

Today we will here how nobody for sure knows where Baker would have come down..and even if reviewed the same call would have been made.

Today the head honchos of the NFL will gather the wagons and come up with some classic lines.

Its like when your little kid gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Everything from make believe friends who "told him to do it" to "the sky was falling and I wanted one last meal".

Today the league will tell us to bend over one more time..for good luck.

[eyedea]

What kills me is how meny times in the past that same call has went against the jets .. fukin home town refs.

[JetPulse]

Goes to show that the replay system still doesn't keep the games from being decided by people with bad positions for very fast actions.
In the Oregon/Oklahoma game the officials got suspended for a game.
A poor resolution for the effects of bad calls.
The problem is that the last word is still on the field for many things.
The discussion regarding the force out should have included the replay booth.
The replay booth should be able to review any call.
It wouldn't slow down the game because even guys in the booth would feel the pressure to "continue the game".
Need a change to the replay system.
The tie in with time outs is bad because it places unfair pressure at the worst time. The coach's request should be allowed or disallowed on the field immediately with quick request for possible problems to the booth and officials on the field. -ie. the official sees the coach's challenge, requests close call yay/nay from the booth, and holds up hand. Looks to see if any other official is holding up their hand and listens for the booth yay/nay. The booth can only use gametime video for the decision. And, if no other official is holding up their hand the game continues. As long as the hand is up the clock stops.

The NFL can do better.

[ChrisPokorny]

Hey guys, I'm a Browns fan here. I'll take the call, but in my opinion, the Jets were definitely screwed. I run a Browns blog here: To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and posted four still shots from the game of why the Jets got screwed, including the one people aren't mentioning too much: Pennington was hit in the helmet twice on the play by Browns defenders, which could've warranted a 15-yard penalty.

[Exit 117]

Hey guys, I'm a Browns fan here. I'll take the call, but in my opinion, the Jets were definitely screwed. I run a Browns blog here: To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and posted four still shots from the game of why the Jets got screwed, including the one people aren't mentioning too much: Pennington was hit in the helmet twice on the play by Browns defenders, which could've warranted a 15-yard penalty.
All that does is give Jets fans more crap to whine about.

Personally, I would have hated it if the pass was actually incomplete, i.e. via a drop by Baker, and the penalty(s) were called on the Browns because just like Barton vs SD in the playoffs, if the unnecessary roughness action does not effect the outcome of the play, it should not be called late in a game.

[statjeff22]

All that does is give Jets fans more crap to whine about.

Personally, I would have hated it if the pass was actually incomplete, i.e. via a drop by Baker, and the penalty(s) were called on the Browns because just like Barton vs SD in the playoffs, if the unnecessary roughness action does not effect the outcome of the play, it should not be called late in a game.

The first time would have been a ridiculous call (when Chad ducked and the guy's foot touched his helmet as he went by), but the second one certainly has been called in the past. Clearly they didn't affect the play at all, as you said.

The first picture on that blog is even more damning for the official than others I've seen. Unless gravity has suddenly stopped working, it is blindingly obvious that Baker would have HAD to land inbounds - he's not even 6 inches off the ground at that point, and he's at least a yard from the sideline.

[nyjunc]

Hey guys, I'm a Browns fan here. I'll take the call, but in my opinion, the Jets were definitely screwed. I run a Browns blog here: To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. and posted four still shots from the game of why the Jets got screwed, including the one people aren't mentioning too much: Pennington was hit in the helmet twice on the play by Browns defenders, which could've warranted a 15-yard penalty.

I don't think they'd ever call a penalty or a hit like that on the QB on th final play- oh wait they would...

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...as long as it's AGAINST the Jets.

[Gator]

That ref (# 82) should be fired, just like those guys in college. He clearly has no angle to make that particular call. If another ref who has the angle comes running in and says forceout, #82 HAS to defer to the other guy. Why wouldn't he if he has no angle? Does he WANT to look like a jerk, or are there other factors involved? Maybe it was very important to him that the Browns cover. Well, they covered, now fire this guy as a message to other officials who don't defer when they don't have the call. The cameras don't lie.

What's frustrating is HOW far inbounds he would have landed. I mean, it wasn't even close to the sidelines by NFL standards. An inch is close. This was 1-2 feet. What a joke.

We once did get the call of a lifetime that instituted instant replay (along with the Buffalo/New England game the same year), which was the Vinny sneak against Seattle where he never got in. This time it went against us.

[nyjunc]

That ref (# 82) should be fired, just like those guys in college. He clearly has no angle to make that particular call. If another ref who has the angle comes running in and says forceout, #82 HAS to defer to the other guy. Why wouldn't he if he has no angle? Does he WANT to look like a jerk, or are there other factors involved? Maybe it was very important to him that the Browns cover. Well, they covered, now fire this guy as a message to other officials who don't defer when they don't have the call. The cameras don't lie.

What's frustrating is HOW far inbounds he would have landed. I mean, it wasn't even close to the sidelines by NFL standards. An inch is close. This was 1-2 feet. What a joke.

We once did get the call of a lifetime that instituted instant replay (along with the Buffalo/New England game the same year), which was the Vinny sneak against Seattle where he never got in. This time it went against us.

The TWO plays before that Vinny sneak Keyshahwn caught a ball in bounds and was pushed out, at least 1 of thm he would ahve been able to come down in bounds so the Vinyn call was justice for the pevious missed call and while we did get away w/ one w/ the Vinny sneak we have a million more that went against us costing us in big games and sometimes playoff spots.

[kbgreen]

Chris,

Thanks for the post! Very objective of you actually!

Like nornal the NFL will just gather the wagons on this one and we will just have to deal with it.

The only problem I have with the hits on Chad is that we got hosed a few weeks ago (Jags) with two ruffing the passer penalties that were clean hits. The hits on Chad were by definition penalties but I feel the rule is way to strict.

[nyscene911]

Just one asisde...kinda. For everyone who said that the Jets didn't deserve to win the game...why did the Browns deserve to win? They weren't all that great. They stopped playing in the fourth quarter, and let the Jets back in it. Thats why I hate the "well we didn't deserve to win" copout. Neither did the Browns. the play to Baker should've determined who won. Not whether or not someone feels that we "deserved" to.

[nyjunc]

Just one asisde...kinda. For everyone who said that the Jets didn't deserve to win the game...why did the Browns deserve to win? They weren't all that great. They stopped playing in the fourth quarter, and let the Jets back in it. Thats why I hate the "well we didn't deserve to win" copout. Neither did the Browns. the play to Baker should've determined who won. Not whether or not someone feels that we "deserved" to.

I hate that too, the bottom line is if the proper calls are made we are 20-20 in OT and riding a wave of momentum giving us an excellent shot to win.

[boomer]

I don't think they'd ever call a penalty or a hit like that on the QB on th final play- oh wait they would...

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...as long as it's AGAINST the Jets.
If that was Richard Seymore on Chad Pennington, no flag would be thrown.

[nyjunc]

If that was Richard Seymore on Chad Pennington, no flag would be thrown.

The Browns fan showed Chad getting hit in the head on that final play w/ no call:

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[Barry the Baptist]

The Browns fan showed Chad getting hit in the head on that final play w/ no call:

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It looks like Wimberly's forearm is slamming into Chad's head. Where the hell was that no flag when Gasteneau blasted Kosar's pathetic ass to the ground 20 years ago?

The bottom line is there is no punishment for the official that makes a bad call. Why should they ever worry about making a bad call? There is no recourse if they screw up. What do they have to fear? The thing that really gets me fuming is that the ref with the best vantage point ruled him being pushed out and some 70 year old big eared bastard overruled him.

[Nesquik]

Nfl replay needs to be like college any play should reviewable, judgement calls are stupid and just allows for errors to be made.

[boomer]

Hahaha, this whole thing reminds me of the scene from the movie Saving Silverman, with the Coach. During the game the reciever caught a pass in the end zone that appeared to be a TD. Coach raised his arms up and yelled "TOUCHDOWN!" Then the ref waves his arms and goes, "No touchdown, no touchdown. He was out of bounce!" Then Coach takes the measuring stick from the sideline and hurls it at the ref like a javelon. He then goes, "whoops." Then all you see is the ref laying on his back with the measuring stick stuck in his chest. :rofl: :rofl2:

I wish I could find a link to post or something, it was halarious.

[Dinobot 2]

God fucking hates us!

[wildthing2022000]

WTF was that call, roughing the passer BS.

[nyjunc]

Then on 3rd down it was a delay of game AND a false start and no calls. this is complete BS, they are trying to steal ANOTHER game from us.

[bigalxc]

Ben Watson jumped on 3rd down and never was called

[DROB63Cmart28]

On the last play of the game when Ellis had the sack he was getting held like crazy but he still sacked brady. Those shitty refs couldnt save the gaytriots that time.

[Barry the Baptist]

Then on 3rd down it was a delay of game AND a false start and no calls. this is complete BS, they are trying to steal ANOTHER game from us.


Thanks junc.... I thought I was the only one that saw these 2 penalties on the same play, throw in the offensive int 2 plays before and we are in business.

[Coach K]

Hahaha, this whole thing reminds me of the scene from the movie Saving Silverman, with the Coach. During the game the reciever caught a pass in the end zone that appeared to be a TD. Coach raised his arms up and yelled "TOUCHDOWN!" Then the ref waves his arms and goes, "No touchdown, no touchdown. He was out of bounce!" Then Coach takes the measuring stick from the sideline and hurls it at the ref like a javelon. He then goes, "whoops." Then all you see is the ref laying on his back with the measuring stick stuck in his chest. :rofl: :rofl2:

I wish I could find a link to post or something, it was halarious.

thats was one of my fav parts too. couldnt find a pic of it though. but did find this lol


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